AntiBVBL

I have lived in PWC many years. It has always been that way. Housing supports the county, for the most part. It has actually gotten better.

It only works (and only marginally so) if housing values consistently rise at a rate greater than inflation plus the cost of new infrastructure requirements and refurbishment. It falls apart is when housing values flatten out or as we have seen recently, crater. PWC’s continued reliance upon real estate taxes is at best unsustainable.

You brought up an interesting question, Elena. For the record, I’m for the Rural Crescent and against this development. My logic is simple: why plan if we are going to ignore the plans and why disregard the recommendation of the Planning Commission (appointed by the officials we elected to represent us) to disapprove this project.

That being said, what is wrong with a County driven by more than 80% of real estate taxes? While admitting I don’t really know the answer (to this math problem), I ask because I’m not sure this is really a good argument. It works if we want to be like Fairfax (I’m guessing they have a very diversified tax base). (Again, I’m guessing) It probably doesn’t work if we compare ourselves to Fauquier, Spotsylvania, or Counties to the South.

Perhaps the real question is who we want to emulate: Fairfax or most of the rest of Counties in Virginia. I’m guessing (an “educated” guess) that most Counties in Virginia (in fact, in the United States) generate most of their taxes from real estate. That’s not a bad thing. The reason I dwell upon this is because we need a Government that can live within our tax base. It’s my opinion that Prince William County Government has grown too large for its tax base and propose that rather than looking for ways to increase revenue we should look for ways to reduce Government.

Ironically, that probably will result in a “Greener” Prince William County. Attracting those large businesses that people talk about (NG, LM,SAIC) drives a requirement for more roads, infrastructure (just think about what it takes to support a high rise complex.. or two), and convenient high end housing. Focusing on smaller Government reduces the requirement to increase our tax base. We (the County) need to decide if we wish to remain a rural community like our neighbors to the South or an urban community like Fairfax. Like its residents… the County needs to live within its means. I’m guessing our Supervisors, as a point of pride, look to the North for a model. We (the community) should decide if that’s the “direction” we want to go.

(IMHO) the real issue is down-sizing County Government to reduce the requirement for increased revenue.

Opinion, I can’t disagree but there is a fly in the ointment. The county, by approving massive development over the last decade, has mortgaged it future by overburdening its existent and planned infrastructure. There is a current need for more roads, schools, police, etc. that came as a result of those approvals. Moreover, there are thousands of as yet unbuilt housing units and millions of square feet of as yet unbuilt commercial and retail units already on the books which when, not if, built will require even more investment in infrastructure. In a sense it is a Catch-22 but the answer certainly is not approving more and merely deferring the date when payment comes due.

@Mom
Mom, as housing values go up we build our reserves. As values go down, we draw upon our reserves and downsize Government as necessary.

Prince William County provides a lot of services that have no basis in the Constitution (State and Federal), law or policy (the latter both implement things that are Constitutional). Let’s cut until we only provide the services that we are suppose to provide.

Ironically, this is good for the business community. If the County really has a requirement for a service, small business will provide it.

In the case of social services, I believe Government involvement has significantly detracted from local faith based and volunteer groups to help our citizens. If the Community wishes to provide a social service, there are several vehicles for doing so. I’m personally a big fan of both ACTS and SERVE (as in, I write them checks).

In the case of advocacy issues, organizations such as the Prince William Conservation Alliance have proven how effective grass roots citizen organizations can be in influencing policy at all levels (Merrimac Farns and Silver Lake are two excellent examples. Its influence on our Planning Commission speaks for itself). We need more organizations like this advocating for us. Smaller Government (less staff) would make it much easier for citizens to advocate for issues they believe in.

@Mom re Opinion, I can’t disagree but
I absolutely agree, Mom (you know, it really feels a bit “weird” having a conversation with “Mom”) I propose we think about “what’s next” not “what was”, fulfill our obligations based upon past decisions, and slow things down regarding our future direction. A smaller Government would definitely slow things down.

The fully thing about Government (in my experience) is that people do what you pay them to do (and are generally recognized and compensated for quantity). It’s the “if you you have is a hammer…” argument. By having fewer people (and organizations), we will do less. I’m for a Government that does much less (or a much smaller Government).

You know, we should learn from Fairfax’ mistakes (if we believe that Fairfax is not a great example of a healthy county – there are two sides to that) and not emulate their growth pattern. Unfortunately, I’m guessing there’s a pride component to our County Government to want to be like Fairfax. I would like to be like Madison County (although that ship’s probably sailed).

I am going to have to disagree that we have been dealing with grow the past decade. There is another side to the county. The past decade covers the Western End. The Eastern end of the county has been under seige since the 60’s.

This is not a new problem. This is an old problem. We crashed and burned because we were THE bedroom county. Think back to the 70’s with year round schools on the other end of the county. That wasn’t social experimentation–that move was because they had twice as many kids as classroom spots.

I often feel like the BOCS/planning office and the PWCS are exisiting in parallel universes.

Some may wonder who Prince William County’s most powerful person is. It’s not Corey Stewart, Greg Letiecq or anyone else who has been mentioned in discussions here or on BVBL. The true “power-that-is” is Mike Lubeley. Who else could so masterfully manipulate the BOCS as Mike did last night?

I won’t go into the multitude of problems in the PWC Planning Office but want to provide a quote from a woman who was forced out of that office. The following is from a memo sent by a former employee of Steve Griffin and Ray Utz to the PWC Human Resources office on January 26, 2009. This woman’s only fault was refusing to abandon her dignity and integrity.

“I was requested to “fast track” a case and the case was scheduled for a post submission meeting for discussion. Since the case was to be fast tracked, I did not receive all the comments from reviewing agencies yet and I prepared a casual memo to the applicant’s agent. I did acknowledge that it would be expedited, however, did not provide the case manager’s analysis yet, I could not, without assessing all reviewing agency comments.

“The memo triggered a meeting with the Planning Director, Steve Griffin, who was outraged and informed that over lunch with land use attorney Mike Lubeley, he was informed of my “refusal to expedite the case”. He said: “he is my best friend you know…. I want this taken care of immediately!” And I had to, irregardless of my pressing schedule with many other deadlines at that time.

“I wondered how much of this goes on, possibly special favors that the Walsh Colucci Lubeley law firm might receive. I can attest that there is a red carpet for this firm at the planning office. Special meetings with the Planning Director and the Chief of Planning are granted for them and their clients. Most other applicants go through the normal route of scheduling a pre-application conference with the turn planner on Thursdays.”

Needless to say, PWC HR did nothing. This excerpt represents only the tip of an iceberg of a massive pattern of corruption, conflicts of interests, and misconduct in the Planning Office. We’ve all known where Wally stands for a long time. Is Corey now under Lubeley’s control? Forget about Greg pulling Corey’s strings. Look at the big office across the street from the county government center.

How one frames a problem often drives the solution. Also, understanding whether one is looking that the cause of the problem of a symptom is also important.

I believe that our current problem is defined as, “We need to raise more revenue to support County Government.” I propose that simply redefining the problem as, “We need our County Government to spend less money to we don’t have to raise more revenue (and perhaps even reduce taxes)” might be better.

If you think about it, many of our conversations are tied to raising more revenue. If we reduce the pressure to raise more revenue, many of the symptoms of our problems simply “go away.” Our desire for growth creates a tax monster that must be fed regularly.

While this will certainly be an unpopular suggestion, I would propose that County Neighborhood Services be the first to go. I can hear the protests now; however, I doubt anyone will have a clear justification as to why the County should pay for the services they offer (vice letting Communities handle issues themselves and letting functions that infringe upon other County agencies return to those County agencies).

