9 Muslim Passengers Removed from Jet at Reagan
Officials at Reagan National Airport removed 9 passengers from an AirTran flight to Orlando yesterday. The problem originated when other passengers heard what they thought was a suspicious remark.
The 9 were later cleared for travel by the FBI but only after they had been removed from the plane. All other passengers were removed also and rescreened, along with their baggage. The delay took 2 hours. The final decision to remove the 9 muslims from the flight was made by the pilot and 2 US marshals.
AirTran defends its actions and the actions of its pilot. TSA also defends its actions saying that Air Tran took appropriate action. Everyone agrees that the incident was a misunderstanding. However, the 9 Muslims attempting to get to Orlando for a religious retreat are angry also and are charging racial profiling. All were dressed in muslim garb.
Should we as citizens be on the look out after 9-11? Is this racial profiling? If yes, is it justified in light of 9-11? Is our safety more important than someone else’s desire to travel via commercial airliner? How could this misunderstanding be avoided?
Read the full story in the Washington Post.
I wonder if the passenger who overheard a suspicious remark was the same lady that told McCain that she didn’t trust Obama because he was an Arab.
It wasn’t the same lady, but it was a similar frame of mind.
This is really bad. I suppose it had to do with the number of people dressed in traditional Muslim clothing. Nine. For some reason, people who look different are more intimidating in numbers. But also, let’s face it, people are still haunted by what happened. And fear is the foundation for all forms of prejudice.
How could this misunderstanding be avoided?
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They could keep their mouths shut with regard to making comments about airline security and such. There is signage at all airports warning about making those kinds of comments. The signs say they (TSA )will take any and all comments regrading airline security, bombs, etc very seriously and will prosecute. So, sit down shut up and enjoy the flight!!!
And with regard to JustinT’s comment above, how in the hell would you know what the frame of mind was for ANYBODY on that flight???
Personally, I don’t want to share a flight/train ride/bus ride/subway ride with anybody that is overheard making stupid and insensitive comments. My familys well being is more important tan being politically correct. It’s about time people and I mean all people take responsibility for THEIR actions!
What were the comments that got these people kicked off the plane? I’d like to know what they were. I’d also like to know about the person who made the claim that they made any inappropriate remarks.
JustinT: Maybe you can contact the ACLU and they can fill you in?!
“It’s not because they’re Black, it’s because Blacks commit a lot of crimes.”
“It’s not because they are Latino, it’s because a lot of Latinos are undocumented.”
“It’s not because they were Muslim, and it’s not because I’m prejudiced against Muslim’s, it’s because I overheard a remark.”
All of these statements make the odd assumption that people who are discriminated against would have received the same treatment if they were not ethnic.
Not true.
Latinos are assumed to be undocumented because of the authors of the rampant hysteria about immigration are targeting Latinos and painting all Latinos as undocumented.
People who are afraid of Blacks would not be as afraid if they saw a white person. Just a fact.
I wonder if the person who took it upon him or herself to eavesdrop on this group of Muslims at the airport did so because they were Muslim. If they had been a group of white people, there would not have been any eavesdropping and there would not have been a big stink.
These were the comments that got these people thrown off the plane:
“My brother and his wife were discussing some aspect of airport security,” Irfan said. “The only thing my brother said was, ‘Wow, the jets are right next to my window.’ I think they were remarking about safety.”
To me that sounds like they were worried about their own safety, not trying to harm others. I think about the jets being next to my window and if its safer to be over the wing or in the back of a plane. It doesn’t make me a terrorist.
Look. Some people made an embarrassing mistake that has to do with fear. There is no reason to try to pretend otherwise. What’s up with you TBD?
I think anyone who boards a plane and sees a group of people dressed in Muslim garb is going to think twice. Who knows what they said. Sorry, 9-11 is a little too fresh in my mind. I believe any person has a right to question anyone on a plane.
Perhaps lack of sensitivity fingers should be pointed at people who would behave in such a manner as to arouse suspicions.
NGL, more might have been said. 2 different people heard suspicious talk, whatever that is. perhaps the newpaper did not relay all of the comments.
Well, I’m not surprised, nor am I angry that some people became afraid seeing nine people with dark skin wearing traditional Muslim garb. I can understand that.
But it turned out these were not terrorists, so they are owed an apology.
I just don’t understand why someone would try to justify a mistake by claiming racial profiling as a defense?!?!
