Tea Party Leader Exemplifies Hypocrisy at its Worst
Bill Moyers gives us a behind the scene expose of one of the Tea Party’s leaders, Dick Armey. Dick Armey retired from Congress a few years ago and went on to work with FreedomWorks which is one of the main movers and shakers behind the Tea Party Movement. Armey leads of life of wealth and privilege and says he gets paid lobbyist fees he describes as a ‘darn handsome piece of dough’ for his work.
Most of what Armey does is go around blasting every aspect of the proposed health care reform. He did the same thing to Hillary Clinton as you will see in the video. What Armey fails to tell the Tea Party protestors and the public is that he has a Cadillac health care planned subsidized by the government which means you and I pay for it.
Sit back and watch hypocrisy at its worst:
[Editor Note: Aside removed from post. it was an unsubstantiated rumor. I actually don't like those and it was snide. Correction also made in title. Substitute party for bag. Unintentional mistake.]
Well, first off, I would hope that people would ask Federal employees and retirees if they consider their health care to be “cadillac”. Especially since the reason for not giving catch up raises to Federal employees was that they had other benefits. HMMM, but wait, wasn’t that the same argument used by unions when they negotiated an exemption to the “cadillac tax”?
Why by the way, do you think Dick Armey deserves to go to jail instead of Scooter Libby? I didn’t see anything in the Bill Moyers piece that suggested that Dick Armey has done anything illegal? Did I miss something?
Sorry, Wolfie, but this thread is not up to your usual standards especially for a report that is a year old. So he held government jobs and had health insurance partially funded by one form of government or another. I know plenty of people in private industry that pay nothing for their healthcare and many are in union jobs.
“Tea Bag Leaders”?
Is that designation really necessary or even fair?
Hey MH!
The Left, and moderates-in-denial joyously love to call those in the Tea Party movement “teabaggers”. Could you post a graphic of what that actually refers too? If not, could I?
I’m getting sick of this sh|t.
Dick Armey should go to jail for having lobbyist income and a health care insurance policy subsidized by government while espousing his own political views? Moon, he would have to share his cell with a whole lot of Democrats.
Ring, sorry, I don’t recall calling anyone a tea bagger so don’t accuse me of sh**. I am sure if you want a graph you can find one.
[unsubstantiated rumor removed}
Rez, the show is being aired this weekend. Sorry I didn’t get to it last year. The thread was a special request. The spelling was wrong also. Hopefully it didn’t get picked up by the AP with that misspelling.
Moon, the judge would dismiss your case in para 2 of #5. The guy who allegedly outed Valerie Plame was Deputy Sec. of State Richard Armitage.
It’s all too partisan for me.
Yes, Wolverine is right. I think MH confused Amitage with Army. I hope MH corrects the info at the top.
And, the Republicans definitely don’t have an exclusive as far as congressman who’ve ended up in jail. Not by a long shot.
Really misspelled things – I meant “confused Armitage with Armey”. The names are a little hard to spell. Anyway, my reaction in reading the thread was right away “Dick Armey had nothing to do with it”. I’ve read a lot about the Valerie Plame case including her book on the subject.
Actually the accusation was that Dick Cheney outed her. Dick Armey had been out of Congress for some time. Please give an attribute about Dick Armey so I can research it.
Why was this by special request? Sounds like someone has an agenda.
@Slowpoke Rodriguez “It’s all too partisan for me.”
That was funny on SO many levels, Slow
I’m glad someone said it.
What does Dick Armey have to do with Scooter Libby?
Sorry to put Moon-Howler in hot water. The thread suggestion was from me. I saw that Annabel Park had posted the video on Facebook today and was talking about a Coffee Party movement with meetings in LA and DC this weekend. I asked Moon if she knew any more about this Coffee Party.
My apologies for stirring up a tempest. Pie’s in my face.
What will they call “Coffee Party” attendees?
Grinders?
Muggers?
LOL, cindy b!
Still haven’t figured out who the organizers are. Maybe it’s a “grounds”-swell.
Cindy, you didn’t have to woman up to that. You have as much right to make a suggestion for a thread as anyone else.