PWC historically has always had a problem with too much housing development and not enough business development (and I’m not talking strip shopping malls). Until somehow someone figures out that you can’t keep increasing the percentage of taxes provided by housing, nothing’s going to change.

Unfortunately, the developers have too much control over things, and they convince the county all the time how great their latest new housing development will be great for the county. It is all very short sighted, but it seems to have been the pattern here for years and years.

If the county’s just going to continue to be a bedroom type community, they need to realize the tax structure isn’t going to support what they want to offer.

And, the whole rural crescent idea, if they just start ignoring that and putting down huge developments, soccer complexes, etc. in it – that’s a whole other problem entirely. What’s the point of the rural crescent in that case?

I think the county desperately needs to keep neighborhood services currently. Opinion,you are a ‘country’ guy. If you don’t watch out, Lafayette is going to swoop in and take you on a talking field trip. She can point out the good that neighborhood services has done better than anyone I know.

Neighborhoods themselves could not have handled all the problems that Westgate (and probably others had and in many cases, still have.)

GR, from the sounds of things last night, there were sure a lot of people who don’t support
the rural crescent as it was determined 12 years ago. (I had to ask when myself) There may need to be some adjustments made.

I am an ‘inside 66′ person. My outlook is not the same. I have city water, sewage, gas lines and all those conveniences.

Frankly, I was shocked to hear the huge number of non-developer people speak out in favor of Avendale. It was an eye opener to me. I thought just the close to the city folks would feel that way..or neutral, but not people living out in the thick of it.

I was equally disappointed with the deferral. It seemed like Wally decided to ask for the deferral when Mrs Caddigan indicated that she’d vote against the project because of school overcrowding and he lost his 5th vote.

Several of the speakers made indicated that they didn’t understand how the “Avendale” school would be overcrowded when Avendale only had 300 homes, or 600 kids, which isn’t anywhere near the 850 student capacity of a new elementary school.

Here’s the math. Cedar Point, Bristow Run, and Glenkirk are each more than 350 students over capacity. Victory Lakes is close behind with about 200 over capacity. Nokesville is about 150 students overcapacity. That’s 1400 students. Add just the 600 students from Avendale and you’ve got 2000 kids and 1600 seats (the Kettle Run school and the Avendale school).

That’s not so bad until you recall that Morris Farms, Victory Lakes, New Bristow Village and other developments in the area have already been approved but haven’t completed building yet.

@Opinion Kill Neighborhood Services, when they’re the ones doing the toughest, most thankless job of getting the blighted, abandoned properties demolished, training a growing group of neighborhood leaders to revitalize their own neighborhoods and connecting people with resources like Project Mend a House, Habitat, Free Clinic, SERVE, ACTS, changing code so graffiti can be addressed immediately by Prince William Clean Council volunteers. Neighborhood Services is bringing together three jurisdictions for a Neighborhood Conference on Feb. 6 so people in communities can share success stories, resources and ideas and they put the conference together on a dime ($25 per attendee, with a box lunch thrown in). Hopefully they’re also working on applications for at least two national awards at the National Conference on Neighborhood Concerns in Little Rock, Arkansas in May (deadline is Feb. 15). If anything, other jurisdictions around the country should be looking at what Prince William County and Manassas’ Neighborhood Services have been able to accomplish. And you want to cut it? Yes people need to take responsibility for their own neighborhoods. Yes, there are resource agencies out there. But without the connector – Neighborhood Services – it falls apart. Look at how Hampton has revitalized their neighborhoods. It didn’t just happen on its own. It took government training citizens to partner with businesses and resource organizations. Look at Ohio and the preservation efforts there. It all involves local government as the connector.

Beat you, Lafayette.

For Release NR#003 1-07-10

PRINCE WILLIAM COUNTY, VA . . . Do you know which vehicles are allowed to be parked on the street? Are you aware of the conditions in your yard that may attract uninvited “guests” – criminals or wildlife? If you live in a HOA or condo, is your association compliant with legal requirements to process violations? Is your association “green?”

Learn the answers to these questions and more at the 3rd annual Prince William Neighborhood Conference. The conference will be held on Saturday, Feb. 6 from 9 a.m. to 3:30 p.m. at 1 and 5 County Complex Court, Woodbridge VA 22192. Registration is now open, and brochures are available from PWC Neighborhood Services at http://www.pwcgov.org/neighborhoodconference or by calling 703-792-7018.

The conference features local experts on community maintenance issues and there will be opportunities for networking with others who share your neighborhood concerns. Refreshments, lunch and conference materials are included in the registration fee of $25.

Contact Neighborhood Services at 703-792-7018 or e-mail nsd@pwcgov.org for more information.

Forgot to mention this as well. The Avendale schools aren’t anywhere on the school districts CIP. The Kettle Run school has been on the CIP for more than 5 years with a site and full funding for more than 3. It won’t be completed for another 1.5 years.

After the Kettle Run school comes Silver Lake Middle School and the Nokesville expansion. Then there are other just as necessary projects in the Southern end of the county. Ignoring the fact that the county is broke, the Avendale schools won’t even be on the school districts radar for at least 10 years – 7 years AFTER the development begins selling homes and those kids need seats in schools.

Those poor Moms from New Bristow Village were lead to believe, by the developer no less, that the new school would be built in time for their kids to go to it. That is simply not true. Even a newborn in New Bristow Village will likely be in Middle School or High School before the Avendale schools are ready.

Elena: It’s not “breaking news” or any surprize to anyone who knows me that I have been BEYOND incredibly disappointed with Corey his entire tenure and not just last night. I am not surprized one iota by Corey’s vote to defer this rezoning simply because of the goveling he did before the development industry at GM Verizon Center on October 22 last year. He promised them the world, how he was going to change this and change that, the BofCS was going to do everything in their power to make sure developmetn works right in PWC, blah, blah, blah. I was there, I heard it myself. He needs their money to run for whatever office he thinks he’s next in line for. He doesn’t give a “hoot” about PWC or what he does to it or anyone here. Thats not a news flash. The one constant about Corey is how two-faced he is. He and a couple others need to go. As far as I am concerned, 2011 can’t get here fast enough.

@Opinion
While this will certainly be an unpopular suggestion, I would propose that County Neighborhood Services be the first to go. I can hear the protests now; however, I doubt anyone will have a clear justification as to why the County should pay for the services they offer (vice letting Communities handle issues themselves and letting functions that infringe upon other County agencies return to those County agencies).
******************************
SWOOP!!
Neighborhood Services is VITAL to our quality of life in the older established neighborhoods.
NS is a big part of why my neighborhood is looking better. The residents are very active in reporting zoning/building code violations and this keeps NS hopping. Have you ever looked at how many cases they handle each year? Now, I won’t say I agree with all their actions and how cases are handled. I will say they have improved response time and actually respond back to each complaintant. This is now happening due to vocal active citizens working with their supervisor’s office and having meetings with Michele Casiato. Our neighborhood had houses with roofs of decks caved in, no steps leading to entrances on two different houses, rats, huge heaps of trash, and yards that looked like jungles. This is NO longer the case. I could go on and on. I would like to note in one case with no stairs leading up to the entrace about 7feet from the ground now has new stairs thanks to Habitat for Humanity. NS is worked with the senior and offered her a solution to her zoning problem.

I will let you take a “virtual field trip” of my area of WestGate with my pictures here.
http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/561184047yuacNi
You will see a picture of a yellow cape cod. That house sat empty for almost two years. Every local news channel, Fox News, MSN, and CNN all used this house as their backdrop while doing reports on foreclosures and the effects it has on neighborhoods.

I would like nothing better to take you on a “field trip” of my area. I truly think I would have you thinking differently about Neighborhood Services.

cindy b :Beat you, Lafayette.