Also, I think the Air Marshals and the pilots over reacted by not letting them fly.
NGL: Get over the apology mentality. You are extremely quick to ask for apologies from the Air Marshalls and pilots (for doing their jobs)…were you as quick to ask for an apology from Tawanda Brawley, or the crack-whore in North Carolina for falsley accusing the students at Duke???
One thing that is missing in all the reports is what the actual comments were from someone other than the family. What was heard? I am not willing to jump into being accusatory of people who heard a comment and notified the appropriate authorities when we have not been told what they heard. it was certainly enough for the two air marshalls to take some action.
It was pretty vague what the family said they said –“My brother and his wife were discussing some aspect of airport security,” Irfan said. “The only thing my brother said was, ‘Wow, the jets are right next to my window.’ I think they were remarking about safety.”
On the other side, I am more concerned that the airline did not rebook the family. It really sounds strange that they wouldn’t rebook but then said the family was welcome onboard anytime in the future. It sounds to me like an employee said no and then the company saw the possible public outcry. That was simply wrong of AirTran not to rebook the people and at the same rate. Maybe even with a little apology and some freebie thrown in. The company should have issued a statement that said, “we are sorry for the inconvenience for the family. We have rebooked them on a later flight, and we have provided them with vouchers for dinner while they wait. Air Tran followed proper procedures but sometimes regrettable misunderstandings can occur.”
But as someone involved with air security in the past, I am not ready to condemn someone for doing what should be part of every security—if you hear something, report it and let the trained authorities ascertain the threat.
How many people ignored the warning signs of Columbine and VaTech?
I’m not condemning them either. I just marvel that anyone would blame the victims here by citing their Muslim garb as some kind of an excuse.
It is an excuse for being afraid (as sad as it is to say). It’s not an excuse for racial profiling.
Fear of Muslims is the result of long-term propaganda by US media and the film industry. It has nothing to do with actually relating to Muslims and living with them. Muslims are exactly as peaceful (if not more) as anyone else. Although I am Jewish, I feel always welcome among Muslims.
The myth of Muslim terrorism was created by American Zionists in order to justify aggressive wars against Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran and other countries. No American was ever killed in the US by Muslim terrorists, neither on 9/11, before or thereafter. Regarding the events of 9/11, the US government did not produce any evidence whatsoever to prove that Muslim terrorists boarded the aircraft that apparently crashed on 9/11. Nothing. Zero. The entire story is a fabrication to justify wars and the PATRIOT Act. Anytime you see a Muslim smile to him/her and tell him/her that you do not believe Muslims committed the crime of 9/11. Believe me: You will reap more friends than you ever had.
Non-Muslims have been inconvenienced for remarks that they made being taken wrongly, so I will sleep soundly tonight despite this incident, and I think the Earth will continue to turn on ist axis.
The pilot and the pilot alone, has sole discretion over whether somebody flies or not. If the pilot says no, that plane will not take off until the person(s) is/are removed.
In today’s environment everyone has to realize their behavior on an airplane is closely watched. If any comment on security or procedures or an comment someone felt was inappropriate was made, then is should be checked out for the safety of all. Last time I flew (last month), some teenagers were laughing and joking in line about how they’d like to experience a “rough” airline ride. They were removed from the line and I never saw them board the flight. They were two white kids and one black kid. It can happen to anyone that makes comments that stike concern in someone else.
I have not yet read nor heard the exact comments that were made, only a summation from the family members. Lets allow all the facts to come out.
None of us have any idea what the remarks are other than the quotes in the Post, which sounded totally benign.
I just find it really curious that some people want to blame the incident on something they don’t know for sure, and don’t have any evidence about (other than evidence that exonerates the Muslim Americans who were horribly inconvenienced that day).
I just don’t get why someone would read the article and say “It must have been the Muslim American people’s fault.”
And it’s interesting that others, like me, would read the article and say “It must have had something to do with the way they were dressed and the way they looked.”
I think I’m right. But that’s my job. Lucky Duck, don’t you think it’s true that the ear is prejudiced by what the eye sees in this case. If so, it really is unfair that these people missed their weekend retreat.
NGL,
I hope for the sake of the lives of American citizens, that you in no manner hold any sort of position in national security. You would sacrifice thousands of lives in order to not “be mean” to anyone. The terrorists would like to elect you ruler of the world.
