AntiBVBL

It could only be the PWC illegal immigrant crackdown resolution. Couldn’t possibly be anything else, right? All evil ultimately can be traced back to enforcing the law.

Only if you say so, Slowpoke. And what will the black velvets think of you for blaming the resolution? Awwwwwww! Shame!

Are you really that myopic? Of course not. What do you think the cause of this stupidity is REALLY?

In tough economic times, we can live without Neighborhood services. Its a “luxery” I don’t think we can afford at the moment (particularly when we consider the options). Much of what it does can easily be hosted in other agencies (why are they involved in zoning again?) or made available on the internet. The rest may simply “cease to exist.”

If you really want to play, the Strategic Planning Taskforce public input is scheduled for tomorrow evening. You can tell the Planning Taskforce what you think the future of Prince William County should look like (and what you would trade for public safety funding). Information may be found at http://www.pwcgov.org/docLibrary/PDF/009203.pdf

Enjoy!

Poor judgement, due in part to either a lack of maturity or because they were under the influence may be the cause. Nowadays it is not unusual to hear about teens doing stupid things and then seeking some sort of misguided fame by bragging about it on their social networks. I noted in the article that the suspects chose to use a soap marker, and that seems to indicate a lack of desire on their part to seriously cause permanent damage to others property, or they decided that if they got caught they didn’t want to be stuck with a huge bill owed to those whose property they damaged. Did they use racial and ethnic slurs because they believed what they wrote? Or did they do it for the attention it would muster? Stupidly though it caused them to be suspect of a hate crime. Guess they didn’t think about that part of their actions.

I suppose that defines immaturity: failure to see far enough down the road to recognize unintended consequences are lurking.

—A victim of hate crime does not have to actually be part of a group of people the offender hates. For example, a person might be targeted because the offender thinks they are part of a group of people – even if they actually aren’t. This is still hate crime because hatred of a group of people is a factor in what the offender is doing.

Why is hate crime so serious?
Hate crimes like racism and homophobia (hatred of gay people) are very cruel and hurtful. They can make victims feel frightened, unhappy and angry, and can have deep and long-lasting effects on them.

But hate crimes can also have a serious effect on the way people live together in whole communities. If they are allowed to go on, people feel that they can’t trust one another, or live and work together peacefully.

The law, schools, and authorities like the Government treat racism and other hate crimes very seriously. They all want to make sure this kind of behaviour and crime is stopped as quickly as possible.—

http://www.thamesvalley.police.uk/UNDERZONE/getting-help/racism.htm

Some themes to pick out here–because this passage is not talking JUST about crime. It discusses the climate of fear and hatred we are seeing in this county, the kind that does affect the way our kids grow up and how they view the world:

The law, schools, and authorities like the Government treat racism…..very seriously.
(Except our government which thinks promoting it okay.)

…..racism and homophobia (hatred of gay people) are very cruel and hurtful. They can make victims feel frightened, unhappy and angry, and can have deep and long-lasting effects on them.

Kids know what is going on around them. They learn from the media, from adults, from conversations. They can feel tensions and dynamics we think they ignore. What’s really happening is they are absorbing it all. That’s what we have seen in this crime. These kids absorbed it all and spat it right back at us.

Don’t you think these kids hear the way adults talk about immigrants? Kids aren’t stupid. And we are the ones teaching them.

If there were a full-fledged, open program against racism with discussions about WHAT racism is (and homophobia), what it is NOT and how racism is NOT acceptable, and if there were adults modeling that kind of behavior, we would not be seeing such a rash of hate crimes. The schools can’t do it all and neither can the cops.

So how do we teach kids that racism is wrong no matter what their ethnic background? I think we have to do it by example. But there has to be something else, and that includes bringing down hate groups and groups that pretend they are NOT hate groups, groups dressing up like mainstream groups as they spread around the poison these kids have inhaled.

–Poor judgement,–

Poor judgment over 100 time???? I don’t buy it. There is more to it than just that. Where do their anger and rage come from and how did it come out in the form of ethnic slurs and slurs against homosexuals? That stuff isn’t random. It COMES from somewhere.

Kids do stupid things for a variety of reasons. They get sucked in by peer pressure. Some are the products of bad parenting. Some come from families who espouse their prejudices openly and children learn much by example.

Let’s all remember the frontal lobe in the brain controls reasoning. That area of the brain does not fully develop until one is about 25 years old, thus, kids do stupid things and make inappropriate choices. That being said, there is no excuse for what they did and these kids should and need to be punished.

We should refrain from throwing the book at people this young. This was relatively minor stuff. Let’s reserve the severe punishments for crimes of violence.

Agree, Mackie. However, the attitudes behind such minor crimes (even if they are held in the minds of youth), can develop into the hate that allows one to commit violent acts. I think it is good we are paying attention to and pondering WHY this is happening.

I have gay friends who are subjected to yells of “you F*^%ing Weirdos” from passing cars when they’re out in their front yard gardening. They’ve taken to wearing shirts with “YFW” on them and waving back to the bigots. What makes an adult or teenager feel comfortable screaming slurs from a passing automobile? Could it be the anti-gay marriage amendments? The “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy? The initial labeling of AIDS as a gay disease? All this crapola takes an eventual toll. Add to the mix teenagers’ questions about their own sexuality or sexual orientation. And add further all the hoopla surrounding the recent election.

I agree that soap pen or not, all suspects if found to be guilty should suffer some sort of punishment. Maybe a resurgence of use of public stocks might put an end to relative stupidity such as theirs. I don’t know what defines a hate crime under the statutes either federal or state. Nor do I have an understanding of their motivation to be stupid. But if the vehicles were targeted at random as the paper states, and if the slurs, though hateful, were also random, does a hate crime exist? I do not deny that hate crimes/intolerance exist in this country and should not be tolerated. But if one writes ethnic slurs on a vehicle of one who does not belong to that ethnicity, has a hate crime been committed? Is a hate crime about intent, or does it have to be specifically targeted? I ask because I’m not sure what the definition of a hate crime is. I trully believe that the suspects are your typical, too much time on their hands, need to get a job, kinda individuals who thought to get their 15 minutes of fame by engaging in stupid behavior.

Actually, Moon-Howler, I’m extremely myopic (thank God for high-index lenses). Hard to say what’s causing it, but I think it’s interesting that these kids, who don’t fit the “profile” for MS-13 members are spray-painting MS-13 graffiti (and doing a piss-poor job of it at that). Do these kids idolize gang-culture? I could see when you’re young, that might seem “cool”. I’d be VERY interested to be a fly on the wall in our local high schools to see what, if any, influence gangs are really having.

Is it a hate crime if the victims are random? I always thought that what made a hate crime was the intended victim rather than what was done.

MH

Here is an article that might answer your question…

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/politics/ny-posuff1612176542nov17,0,6037494.story

Slow, you raise a very good question. I think that kids do idolize gang culture in many cases and this is not particularly new phenomena. Just check out the mall clothing stores to get a good look what some of them are wearing. I also do not know what the answer is. Wannabe is not attractive.

I think you are right though. The ms-13 spray painters aren’t (ms-13) . Now that is not to say that ms-13 isn’t in the area. We both know that they are.

Mackie, I don’t want to send them to jail for the rest of their lives but I think it should be painful to be stupid and even doubly painful to destroy someone else’s property. Fines, weekends in jail, and community service seem like normal punishments to me…or for those less punitive than I am, reminders why to not be an AH.

“Hate crime” is like “racist”….it’s applied so loosely by bleeding-hearts that it’s long since lost any meaning. And the booger is that this shotgun-spraying of terms that should have meaning ultimately hurts the people who should be protected from the behavior in the first place. I’ll help out…border and law enforcement is not a hate crime. That ought to get you started.