You may have beat me Cindy with your comment, but I know first hand and provided the photographic evidence to back up statements about the conditions of PWC.
I hadn’t seen your post. I’m pretty busy, but had to take a few minutes to address Opinion.

ABC-123 :
Several of the speakers made indicated that they didn’t understand how the “Avendale” school would be overcrowded when Avendale only had 300 homes, or 600 kids, which isn’t anywhere near the 850 student capacity of a new elementary school.
Here’s the math. Cedar Point, Bristow Run, and Glenkirk are each more than 350 students over capacity. Victory Lakes is close behind with about 200 over capacity. Nokesville is about 150 students overcapacity. That’s 1400 students. Add just the 600 students from Avendale and you’ve got 2000 kids and 1600 seats (the Kettle Run school and the Avendale school).
That’s not so bad until you recall that Morris Farms, Victory Lakes, New Bristow Village and other developments in the area have already been approved but haven’t completed building yet.

Indeed, Glenkirk ES just had more than half a dozen trailers plopped around it last August. Morris Farm only has roughly 500 houses built, when fully built it will have about 650. Not only that, Saranac on the other side of Glenkirk (being built by the same developer) just has a small fraction of its homes built, altthough it is a much much smaller neighborhood.
Another neighborhood feeding into Glenkirk ES is Glenkirk Estates right next to Morris Farm, and it still has a huge number of houses yet to be built. Finally, on the other side of Morris Farm there’s Ellis Mill that just got underway last year – and still has a long way to go, although it is a smaller size development. Even Linton Crest has a ton of houses still to be built. I bet when they built Glenkirk ES someone thought it would be fine for all the development that was maybe planned at the time. I’m puzzled by that though – it isn’t that old and I think it was always known that Morris Farm alone would be 650 houses. Seems like extremely poor planning on the schools for the amount of houses that will feed into them. I think Glenkirk was built in 2004 or 2005 – and Morris Farm started building late 2005.

Thanks for posting that virtual tour Lafayette. As they say, a picuture’s worth a thousand words. I’m in agreement about neighborhood services, but still thought those pictures were highly illluminating. I hate to say it, that was how the townhouse next to mine looked at times while I lived next to it! Sure is delightful having to look at something like that day in and day out!

@cindy b
I’m guessing we will never agree on this. Some people believe Government is always the answer… some people don’t. All of the problems that you mentioned may be legitimately handled by other existing Government agencies (zoning, police, animal control). While I understand that Neighborhood Services is a wildly popular idea with a narrow slice of our 400K County residents, I just see is as more bureaucracy teaching communities to rely on Government rather than solve their own problem.
Sorry, that’s just not a model I will buy into.

I’m not sure Neighborhood Services actually solves problems… or creates them (the “if all I had was a hammer… argument.”) I would have no objection to an all-volunteer group coordinating with County agencies to accomplish the same thing.

While I know that the folks in Neighborhood Services are really good people working as hard as they can to do what they are chartered to do, I just don’t think the County (or Government in general) should be in this business. Being a popular program isn’t really a “reason to be” on the taxpayer’s dime.

Like I said, I knew this would be an unpopular suggestion. I made it to cause people to think about my earlier proposition, “I believe that our current problem is defined as, ‘We need to raise more revenue to support County Government.’ I propose that simply redefining the problem as, ‘We need our County Government to spend less money to we don’t have to raise more revenue (and perhaps even reduce taxes)’ might be better.” What would you propose we cut? …or do you think we are on the right track?

John I was at that meeting and heard those same promises, how PWC was the “new Northern Virginia,” how everything hinges on mixed development and the town centers, making the county more walkable and not bedroom communities like Lake Ridge, where you can’t get out in the morning because of ‘muter gridlock.

I’m just a rookie, but the more I look at these town centers, the more I see that they have no heart at the center. They’re just strip shopping malls turned inward with fake facades. The developers think touches like the ironworks arch over the Gateway mall makes it human and unique. That’s not what makes a center. A community center, a fire department hall, a library, a school, a recreation center — places where people can gather, that’s what makes a community a home. What they’re throwing up are skeletal retail places surrounded by parking lots, touted as mixed development, but without bike trails, parks, a place where people can gather. Retail and office parks, called town centers. And then more bedroom communities like the Weeds song.

What to cut? Things like a $100,000 satisfaction survey would be a start.

Lafayette, your pictures beat my 1,000 words.

Opinion, I have to disagree. If I lived in a spot where people all did the right thing I might feel as you do. Any time there are neighbors you can see or hear, neighborhood services is needed.

As for the volunteers, NO. The NAAAA-borhood N@zis would be in full force. Some of those people luuuvvv to report and will get you for the least little thing. Neighborhood Services (which is a part of public works and zoning) needs accountability and structure. We don’t need some psychotic busy-body bitch going around using this kind of power on those with no authority just because they volunteered to have the power. It sets a danger precedent.

It also poses a risk for danger, retaliation and animosity. I would venture to say Lafayette and I have seen this in both our neighborhoods.

@Lafayette
I certainly respect your opinion and point of view; however, your example of, “The residents are very active in reporting zoning/building code violations and this keeps NS hopping.” supports my point.

1. Why are we teaching residents to call Government when a neighbor is in violation of zoning rules, and
2. why don’t we simply empower the zoning folks (actually, I believe both zoning and County police may issue tickets) to correct the problems when notified?

If zoning isn’t doing their job, fix zoning… don’t create another bureaucracy that measures its success based upon citizens calling in reporting their neighbors. That’s just an example. I believe that there are existing County agencies that are properly accountable for the services Neighborhood Services provides… and Communities should handle the rest. I just don’t buy counting on Government for what should be neighborhood issues. This breakdown of volunteer community infrastructure is (IMHO) a major contributor to many of the problems you describe.

Government isn’t the answer… it’s the problem. Smaller is better. I’m guessing we will never agree on this… and don’t expect to win the argument. As I mentioned earlier, it does highlight just how difficult it is to make Government smaller as every Government activity has a passionate constituency upon which they depend for their survival (my real point).

@cindy b
Re the Satisfaction Survey… I certainly agree with cutting it.

Cindy, indeed that overpriced survey needs to go. The county could easly have a survey on their website for each department used by residents. The Circuit Court has used paper surveys for years now. They are on offices’ counters for residents to fill out and they are encouraged to fill one out too.

Those pictures are tough to beat.

@Opinion
I will completely agree with you the NS inspectors should be empowered to report and take action on violations. As it is now, they can cite violations on a property if they are at that property to address another issue. However, they can’t just drive by a house with four foot high grass and start the violation process.

I will agree we need smaller government, but there are many things that should be cut before NS. Cindy brought up the survey. I would like to know why haven’t the discretionary funds for each supervisor cut during these past tough budget cycles? I’m not saying cut all of the money but how about a cut of about $30K of that money. Other departments in the county have sure had to make due with less funds. I think our supervisors should lead by example. I do appreciate the many things that they each use the funds for.

We won’t agree on this topic. However, we aren’t at opposite ends of the spectrum either. Now, if I lived in the Rural Cresent or mid-county I might share your opinion of NS. I’m stuck here for a more years, and will probably relocate to mid-county, and I think it’s a safe bet to say my feelings on NS will change. For now we need this in our neighborhood.

When the rats infested our neighborhood there bigs one in the sewers. We already deal with water main breaks due to the age of the aging sewer system here. Then to add insult to injury we had the fourlegged rodents living in the sewer.