NGL,
They didn’t miss their retreat, they flew on another airline. I don’t see these folks as victims. Why in a post 9-11 society would anyone dress in muslim garb AND make security statements? That seems to me to be goading TSA or the airlines to do exactly what they did.
I try to be sensitive and I don’t think all muslims are terrorists. However, I would expect some precaution to be used and for Muslims to realize that Americans of all persuassions to still be skittish about boarding planes with people who appear to be outliers.
It is our respeonsibility to be aware of our surroundings and to report suspicious looking (sounding/smelling/feeling) things to the proper authorities. How about the regular passengers who were delayed more than 2 hours? Where they not victims also?
I would say as far as airline safety goes, it is always better to err on the side of caution. Once that plane is off the ground, it is far too late to change course.
If I were on that plane with my family I would want them questioned. I agree with M-H. I have a friend from the Sudan. He thinks we’re all crazy – in his country if Americans bombed a few buildings they could expect to be knifed on the streets. The fact that we don’t makes him wonder – and glad he lives here. He has told me he would prefer more were stopped and checked. It makes HIM feel safer.
Anyone that decides to board a plane (for goodness sake) in full Muslim garb and then question safety in any way should have their heads examined. Especially putting their children in the situation. I don’t get it. I would be inclined to be a tad less conspicuous.
I would think the same thing about a nine blonde guys with nice white teeth in full commando garb boarding a plane well.
“horribly inconvenienced ”
I’ve got worse stories than that, just as a casual flyer.
Guess I’m weird, because when I see some of the Arab/Muslim dressed in their, maybe, required garb, I feel sorry for them. When in Rome do as the Romans
. It seems soooo simple. But we see the Sikhs with their top-knots and turbans, the Pakistanis in their “harem pants”, the Indian women in their saris in the post office, and I can’t help but wonder why they don’t want to dress, not necessarily to fit in, but not so as to stand out from the majority.
Another comment: Why should we be afraid to make comments similar to those made by these travelers? In America one should not be afraid to make comments, should one?
Punchak, I think you have a valid point. I have always believed in the ‘when in Rome’ mentality. Places like Saudi Arabia force you to do their Rome. I have several Americal friends who grew up there. If they went off the American compound, they dressed Saudi and covered themselves. They told me holy men would beat you with sticks if you didn’t. That doesn’t sound very holy to me but what do I know.
I have never lived overseas so it is hard for me to judge. I believe if I went out in public I would dress as the natives do.
NGL, I expect you would be very uncomfortable flying in and out of Israel. I don’t think we can afford to get complacent about air safety. I would rather be offended every time I flew than to ever have another 9-11.
Moon-howler
Years ago I was waiting to check in with an airline at JFK in New York next to El Al. There were armed guards by the door. This is ONE airline I can well understand why it goes to the extreme checking passengers.
I’ve been fortunate to travel quite a bit. The only time I was body checked was in Khatmandu, Nepal. I was put behind curtains and a woman was feeling me up and down. Not nice!
In Amsterdam my husband and I were in line for check-in and were called aside, apart, and questioned by an official about where we had been and how long we had been in the different places. I was also placed in one of those enclosures where air blows up your skirt and what else to make sure you’re not hiding something in your clothing.
Traveling is interesting – at least it used to be.
An aside – this shoe removal is so US. Nowhere else do you have to walk through check-in barefoot or in your stocking feet.
Friends of the Freedom Fry:
All I said was that we should not blame the victims. It was a mistake. They weren’t terrorists. It was a mistake!
You know, if the police arrest the wrong person, they don’t sit there and blame the guy they picked up because he fit the description!!!
There was more on the news about the muslim family tonight. It seems that the word ‘bomb’ was used. I believe one pondered where the safest place to sit was if there was a bomb on board. If this is true then no apology should even be considered. In fact, it should be painful to be stupid. If I did that I would be thrown to the ground and arrested and rightfully so.
Skin color was not an issue with the people in this incident. They appeared to just want attention. One of the women was particularly outspoken and 8 of them were American citizens. Why should they be given a bye?
Actually, when I first encountered the article, I had no opinions. They started setting in as the day wore on. now I smell set up all over it.
I would certainly be upset if this were come kind of stunt. I’m very skeptical of whoever it is that cried wolf. It’s embarrassing to make a mistake like this with all implications of prejudice. It would not surprise me if the are now claiming to have heard the word bomb to save face.
But, I don’t know this person. I haven’t even seen any of the news coverage. I’m just wondering why some folks are quick to assume it’s the fault of the people who “look” like terrorists on account of their ethnicity and clothing.