Rez, you know,I don’t have time to do the research. People don’t have to be in Congress to out our CIA agents. Dick Armey is still an insider. I am sure you know your peeps and I know my peeps.
In general: (not specifically at Rez) I am going to suggest you (all)take issue with Bill Moyers or Dick Armey or whoever rather than with me. I put up the threads. There are probably 100 more examples of Dick Armey being a hypocrite.
Finally, I have a hospitalized family member. If you want better journalism with more factual evidence and that is fair and balanced, go to Greg’s blog. I don’t have time for personal attacks. If you can’t debate the content, how about not commenting.
Also watching the video answers many of the questions asked.
Good one, Cindy.
When I was I personal in an attack? I said it wasn’t up to your usual standard. I won’t apologize for that.
If you said someone made a special request to post something that was not true, then it appeared someone had an agenda. I asked for some attribute about why Dick Armey was involved because I thought you had something and I would research it.
I don’t believe Cindy has an agenda but when there is some untruth in the thread beginning, it sounded like it.
I won’t back down from making a comment for anyone who posts an untruth. I am also sorry that your felt you could attack me and make no apology. Is that your view of open discussion?
” I don’t have time for personal attacks. If you can’t debate the content, how about not commenting. Also watching the video answers many of the questions asked.”
I watched the video and it was a complete disconnect with your thread. Tell me where I made a personal attack.
I am sorry about the hospitalization and will pray for your family member.
“The tea partiers are enjoying their day in the sun, but coffee is the
beverage preferrred by most Americans, and we don’t have time to
to gang up and holler and wave our arms – we prefer to sit quietly
with a cup of coffee in hand and read a reliable newspaper.”
Garrison Keillor
(Note that a proposed Tea Party Convention in Nashville has become
a train wreck. People who are organized around the principles that
they don’t like “stuff” or “the others” or “new ideas” will be difficult to
lead for long. Reminds me of the Perot campaign even though,
in saner moments, Perot made sense, had facts and – like it or not -
a real plan – remember the charts?)
And yes Cindy, a very good one,
Rez, That wasn’t all at you. It was a general statement after the paragraph that said rez. I will go back and make sure it is marked general comment.
Bill Moyers did not say Dick Armey had done anything wrong. I asked why he wasn’t in jail. I asked a question. Technically, Scooter Libby never did jail time did he?
Rez, I don’t like unsubstantiated rumors so I went through and removed them. I think my standards are higher than doing that. On that, I will agree with you.
As for Dick Armey, I feel there is enough wrong with him without going on ‘he said/she said. ‘ I was in a hurry and rethought my words when I got home. I chose to remove them.
And as an offer, if ever anyone wants their own words removed, holler. I will do that for anyone.
Emma, I think it is fair to say he is one of the leaders of the Tea Party movement. Why do you think he isn’t?
Thanks for putting that up M-H. It’s pretty incredible that the Teabaggers act like they know everything, but don’t even realize their ignorant rants are hurting their own families, not to mention our country, and helping no one but millionaire lobbyists and medical insurance companies. They aren’t any more ignorant and gullible than they were in the early 90’s, but they aren’t any less. Old Dick Armey is just playing them again the exact same way. Fool me once, call me a Repbulican. Fool me twice, call me a Teabagger.
Man, now that Slowpoke is keeping his partisan yap shut, the intellectual honesty is just soaring through the clouds! Take this think-tank-level post here. Now THIS is caliber of intellect we’re aiming for right here! Fair, no partisanship, full of 5 year old pottymouth references. Ahhhhh, this is so much better!!!
Wow, what a ‘moderate’ article… your so ‘middle of the road’. Me thinks someone has been watching a bit too much MSDNC…
Also, yet another great post from JustinT’bagee…
I asked why the term “Tea Bag Leader” was necessary or fair. “Tea Party leader” would definitely be more accurate, without the oversexed frat-boy connotation that is so favored by liberal partisans.
Comment # 28 directed at Moon’s question # 24.
Emma, correction made. It was unintentional. I didn’t notice I had typed Tea Bag (which to me is a small bag of tea, not a political party or anything to do with it)
Those of you wanting perfection really need to find a different blog. You will not find it here.