Opinion, please talk to Connie Moser of the Dale City Civic Association. She will be more than happy to explain to you how she has engaged people to abate graffiti, clean up Dale Blvd before the July 4 parade, participate in cleanups, and even uses her own money to reward people for winning “beautiful yard” awards in Lindendale. I’ve seen her stand up at BOCS meetings and speak about chronic blighted, unsafe properties and get action about them. She talks to neighbors first and if they don’t comply, then she bothers zoning. We need 7000 more people like her. Where did she learn to do all that? Neighborhood Services. People don’t get engaged or connected on their own. When I wanted to make a difference, I called the city and Neighborhood Services showed me where to go to learn to take action. The police don’t have time. Zoning inspectors don’t have time. I learned by talking to other neighborhood leaders. But Neighborhood Services was the connector, the home base. Look up John McKnight – Asset-Based Community Management. It was the introduction to changing your neighborhoods and it was the subject of the county’s first neighborhood conference three years ago. John McKnight spoke at the state neighborhood conference in McLean 2 years ago — I found out about it, attended, talked to him personally because of Neighborhood Services telling me about the opportunity.

Opinion,why not swing by the Neighborhood Leaders Group meeting tomorrow night? I think you would see what the residents of the older established neighborhoods are dealing with day in and day out.

Lafayette :
Cindy, indeed that overpriced survey needs to go. The county could easly have a survey on their website for each department used by residents. The Circuit Court has used paper surveys for years now. They are on offices’ counters for residents to fill out and they are encouraged to fill one out too.
Those pictures are tough to beat.

I could have given them a good run for the money for the townhouse next to mine. However, I never got brave enough to stand out there and take pictures of it. I wasn’t sure who might see, and if there might be retaliation for doing so.

I bet we could find a lot of things in the category of that satisfaction survey, while they are “nice to haves” are definitely not anything that we need to have in economic times such as this.

Another possible cut in govt – simply the choice we make. Ask people in govt to come up with cost cutting measures. Like printing. If you’re printing a $30,000 postcard job, do you print it in-house to better and more fully use the expensive state-of-the-art equipment you bought to save the county money? Or do you send the job out of the county because “it costs less to print.” Or do you balance the cost by sending it to a PWC commercial printer who is your meat-and-potatoes small business owner, who also meets your impossible deadlines without charging you more. Make better big picture decisions every day, and buy local when you can.

1. Satisfaction Survey
2. DRIVE system (oops we already paid for that, thanks Craig)
3. Magisterial Funds
4. Top heavy positions at the PD/FD (starting with Maj. Tabor)
5. Revise computer refresh schedules and renegotiate exorbidant seat licenses.
6. Sell two of the County Golf Courses/Black Holes
7. Restructure or eliminate the Economic Development staff (we’re have enough Starbucks)
8. Reduce the county’s vehicle fleet and corresponding management vehicle perks
9. Revise operations and reduce staffing of the landfill
10. Limit county memberships and travel to things like the Chamber of Commerce, etc.
11. Consolidate Supervisor’s offices into existing leased/owned space
12. Cut number of awards, presentations, declarations and pretty powerpoint presentations
13. Combine the County and School Board Planning Offices into one organization
14. Require the School Board to utilize County legal staff when possible

Those are just a few to start with

Gainesville Resident, get involved where you live now. I didn’t know about that soccer complex until I read your post on Anti. Sometimes it’s a compromise. Like using the new LED lights causes less outward glow that bothers surrounding neighborhoods. Vans and buses that encourage carpooling pay minimal parking, single cars pay more. Creative solutions.

15. Fire Melissa Peacor, Steve Griffin and Ray Utz

I suspect item 15 will be priority one for the new County Exec., that is if they hire one with the proper credentials and mindset.

and an IQ above room temperature

16. Have a fuel efficient fleet.
Why does Neighborhood Services need to roll through the county in 4X4 SUV’s? I understand the fleet can’t be replaced at one time, but new vehicles are purchased for various departments.

By the way, my first post was in moderation until I got approved. Please read #8.

NTK, you’re not far off the mark, you just have it backwards. The most powerful person in PWC is Griffin. I have the pleasure/displeasure of dealing with Planning personnel and land use attorneys throughout the region and to a man/woman they make the same observation about PWC land use policies and the Planning Office, at its most basic, it is the Wild, Wild West where the applicant’s make the rules so long as they kiss Griffin’s ring. His interaction with my favorite land use law firm is merely the tip of the iceberg. There are all sorts of other allegations made by staff, building inspection personnel and commercial interests regarding everything from moral terpitude within the office to interference/manipulation of development plans to the benefit of certain tenants, reportedly to the extent that one tenant is forced out to make way for a more favored entity.

Moreover, what seems to escape everyone is that once the BOCS is done with a rezoning application the Planning Office has essentially carte blanche when it comes to the site plan, proffer compliance and build out. If you ever wonder why certain things don’t seem to get developed in accordance with the plan, it is usually because the planning office encourages/approves a deviation from the approved plan.

Lastly, the County’s zoning administrator bears some level of blame as well. Just review his vesting determination for Market Center that blindsided members of the BOCS.

You know, if you want to get ideas for what to cut… always start with a program nobody wants to cut. It’s a classic strategy for dealing with Congress. Great ideas, all! I may actually get to use some of them.

Lafayette, Connie Moser is one of my favorite people in the world. If people like Connie would run for Supervisor (or Cindy B. for City Council), we wouldn’t have these problems. I don’t have to agree with people to recognize the good ones.

Opinion, Cindy was the one who spoke of Connie Moser, not me. I don’t disagree with what you’ve said about Connie in the least. I think she’s a role model for all of us.

cindy b :
Gainesville Resident, get involved where you live now. I didn’t know about that soccer complex until I read your post on Anti. Sometimes it’s a compromise. Like using the new LED lights causes less outward glow that bothers surrounding neighborhoods. Vans and buses that encourage carpooling pay minimal parking, single cars pay more. Creative solutions.

Unfortunately, the county snuck this whole thing by most residents in the area. There’s been articles about it – the best two are at:

http://pwconserve.wordpress.com/2009/12/08/what-should-the-wiita-tract-be-used-for/

http://pwconserve.wordpress.com/2009/12/10/park-authority-defers-wiita-tract-vote-requests-jan-13-update/

I have gotten involved via e-mailing, and quite a few people from my neighborhood along with the HOA itself has gotten involved in this. However, so far everyone’s impression is it’s going to happen. Even though the land was probably never intended for that kind of use by the people who gave it to the county.

Rollins Ford Rd. – the county has not done their half of it nor does it look like they will for many years given the budget situation, yet this park will dump a huge amount of traffic onto it.

And yes, lights that project DOWN rather than up or out would help. The other ideas, I’m afraid people with families will still go to the park in their own cars, and Rollins Ford Rd. and Glenkirk Rd. even aren’t designed for that kind of traffic.

Worst is the county sort of snuck this up on everyone it seems – no one was very aware of it before recently.

I’m sure the county, would love to plop a soccer stadium there and get revenue from that. It seems to me that’s exactly what’s going on.

The local residents feel like the county’s not really listening to them – at least that was the impression at the HOA meeting last Thursday night.

MOM – I’m saying you are wrong but help me understand this. Griffin, an incompetent hack from Spotsylvania, comes here with his mini-me Ray Utz to serve King Gerhart and becomes more influential than Lubeley? With your scenario, Griffin is pulling Corey’s strings rather than Lubeley. Why would Corey do that?

Sorry – I’m NOT saying you are wrong

It’s not that Griffin’s pulling Corey’s strings (that’s Lubely’s job), it’s more that he and his staff manipulate the BOCS into a position and ultimately have the ability to ignore the BOCS desires because nobody is watching after the rezoning approval. In relations with the local attorneys and applicants, Griffin is the kingmaker not the other way around.