MH,

I think you may be right because the guy (thug) who did the damage in Gainesville didn’t get charged with a “hate crime” either, yet when the damage was first reported…it was referred to as a hate crime…at least on the blogs, can’t remember if it was tagged that in the main stream media or not.

Slowpoke,

I think your point of idolizing gang culture is an interesting one. I was in my boss’ office last week and he was asking me what my next cause would be after I’m done with this one. We were kidding around about the different causes (legalizing weed, lowering the drinking age etc.) He’s got a sophomore daughter and when I mentioned lowering the drinking age, he said “no way, that needs to be higher! And the driving age, too!”.
He said “you would not believe the kind of $&^% I see on my daughter’s My Space/Facebook pages! He said “these kids all think they are gangsters”. Keep in mind this guy lives in Broadlands, a neighborhood where homes probably start in the 600’s. He said he’d love to drop some of these kids off in SE DC and see how they fare. He said it is absolutely mindblowing some of the things he has seen and read.

I’m sure gangs have always had a certain “appeal” to suburban kids who want to envision themselves as tougher than they are (or rather tougher than they should ever care about being). Ask me, if these kids are looking for something to associate with “tough, or manly”, they should look at veterans of previous generations. Now those folks have seen and done things that would make your ordinary, machete-toting MS-13 kid pee himself. And they did it with honor, as a duty to their nation, they did their “tough stuff” for something…to push back the Nazis, to counter an out-of-control aggression. Sorry, I’ll get off my soapbox..but I think a little understanding of history, and the honor that many of their ancestors fought with would put things into perspective when it comes to thinking these street gangs are so cool.

Slowpoke, I believe kids used to look at veterans and other ‘heroes.’ I am just thinking of GI Joes and Supermen. How much influence do you think the music industry has on gang wannabe crap?

I absolutely think that there is a certain idolitizing of gangs, without a true understanding of what it means to actually be in a gang. It’s a vanilla, white attempt to be black, hispanic, ghetto Irish, gang member whatever. My Irish ancestors were gang members, but then it was a man thing, a union/political thing. No matter how they made a living their children went to Catholic schools, their children never acted out. When they did, the neighborhood “social committee” solved the problem.

That’s a great point about the music culture. There was a recent study that showed teenagers who were exposed to more suggestive tv shows had a higher tendency to be sexually active. No surprise there I guess, but it’s great that they are statistically able to show this.

Also, just wondering if anybody noticed that Stewart immediately cried ‘voter intimidation’ with the Virginia Oaks vandal but I haven’t heard any Supervisor quoted denouncing the ethnic & gay slurs. Just an observation.

In terms of public service cuts, I’m not sure cutting back on neighborhood services is necessarily a great idea. If neighborhood services prevents blight then keeps property values elevated increasing the counties tax base which funds the budget.

I’m dead serious about asking why County taxpayers need to pick-up the tab for the 287(g), why can’t we rely on the new state law that was enacted?

MH,

“Defining a Hate Crime
A hate crime is a traditional offense like murder, arson, or vandalism with an added element of bias. For the purposes of collecting statistics, Congress has defined a hate crime as a “criminal offense against a person or property motivated in whole or in part by an offender’s bias against a race, religion, disability, ethnic origin or sexual orientation.” Hate itself is not a crime—and the FBI is mindful of protecting freedom of speech and other civil liberties.”

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/civilrights/overview.htm

A victim of hate crime does not have to actually be part of a group of people the offender hates.

According to Chief Skinner, there were drugs and alcohol involved in this case.

However, drugs and alcohol tend to bring out behaviors, ideas, and tendencies that already exist. They release inhibitions. It’s safe to say there is something going on with these kids in terms of their ideas on race and gender identity, and it’s not just latent-teenage rebellion.

I’d be curious to see what other company they keep besides one another.

Alanna, re 287(g) Lucky Duck explained this back in July, I think. I don’t understand it well enough to retell, but we get a lot more bang for our buck with the MOU with ICE. Maybe he will tell us why what we have is the better deal. I think all the state program does is notify ICE that we have someone foreign born. There is no obligation for ICE to do anything about it.

I have no problem with getting people who have committed serious crimes off the streets. I hope that is what I am getting with 287(g).

I looked and could not find the explantion. Sorry. Maybe he will give us another explantion?

–I have no problem with getting people who have committed serious crimes off the streets. I hope that is what I am getting with 287(g).–

Went to a Unity in the Community meeting last night featuring Manassas City Police Chief Skinner. According to Skinner, at least 40 people were let go from ICE only to reappear in the community to be re-arrested.

He said his focus and the focus of the police department is NOT illegal immigration and never will be. Their focus is on community safety. He also indicated that 287g HAS put a strain on the City’s budget as it has done in PWC.

Furthermore, someone reported a Manassas City Councilwoman said last year that Manassas Park will NOT engage in the ethnic cleansing as seen in PWC. Yes, folks, she used the word.

The reality is that these children probably learned their hatred from someone close to them. They translated that fear and ignorance into action and hopefully they will be given a punishment that will help them learn tolerance, not just a punitive measure.

Pink, thanks for that report. That is very disturbing to learn that many people are back in the community. First we are told there are holes in the law so that we are having to turn criminals who happen to be illegal aliens back on the street. Now we are told that after spending millions on the 287(g) program we are still turning criminals loose rather than getting rid of them.

At this point, I don’t know what to believe.

The MP woman should not have used inflammatory language. I do not see the 287(g) program, whatever its pitfalls are, as an ethnic cleansing program. In fact, I find it very insulting that she said that.

Right. 287g isn’t ethnic cleansing, but the MCC woman wasn’t saying that according to what Pinko wrote. She was talking about everything that happened after we got 287g here. We got 287g and no one made a stink about it. No Human Rights commission, no Civil Rights commission, no 13 hour citizen times, no “we have to vote on this before the election” b.s. That’s because in order to be affected by 287g, you have to have done something criminal.

“Ethnic cleansing” is too strong of a word because it makes us think of war criminals of the worst order. But if the phrase had not already been in use, and did not have those connotations, one could put those two words together and accurately describe the purpose and the result of the Immigration Resolution.

None of this would have been possible, none of it would have been called for, and none of it would have been acted upon if there was not an ethnicity to be pinned on the “illegal” people designated for removal. If there are or were a heck of a lot of Canadian “illegals” running around in PWC, I wouldn’t know and I can’t imagine how anyone would have known.

Nope, nope, nope. We would have no “cleansing” here unless there were brown people to fear.

I’m sorry if it hurts to hear it, but it’s true.

I forgot to expand on the difference between 287g and the Immigration Resolution from a practical sense. Immigration law is civil law. It is a civil offense to overstay your visa. It is a civil offense to wait 6 years with your husband for you papers to come in, even though your student visa only lasted five.

Ordinarily, we wouldn’t want to put people in jail for civil offenses. One reason is we should save jail space for people who commit criminal offenses. Another reason is that the Immigration Resolution was written in a way that seemed to target ethnic people for this extra scrutiny, and it led to racial profiling a few times, and would have led to many more incidents if the law had not been changed in April.

That’s why most people are okay with 287g and not okay with the Immigration Resolution. Unconstitutional, baby. Unconstitutional, unfair, unjust, and, it would have led to costly law suits. Can you imagine 20 million dollars in legal fees on top of all the other mess the Immigration Resolution has created?

–Right. 287g isn’t ethnic cleansing, but the MCC woman wasn’t saying that according to what Pinko wrote. She was talking about everything that happened after we got 287g here.–

YES! She was referring to the original resolution, not 287g!

I’m glad she said it like it is, though. MH I know you and I disagree with that, but I think if we do NOT say it like that (bluntly) people are going to get apathetic and think it’s okay.