I don’t have too much of a problem with what all was written here, everyone makes mistakes and MH (and even CindyB) owned up to it. Although Justin’s comments were over the top, as they always are. Not a surprise. Shows a true hatred for things he disagrees with by tossing about terms like teabaggers and other rants of his.
I meant to say both MH and CindyB owned up to it and apologized. That’s good enough for me, and again everyone makes mistakes. As long as mistakes are corrected when they are found, I don’t have a problem. I have a problem when falsehoods/distotions show up and aren’t corrected, but that usually happens in individual posters and there is no way to control what people say on the blog.
Speaking of “hypocrisy at its worst,” did anyone notice this weekend that our Nobel Peace Prize-winning Commander in Chief has been quietly working with the Saudis to step up arms sales to Persian Gulf countries to protect oil supplies? All to the tune of $25 billion taxpayer dollars. I hope all that weaponry remains in the “right” hands, whatever those might be.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/30/AR2010013001477.html
Mistake? I don’t know about that GR, a while ago I has simply asked Moon what would she think if Scott Brown voted ‘present’ for the next 140 days or so and then ran for President. Her response… “As for the presidential jabs, they are just so …teabaggish”
I gave that one a pass because I had thought that type of liberal name calling was beneath her, maybe I was wrong…
Got another “hypocrisy at its worst” for you Emma, how about the no-bid contract Obama recently awarded to Democratic Party donor Vincent Checchi. Yet another example of pay to play type of politics this ‘most ethical administration’ promised to put and end to and which the Bush administration got so much criticism for (and rightly so).
Change or just more of the same…? I haven’t seen any change in the way Washington works, if anything it’s just gotten worse.
I think the tea party people are nothing more than people who love their country and want to change it in the face of impossible odds….
Which is one of the many Obama quotes (along with many others) you can get on a coffee cup, t-shirt, etc…
http://www.cafepress.com/obamaquotes/2525350
The Democrats are responsible for creating the anger behind the Tea Parties. Early on, Pelosi let it be known that in the House, Republican input was neither desired or wanted. She knew she had a majority, and she was bent on pushing things through that and didn’t care about soliciting any bi-partisanship. That’s what inspired much anger, and I believe led to the formation of the Tea Parties. If anyone is responsible, it is Pelosi – who is a very polarizing figure and just wants to ram everything through – the hell with the Republicans.
That’s my opinion, others may disagree. I’m not saying everything about the Tea Parties is right, but I’m saying they might not exist if not for the likes of people like Pelosi.
I don’t know – I’m willing to give MH a pass on this. She does have a family member in the hospital, and I know for me, at times of personal crisis, ones mind often isn’t the sharpest.
Armey/Armitage – I can see how that mistake can be made. I don’t necessarily agree with everything MH posts, but in this case I’m willing to give MH a pass – as this is the kind of mistake I can see myself making.
Now there have been other things posted on here masquerading as facts and not opinion, not so much by MH, that have been patently wrong and I haven’t been willing to give those people a pass on, for sure, and showing extreme partisanship .
Isn’t this what you love about the internet–how things get messed up in communication. By the way, I meant it when I said it wasn’t up to your standards–it was meant as a compliment. We don’t always agree but it is over interpretation not usually facts.
I myself was not a fan of Dick Armey when he was in Congress by the way. I am not sure about hypocracy but I didn’t like his politics very much. I really dislike conservatives who I think appear to refuse to look at the human element in the equation. I think you can be fiscally conservative, expect people to step up first to take care of themselves, and to eliminate bad programs, especially those that keep people in poverty but still recognize that there are needy people who try but still need assistance.
I didn’t get the sense that the conservatives of the Contract with America spoke enough about the need to stop human suffering in a responsible way.
First off, I hope that Moon-Howler’s family member recovers quickly and that there will not be too much stress on her family in the meantime.
As for the original thread, my first reaction when I read it was to wonder who had posted it because it seemed so out of character for this blog. “Tea Bag”, baseless accusations against Dick Armey of all people, and a charge of hypocrisy that is barely worth discussion. That’s not why I came here, and I can’t imagine it appeals to too many people here.