I’m sorry but a sari is not the same as a military commando uniform. And, if it were an American uniform, I don’t think anyone would be afraid to ride with them. Same with U.K. If it said United Arab Emerits, then I’d understand your (probably unfounded) anxiety.
This wasn’t a sari. I can’t give you the right names. I just think when you go on a plane you do everything possible to comply with whatever rules and regulations there are, regardless of how stupid you think they are.
I was only half listening but I believe one of the people themselves explained what they said. The word bomb was used. Use the word ‘bomb’ and you are dead meat regardless of your ethnicity when flying.
i want to get through an airport with as little hassle as possible. I wear shoes I can get off and on and don’t wear jewelry that is going to set off a three alarm signal. I watch what I say. I want no interruptions of my trip. Taking up issues with TSA people is just stupid. It holds up the line and they are not in a decision making capacity as a rule. Go home and write TSA and your congressman.
The 9 muslims should have thought about their garb, and their speech. I feel it is they who need to go to senstivity training. Duh! Americans are skittish about Muslims in airplanes talking about bombs. I wonder effen why!!
Okay to police their speech but not their garb.
In a perfect world, I agree. I doubt if most of us were honest with ourselves, we would admit that the Muslim garb probably tweeked a nerve. Additionally, some of these outfits where you cannot see a person’s face are just plain old dangerous.
I do think anyone who is partially hidden by clothing should have different scrutiny. Remember after the Columbine shootings kids were forbidden to wear long coats where weapons could be easily concealed? Same idea. I feel certain Bin Laden is running around in a birka as we speak.
M-H, I know you are just messing with me. I’m not taking the bait!
Umm,did you guys miss the comments by Elias Davidsson:
“The myth of Muslim terrorism was created by American Zionists in order to justify aggressive wars against Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran and other countries. No American was ever killed in the US by Muslim terrorists, neither on 9/11, before or thereafter. Regarding the events of 9/11, the US government did not produce any evidence whatsoever to prove that Muslim terrorists boarded the aircraft that apparently crashed on 9/11. Nothing. Zero. The entire story is a fabrication to justify wars and the PATRIOT Act. Anytime you see a Muslim smile to him/her and tell him/her that you do not believe Muslims committed the crime of 9/11. Believe me: You will reap more friends than you ever had.”
Elias,
I 100% disagree with your paranoid conspiratorial theory. Maybe you need to read the report from the 911 commission. I also HIGHLY doubt you are Jewish!!!!!! Your comments must be a plant cause no one actually believes the hogwash you wrote
Now, having addressed that bizzare comment, I find the treatment AFTERWARDS of this family extremely objectionable. That Airtran did not profusely apologize immediately is outrageous to me. It is one thing to be careful, and I know that we live in a heightend environment, but imagine if that were you and YOUR family, how incredibly horrible that would feel. No matter how you look at it, if they had been red haired and freckled, this would not have happened.
Personally, I think muslims should feel free to pray to allah before, during, and after the flight. The should feel free to do this without any fear of being barred from the flight.
Of course, anybody who doesn’t like it is free to take the next flight.
Elena, yes I did miss it. The comment must have been in moderation. After reading it, I am glad I did miss it. That’s a plant if I ever saw one.
Actually, if they had been red haired and freckled they would have been put off the plane in all probability. Just uttering the word bomb will do it. They didn’t look particularly middle eastern in physical appearance.
I rode one of those moon cars at Dulles once with a woman in an ‘almost burka,’ pushing a baby carriage with boxes on it. Yes, I was uncomfortable. We have been told to be aware of our environment. I thought it was a strange get up.
Unless something else comes out, I don’t think anything more needs to be done. Their money was refunded. No one has had any sympathy for the other hundred plus passengers who were delayed over 2 hours. You don’t say bomb in an airport. You don’t have behavior that makes others uncomfortable.
No, NGL, I am not jerking you. I honestly believe this. I think there is a fine line with airline security. I just have no sense of humor about air travel. Serious business.
Seriously, whether it’s the fear generated when people speak spanish or pray to allah out loud or remark about airport security, why do some people feel an irrational and wholly unearned sense of entitlement to tell minorities what to do?
Instead of telling minorities what to do, let them be and get your over-privileged, self-important ass off the plane. We have the right to be whoever we want to be whenever we want to be it.