Pinko, where were you when that insane virtual street fight broke out on Saturday? 300 comments has to be a record. Curse words and insults flying. Innocent bystanders caught in the crossfire. Husbands coming to the rescue of wives. All because John Stirrup’s soul is possessed by Greg Letiecq. I love it!

M-h said:

“Are you really that myopic? Of course not. What do you think the cause of this stupidity is REALLY?”

As you can see M-h, most of your regulars are myopic. They all seem to agree with Slowpoke’s original contention.

Reading this stuff is like watching a train wreck.

Just a guess, but I don’t think Posting as Pinko would have helped to defuse the powder keg. I thought it was about John Stirrup’s failure to represent his community, but bottom line: a regular contributor to our blog went bananas.

Otherwise, nothing to see. Please disperse.

Stirrup does represent his community. His community is Caucasian people who are not yet comfortable with modern day Virginia, you know, the ones who don’t consider Northern Virginia the “real Virginia.” I don’t think we can blame the man for having a community that he feels comfortable with. That’s why he moved to PWC after all, to get away from those other people he doesn’t feel as comfortable with. The problem is that he represents me also. And this is the opposite of the community I want to belong to, even if they DID want me to be a part of them.

We are lacking in reading comprehension, ShellyB. Simply that.

I would think it’s safe to say that many were hopeful that the intent of 287(g) would result in ethnic cleansing.

The article I linked above advises that hate crimes are defined by the state. They actually use the example of vandelized cars. Here are some of the highlights of the article. Interpretation varies……

__________________________________________________________________________
When vandals sprayed a block of cars in Mastic with racist graffiti last week, Suffolk County police didn’t consider it a hate crime. But when anti-Semitic symbols were painted onto cars in Jericho in late October, Nassau County police counted it as a hate crime.

In the wake of the Patchogue killing of Ecuadorean immigrant Marcelo Lucero and the arrest of seven local teenagers charged in connection with the stabbing, immigrant activists accused Suffolk County’s Police Department of manipulating its statistics to show county hate crime on the decline, a charge police officials vehemently deny.

The difference between the two counties’ approaches to reporting hate crimes highlights the difficulty in tracking bias crime statistics across police jurisdictions. Despite a state law that stipulates the definition of a hate crime, local departments have wide latitude in interpreting what falls into the category.

“Trying to measure how much hate crime there is and to measure how widespread the problem is by statistics is a problem,” said Eugene O’Donnell, a professor of law and police studies at John Jay College of Criminal Justice, in Manhattan. “The law and the process leave a lot of room for varying interpretations.”

In counting hate crimes, Suffolk police adhere strictly to state law, which defines a hate crime as a criminal act against a specific person because of their “race, color, national origin, ancestry, gender, religion, religious practice, age, disability or sexual orientation,” said Det. Sgt. Robert Reecks, the commanding officer of the department’s eight-man bias crimes unit.

So when the Mastic vandals tagged dozens of cars with anti-black sentiments, police determined the graffiti was not targeted against a specific person. And because the paint easily washed off the cars, police did not even classify it as one of the 65 crimes covered by the state hate crimes law.

“If I don’t have permanent damage and if they’re not targeting an individual or a family, I have to look at that as disgusting, but not necessarily a hate crime,” Reecks said.

In Nassau, where police have reported increases in the number of hate crimes in each of the last three years, police Commissioner Lawrence Mulvey said the department counts any incident that could be reasonably considered a hate crime. Had the Mastic incident occurred in Nassau, he said, it would have been counted as a hate crime.

“We will classify something as a hate crime if there’s any inkling it is a hate crime,” Mulvey said. “Our posture is to be overly aggressive and overly sensitive.”

A New York Police Department spokesman said the department abides by the state hate crimes law, but declined to elaborate about its interpretation.

Part of the problem with putting weight into any hate crimes statistics, hate crime experts and immigrant advocates say, is that people who are victims of hate crime are less likely to report it to police than victims of other types of crimes. A 2005 FBI report concluded that for every hate crime reported to police, 15 more go unreported.

In Suffolk, where county Executive Steve Levy has built a national reputation on his hard-line policies against illegal immigration that have inflamed local Hispanic leaders, the number of anti-Hispanic hate crimes reported by police has dropped 93 percent in four years – from 15 in 2004 to one in 2007.

Suffolk Police Commissioner Richard Dormer attributed the drop specifically to Levy’s “outreach” to Hispanic communities.

“I think that our outreach to the community is working,” Dormer said. “Steve Levy has been very, very active in reaching out to minority communities.”

But Patrick Young, the program director of the Central American Refugee Center in Hempstead, was not so quick to praise Levy’s efforts in Hispanic communities. He said relations between immigrant communities and Suffolk police have deteriorated since Levy took office in 2004.

“If the number of rapes dropped 95 percent,” Young said, “would we assume the number of rapes had dropped off, or would we assume women stopped reporting them?”

Even Reecks said the county’s statistic is not credible.

“I would be lying if I told you hate crimes against Hispanics disappeared in Suffolk County,” he said. “But I can’t predict the unpredictable. If someone is telling me I have 25 reported hate crimes, how do I know?”

==Pinko, where were you when that insane virtual street fight broke out on Saturday? 300 comments has to be a record. Curse words and insults flying. Innocent bystanders caught in the crossfire. Husbands coming to the rescue of wives. All because John Stirrup’s soul is possessed by Greg Letiecq. I love it!===

LOL! Yeah, I saw that.

I left the building. My last comment was “I’m not going to bother anyone any more” and then the blog went NUTS! Guess I missed all the fun, eh?

As for Stirrup, what he doesn’t understand is that PWC is NOT some little white community he wants. Only part of PWC are like that and he cannot inflict his little fantasy on everyone!

–Just a guess, but I don’t think Posting as Pinko would have helped to defuse the powder keg. –

I left before it blew, Shelly. I have my own way of saying things and I will defend that right, but it’s not my intent to blow anything up.

Juturna, thanks for posting that. It’s really troubling that the reporting of hate crimes against Latinos is down in those “crack down” areas, while the incidents of hate crimes against Latinos are skyrocketing nationally. What that means is that hate crimes against Latinos in the “crack down” areas are actually up (perhaps even more than the national average is up), but the victims are afraid to report it.

This is another way in which a severing of the relationship between police and the Latino community leads to more crime, not less.

Pinko, after the AWC meltdown over the weekend, I don’t think anyone will be able to accuse you of blowing things up. Some may not like your word choice, but you never sound paranoid and attack everyone who posts, even those who are trying to help you.

Why is it that some people are so intimidated by the existence of hate crimes, and so quick to dismiss or disparage anyone who is concerned about them? I understand the logic, but it is pretty dumb I mean c’mon: “Racism is perceived as being a white people thing [an inaccurate perception]. I am white. Therefor hate crime reflects on me. [wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong!]”

Hate crimes can be committed by anyone. Hate crime statistic are important because they are a temperature gauge for the worst kind of violence, the eye-for-an-eye kind, and the kind that can spread into an epidemic. This is a serious matter, not something to dismiss, and it is not a knock against white people.

It is, I think, a knock against politicians and TV and radio personalities who exploit racial tension. Let’s face it, hate crimes vs. Latinos are way up in the past two years, despite the fact that in many places they are under-reported. It is a reasonable connection to make between political exploitation of racial tension, and the recent rash of hate crimes toward (surprise, surprise) the same group that is targeted in political campaigns and TV/radio broadcasts.

I think it’s reasonable anyway. Perhaps others don’t and that’s why the object to any and all discussion of hate crime statistics.