(Since I said the thread subject was barely worth discussion, I’ll discuss it briefly: Dick Armey receives a pension and a health care benefit due to his service as a US Congressman. He is entitled to it just as every other member of Congress is entitled to it. His acceptance of an earned benefit does not mean he must advocate giving that benefit out un-earned to everyone. Do veterans who receive VA care also loose the right to oppose universal health care without being thought a hypocrite?)
But back to the real subject, which was the original post. Obviously this is Moon-Howler’s forum and she is free to post anything she would like. I would like to suggest that this was not the type of post that made this place what it is today. I am worried that posts like this, along with some of the comments that have been made in the Glenn Beck/Keith Obermann style (Note: I’m not referring to Moon-Howler here.) will lower the level of debate and potentially scare off some of the more insightful people here and lead to a Daily Kos/Free Republic ‘echo chamber’ forum. There are already more than enough of such places on the Internet. I hope that this place does not join them.
Again, this is Moon-Howler’s forum and she has no obligation to give equal time to anyone, but if this blog is to continue to be a place where people can discuss local and national politics in a civil and constructive manner, there should be an effort to maintain some balance and tone down some of the invective.
I like what Formerly Anonymous said above. I pretty much agree with all the points there and think I don’t have much to add that hasn’t been said better above.
” What begun as a post-election backlash against Obama and
creeping big-government liberalism has riped into a broad
“pox on all your houses” critique of the political and corporate
establishment.
Obama-as-Hitler signs are passe, replaced by signs like
‘Law Makers/Law Breakers’.”
Bob Moser
You know, I am kind of concerned that people have to label opinions all the time. Moonhowler is the only one with the right to label her viewpoint. If she considers herself moderate, then so be it. Why is it that labeling an opinion or topic as leftist, right-wing, liberal, or conservative is used as a way to dismiss it? If you don’t like her viewpoint, debate it and discuss it, but what good does it do anyone to deny her an identity she embraces?
Actually Senator Ensign, Governor Sanford, Vitter, John Edwards are all worse examples of hypocrisy. Suing to separate medicare and social security does sort of take the cake when you are raking in a half million for lobbyist fees …well, not quite as bad as leaving your terminally ill wife on YOUR campaign trail so you can be with your girl friend, but still not so hot. I have never been a fan of Armey at all. I simply don’t like him. I used to like John Edwards. Obviously I am a very bad judge of character.
Thanks folks for your support and well-wishes. The patient is better.
DG has hit the nail on the head. Opinions should not all have to have a label. And we do get to define ourselves. It appears that the people who holler the worst about my comments are the very first to come to the blog with something snide and partisan to say. Those people don’t want to get along on anything and would not agree to disagree, as most of us have done. And no, I am not speaking of or to Emma.
I’m glad to see you refuse to be bullied by anger and criticism from the far right, M-H. That’s why we love you. You are right of course. It is hypocritical, and very disingenuous what Dick Armey has been doing, but he is not alone. That’s what right wing lobbyists do. They put pressure on our elected leaders by deliberately misleading the public into being irrationally afraid. I think it is more effective right now because there is more fear out there for them to work with.
My concern about the Tea Parties is that they were manufactured by Fox “News” and then their rallies were presented on Fox “News” as if they were news. They didn’t seem to feel the need to pretend that they hadn’t organize and promote these events. We just accepted that this is what Fox “News” does, they organize the far right by getting them as angry and afraid as possible. 97 percent fiction and 3 percent imagination. That applies to lobbyists and Fox “News” both.
I don’t think that journalism should function this way. But the other problem is that Fox “News” and Rush Limbaugh and all of them told people things that were flat out wrong. They pushed very hard for Bush to win two elections and look what it got us: an economic crisis of historic proportions, the loss of standing in the world, the erosion of civil liberties, the erosion of our values, and very deadly and very expensive war in the wrong country that had the function of bankrupting us while making us less safe.
With that track record, how could people be willing to so blindly follow what their favorite pundits tell them to do? They were wrong so many times during the Bush years. Why don’t they see this?
And to top it all off, the same people who follow the same pundits are told to go nuts over things that actually began in the Bush years, the same years when they blindly agreed to be complacent.