All this BS about teens or people with red hair being pulled off of planes isn’t fooling anyone beyond those who have an emotional vested interest in being fooled.
There’s nothing wrong with saying whatever you want on an airplane. Freedom of speech does not end at the door of the airport. The standard for reasonable searches and seizures is probable cause. Saying things that pique the fears of brainwashed sheep does not rise to the level of probable cause.
It isn’t about praying to allah. I don’t give a rats ass who someone prays to or who they don’t pray to. Mackie, you have so many minorities in your mind that *i* am probably a minority also.
9-11 was not carried out by the AME senior women’s prayer group. 9 out of the 11 were Saudi men. There is an association. You can bet my prividged ass would be off the plane or theirs would be if I would anyone discussing bombs. Set up. Sounds to me like some folks were out looking for a lawsuit. More victims for the victim mentality club.
End of conversation. It is going to the absurd. Time to let Richard Reid pilot the plane. Mackie is here.
Update on yesterday’s story:
I’m sure the greedy lawyers are already swarming about and have contacted that family regarding a lawsuit… It could be they were out looking for a lawsuit. In any event, if indeed the word “bomb” was uttered, that’s case closed in my book. Everyone by now should know that anywhere in the airport or airplane you can’t say things like that. There is freedom of speech, yes, but not to say things that would lead one to believe you might be plotting something dangerous in an airport or airplane. And, it doesn’t matter what ethnic group you are if you say something like that. Also, for anyone who has flown on El Al, the Israeli’s make you go through a lot more than we do, and put up with a lot less than we do. If any word like that was spoken on an El Al – no matter what ethnicity you are – you would probably be hauled off to jail!
I give it 50/50 odds at least that a lawsuit will arise out of it – even if it wasn’t the intentions of the family – the lawyers will persuade them. Then again, I still think it’s possible that the group was looking for a lawsuit in the first place – I don’t give it huge odds, but I’d say perhaps 20% chance.
Gainesville, it would be interesting to see how the young woman who seemed to be the mouth piece of the group dresses and acts when not on a plane to a religious retreat. Most people, not looking for trouble, tend to go for the least conspicuous. These people appeared to want to call attention to themselves.
‘Fire in a burning building’ came to mind reading your posts. Free speech is limited by the safety of others.
Hooray for the apology from AirTrans. I read the news story, so now I know more of the details. I still think it is shameful to want to assume that the would-be passengers were to blame for this, especially now that we know that the word “bomb” was never said and that it was too teenage girls who whispered to their parents they saw some terrorists in row 15 and started the whole unfortunate circus.
There is no shame in admitting a mistake.
MH – I agree with you about not being conspicious when traveling. It is important for Americans too these days to not be conspicious when traveling overseas – avoid wearing flashy clothes, jewelry, etc. that will make you stand out. It would indeed be most enlightening to see how that women who was the de facto spokesperson dresses when not going to a religous retreat. If she doesn’t dress that way normally, then she could have changed into those clothes upon arrival. In any event, if the word “bomb” was uttered, then it makes how they dress a moot point. It would not matter if they were wearing jeans and t-shirts and were Caucasian – they should have been rounded up and thrown off the plane too. As you or someone else pointed out – at this point not all the facts are known to make a 100% judgement on this.
It still all goes back to common sense – when traveling at the airport and on the plane – don’t do anything to stand out, and don’t ever say any phrase or word that would be considered dangerous! Never say bomb or gun, for one thing. If after this long period of time after 9/11 – people haven’t figured that out, then they deserve at the very least to be inconvienced, if not treated more harshly. Being a somewhat frequent flyer, I would say if nothing else, they erred on the side of caution in this case, but it may not really have been an error if these people did say some word like bomb, or in an even worse case – did this purposely to draw attention.
It will be interesting to read further developments – I’ll bet the greedy lawyers are chomping at the bit on this one, and perhaps that spokeswoman is too! I was not very impressed with what she had to say in defense of her group.
GainesvilleResident,
If you want to adopt such a sheep like attitude every time you fly that’s your choice but I don’t understand why you think everyone else ought to. If someone on the flight makes you nervous, just take the next flight.
I hope these Muslims sue this airline. Uttering the word ‘bomb’ in the course of a conversation is not the same as making a clear threat.