Posting as Pinko,

Since there is a name recognition with you and certain others are mad at you, I have a feeling that if you had come in and contradicted AWC, then the insanity would have grown, no matter what you tried to say. I tried to tell AWC no one was attacking her personally and she should calm down, and I tried to tell others that it was unfair to gang up on her, and for my trouble I got called a bitch and an idiot by AWC and her husband!

I am a Pinko fan. Have been since day one.

Whether kids are purposely committing a hate crime, imitating something they’ve seen or just being stupid, they need to know the impact of their actions. I would think that good police officers/judges can distinguish among the lot and deterime their intent. It needs to be addressed at the appropriate level or degree of intent.

I think it is very hard to figure out if a crime meets certain criteria regarding intent. Unless it can be proven absolutely enhancing the punishment is never the right thing to do.

I am a fan of Pinko and everyone here. This blog is a real service to the community. No one needs to have a nervous breakdown over who’s right and who’s wrong though. I’m sorry if saying Posting as Pinko wouldn’t have helped seemed like a criticism. No one could have helped as I found out!

Hey, well I am feeling the love! Thanks! Wasn’t feeling it a few days ago for sure! LOL!

OMG, AW’s HUSBAND attacked you??? What the hell?

Shelly you are right. I get into this thing where I try to explain and try to explain and all it does is make people want to keep coming back at you. I don’t know why that is. I always hope logic will kick in, but with some people, it just never does. They can’t seem to say, “We disagree. Okay.”

This is a blog. When it gets that bad, it’s time to WALK AWAY.

And yes, there are three or four people (not all on Anti) that have a personal vendetta against me. Most of you know whose these people are as well as I do. Personally, I think it’s a waste of their energy. God. Who wants to spend all that time hating someone for….you know, I don’t even KNOW what reason. Waste of energy as well.

Alanna, Elena, and MH, I give you a LOT of credit for keeping up with this. Moderating a blog with volatile people is NOT fun in my book. You really ARE doing a service. Hope you have tylenol on your desks!

Jut, you’re so reasonable and so right about trying to figure out intentions. I think they call it a hate crime if it’s directed at a specific population, no matter what the intent. I doubt “Well we were just kidding around” ever holds up in court.

==Some may not like your word choice, but you never sound paranoid and attack everyone who posts, even those who are trying to help you.==

NGL, I really thing AWC’s lack of sleep and not feeling well were making it worse for her and everyone else. I’ve been down that road and if I realize I’m taking it out on the rest of the world, I try to shut the computer down and just sleep it off. Lack of sleep can make you paranoid all by itself!

I like AWC and everyone else too and so on and so on. ( reminds me of this commercial)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgDxWNV4wWY

Everyone needs to stop and step back for just a second and ADMIRE ALL of us for sticking to our grounds or learning something NEW. SLEEP or not,drunk or not,this blog or that one and so on and so on.

DISCLAIMER: assholes have no excuse they have a PURPOSE LOL

The sh#t the other day reminded me of a song: LOL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okHIj_Kyl5M

Someone had to invent the term SH%t happens and got a giggle in the movie Forrest Gump and I tried to find that video -no luck but I understand what I am talking about LOL peace. Let’s talk about something else, start a new thread.

RD

I forgot about this video…this sums it up, LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54Q_nbw2Xvo

Let’s talk about how much time we think RD spends on YouTube. It will be like “Guess how many jelly beans are in this jar”?

RD, are you up for it?

RD / Yoo Hoo, you are amazing. Just amazing that commercials like that are still in your head from the late 70’s. On the other hand, when I saw that Fabreshe commercial I realized it was in my head too, but I had no idea it was still there, it was WAY WAY back there in the very very back of my mind! I had no idea is was in there and yet you pull things up like some sort of random access computer. How do you do it?

Posting as Pinko, I think she looks for the random videos after she gets the random thought. And YouTube is so massive that just about anything you look for is findable.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RD up for auction, just give the donations to SERVE or something of the sorts:)
xoxox

I don’t spend that much time on youtube as you would think. I just relate things in life with QUICK WIT in everyday life that people can relate too via a movie or song(the MARKETING has been done for FREE, LOL!)

Hit it! LOL!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3F-Rsx4o7TA

ShellyB wins with her comment @ 19:20!!!! EXACTLY!!!

NOW we need a REAL contest with real benefits?!!???

Just wanted to make a clarification about this statement. “Furthermore, someone reported a Manassas City Councilwoman said last year that Manassas Park will NOT engage in the ethnic cleansing as seen in PWC. Yes, folks, she used the word.”

There are no women on the Manassas City Council. The woman who made the statement about the ethnic cleansing must be a Manassas Park City Councilwoman.

I’m going to be very frank here, ladies and gentlemen. I do not mean to offend anyone with my post to follow. However, I’m sure I’ll catch some hell. That’s fine. I’ve taken crap from both sides a time or two, because that’s what happens when you are in the middle.

Anyways, I can NOT for the life of me figure why this past weekends “happenings” on the blog are still being discussed. I started out on that dreadful thread clearly stating I had very mixed feelings, and continue to do so. However, by the end of the thread I still had mixed feelings, but for very different reasons than that of the topic of the thread.

I know that we all have very strong personalities in many cases. This is sure to lead to spirited debate, and that’s great. All sides/voices do need to be heard on this blog. However, the personal attacks and constant come backs, and antagonizing is uncalled for.

I’m very disappointed in those that chose to ignore several serious pleas by Moon-howler and myself, to just stop the bickering, move on, and check out some other thread. However, we were disrespected to some degree. Not a soul considered our requests a single time. Oh, JustinT did refer to ShellyB and me as “peacemakers”. I have to laugh at the one, that’s one thing I don’t recall being called ever.

I think it’s fairly safe to say not everyone knows everyone on this blog off the blog. I mean we often times only see the “blog side” of a person, and only know that SINGLE side of them. The truth is we are all human beings, and the human factor gets left out way to often. You have to remember we as humans are multi-faceted, and there’s much more to each and everyone of us than any blog. We don’t know what everyone’s got going on in their personal lives, their health, and other concerns one might be faced with on any given day. Therefore, why not consider that before jumping on someone’s back.

I saw many people wanting to be winners on that thread, and there weren’t any winners in my “own two eyes”. Anti is supposed to be the opposite of something, and what I saw over the weekend was the mirror image. I thought this was the place where all voices would be welcomed and we would not bombard those with differing opinions.

I truly wish all would consider what I’m saying. This has gone on way to long, and it’s time to put it rest once and for all.

–RD up for auction, just give the donations to SERVE or something of the sorts:)
xoxox–

What a great idea! Anti, want to set up a PaypPal account or something?

Marie, you are correct about the Councilwoman. I always screw those cities up. “It’s all the same to me.”

Marie, ( @ 19:33)
With no disrespect!!!!!! SEE this is where I think EVERYONE is being PLAYED a FOOL.
BY time you get a round to the he said she said BS and then after/before argue those points… THE BEGINNING, they are already on to the next subject and the damage has been done.

What happened to SPANKING our kids? OHHHHH yeah, that’s right,it can be held AGAINST the parent(s) as abuse and the kid(s) KNOW it and win(s)!!! LOL!!!!To get back on topic …(18-CONSIDERED to be an ADULT-yeah right, HOW many of you/us parents could not wait until we were no longer responsible that see/saw the age of 18 as a RELIEF?! HOW many divorces has one been in or know of someone BEFORE the age of 30/35?) would consider such an act drugs/drinking or not)-whooo-hooo, we ALL couldn’t WAIT for those days now could we?

Just thinking…LOL

Chris, honestly I was upset with your comment that I should stop using the word “racist” and get the “hint.” I felt it was a BVBL censoring/bullying kind of thing. I understand why MH doesn’t use the word, but I understand why I DO and I am not the only one. I cannot stop using words I think best describe the situation. Thus, I was upset because I felt attacked, censored, and really, hurt that this was not the open forum I thought it was.