As the puppetmaster dropped Corey?

I don’t necessarily want less government. I think that is a catch phrase. I want different government.

I also don’t want our cops running around giving tickets to people who have bags of mulch in their driveway. I want our cops doing cop work.

Surveys are junk and expensive. Industry and govt use surveys to justify their own existence or to get rid of people. Good place to start.

I am going to defend Gainesville Resident now. Cindy, what makes you think he isn’t involved in his neighborhood? I think walking around, getting to know your neighbors and their dogs is very beneficial to any neighborhood. I think emailing your supervisors routinely is helping your neighborhood.

I am not comfortable telling someone else what they ought to be doing.

Lafayette :I think she’s a role model for all of us.

I met Connie when I interviewed her about one of the A Brush With Kindness projects she initiated through Habitat for Humanity. Everytime I’m around her I learn something new.

This is one of her favorite resource books that she keeps lending to people like me:

http://www.pps.org/info/products/Books_Videos/great_neighborhood_book

How low we’ve sunk. A guy named Tom (I won’t say more to protect his privacy) used to have Utz’ job. He knew the County, was fair, and looked out for the interests of the whole community. When the last Planning Director retired it was assumed Tom would get the job. Gerhart hired Griffin instead because Tom (like the woman mentioned in post #8) refused to surrender his integrity, and pledge to represent and serve the developers. Enough was enough for Tom, so he left and we’ve got Griffin and Utz.

If Mom is right, Griffin, Wally, Lubeley, et. al. will have a lot of say into who the next County Executive will be. Corey asked Wally’s approval to defer last night before he moved forward. Will he ask approval from Wally, Lubeley and Griffin on the new County Exec? We’ll be even worse off than when Gerhart was here.

@cindy b
Ironically (and I quote from the website), “The Great Neighborhood Book explains how any community can be improved and enlivened, not by vast infusions of cash, not by government, but by the people who live there.” That’s the model I would like to see more of.

@cindy b
I have to get a copy of this book. Suggest you read the website. My favorite (among many) good quotes, “We’re often told that regular people have no power anymore. But when they get together with their neighbors to work on important issues in their own backyard, anything is possible. Jay Walljasper regales us with stories of folks all over the country who have rolled up their sleeves to make big changes to their neighborhood — and the world. So, read on, get riled up, roll up your sleeves…and take power.”

- Jim Hightower, author of Thieves in High Places and The Hightower Lowdown

Moon-howler :
I am going to defend Gainesville Resident now. Cindy, what makes you think he isn’t involved in his neighborhood? I think walking around, getting to know your neighbors and their dogs is very beneficial to any neighborhood. I think emailing your supervisors routinely is helping your neighborhood.
I am not comfortable telling someone else what they ought to be doing.

Thanks MH. Actually out here I’ve been active in the neighborhood, heavily involved in the HOA, etc. That’s because it’s a world of difference compared to the old neighborhood. And, as MH has noted, I’ve been e-mailing the county on several different issues, even including such things as Silver Lake before the county decided to open it, etc. It sort of seems like you continually feel like I’m not doing enough. I tried in Point of Woods long long before it seemed it was “fashionable” to do so, and people started getting all those great accolades. Quite frankly, back then everyone was apathetic, most especially the hapless HOA at the time. Anyway, that’s my take on the whole thing, but you have no idea how involved or uninvolved I am out here in Gainesville!

@Lafayette
You should really buy this book (The Great Neighborhood Book)! I’m not just saying that because it fully supports my view of the world (well… perhaps I am). If you belong to Amazon Prime, shipping is free on Amazon.com http://www.amazon.com/Great-Neighborhood-Book-Do-Yourself/dp/0865715815/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1263419677&sr=8-1 I ordered my copy minutes ago!

@Opinion
I have a copy of the book Connie gave me. Come to the Neighborhood Leaders Group meeting tomorrow night at 7 pm at the McCoart Center and I’ll be glad to pass it on to you.

That’s my point. I would never have met Connie or gotten this involved in my community if not for Neighborhood Services – county and city. We need NS as the connector to keep identifying, encouraging and training neighborhood leaders, who in turn, share resources like Connie did for me, and I just did for you.

Moon, sorry I worded it as a command. I didn’t mean to imply GR wasn’t involved in his/her neighborhood. Just encouraging it, especially after passing on the information about the soccer complex.

@cindy b
Thanks, Cindy B; however, I already ordered a copy. I am pleased that we have community organizers such as you and Connie; however, I would just like to see less Government involvement. I am not a fan of Government involvement in the intimate details of our communities. Creating a culture where we call the Government whenever we have a disagreement with a neighbor vice solving the disagreement at the community level (as the book proposes) just strikes me as part of the problem… not a solution. In fact, I believe it creates an unhealthy, adversarial climate in our neighborhoods. I would rather… well… do what the book you recommended prescribes.

This represents a difference in philosophies… and I certainly respect your point of view. I just don’t want to pay for it. Thank you for your service to our community. While we may disagree on the “how”, I know we both just want to make our Community a better place to live, work, and play.

@Opinion
Thanks for the link. I might purchase this book. Nothing against the book I just don’t purchase books new. I use the county ran library and used book stores.

I have the impression you think that I think government is the only solution to neighorhood issues. I’ve talked to my neighbors about issues before some welcome it, and others have straight up told be to F-off. I have worked with Cindy in the City of Manassas facilitating Neighborhood Cirles and participated in one WestGate. We did a couple of small projects as a result of just four people from WG participating. There are people who want to be a part of a community and those that do not.

I am still puzzled by your comment to me earlier about Connie. It was Cindy that brought her into the conversation.

I think when we live in different types of neighborhoods we will have different opinions. Like I said earlier if I lived mid-county or the RC I might not have the appreciate or think there was a need for NS like I do living in an older established neighborhood.

oops. have the APPRECIATION

Here’s one example of something NS has done that infurates me to no end. My neighbor has, oops had a car port, and the county made her take it down because it wasn’t upto “code”. However, just one block down someone has the same type of carport only it extends all the way to the sidewalk and is an absolute eyesore, but that one will remain. Here’s my neighbors FB status.
The Car Port is gone boy doesn’t it look funny. Hope your happy PWC
10 minutes ago · Comment ·LikeUnlike

@Lafayette
Lafayette, associating the comment re Connie with you vice cindy b. was merely an error on my part… sorry for any confusion.

I made no assumptions regarding your involvement in your community and am certainly not surprised that you would try and solve problems at the lowest level possible. My real issue is a bit more technical. Why do you think the Government has an obligation to help with the things you mention (or, put another way, why should taxpayers pay for that help)? That is the real question when reviewing County, State, and Federal budgets in tough times. I’m sure the County residents who benefit from Neighborhood Services appreciate what they do; however, I’m not sure that Government has an obligation to provide (nor taxpayers an obligation to pay for) those services. The corollary is that once a service is started, citizens quickly get addicted, and its difficult to stop.

Ironically, the book cindy b. recommended supports my position (based upon the website) regarding neighborhoods organizing to solve their own problems without Government help. That’s why I quickly ordered a copy.

Opinion,
Many thanks for the clarification. I don’t neccessarily think the government has an obligation to provide NS. I’ve just seen the positive things as a result of NS actions. I’ve also, seen the negatives. Not all people want to take responsiblity for their property and the only way anything gets done is by the county taking action. Neighbors will often not do something just because they know there neighbor wants them too. Then there are others that feel the are the “ultimate authority” of neighborhoods. Retaliation is very much alive in my neighborhood. It is for these reasons it’s needed.