I don’t mind that lobbyists behave like hypocrites. That doesn’t surprise me. But what does surprise me is the collective amnesia of people currently organizing on the far right. It’s as if the Bush years didn’t happen or something, or they’d like to pretend as much.
And then, I feel I have to mention that there are a lot of racist things that are said by the Tea Partiers. There are threats of violence, and just uncontrollable rage. It’s just a bit frightening for the average person who doesn’t like to see such ugliness. It makes us not want to be a part of the process, which is how radical right is winning right now.
@Witness Too
So that I understand, Witness–only the right wing does what you describe?
I’m sure that there are many cases of left wing people doing most of what I describe. But I don’t think that misinformation and flat-out lies are quite the cornerstone to left wing politics that it is currently with this Tea Party thing. I mean, there’s a reason why Sarah Palin is the spokesperson and not a serious politician. Even Michelle Bachman had to pull out of their convention and she is widely considered to be on the fringe of the House Republicans.
No, I would be just as worried if the election of John McCain had led to an entire cable news network devoting itself to left wing misinformation, and 4 percent of our population (which is a lot of people) starting losing their minds with rage and fear.
Think about it this way for my friends on the right. If the Tea Partiers were all African American people with eyes bulging with rage, filled with misinformation, wearing guns, and threatening violence, would you be just a little bit afraid of what was going to happen next?
I would, and not because I am any more afraid of African Americans than any other race. It’s just that when you see a bunch of people untied by fear or hatred AND united by racial uniformity, it can send a shiver. That may just be me, but it sends a shiver I think for a lot of people who are not accustomed to going anywhere in modern day America and seeing that kind of racial uniformity.
just wanted to see your point of view. Sure wish I could see things so clearly. It must be a gift.
Well, it’s not all that clear. I’m sure there are many Tea Party people who are genuinely concerned about the deficit and genuinely weren’t aware during the Bush years that more than 90 percent of that deficit was created while the President was neither a “half-breed,” or a “muslin.”
Are you saying you don’t relate PWC Resident? Maybe it’s just me. I just get a creeping feeling when I see people who are so radical and so enraged based on fear, in particular if it’s related to race. I had the same feeling about a certain radical right wing group in Prince William County a few years back. Notice how the apologists for the old Tea Party are the same who attack M-H for exposing the underpinning of the new Tea Party. Not saying there shouldn’t be right wing advocates in a democratic process, but we have to be weary of them, especially when fear and misinformation are the driving forces. It’s led to too many bad things in the past.
Being in a rage is not the best way to express one’s self. I see Witness too’s point about that. I dislike distortion on any radio or TV station. I don’t find it entertaining at all unless it is meant to be funny.
For instance, I think Bill Maher can be very funny. However, I don’t accept him a news person. He is a comedian and a commentator. You can take him or leave him. Robin Williams is funny. But he isn’t the news.
I recently heard something that nearly left me speechless, even though I spent almost 30 years in Federal service. In a recent interview, the President of the United States, the same who has been pushing strongly for what is now known as Obamacare, admitted that the people may have been misled. He acknowledged his prior promise that, if health care reform was passed, those who were already happy with their health care plans would not lose them. However, he also confessed that, if some of the provisions in the current bills were to become law, these people could well lose their plans and wind up in a “public option” against their will. He finished by admitting — and I heard him say this — that somebody had “snuck” some things into those bills which negated his previous promise. He did not identify the “somebody.”
All of which leads me to ask: “Who in the Hell is in charge of this thing?!!!” And you want to risk having the government with a heavy hand in your personal health care? Back to the drawing board, guys and gals. And some would have you believe that the Tea Party people are “ignorant and gullible.” Hah!
And yet we discuss this in a thread that was started as a “Tea Bag” thread.
I do find it humorous that for some people only “right-wing” lobbyists are a problem. Those people seem to forget that the most successful lobbyists are always ones with connections to the majority party in Congress. Members in the majority are able to push legislation through and have much more flexibility in earmarks. If you look at a site like opensecrets you’ll see that some of the largest companies are very fickle with their support. The supported the Democrats until 1994, then the GOP until 2006 and now the Democrats again. But apparently lobbyists are only a problem if they interfere with your particular political view. When former GOP-rep Billy Tauzin, now the head of PhRMA (the drug manufacturers’ lobbying arm) cut an $80 billion deal with the White House to support HCR that wasn’t thread-worthy hypocrisy. But Dick Armey using his Congressional pension while continuing to oppose HCR (he opposed the 1994 HCR effort) is.