Obviously, as 300 postings later proved (in which I removed myself from the debate entirely), everyone was having a bad day and MH was having a hell of a time trying to calm people down. Here’s what I have learned—you can’t really calm people down on a blog if they have lost control. The more you try, the worse it gets. That’s why I took a sabbatical. People seem to be back in better spirits now.

You are right that we don’t know one another (you and I have never met), and the Internet is notorious for de-personalizing. We get images of who we think people are but that’s not the full picture as you point out (I’ve blogged on this issue a lot because I find it interesting the way identity gets more complex through writing).

If you ever heard me throwing a fit, you would “hear” the tone of voice I have here. My version of throwing fits means I use strong words but let’s put it this way….my dogs don’t even listen to me When I scream at the kids, they hardly know they are being yelled at. This is odd to me, because I always think I’m being loud. But I’ve noticed when I actually “yell” to someone (as in trying to get their attention at a distance) they never hear me! Go figure.

Anyway, I AM a firm believer in using words I think best fit the situation. I look up definitions and word histories constantly. Usage is important to me (though I am far from a perfect editor). Words aren’t always gently, however, and neither are we.

Sorry, I see I was at crossroad in thought between this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVxdkPc0puw

and this one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CRouGJq_M0
LOL!!

Pay pal works Pinko!
For EVERY disagreement or cuss word or something like that..:) I do NOT belong on blogs or any written forum..:)

I give MH BIG BIG credit. She did what she thought she should do. And that’s all that counts. Doing the right thing for the right reason. Even though we had a spat.

In most cases, relationships with the objective of learning and lasting benefit from spats. Those that don’t – well there probably wasn’t any intention of developing anything more than something one sided.

I am all for healthy spats and good yellin’ – I am also for being able to laugh at myself and admit when I am wrong. It’s called LIFE, folks. And this IS a blog!

PAP.

I’m all for one using words they see fit, and that’s most certainly your right. My point was not to “censor” your use, but it does get people riled up. I personally have been called a racist in many forms(person, email, blogs, etc.), and some of the least likely suspects have apologized to my face. I will NOT call out these individuals by name. There apologies were sincere and heart-felt. The word racist in and of itself is controversial, and “fan some flames”. We don’t need that right now, that’s all I’m trying to express. I’m far from a wordssmith.

I have to tell you I have a voice that carries, and some might say I talk loud.

I only posted in hopes that everyone might think about what a said, even if just for a second.

–And this IS a blog!–

LOL! AMEN, Jut! When we start taking blogs TOOOOO seriously, it really IS time to take a break.

As my Dad would say, “30 million people in China really don’t give a damn.”

PAP – LOL

Honestly, only white people would support something like 287g. It’s only white people who actually believe that cops don’t make blatant false arrests. It’s only white people who think cops won’t get up on the witness stand and lie through their teeth. And no matter how many times people of color tell them it’s common, no matter how many videos surface exposing it as common, these white people cannot hear for they will not hear. It’s much more comfortable to live in denial.

On the streets, the law is not what is written on the books. The law is whatever ‘they’ say it is. And there’s some laws you won’t find in a legal dictionary. You discover them the hard way.

If white people had to worry about having the light of their life placed into a gang database for life without due process, they might begin to understand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NI_XzDleIfo&feature=related

The only good thing about the rising police state in our nation is that finally some overprivileged white people are starting to feel what it’s like to be at the mercy of injustice. When I hear of these kinds of cases, I applaud with savage glee and apologize for nothing. You made your own bed, now lie in it.

Chris, I never thought you were a racist. Why? Because you left HSM. I’m not saying everyone in HSM is a racist. What I will maintain, however, is that HSM is a racist ORGANIZATION. People who don’t support racism should leave, as you did, IMHO. You are a role model in that way.

I also have never seen you post ANYTHING racist here ever. You stick to the topic without going down “taco ave.”

I don’t think there is anything wrong with being angry about illegal immigration, neighborhood issues, or the government. I DO think there is something wrong with behaviours we have seen on BVBL, in HSM, via GL/RD/JS/CS etc.

Off the topic, I’ve been told time and time again that I DO laugh loudly! I don’t think that’s such a bad thing

Chris, it’s ALL GOOD!

I have learned to BEND not break

We ALL want to have the last word. WHO can blame us/everyone? It is the INTENT/the HEART that matters:)
I just got done praising ALL sides for standing tall with the conviction to continue.

Fight on! It’s a BLOG! LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwTcBJ4YZQI

Mackie, to some extent, I think the racial majority is more likely to agree with whatever people in their majority agree to do. That’s not just a “white” thing. It’s a “privilege” thing and a groupthink thing. Typically, if the majority has a government, that government will work in its favor because the numbers are there and because people like to nod their heads in agreement. It’s easier.

Now this isn’t always the case, as we saw in apartheid. But it’s certainly true in this country, especially when we have a history of racial division.

I won’t even bring in socioeconomics because that’s where this whole thing gets more confusing. Sometimes I think socioeconomics transcends race in terms of issues we see here and everywhere else. But only sometimes…clearly there are racial issues in this county that are unresolved.

Incidentally, I’m wondering if you are “white” Mackie. I’m just curious because first, some “white” people do realize they have more power because they are in the majority. Conversely, some people who are not white realize they might be at a disadvantage because of that. Then there are “white looking” people like me who NEVER felt empowered because we’ve been beaten down by the system. I’m lucky that I’m so stubborn, I just keep getting up.

Personally, I’m going to go harlequin and just watch as everyone stares…

I did not catch the discussion of “racist” usage, Chris and Pinko, but this is a similar issue to what I mentioned about hate crimes above. For some reason, people are way too personally invested in policy ideas like the Immigration Resolution. I think that you can certainly refer to the Immigration Resolution as rooted in racism. I have done so, and so have most people who have no personal dogs in the fight (like they are on record supporting it at a time when maybe they were affected by the prevailing atmosphere).

While a person who advocated for the Immigration Resolution should not be called a racist (not if you want to be polite and civil), I think it is fair to refer to the Immigration Resolution as rooted in racism. It was, after all, a law that required Police to use “probable cause” to determine if someone looked illegal or not. And, if there was not a specific population that “looked illegal” to a good number of PWC residents, there is nothing, I repeat NOTHING, to trigger the whole disastrous ordeal. A sudden surge of Swedish immigrants would not have done the trick.

If we could only remove the pejorative nature of the word “racism” (an impossible thing I know) I think we could get a lot further in these discussions. Everyone is capable of racism, and everyone is guilty most likely. The problem for people like me and Pinko came when we started to institutionalize racism into our laws. That’s a problem, and it needed to be addressed, and it WAS addressed on April 29th, 2008. If we took the concept of racism out of our consciousnesses, we never could have achieved the change in the law. Why? Because we wouldn’t have realized the law was unconstitutional and destined to land us in court.

So, the idea of “racism” was very helpful to our county. It motivated citizens to speak out. And citizens speaking out gave the Supervisors the political cover to make the right decision and change the law.

Whether or not people get their feelings hurt every time they hear the word “racism” is another matter, a much smaller matter. But if we want to avoid situations like what happened over the weekend, perhaps we should try to separate the idea of “racism” from the accusation that someone with a particular point of view is a racist.

Toward that end, I apologize for at times implying that certain politicians and their political advisers are racists. I am not sure about this everlasting debate about racism vs. political opportunism when it comes to those individuals. But I will bear in mind that next time I discuss it, there may be people reading this blog who feel personally attacked every time they see or hear the word “racism.”