I do very much believe the government has an obligation to have building codes and to see that they are enforced for the safety of our residents.
Boy, I can’t begin to tell you how much I agree with your “addicted” comment. We have some of those types around here too.

I wish neighborhoods could solve their own problems, but unfortunately we have those that want to “rule the world” and here within lies the real problem. Most rational/reasonable people want to keep a safe distance from these types and don’t want to be a part that little reindeer game. I’ve seen some neighborhood fueds over zoning issues escalate into a brawl. This should not be happening.

I will have to side with Lafayette over the neighborhood services issue. I suppose I don’t see the big deal with NS. Cops and zoning are certainly part of government. What’s one more? How about libraries? They are government.

I am glad Neighorhood Services are out there. I also do not think they are perfect. Igrouse about zoning but I am glad they are there too. Going into a locality that has funky zoning has made a believer out of me real fast. Montana springs to mind. Beautiful house sitting next door to a trailer with busted out windows. No zoning whatsoever.

I have also been their victim because a neighbor wanted to seek revenge. Thank goodness I was able to deal with an objective county agent rather than a team of self appointed neighborhood bosses. There are people who seem to think that government agencies like the police and NS are there to mete out their own personal vendetta.

NS is useful also when neighors work, don’t live in the area, or don’t speak English. Many of the older neighborhoods no longer have neighbors knowing neighbors. When many people live in a community, it is just simpler to pay for your watch dog.

Lafayette & M-h, we’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one. I know the folks at Neighborhood Services do a really great job supporting communities… I just don’t think that should be a line of business in which the county should be engaged. I never expected to win this “argument.”

Although, H-h, I am a bit worried about associating with a known zoning code violator…

You should be. Mulch in the driveway violation here. NS said it was ok. Busy-bodies flung a fit. Once a violator, always a violator.

One of the things people need to know about NS is that they are not pro-active, they are reactive. No one from NS drives around looking for problems. They can only react to a complaint.

I believe there is one caveat to what i just said. They can declare neighborhoods …shoot now I need Lafayette to help me out….it is like Operation lets clean this place up….and they target a neighborhood that is in danger of being blighted. She will come rescue me.

Neighborhood Services is so much more than reacting to code violations. Please, just Google “What is Neighborhood Services” and you can click on Neighborhood Services from Florida to Washington state and see, it’s about community building, and community building takes a partnership of local govt, organizations and residents. Your and my tax dollars well spent. Involved communities means less crime, less code violations, better civic engagement, better leaders.

Again, the book you tout is one I wouldn’t have known about without Neighborhood Services and meeting Connie and Lafayette through their involvement with NS.

Opinion :Although, H-h, I am a bit worried about associating with a known zoning code violator…

Add me to the list.

Moon-howler :One of the things people need to know about NS is that they are no pro-active, they are reactive. No one from NS drives around looking for problems. They can only react to a complaint.
I believe there is one caveat to what i just said. They can declare neighborhoods …shoot now I need Lafayette to help me out….it is like Operation lets clean this place up….and they target a neighborhood that is in danger of being blighted. She will come rescue me.

Moon,
You are absolutely right. NS is reactive, not pro-active. However, if they’ve are investing a violation at a property that’s complaint driven. They then can cite other violations that they see. I’ve had the inspectors call me back for follow up, to find out once they were there they found other problems that were not visible unless you were actually on the property.

Here’s the save, Moon.
NS can do what’s called a “Clean Sweep”. This is when NS posts a note on every door that lists the most common zoning violations. They explain that they will be back in 30 days to follow up. Then after that 30 days is up NS will revisit, and begin citing violations. Then next comes the due process which can take upto a year to get some issues resolved. The clean sweep notices are English on one side, and Espanol on the other.

A Clean Sweep of an area can be determined by couple factors.
1) NS can determine which neighborhoods need this. This usually happens in neighborhoods when NS are getting hitting with multiple complaints from the same area, and often the same complainants. There are some people in my neighborhood that have bragged about turning in 150 complaints at one time.

2) Supervisors can request for a Clean Sweep too. I know a couple of years back, I worked with our Supervisors Office and NS to get a much needed sweep of Loch Lomond done.

The Clean Sweeps make a huge difference. They recently did one in lower WG and it looks ten times better.

Thanks Laf. I knew you knew the name. I just couldn’t think of it. And yes. Once they get a complaint they can look at other issues.

I don’t think county neighorhood services provides much community building, Cindy. they are way too busy with handing the complaints. Have you seen the number of complaints they handle? Ms. Casiato gives a presentation a couple times a year at the BOCS meetings.I am impressed with their turn around time.

Here’s a question that I don’t know the answer to; however, I would be interested in opinions. Why aren’t Dale City, Woodbridge, Gainesville, or Lake Ridge “cities” like Manassas and Manassas Park? I ask this because the equities of these areas are very different from the Rural Crescent, the SRR, or Western Prince William County. Wouldn’t a long term strategy of evolving these urban areas into independent cities empower them to raise revenue to meet their unique requirements, determine what their community needs and how it should grow without intervention by people who are not stakeholders, and free the rest of the County (and “cities”) from sharing the tax burden other communities generate (higher street and infrastructure density, for example)? I understand that cities actually have more flexibility in raising revenue and other advantages (although “home rule” would appear to be the biggest advantage to me).

So, why are we enamored with a centralized County Government that must manage the equities of a diverse mix of urban and rural communities vice spinning off the “cities” as independent entities with more local control over their revenue generation decisions and destiny? Avendale is an example. Why is the entire County be discussing what should perhaps be a decision of the people who actually live in that community (Gainesville, I assume)?

I’m against the Avendale project for reasons I already stated; however, I do not live in the Gainesville community… why should my opinion matter?

Opinion, in order for those areas to become incorporated cities, they must petition the General Assembly in Richmond. That, in itself is a project that takes years to complete.

In addition, if those areas do become incorporated cities, they must provide their own services for their residents. Knowing your position on Government services, there are some that legally must be provided by Governments, such as a school system, and those that would be necessary for public safety such as Fire, Police, Health and the assumption of responsibility for all road construction and the maintaining of those roads. Lets not forget the cost of a City Attorney’s office to protect taxpayer monies. They can no longer rely on Prince William County nor the State to provide such services. No city could provide for its residents nor survive without these minimal services.

These are expensive services to assume payment for, yet they are both legally required and/or necessary at a minimum. There are, of course, other services that the new city residents may see their neighbors in PWC and Manassas enjoying and demand them from their new city government.

When you spread the costs of providing such services throughout a County the size of PWC, taxes are lower than they would be if they were spread over a much smaller population.

Moon, the community building comes through identifying and working with neighborhood leaders through monthly neighborhood leader meetings, annual neighborhood conferences and participating, even leading workshops at state and national conferences. Kisha Sogunro with the City’s Neighborhood Services gave a workshop, “Doing More With Less” at the National Conference on Neighborhood Concerns last May. Here’s an example of the City’s Neighborhood Services partnering to build community:
http://gazette.gmu.edu/articles/15658

Opinion :
Here’s a question that I don’t know the answer to; however, I would be interested in opinions. Why aren’t Dale City, Woodbridge, Gainesville, or Lake Ridge “cities” like Manassas and Manassas Park? I ask this because the equities of these areas are very different from the Rural Crescent, the SRR, or Western Prince William County. Wouldn’t a long term strategy of evolving these urban areas into independent cities empower them to raise revenue to meet their unique requirements, determine what their community needs and how it should grow without intervention by people who are not stakeholders, and free the rest of the County (and “cities”) from sharing the tax burden other communities generate (higher street and infrastructure density, for example)? I understand that cities actually have more flexibility in raising revenue and other advantages (although “home rule” would appear to be the biggest advantage to me).
So, why are we enamored with a centralized County Government that must manage the equities of a diverse mix of urban and rural communities vice spinning off the “cities” as independent entities with more local control over their revenue generation decisions and destiny? Avendale is an example. Why is the entire County be discussing what should perhaps be a decision of the people who actually live in that community (Gainesville, I assume)?
I’m against the Avendale project for reasons I already stated; however, I do not live in the Gainesville community… why should my opinion matter?