And to those who claim that fiscal conservatives were not complaining about deficits under the Bush administration, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it once again. You should try looking at the archives of a conservative website or magazine from 2001-2007 and see what they had to say. (Start with one of the big magazines like Weekly Standard or National Review.) You’d be hard pressed to find many conservatives (or in some cases even one!) that supported NCLB, the prescription drug benefit, the farm bills or many of the other large spending initiatives of the Bush administration. To be blunt, just because you never listened to fiscal conservatives complaints during the Bush administration doesn’t mean they weren’t complaining.
@Witness Too
My only point is that extremists all act the same way no matter which side of the spectrum they are on. To speak to only one end is by itself a partisan remark and APPEARS to deny that during the years of conservative presidencies people on the extreme left wing were just as rabid. (Note I used the word appears because I don’t choose to attach specific intent on Witness’ comment.)
Again, we all are part of the “soundbite” generation. We have so much information thrust at us that only the noisiest and direct gets through, even though the noisy and direct sounds harsh.
I just wish that people would stop attaching evil intent to the messengers. It certainly does not further the dialogue.
By the way, Wolfie, two items showed up in the Washington Post–one was about abstinence programs and the other was Sally Jenkins column in the sports section about the Tim Tebow ad at the upcoming Super Bowl. Both are good reads since there were recent threads about the subjects.
This is exactly the kinds of things that scare people about healthcare reform. No one knows what has been snuck into the bill, and no one can prove that those of us who like our current plans won’t be forced into the public option. Some companies may find it easier to pay the penalty of not offering health insurance, and let their employees just go with the public option. They may not be many, but chances of them being zero from what it seems – are not great. I like my health plan, it is excellent and for example there is no out of pocket cost for prescriptions at least unless I guess you get a lot in a year and exceed a certain amount. Also, unused money gets carried over to the next year. If I lose that plan, I will be very angry as it has saved a lot of money for prescriptions for me and my wife – not that we get a lot of prescriptions, but still having no copay is great!
EXACTLY! I agree with that. On this blog, some posters seems to think it is only limited to right wing extremists. THAT, I have a problem with – and they post it as fact and not opinion.
I remember the angry people at Bush’s first innauguration. There were many, and police had to control some protesters and there was some angry encounters. AND, Bush’s limo got hit with eggs.
The right wing does not have the monopoly on crazy behavior, not by a long shot. It was shameful some of the utter garbage going on when Bush got elected the first time. The Supreme Court ruled – Bush didn’t make the rules, so it’s OK to toss eggs at his car and be unruly. Some of what I saw on TV that innauguration was beyond ridiculous. Just as bad as what people say the Tea Party folks are doing.
It gets back to, everyone seems to forget that the left wing has had behavior not any different than the Tea Party behavior. Somehow, if you read some of what has been said on here in different threads, one would think this Tea Party thing is the only time there’s ever been “angry raging mobs” and the Right Wing is the only ones who do it. I think that’s what I and a few others on here get tired of reading. And of course the intentional by some posters use of the term teabaggers, with its connotations. Finally, I don’t support everything the tea party folks are doing. But, no one has proven to me there’s been violence at any of their meetings, and apparently their right to freedom of speech is being questioned.
When Freedom of Speech causes objectionable stuff, or incites violence, that’s one thing. I think it is hyperbole to make it sound like the tea party movement is scary or may cause violence, etc. etc. etc. It makes for good sound bites and headlines though!
And if you want some partisan stuff – thank goodness John Edwards didn’t become VP. The more that is coming out about him, the more it shows what a highly deceitful dishonest person he is. It may be he paid money to this other person to get him to claim he was father of the illegitimate child. Is this the kind of guy you want a heartbeat away from the Presidency. Philandering is one thing, trying to cover it up and contnuing to lie about it shows a lack of character and honesty, and I would not want someone who covered it up in the way he apparently did, ever being anywhere near becoming President. Just shameful behavior.