PAP, I’m not sure what the point is of your apologetic argument.

Looking the other way…is still looking the other way. The fact that it’s easy to do means nothing.

NGL, I agree with everything you said, and you said it so very well!!

The only thing I balk at is this: “Toward that end, I apologize for at times implying that certain politicians and their political advisers are racists.”

I don’t apologize for that. When it comes to our political and civic leaders, if you promote racism even if you are not racist yourself you are just as guilty. This is my perception, of course. I also think people who walk away while someone is being mugged are almost as guilty as the muggers.

Mackie, I’m not trying to look the other way. I’m just analyzing what you are saying and wondering if I am understanding you.

I really doubt that Mackie is White. I know a lot of Black people who think like Mackie about law enforcement. I do not agree with Mackie’s high level of skepticism, even rage, toward law enforcement. I do realize there is a lot of injustice, but I also feel like 99 percent of people in law enforcement are doing their best in the name of justice. And, when I read a post like the one Mackie dropped above, I worry that White people will be offended.

That said, Mackie did raise a good point. All those of us who have expressed support for 287g do so without thinking about the fact that we have not yet reached the point where justice is metered out equally to all Americans (just ask the gay community in California). There have been innocent people put to death by state governments in this country. So law enforcement is not perfect. But if you let that fact stop you from enforcing any laws at all, I don’t see how that makes for a more perfect union. So, even though Mackie reminds me that there are often miscarriages of justice, and that often racism is involved, I still feel like I can live with 287g in our jails. And I say that knowing that it leads to some injustice.

A better version of 287g would be that only major felonies would cause someone to get reported to ICE. But we basically have that anyway since the low level criminals are all let go by ICE. I mean, I assume those are the ones they let go. Which brings us back to the biggest reason why the Immigration Resolution has been a huge failure for PWC. We pay millions of dollars so we catch more people who are undocumented, they get turned in to ICE, and ICE lets them go. Not worth it.

Well, Pinko, you’re right I guess. I can’t say I didn’t mean it when I said Stewart, Stirrup, and Letiecq are probably racists. But I can still be sorry that I hurt people’s feelings. Believe it or not, I even care about the feelings of those three people.

Mackie, don’t be mad at me. I’m working out all these thoughts as I type them and I know you might be unhappy with my willingness to compromise on principles like equal justice. I am struggling with the challenges you present to us.

But you do realize that if you make blanket statements about White people at the top of your post, almost everyone else will dismiss what you are saying as “reverse racism.” You may or may not want that. But that’s what is happening. We are all in the spirit of making things less abrasive here so I thought I’d say that even as I acknowledge that your points get through to me.

Considering some ridiculous number of African Americans are incarcerated for drugs and never get their voting rights back (something like 4-5% of VA’s population), I can see how anyone would think there is tremendous racism in law enforcement. And we DO see racists in law enforcement acting out–I will use Jackson Miller as a prime example (and I have no problem calling him racist either). You can’t tell me that man is capable of making unbiased, fair calls. He’d be the first one to bring someone in for “driving while speaking Spanish” IMO.

“Believe it or not, I even care about the feelings of those three people.”

I’m not sure they HAVE feelings. If they did, they wouldn’t act this way. They really don’t give a damn about other people IMO. We could make fun of their mothers and they probably would blow it off. At least that’s the image they portray. If they acted like human beings, I might feel otherwise.

NGL,

And, when I read a post like the one Mackie dropped above, I worry that White people will be offended.

So people of color are supposed to care about over privileged white people being reminded of their own stupidity? When that stupidity leads them to act like an giant child in a sandbox, smashing smaller children to death, exposing the stupidity is a public service.

If I was grinding my boot into your neck and saying it was a good thing and I didn’t notice how painful it was to you until you reached up and punched me in the balls to get my attention, I hardly think the offense against my reproductive organs would be unwarranted.

There have been innocent people put to death by state governments in this country. So law enforcement is not perfect. But if you let that fact stop you from enforcing any laws at all, I don’t see how that makes for a more perfect union. So, even though Mackie reminds me that there are often miscarriages of justice, and that often racism is involved, I still feel like I can live with 287g in our jails. And I say that knowing that it leads to some injustice.

May the police state rise. May it consume you and those you love.

Wow, Mackie. You have some rage going on there. I think sometimes rage can help. Other times, it just eats at you like acid until you rot away, though.

PAP,
Many felons of ALL races don’t bother to try to get their voting rights reinstated. Now, that is only their fault for NOT doing so.

NotGL,
You and PAP as I said before are entitled to use the term. Neither one of you need to apology to anyone for how you view things. Let’s not forget “perception is reality”, eh?

I just felt like I was back on the other blog, and that was unsettling to me. My perception, ya know? I would hate to leave this blog for the reasons I left the other, but if it comes to that, so be it. I will live to see another day. My post was NOT directed any person(s) in particular, just my assessment for what it was worth.

–Many felons of ALL races don’t bother to try to get their voting rights reinstated. –

VA and only one other state has the most oppressive system for getting voting rights back. Outside of a ton of paperwork, the only person who can give them back voting rights is the governor. Some governors have given back fewer than 500 rights in an entire term! It’s not as easy as you think and when people are re-entering, they’ve lost the information or are struggling so much they can’t get it together. 4-5% of an entire population makes or breaks an election for sure.

If you move to other states, once you get out of jail and pay your fines, you automatically get your rights back. VA is REALLY bad this way.

I didn’t realize Virginia was so restrictive. Thanks for the information. I must I don’t feel all should be given their voting rights back.

Less the 500 in a term, wow? Do you have any idea how many applied and turned down?

I’d have to look it up. The League of Women Voters did a whole study on it. Let me see if I can find the link.

VA and KY are the worst states for this.

Here’s some info:

In Virginia, only the Governor can restore voting rights. The Constitution of Virginia,
Article II, Section I states: “No person who has been convicted of a felony shall be qualified to vote unless his civil rights have been restored by the governor or other appropriate authority.” All applications are sent to the office of the Secretary of the Commonwealth for processing. An application can be filed through the Circuit Court, but this is an exceptional route. The number of felons who have had their voting rights restored by any one governor has varied greatly. For example: Gov. Robb restored rights to1,180; Gov. Allen, to 480; Gov. Gilmore, to 238; Gov. Warner, to 3,486 and Gov. Kaine, to 878 during his first 15 months in office.

Nearly 300,000 Virginia citizens, representing 4-5% of Virginia citizens who are age 18
or older, are unable to vote because of a felony conviction, despite having completed their sentences and been released from probation or parole. About half of these citizens are African- American. As many as one in every six African-American men in Virginia cannot register to vote for this reason.

The whole study is here:
http://www.lwvalex.org/Frlons%20Rights%20study_materials.pdf

We’re actually supposed to have a meeting on this topic tomorrow if it doesn’t snow!

Big Mack,

“So people of color are supposed to care about over privileged white people being reminded of their own stupidity? When that stupidity leads them to act like an giant child in a sandbox, smashing smaller children to death, exposing the stupidity is a public service.”

I am WHITE and I think of you as a friend that has opened my eyes.I thank you and have thanked you for ding that. I just don’t get the WHITE sh#t.

Are you drinking too? At one point it was cheaper than gas and I got an email alert to drink and not drive? LOL

–I don’t feel all should be given their voting rights back.–

I don’t think really violent criminals should. But those people usually stay in jail for a long time anyway.

It’s these drug convictions that kill me. Okay. Drugs are BAD. We don’t want them on our streets or anywhere else. But if someone cleans up and is trying to make a new start, why put them through hell trying to vote? It just makes them feel like permanent outcasts.

Anyway, per usual, I am WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY off topic!!! RD, pour me purple knee-hie.

Make it a “grape knee-hie.”