I thought some time ago Virginia put a moratorium on the creation of independent cities. Maybe someone here who knows more will correct me with I’m wrong.

I don’t know if it is a good idea or not. I’ve heard of some cases where it didn’t work out and the independent city wanted to go back to the county. Now, in the case of Manassas, I think it has worked out well for the residents of the City. Manassas Park – I’m not so sure, but it is complicated by the fact half of it is old and half is new (in terms of housing). Their tax rate is extremely high, but they’ve been building new schools and other stuff, and have been a bit on a spending spree. One might make the case that for Manassas Park independent city status hasn’t worked out so well. I do remember reading some article a couple of years ago about an independent city that wanted to rejoin the county – and others that hadn’t really worked out too well. And, I thought there’s some moratorium on independent cities, or even towns – which aren’t really independent, but I’m not sure.

Actually, I see Lucky Duck addressed the independent city issue, and I’ll defer to what he said!

Thanks to all for the input on independant cities. It as most informative. Fairfax County is ocnsidering petitioning to become fairfax City.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/04/AR2009070402623.html A quote form the article, ” The basis for the idea is largely tactical — under state law, cities have more taxing power and greater control over roads than counties do.”

I understand the point that a petition the General Assembly takes years to complete; however, from a long term planning perspective that is reasonable. Things aren’t going to get any “better” and where do communities want to be years from now.

Likewise, I understand the tax issue; however, implementing home rule at a lower level allows communities to own their fate regarding how they generate revenue and spend money. I’m from the mid-west. I believe that a City model is the most common model for community Government in most of the Country.

I believe that Governance should occur at the lowest practical level. This promotes accountability and allows communities to “own” their own fate. It also appears to give Communities definite advantages such as more taxing power and greater control over roads. Considering the health of our State Government (VDOT particularly), perhaps this is a good thing. Considering our experience with County Government and differences in opinions regarding County development, perhaps at least a discussion of alternate forms of Government for communities might be worth having. Of course, County Government would have no interest in such a discussion because their demise is one of the options. Prince William County could also petition to become Prince William City?

Considering the opinions I hear about our County Government, perhaps its time to think about alternatives. Just discussing the issue changes the dynamics of our relationship with County Government. Perhaps a Committee of 100 discussion?

I was similarly dissatisfied with the deferral. It appear like Wally decided to solicit for the deferral when Mrs Caddigan designated that she’d vote against the project due to school overcrowding and 5th vote he lost.

Opinion :
Thanks to all for the input on independant cities. It as most informative. Fairfax County is ocnsidering petitioning to become fairfax City.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/04/AR2009070402623.html A quote form the article, ” The basis for the idea is largely tactical — under state law, cities have more taxing power and greater control over roads than counties do.”

The crazy thing though is there already is Fairfax City. What happens to it? And does there then cease to be a Fairfax County? I don’t think that was the intent of the idea behind an independent city – it was supposed to be independent of the county surrounding it.

It will be surprising to me if that really happens.

@GainesvilleResident
A quote from the article, “That changing reality came into focus last week when County Executive Anthony H. Griffin raised the possibility of officially making Fairfax a city, prompting discussion among county supervisors about whether the community of more than 1 million residents should highlight its status as an enormous jobs center that is rapidly urbanizing or embrace its classic suburban nature.”

No… they are considering making the County a city. Actually, this is the kind of “out of the box” thinking that we need to solve our problems. Considering that Government at all levels are “broke” due to years of overspending and mismanagement, why not consider models where smaller populations (communities) may decide their own fate based upon what they value. We have very different sets of communities with very different values. Why not recognize this fact and organize our Government accordingly?

There is a State moratorium on creating cities. Perhaps it’s time to lift that moratorium and return Government to the people at the lowest level of accountability possible.

We keep discussing the same issues over and over… why should we expect different results if we keep doing the same things?

Having lived in NOVA since 1980, that is at least the third time in that period that Fairfax County has “looked into” becoming an independent city. It is a long, long process that is fraught with political implications that in all probability, will not pass the General Assembly.

With regards to the extent of the change, Fairfax County would not “swallow up” Fairfax City if the County switched its form of government. It would simply exist, as it does today, as a separate political entity surrounding the city as it does today.

Thanks, Lucky Duck. The “long, long process” point isn’t really a reason to avoid this conversation. Current discussions are about the future of the County. Perhaps this topic should be part of this discussion.

We have a County board structure based upon our rural heritage. I suspect it worked just fine for the sparsely populated, mostly rural farm community that was Prince William County of not that long ago (and probably is quite suitable for most of Virginia who still reflect that model). Perhaps its time to recognize our urban character and growing population (close to 400K) and re-organize to reflect the set of urban communities that make up today’s Prince William County.

While there are probably many obstacles to such a move, I still believe that it is worth discussing. After all, Government (including the General Assembly) works for us. Considering the performance record of our General Assembly, perhaps they are not in the best position to argue against returning Government to the people. Since VDOT is “broke”, perhaps they would be welcome to urban communities raising their own revenue to build and manage roads.

The obstacles you mention are only milestones that must be overcome to achieve an objective… not absolute roadblocks.

Thanks for clarifying Lucky Duck. I guess Fairfax County would then have to pick a name other than Fairfax City, obviously. And, thanks Opinion for confirming that there currently is a moratorium on independent cities, which is what I thought. As you say, that law could be changed obviously, and I’m sure there’s good arguments for both removing the moratorium and keeping it. Out of the box thinking is a good thing, and definitely shouldn’t be discouraged. However, it sounds like Fairfax County has tried to go the independent city route before and not succeeded, or maybe they didn’t make a strong enough case.

It would be an awfully big independent city in terms of square miles and population, though! Kind of ruins the meaning of the term “city”, if you ask me. And it would have a hole right in the middle where Fairfax City is. So, it would be a very strange “city” by current definition!

@GainesvilleResident
Re Fairfax, agree. The point of the article is that Fairfax would like to exploit the advantages of being a City. I “get” that.

You know, it has alsp been proposed that perhaps Northern Virginia should ” secede from the Commonwealth”. There is a historical precedent for this. After all, Virginia did secede from the union and West Virginia seceded from the state when it disagreed with that decision. We are very different from our friends to the south and end up financing the rest of the state. Perhaps it would be interesting to convene a “futures group” just to look at the possible “out of the box” alternatives for the future. After all, we are a Country because a few smart white guys didn’t like the way they were treated by George III. Perhaps its time for a political revolution?

Explaining the relationship of cities (1st,2nd,3rd class), counties (urban,rural)
and towns in Virginia to the Commonwealth and each other is
like trying to explain baseball’s infield fly rule.

@Poor Richard
Actually… it’s not that hard. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_subdivisions_of_Virginia

Poor Richard :
Explaining the relationship of cities (1st,2nd,3rd class), counties (urban,rural)
and towns in Virginia to the Commonwealth and each other is
like trying to explain baseball’s infield fly rule.

Now that’s a good way to sum the whole thing up!

Opinion :
@GainesvilleResident
Re Fairfax, agree. The point of the article is that Fairfax would like to exploit the advantages of being a City. I “get” that.
You know, it has alsp been proposed that perhaps Northern Virginia should ” secede from the Commonwealth”.