This was a violation of the Muslims’ 4th amendment rights.
don’t see why anyone should feel s/he can’t wear native garb, especially when that garb is an outward demonstration of religious beliefs. We wouldn’t ask a priest to stop wearing a collar or nuns to cease wearing habits if they want to wear these religious “uniforms.” Why would we ask Muslims to do anything different?
This is supposed to be the United States where there is freedom of religion. What I am getting from this incident, from the reporters on the plane and even from some comments on this blog is that we do NOT have real freedom. If we did, we wouldn’t be discussing whether or not Muslims should dress in traditional clothing.
If we believe we are a nation of immigrants, we should not expect those immigrants to deny their heritage and culture to appease the paranoid.
Think of it in lighter terms: if the hippies gave up sporting tie-dye because it made people uncomfortable, think of how much we would be missing right now as a society!
The worst native garb I’ve seen while abroad are the women in those huge white sneakers standing in front of the Rome/Paris/London/Athens SHERATON. Dear God…….
Mackie – all I’ll say that if someone on the flight I was on uttered the word bomb – I think they are the ones that should get off the flight – not me. And it wouldn’t just make me nervous, I’m sure it would make a lot of other people nervous too. If that makes me a sheep, so be it.
And by your definition the Muslims would be sheep for letting the greedy lawyers convince them to sue. Lawsuits like these and greedy lawyers are a big part of the problem with our society.
Gainesville, I agree 100%.
Tuscadero, no one is saying muslims shouldn’t be allowed to wear relgious clothing on airplanes. I just wonder why they would want to.
If you say bomb on an airline or in an airport and are overheard, things will not go well for you. That falls right in to the ‘fire in a crowded theater’ category.
There is always some pita who wants to prove a point by getting in an argument with some rank and file TSA agent. This delays everyone.
I have reported an irregularity on a plane. It was taken seriously but not lightly. The flight attendant did not go flying off the handle. And it was handled very quietly and sensitively. I was also not on Air Tran
MH – Yes, it is the Muslims’ free choice (or anyone’s for that matter) to wear religious clothing on the airlines. However, if they chose to, again since it is their free choice, they should be aware it may bring about unwanted consequences, and accept whatever happens as a result of that free choice. Free choice involves accepting responsibility for one’s actions – and that is something I don’t exactly see happening here. Same with free speech – I support anyone’s right to say whatever it is they want to say in a PUBLIC place (an airline is not exactly a public place and they have the right to restrict one from saying things like bomb, etc.) – but again a person has to accept the consequences of saying something unpopular, too.
I once was behind some idiot who seemed to want to cause trouble at the security checkpoint in the airport. He had a beef about them inspecting his laptop with the cloth that is used to detect explosive residue. I take my laptop all the time and have no issue with that. In my opinion, if you have an issue with that, you must either have something to hide – or in this particular case my guess was this guy was just looking to pick a fight for some strange reason. They finally took him off to the side (with his laptop) and let the rest of us continue on, but it wasted 2 or 3 minutes of my time as I was right behind him, unfortunately. I’m sure he then made a beef about his precious time being wasted, unconcerned he was wasting several other people right behind him, or maybe he was gunning for a lawsuit.
I also many years ago (late 80’s) – was in the middle of a flight to California and about half way there, when some guy from India several rows back stood up and started shouting really loud incoherent stuff (probably in his native language). The flight attendants got him to calm down and sit back down and he was quiet the rest of the flight, but it left me unnerved for the 2 hours remaining in the flight. I might have been fine if they had chosen to land the plane early somewhere. But things were a lot different back then. I imagine if that happened today, the plane would have done an early emergency landing of some sort.
Over the years I’ve seen all manner of idiots at the airports – people who think they can do things that infringe upon other people – either causing unnecessary delays or otherwise disturbing what could be a more relaxed environment. These people seem to have no regard for anyone else and think they are above everyone or more important than anyone else. I seem to remember for the most part, there was much less of that 20 to 25 years ago when I first started flying regularly – people were in general more civil to each other and more behaved. Such is a sign of the times, I guess.
I will end this on saying I still believe it is better to err on the side of caution in incidents such as these. If it makes some of those people angry, and they choose not to fly that particular airline anymore, so be it. Of course they may sue, and that is their right to, but I think in a sizeable percentage (maybe 20%) of those kinds of cases, they were looking for a lawsuit in the first place.
100% agreement again, Gainesville. Make that 99% agreement. I wager 25% that they were looking for a lawsuit to start with.