PAP,
I have no problem with some getting their rights back, just not all. Certainly violent criminals and perverts should NOT be given back their rights, and those young adults that commit “lesser crimes”. I the degree of the felony and one’s age should be considered. I do believe people can “start over”, and if they’ve proven themselves and paid their debt to society then consider them.

Thank you for that link it was quite informative. I also liked the “glossary” portion.

Corr: I meant to say and those young adults that commit “lesser crimes”, should be considered to get their voting rights back.
sorry for the confusion.

Yoo Hoo, do you ever play that game where they give you a word and you have to sing a song with that word? I think you’d be very good at it. Quick: give me 10 song lyrics that have the word “forgiveness” in it!

first one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLgUuHl2xJo

Thanks for all the info Posting as Pinko. I had no idea there were 300,000 Virginians barred from voting because of this law. One in six African American men is really a travesty. We now have our second consecutive President who has experimented with drugs. We have a seven time convicted felon sitting in the United States Senate! And we can’t let someone vote if they have a single drug conviction?

By the way that was fair and I take it as a challenge and my computer froze up

second one :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_izOLbftmVo

This is A hard one!( not random-personalizing songs I have heard)

Here is another, how many is that?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ul3mxG1-Qs

Pinko,

YOU pour me a drink! LOL- Knee-hi, purple or pink who gives a shi…….LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01KQfcSCRbw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t38xiN8AFSM

how many is that?

I lost the challenge. I cannot pick 10! Bummer.

YooHoo, I can’t see the videos right now but did you have “Hold Me Now” by The Thopson Twins on your list?

The fruit of white privilege.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZYH8EsJmJ4

Just wondering…what is the point of releasing a person back into society when they will no longer have a voice? They will most likely be permanently marked as criminal, and have a tough time finding a job. This will already make their lives harder and more frustrating…thus they may be more likely to commit another crime. However, I fully understand why employers should know the criminal records of employees. This has a reason.

I want to understand the logic of taking voting rights away from criminals who have done their time. What is the purpose of it? Criminals will not REALLY be starting over, given all the other ways they are permanently marked in society, so is it just an extra, tangential smack on the hand? Is it meant to be a deterrent (I don’t think that’s logical)? Are we saying that once you commit a crime and do your time, you are no longer REALLY a citizen of the United States? Are we afraid that the criminal element may rule us all?

I think it is a good thing that we examine this. I’m going to go off and do some research today.

Chris I know what you are saying. That’s what the LWV meeting is about today–reaching a consensus on who feels what. The National Leagues take all the info from the smaller ones across the country and that’s how they establish their position.

DG, I know. It’s pretty pathetic. There are what they call “re-entry” programs, but there aren’t enough of them. Sad to say, if you have done time, especially in VA, they consider you a felon for life. Ex-felons will NEVER be called “ex-cons” or “ex-felons” in the state of VA. In the eyes and status of VA, a felon is ALWAYS a felon, even after he/she has paid off a debt to society. I’ve very much anti-crime, but this system is anti-people and counterproductive IMO.

It’s just a few bad apples!

It’s not systematic racism no matter how much proof there is!

All that stuff ended in the 60s!

287g won’t lead to false arrests!

Up is down!
Black is white!
War is peace!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcanTRJjDAI

Mackie,
Do you ever have anything positive to say?

You misunderstand. Most white people are relatively infantile in their understanding of racism.

DiversityGal, my understanding is that the disenfranchisement practices toward those convicted of felonies was instituted shortly after Emancipation. This is the time line in Florida anyway. At a time when law enforcement truly was racist, I mean the norm and not the exception, it was an effective way to neutralize the African American voting base.

It is also my understanding that this practice came quite handy in the 2000 election, when Florida Secretary of State (and later Congresswoman) Katherine Harris used the law to disenfranchise tens of thousands of African Americans who HAD NOT committed any crime, but were related to or had similar names to individuals who had. The Republican party of Florida, you may recall, was most pleased to win that state for their greatest President of all time, George W. Bush, by some 500 votes, maybe. Forget about the hanging chad, the election was decided when Kathleen Harris hired a Republican law firm to scrub African Americans off the voting rolls. Latinos were not similarly targeted because in Florida, at the time, they were more likely to vote Republican. African Americans were especially targeted because the governor at the time, Jeb Bush, was considered to have betrayed the African American community by breaking campaign promises. Harris knew that the more African Americans voted in 2000, the less chance her candidate would have to win (in addition to being Florida Secretary of State, Harris was also George W. Bush’s Florida campaign chair).

When the Republican law firm returned to Kathleen Harris’ office having found only a thousand people in the entire state of Florida who were registered to vote and had since committed a felony, Harris’ office told them she was looking for a much larger number, “a wider net” is the famous quote. They suggested that the loosen the standards, so that the names do not have to match exactly in order to take someone off the voting rolls; they only need to match the last name and first initial, for instance.

Officials with the Republican law firm testified before Congress that they warned Kathleen Harris’ office that if they used a wider net that a great number of people who had done nothing wrong would lose their right to vote. Harris’ office said, “We want the widest possible net.”

On election day, tens of thousands of African Americans were turned away from the polls after being told their voting rights had been stripped. Thus, we had the honor and good fortune of President George W. Bush, because some people know better what our country needs than the voting electorate.

So to answer your question, DG, there was a very good reason for putting this law on the books, but not a very good reason for keeping it.

Mackie, you are a racist….reread your comments above and imagine if a white person wrote those exact words regarding a Hispanic person or any person of color…”Honestly, only white people would support something like 287g. It’s only white people who actually believe that cops don’t make blatant false arrests. It’s only white people who think cops won’t get up on the witness stand and lie”. Or “So people of color are supposed to care about over privileged white people being reminded of their own stupidity?” Or even this which you wrote “Most white people are relatively infantile in their understanding of racism.” If a white person wrote those comments about a person of color, they’d be blistered on this blog, but the sad thing is you seem to get a pass for childish, racist and nasty remarks. Talk about painting an entire race with one small mind and a broad brush.

Suppose I commented that Hispanics that are illegally here are relatively infantile in their understanding of national borders? Would that be ok? I just changed the race and inserted an opinion some people have (just like you have your opinions)into your comments. Is this comment still ok now?

I am not sure of what rambling rage has consumed you, but you fight a battle you will never win. As bad as the anti Hispanic racism is, you sir, are living proof that racism exists inside the Hispanic community. Sadly, it exists in all colors as evidenced by your diatribes.

You’ve already been outed on this blog as stretching your “facts” without support and seems you are doing it once again. If you want equality, then act like it and treat others as equals. If you want division, keep writing that race baiting commentary you seem to add to every thread, no matter the topic. No mas.

–Most white people are relatively infantile in their understanding of racism.–

Mackie, what do you mean by that? Quantify and site some stats or something.

Maybe Mackie is a hate bunny in disguise.

Off the wall comment here but do you think we could get PWC a bailout? The people that wasted our money in the county (read Stirrup and Stewart and their CLAN) are just as corrupt as those on Capitol Hill and Wall Street, so it seems to me we should qualify.

Pinko, I’ll admit that I have at times wondered if Mackie is another “Hate Bunny” impostor trying to make us all look bad. And Lucky Duck, I agree with you that the same statements would immediately be tagged as racist if they were directed at a minority group (which means they are racist and we just have a limited way of seeing racism because of this country’s demographics and history). Mackie, I don’t want to attack you, but your statements are not so cool. I share some of your frustration and sorrow, but I could argue all the same points without making such blanket statements.

Back to Pinko’s concern, I do question the timing, so soon after the AWCheney melt down, that Mackie is doing his best to attract attention for party fouls of his own. But the difference is that Mackie has a history of making statements like this, and AWCheney (as far as I recall) did not.