And yes, the Governor of North Carolina is just as bad and should be impeached, I’m not disagreeing with that. It’s a tossup in my book as to who is worse between those two – as the Governor of North Carolina may have used North Carolina state money to enable his affair, and that’s bad too.
But to think Edwards could have been VP, well, that’s not good, not good at all.
Wolverine, I happened to catch the same talking point on a conservative talk show.
Gainesville, I don’t doubt it if you say there were radical people on the left when Bush was in office. I’m sure there were massive anti-war rallies and such. But none of them were afforded their own cable news network. That’s the difference. There is a frightening allegiance between the corporate hegemony that Dick Armey typifies, and the right wing fringe that the Tea Parties typify. This story (which I had seen before by the way) paints that picture clear as day.
I thought you all might like to hear an articulation of the concerns coming from the half of America that is not as sympathetic to the fringe right social agenda, and not really interested in exploiting peoples fears and phobias in order to maximize the profits and the graft of the corporate hegemony. There are a lot of Americans like me. We just don’t know how to respond to people who organize around fear and hatred, especially with the corporate boost they are getting from the Dick Armey’s and Roger Ailes’ of the world. We don’t know what to do.
“But none of them were afforded their own cable news network. That’s the difference.”
I am really not sure how to respond to that statement other than to ask about MSNBC with Olberman, Maddow and Matthews? Is it really any different? Is it perhaps because you might tend to look at things from a liberal point of view?
By the way, I think you may think that the rantings of Beck and some others are not also a concern for the people who tend to be conservative? Although I am a fiscal conservative, I don’t listen to Beck and Hannity or Limbaugh. They like Olberman, Maddow and Matthews are in a genre that should be called “shock” commentary. I don’t have time to listen to people who are no more qualified than I to have an opinion other than they have a personality on TV.
What have anyone of them done in life to qualify for having any answers? I will listen to people who have spent their lives becoming expert in their chosen field like economics, medicine etc. and they are speaking in their field.
It almost sounds like you are saying that the US is divided in half and anyone to the right of middle is sympathetic to “fringe” but the other half is not sympathetic to with the “fringe” left. I would guess that in one of your definitions, there is no “fringe” left? Perhaps you don’t remember that some parts of the left told seniors that Bush was trying to do away with social security–I guess that had no exploitation using fear? It is part of politics to display things in their sharpest terms and we all tend to miss the sharpness when we have some sympathy for the side of the issue. In that case, the other side is always more extreme when in fact they are no more extreme.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion but I am sincerely hope that I misunderstood your post.
I see A PWCR beat me to it, but I have to say the same about MSNBC. Anyway, who cares if they have their own cable news network. If you don’t like Fox News, then don’t listen to it. And, I don’t buy the argument that people don’t realize it is a conservative news network, and has that slant.
You can make the same argument about the NY Times and the Wash. Post.
I just don’t get it. Don’t tune in if you don’t like Fox News and their commentators. It is freedom of speech after all. Or is it as long as it is left-slanted freedom of speech it is OK? That seems to be the theme. MSNBC is that way, and I don’t see any complaints at all about it on this blog.
@A PW County Resident
You know what, the more I read APWCR’s post, the more I think he said what I wanted to say, and captured it better than I would have done. That’s really where I’m coming from here too and my thoughts based on what I read here on this blog.
Sorry, Gainesville–I will wait longer next time
. I happened to get back on here before you I guess.
Witness Too — I heard that bit from the President on the radio in his own voice. Don’t remember the exact radio show — Lars Larsen out of Portland perhaps. It was the audio portion of a recent You-tube interview video. I wouldn’t describe it as a “talking point.” He said it. I heard it. It’s recorded history. Still wondering who the “somebody” is.
It looks to me like we may be right back to the old problem of “connecting the dots” — only this time on health care reform, not PETN bombs in underwear. Personally, I am not against finding a way to help those who have a serious problem obtaining health care insurance. I just don’t want it done in a way which punishes others who are satisfied with what they have and do not want to lose it.