Too many people do not want to accept responsibility for their choices. It’s always the other guy’s fault. The bully airlines picked on someone. Whine. I can’t bitch out the TSA employees over something they have no control over. Whine. I can’t talk about bombs and other incendiary devices, or safety. Whine. I have to conform to societial rules when flying on a plane owned by a company.
Much of this spoiled brat behavior is costing us a fortune to fly. Every law suit, every delay, ker ching.
I wish the airlines had been as alert on 9-11. But hindsight is 20/20.
OK MH – funny on the 99% agreement! Yes, too bad we weren’t on the ball with airport security back in 9-11. I bet if they had tried that on El Al back then they wouldn’t have succeeded.
In general, flying isn’t fun these days. But if you are going to whine about not being able to talk about bombs and having to put up with security checks, then you have a lot of problems in my opinion and don’t belong in the air. You are right – lawsuits just add to the cost of flying, which has gone up by a ridiculous amount with all the nickle and dime things they now charge you for. Do you want an aisle seat? That now costs extra. Soon they are going to start charging extra for seat cushions at the rate they are going!
It’s real simple guys and gals. If you don’t feel safe boarding a flight for any reason, just be an adult and take the next flight.
And they charge for extra bags, and getting through the airport is a huge pain. I don’t go as much as I used to just because it is so unpleasant getting there. Planes are horribly overcrowded also. Every flight I have been on the past 2 years has been packed to the gills.
Worst of all are the jerks. They whine and complain about everything and act like they are flying first class when they are back in steerage along with everyone else. I have gotten increasingly impatient with people who want to tell us all about their rights in the airport.
Guess we sit back and watch to see what our family of 9 is going to do. I will never understand why people just don’t want to remain inconspicuous.
MH – the only reason I fly most of the time is because of work… I dread it each time I go, and of all airports Dulles is the among the worst. You are right – they pack the planes to the full these days, nearly every flight I’ve been on recently has been 100% full. When there were more flights in the old days before the airlines cut back, it was not uncommon to have many empty seats on the planes – of course that was not profitable for the airlines so they cut back the flights until they succeeded in selling out every flight.
Everyone who flies should approach flying with the airlines with the idea being the only thing you should expect is they will get you from Point A to Point B – eventually (good luck getting there on time, and more importantly – be thankful if you make your connecting flight!). If so, I think people would be a lot happier and they wouldn’t complain so much. Anything else is a bonus. I know as a customer in theory you should expect a lot more – but these days if you lower your expectations you will be a lot happier as an airplane flier, as unless there is some seismic shift in the airlines – things aren’t going to change much for the better.
One of my pet peeves is I realize people don’t like to check their baggage, but some of the stuff people haul through security and then also expect to fit in the overhead compartment is ridiculous! A year ago when I flew to China, some family must have tried to take every belonging they had as carry-on. I was in the waiting area when they arrived with several cartloads of stuff! The people manning the gate told them there was no way they could carry on so much stuff – and they loudly complained and made a big stink. I forget the outcome – although I know they got on the plane, and I THINK United Airlines caved and allowed them to carry on everything, or maybe they checked some of the stuff at the gate or something. I know I was sitting there watching this, and they were holding up the line at the gate for checking in there and being loud and unruly. Some people just think they can break the rules or the rules don’t apply to them for some reason. I’m glad I wasn’t behind them in the security line, that must have been a mess too.
I have started looking at pleasure trips that are drivable. Airport hysteria can just ruin a pleasure trip. Fortunately, I don’t have to fly on business trips. Otherwise I might be tempted to go on welfare.
Gainesville, your China story is hilarious….if you aren’t involved or flying with them. And I am sure they thought they were perfectly in the right. The carry on clown is one of my pet peeves also. They slow down loading an already packed plane by at least a half hour, shoving and jamming luggage that doesn’t fit into an overhead compartment.
Have you noticed that flight attendants often have a snurl on their faces. They are trying to paste on a smile but somehow it just doesn’t quite make it? Those same ones who have a slightly psychotic look in their eyes? Who could blame them! A few passengers would have to die each flight if that were my job!
I would rather pay more and raise my expectations. You are right about lowering your expectations to start with. Lower them or stay home.
Mackie,
You are soooo LAME! Sorry, it had to be said.