Yes, as you say Fairfax County really wants to find a way to get all the advantages that an independent city has.

I also remember reading from time to time how a lot of people think Northern VA should be it’s own state – then it wouldn’t for one thing be at the mercy of Richmond and the “rest” of the state for how many tax dollars really benefit Northern VA. Much of that is about the transportation woes and the feeling that not enough tax dollars get directed this way to fix that problem. That was a big argument when “times were good” and it seemed the state had tons of money. Of course right now, there’s not a lot of money to spend on transportation so it’s kind of a moot point.

I’ve also read suggestions that western part of Loudoun county form a separate county, for similar reasons. Their interests are quite different than the eastern part which has high growth – needs a lot of new schools and other infrastructure and thus drives up taxes, etc.

PR: To ease your pain, the Infield Fly Rule is: With runners on first or second OR first, second and third, with less then two outs, the batter is out if he/she hits a FAIR fly ball in the infield that can be caught WITH ORDINARY EFFORT. The purpose is to preclude a fielder from dropping an obvious out to cause mutiple (double or triple) plays. It is 100% a safety related rule. “Ordinary Effort” could be any fielder and doesn’t necessarily HAVE to be an infielder. The judgment required is if the ball is caught in the infield (slightly into the outfield can be considered the infield) and of course, ORDINARY EFFORT. I was a VHSL (VA High School League) certified baseball and softball official (we’re not called umpires) and worked HS ball for fifteen years. Have somewhat of a handle on the rules………I still work HS football (recently finished my 17th year) and I can say with certainty the inflield fly rule doesn’t apply there………

Thank you, GR. It appears to me that we are trying to solve 21st Century urban, environment, and growth issues
within a 19th Century Governance construct. We should fix that.

I think that’s the gist of it – the model of counties, independent cities, and towns is probably outdated and needs revision to meet today’s issues. Things were probably a lot different when they came up with the idea of independent cities, for example, than they are now.

@GainesvilleResident
Agree. I hope one of the candidates for Supervisor or Chairman recognizes this fact next year and perhaps offers a plan for the future.

Interesting debate in Florida over an “Admendment Four” being pushed for
placement on their fall 2010 ballot by a group called Hometown Democracy.

It would require major land use change request to be decided by the voters
and not by city or county officials.

@Poor Richard
I like it! Power to the people!

Back to the question at hand, who will stand strong for the citizens, especially this Tuesday 1/19/10. As many are aware, the Transportation and Land Use Chapters of the Comp Plan are on the agenda for Tuesday. I having looked at the Transportation Chapter it would appear that the Planning Commission is thinking ahead and proposes the following:

” All new residential and non-residential developments are expected to maintain LOS “C” or better for roadways and intersections currently operating above LOS “C”, and not deteriorate roadways and intersections currently operating below LOS “C”

Planning Staff of course isn’t happy with ensuring that traffic possibly gets better or at least doesn’t get markedly worse and suggest that LOS D remain as the relevant threshold for which to evaluated level of service for roads. Thanks a lot guys.

Roads aren’t the only quality of life deficit in Prince William. We also need schools, parks, libraries, fire and rescue services, open space, police and pubic transportation. However for many years Supervisors have been directing the lions share of taxpayer funded improvements to road construction projects, at the expense of everything else.

As a result traffic within Prince William is still a major problem and all the other quality of life needs have fallen even farther and farther behind. You don’t see this happening in Fairfax County. They are much better at spreading their taxpayer funds out and investing in new infrastructure across the board. This is is how county government acquired 10% of all land in Fairfax for parks. It’s one reason their schools are better than Prince William schools.

Are you suggesting that Prince William continue to put schools, parks, public transportation, etc. on the back burner and stay stuck in the rut of a flawed approach?

Not me….the bounty needs to be disributed.

Are you suggesting that Prince William continue to put schools, parks, public transportation, etc. on the back burner and stay stuck in the rut of a flawed approach?

No, exactly the opposite, raise the LOS bar so that PWC isn’t caught in perpetual cycle of catching up to poor development decisions. I merely used the proposed texts on LOS as an example merely it is clear from the differing texts where the Planning Office stands, more of the same.

Arrgh, I hate typing too fast, I’ll try again:

“Are you suggesting that Prince William continue to put schools, parks, public transportation, etc. on the back burner and stay stuck in the rut of a flawed approach?”

No, exactly the opposite, raise the LOS bar so that PWC isn’t caught in a perpetual cycle of catching up to poor development decisions. I merely used the proposed texts on LOS as an example because it is clear from the differing texts where the Planning Office stands, more of the same.

Where’s the text that raises the bar for public transportation, parks, fire and rescue, libraries, open space and police? If the bar is raised only for roads, the other quality of life categories will take an even bigger hit. There is only so much money.

The bar that is being raised is the level of service that must be maintained by the Applicant, not the county, its on the developers dime to ensure that the level of service isn’t diminshed below the standard. Transportation, parks, fire and rescue, libraries, open space and police also need to be addressed but short of revising the proffer schedule (already under attack in Richmond) or impact fees (don’t know that those are any better) I don’t know how you do it. Could it be done through a text amendment in the Comp Plan, maybe, if you could delineate what standards have to be met and how. I just wouldn’t want to be the guy to interpret and enforce that language, if enforceable.

Are saying the county can use the comprehensive plan to raise the bar for developer proffers for road construction but cannot do the same for the other level of service categories? You are starting to sound like the supervisors who claim there’s nothing they can do, their hands are tied, it’s all the state’s fault.

What I’m getting at is that you can initiate changes to ensure that the mistakes of the past (allowing the road infrastructure to deteriorate as a result of new development) are not repeated in the future. The language inserted by the Planning Commission would indicate they don’t want roads with a current LOS of C to deteriorate to level D or worse and thus place the onus for ensuring an adequate level of service on the developer. What can not be done is force the developer to cure all of those other roads and intersections which have been harmed previously. Similarly, any additional language can not force developers to fund all of the inadequacies in public transportation, parks, fire and rescue, libraries, open space and police, but it can help hold the line at present levels. The “our hands are tied” or better yet “It’s Richmond’s fault” are nothing but cowardly excuses blameshifting for the Board’s (past and present) own mismanagement of county resources and planning as well as for their poor development decisions, whatever the underlying impetus. Ultimately, at least in the current environment, if PWC wants or needs additional investment in public transportation, parks, fire and rescue, libraries, open space and police we will have to pay for it. I just hope enough residents realize it and think about it next time local candidates come trolling through the neighborhood for votes. (emphasis on Troll)

FYI – Hopefully everyone remembered this is Lee-Jackson Day in Virginia!
Give a good old Rebel Yell!

Is that give a good old Rebel Yell or take a good pull on a bottle of good old Rebel Yell.

Poor Richard :FYI – Hopefully everyone remembered this is Lee-Jackson Day in Virginia!Give a good old Rebel Yell!

I sure did!! The courts were closed!!! Big REBEL YELL from Manassas(PWC) to The City of Manassas, Poor Richard. I’ve had a great day, and off the hills of WVa.

@Mom
Why not both?

A pull from the latter generally elicits the former, or at least that’s what I’m told. Honestly don’t know whether I particularly enjoy that brand or not as my only knowledge of evenings involving that brand of bourbon comes from second tales of my exploits under its influence. That being said, if half the stories are true, its some dangerous mash.

Our dear Commonwealth of Virginia celebrated Lee-Jackson-King Day
from 1983 to 2000, an interesting mix of historic figures and causes.

Do Stonewall HS and Stonewall Middle do anything to honor the
birthday of their namesake?

@Poor Richard
As an alumni of both schools I’m very sad to say I don’t believe either school does anything these days.