I will agree with Rez about his ‘I don’t listen to’s.’ I do consider that political shock jock and I don’t like it. However, I do think it is worthwhile to listen to the strong opinions periodically just to know where the far sides are coming from.
I think most people …nearly all in fact, know what they are getting when they tune in Fox. What I don’t think that many people grasp is the fact vs opinion element of the station or the carefully woven tapestry of propaganda that is on most hours of the day. Not all propaganda beats one over the head with a stick.
@Moon-howler
Would you agree that MSNBC also qualifies in the same way as Fox News (as opposed to FOX network)? If you can, I would agree with you as well, but in that absence, I think it is a bit one-sided to single out FOX.
I have seen both networks in the past but don’t watch either any more due to their relative partisanship.
Yes! That’s it Lars Larsen.
As for comparing MSNBC and FOX, I think there is no comparison. MSNBC does inject their opinions too often, and the same can be said about FOX. But MSNBC does not engineer news and then report live from the rallies they engineer as if it IS news. There is a level of activism at FOX that is way beyond what MSNBC would do or could do. Frankly there isn’t enough uniformity on the left to say “here is an issue now everyone show up here on this day” and have anyone listen.
@Witness Too
Whatever you wish to believe. It really is okay with me.
Rez, I haven’t watched enough MSNCB to fairly say one way or the other. I don’t mind Fox having O’Reilly, Beck, Hannity, etc on. We know they are opinion. I would think they were more fair and balanced if they had an hour commentary nightly out of someone more liberal.
What grates on my nerves is the commenting and snide remarks in the middle of news. From 6-9 am there is non-stop bashing of everything Obama and everything Democrat. More than that, there is an attempt to ridicule everything mainstream or to stir up something. Example: war on Christianity has been declared. No there hasn’t. Not wanting someone shoving their religion down my throat is not a war on Christianty. That is just stupid.
Not a bad idea to have a little more balance at both MSNBC and Fox, including some sharp but still civil debates between opposing sides without rising to the level of loud negativity. A few temperamental retorts and some sly teasing, of course; but an overall agreement to disagree at the end of it all. Hmmm…a bit like this thread maybe?
I really like my news less interpretted. I honestly don’t care to hear the snideness if I am watching the news.
Now, if I want a laugh, that’s fine. But not on the news.
Wolverine, I forget MSNBC exists. I don’t know why. Aren’t Olberman and Maddow on about the same time Hannity and Greta are one? I used to like Greta. She did some fairly decent investigating reporting. She is throwing in a little too much opinion lately, since last summer, it seems. Gerald does a fair job but I just can’t forget his past.
No problem, I defer to you – you make the point more crisply than I can!
Same here, I just think it shows a lack of ability to see that both sides are equally guilty, and MSNBC is definitely partisan.
Sortez les sortants!
I find MSNBC to be nearly as slanted to the left as FOX is to the right. Maybe not quite so much, but still more than enough so, and they also maybe pretend to be “news” when they are more “opinion”. You should watch it a bit more and form your own opinion rather than take my word for it. MSNBC has distorted headline type stuff to promote a liberal agenda all the time, just like FOX has to promote a conservative agenda. i don’t see much difference, personally. I think a few of us just find it a little odd that MSNBC isn’t criticized in the way FOX is by many of the posters on here.
I ran that through a French/English translator online, but I still not sure 100% what that means, although I think I get the idea. PR tried to set up a bit of a puzzle for us to solve in deciphering it, which is good – I like a good puzzle/challenge.
PR, haha–throw the bums out. Love it.
woops, sorry GR. Just a reaction I had.
@Poor Richard Throw the bums out!
oops, I saw PWC Res beat me to it.
Since we’re en francais, this little bit of Voltaire is for you, Moon.
Je n’ai pas d’accord avec ce que vous dites, mais je me battrai jusqu’à la mort votre droit de le dire.
Especially after seeing your editor note at the top of this thread. Good stuff!
Emma, that was Voltaire? Wow I didn’t know that–it has always been my favorite quote. I first saw the quote on the masthead of the newspaper in Daytona Beach, FL, when I was a telecommunications major in college. I thought they attributed it to John Milton but see how memory drops off after 40 years–it makes sense it was Voltaire.
(See this time I am making people go through their translators).