MH – regarding flight attendants – I think you are right about that. Last year on a trip to Hawaii for work (sounds like more fun than it is – long hours and getting back to the hotel at midnight) – the flight attendants there didn’t even bother to try to smile. My coworker noted that they slammed down the food trays on everyone’s seat, and looked extremely bothered if asked anything. Maybe they were just having a bad day – but usually the Hawaii flights the flight crew is more upbeat than on other flights – so this was highly unusual. Other flights they do attempt to smile at least, but it does seem like as with everything else – the mood of the flight attendants has gone downhill too. Then again, that’s a job I could not do – if I were a flight attendant there’s lots of passengers I’d want to smack in the head. I’m sure their pay and benefits have not improved, and their work environment has gone downhill – so I guess it is to be expected. I’m like you – if I worked as a flight attendant there’d be some dead passengers – I have no patience for people like that!
Your idea about driveable vacation trips is a good one. There certainly is plenty of places within a day or two drive, and at worst case you could stay overnight at some place along the way. You get to see a lot more of the country that way too instead of flying from Point A to Point B. A cross country drive would be interesting some time, but would chew up a lot of vacation time.
My parents are into taking cruises, but that is something that I don’t think would really appeal to me. Then again, they took an Alaska cruise last year that sounded really good – although they said the worst part was the flight both directions. It was delayed going out there, they missed their connecting flight in Seattle, and nearly missed the cruise ship – just got there in the nick of time. They are back to looking at cruises in the Carribbean that they don’t have to fly to in order to reach the boat!
There are all sorts of neat places I have never been to on the east coast. I prefer traveling in the west. Not going to drive there. Perhaps now is the time to get to my own neck of the woods and explore it.
I wish that hotels/motels were more pet friendly on the east coast. In the west, places are much more pet friendly and for a few extra bucks, you can take a dog or 2. It is very difficult to find places to bring a pet.
Who knows of neat drivable places to go that aren’t city settings?
MH – it is a problem finding pet friendly hotels. Most of them want to stick you into a smoking room – and being a non-smoker I don’t like the smell of a room that has had someone smoking in. Unfortunately there are no good solutions there for traveling with your pet – which is something I would like to do too (I’ve tried it but have found the hotels that would accept the dog to be very substandard, or else been stuck in a smoking room at a better quality hotel).
Up in New England there are lots of great places to visit in the summer time – it is not humid and the skies are clear, etc. I know as I have relatives up there and also spent several summers up there working at summer camps when I was young. I was just back there this past summer for a few days and really enjoyed it. New Hampshire, Vermont, and Maine are great places to visit. Either a long day drive or else overnight someplace in the middle, but still plenty driveable from here in the summer time.
M-h, as kiddos we would go to Thatcher State Park near Albany, NY when we visited our relatives. A few years ago some of us went back in late September and it was quite beautiful – colors changing, mist on the mountain. Many of my NY relatives would go to the Adirondaks – many deserted areas for camping. Lake George is nice if you can get away from the touristy areas.
My pet peeve of air travel – in addition to the sardine effect – is how as soon as the plane lands, all those with carry-on luggage jump up and block the aisle as they fumble to get the crap out of the overhead bins. Everyone with no carry-on stuff has to wait on the rude bozos.
The Adirondacks in NY are also very nice – Lake George as well as Lake Placid a bit further north.
I hate waiting for the idiots with carry-on luggage to get their stuff so I can get off the plane. I also was seated in an aisle seat once and some bozo couldn’t fit his carry-on up there and dropped it and it hit me in the head. No apology or anything – he just looked at me like too bad, or that it was my fault for sitting in an aisle seat and reading a book and not paying attention or watching him try to stuff his super large thing in the overhead (in the process probably crushing other people’s stuff already in there). I suppose if I had been smart I should have claimed some kind of head injury and sued…. But I hate frivolous lawsuits which is what that would have been. I don’t have much patience for people with the overheads. The airlines need to be more strict about how many carry-ons you can have, and more importantly, the max size. They still seem to be way too lax about it in my opinion.
You all are right about the substandard rooms if you take a pet. I would be willing to take the smoking room to keep my pets. I figure dog for cigarette is a fair trade. Afraid I am not a camper. My idea of roughing it is the Holiday Inn. I also travel with too much luggage. sigh.
I still don’t understand why people ignore the obvious solution of taking themselves off the plane if they are afraid of the other passengers.
I think it’s much more fair to just take yourself off rather than force others to leave.
Obviously it is racial profiling. BUT it is not the government doing the racial profiling it is ordinary citizens like you and me (and that is an education process not a legal issue).