And, if Mackie really is a Hate Bunny in disguise, they all need to figure out that in a non-censored blog, you really can’t hold the admin’s accountable for everything that gets said. Gospel Greg’s blog was impeached and dismissed when the world found out that he was censoring dissenting opinions. This pointed the finger at him for all of the vile bigotry that could be found there. He was censoring some people but not others, which means he was down with the bigotry. Get it?

“You misunderstand. Most white people are relatively infantile in their understanding of racism.”

This is a racist statement. Sorry.

Generalizing, stereotyping and being prejudiced towards any ethnic group is just plain wrong.

Even white people.

Good manners demand I wait my turn at door of the slaughterhouse.

But I screamed before the blade fell, and broke the workman’s bloody rhythm.

So I’m quickly hustled to the front of the line.

Mackie,
Will that cheese you’ll be having with whine, be made from you udders?
MoooOOO!

obviously Mackie is an HSM plant

either the mastermind GL or maybe the diabolical Duecaster

scary

Rackie, go on back over to the dark screen and tell them all about it. The scales have fallen from my eyes. It has all become crystal clear. You are just a plant.

either that, or NGL is really GL and masterfully trying to cause major dissent

even scarier

Mando,
Why be scared? You are not alone. Maybe, the you and Mackie can cross pollenate.
Go back to bvbl and wave your stems there.

everyone should be scared… GL is an evil diabolical genius and the cause of all that is bad in PWC

his black tendrils of racist hatred know no bounds

be suspicious of EVERYONE!!!

be SCARED!!!

and BTW, Slither Hither looks a lot like HITLER! The NAZI!!!

something evil is afoot with Slither Hither I fear… another plant I suspect

what do you think pinko/NGL?

Slither Hither -> move some letters around/delete a few and you get Hitler

the NAZI

gotta be GL himself… jackboots and all

Mando,
I did forget to leave the sarcasm alert in my comment to you.

You might be onto something with your first sentence.

Slither not look like Hitler! He appears very much like his cousin, Jake.

Cuidado! Maybe he looks like GL.

Mando lied!! No Z, N, A. Just Hitler.

Geesh, I’ve never thought about playing Boggle with my name. Thanks, Mando.

“Maybe, the you and Mackie can cross pollenate.”

Another nail in your coffin. Himmler, THE NAZI, was in charge of some agricultural projects… including… cross pollination!

fess up

the anti’s have your number now

Mando,
Another nail in my coffin? WTF do you mean by that exactly?

it’s a figure of speech…

try google

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nail%20in%20the%20coffin

“nail in the coffin”

“Part of the phrase, “the last nail in the coffin” or “another nail in the coffin”. Equivalent to “the last straw”. A very old phrase.”

in other words, you have outed yourself as a HSM plant beyond any doubt due to your NAZI anagrams and verbiage

Mando,
I understand the phrase. I can’t understand why you would make that statement to me.

I could lie and give you the standard plant answer. I’ve never heard of this Greg Leteicq you speak or this group HSM.
I can assure I’m NOT an HSM member. I would rather gouge my eyes than be a kool aid drinking HSMer.

BTW-It’s been 30 years today, since Jim Jones gave all those poor faithful followers the deadly punch. What a horrible event.

GL is diabolical but he’s no genius.

Mando, you will be pleased to know I was writing an email to someone whose last name looks just like yours sans “M.” I accidentally addressed it to YOU!

Anybody catch this in the Post today?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/17/AR2008111702879.html

The majority of Americans want a path to citizenship as part of comprehensive immigration reform. The article compares European attitudes toward immigration with American attitudes, with a few surprises. Will someone be kind enough to find the actual statistics on which the article is based?

Slither, Old Mando is a leg puller from way back.

Diabolical indeed. El Diablo strikes again. I wonder if the Gentleman of the Hot Place will be putting in an official appearance at this year’s Manassas Christmas Parade again this year?

Will HSM be strapping on those jackboots and entering a float in the parade? That would be a good offset for the prancing diablos.

Slither (sLITHER) said:

“BTW-It’s been 30 years today, since Jim Jones gave all those poor faithful followers the deadly punch. What a horrible event.”

Hmmm… interesting trivia for you to bring up… GL!

Pinko said:

“GL is diabolical but he’s no genius.

Mando, you will be pleased to know I was writing an email to someone whose last name looks just like yours sans “M.” I accidentally addressed it to YOU!”

Mind control. I too could actually be GL using the dark side of the force to subconsciously corrupt your mind.

My mind was corrupted long before GL ever came into my life

Mando,
Here’s some more interesting trivia.

You would be on the “most wanted” list if Greg thought he was being unjustly accused of being me. Innocent until proven guilty, right?

Gee, Mackie never showed back up……. Hmm.

Excellent point, Juturna!

Ahhhh, Slither, how is your life as an undercover agent coming along? I like that….Hitler out of Slither. wowowowowow. Too bad you didn’t think of it first. That was pretty clever there, Mando.

I should have read back further. Mackie, what is your point in making racist statements against white people?

I have seen this ‘trick’ before. Some toad plants something nasty or distasteful on the blog, a black velvet comes along and does a copy and paste, makes a slide of it, and takes it to the BOCS meeting so one of the HSM ladies gets to play with the overhead projector and go ewwweeeeee ahheeeeee look how bad those antis are.

Juvenile, and also ineffective. Just hold on, I hear our resident cartoonist is hard at work. We should have some REAL material for you all real soon.

Whwn,

The brits have sort of a different set up than we do. Apparently the immigrants are getting all the govt health care and housing allowances. Remember that youtube immigration spoof based out of Great Britain? I will try to find it.

It amazes me that people just say ’send’ them home’ so easily. How on earth do you send 10 million people home? You and whose army? Send them home is just big-assing. It isn’t possible without violence. I do not consider that a viable option.

M H, Of course it’s viable. You just aren’t reading the right blogs site.

Ivan, that’s what I am afraid of! I don’t stray too far off the compound these days.

Gee Lucky, 138 comments here and yours focuses exclusively on me. Hmmm…

Got Agenda?

I know you’re an apologist for one of the most consistently racist institutions in history, so-called law enforcement, so surely you must be joking when you accuse others of racism.

If you actually meant what you wrote above, you sound like you’re suffering from a pathological deficiency in moral judgment.

Hmmmm… I detect a change in pattern.

Nice try Mackie. I commented on your statements because you made the most racist group of statements I have seen on this thread. You generalized about an entire race of people and back up nothing with facts. Wait, we determined that you made up facts and stretched the truth a long time ago didn’t we? And just like in those other threads, as always, you come back playing a victim. Grow up.

You are angry at the world and seem to lash out at anyone who apparently doesn’t look like you or think like you and truthfully, I got tired of it. If you harbor a perceived injustice to yourself or others, change it in a legitimate way. But introducing your racist anger on every thread is not the way. While I almost never agree with you – and that’s fine, thats what makes a debate, sometimes you have thought provoking ideas. Too bad they get lost in the moronic, thoughtless statements you make so often that others just ignore what you say. I can assure you I do not “joke about racism” as you put it.

I am an apologist for nobody. I alone am responsible for what I say and do and let those actions and words speak of me to others. You know nothing of my moral code so do not speak of what you do not know of.

Nice work Lucky. Spoken like a true apologist.

Gee, what did I do to warrant such attention above all other posters? Oh yeah, I’m the only one who actually pulls no punches when addressing the racism endemic in the farcical institution called law enforcement and the white privileged mentality that buttresses it.

I’m not surprised you would interpret my comments as racist considering that suits your predisposed agenda. It wouldn’t be the first time some boy in blue on the witness stand twisted the facts in order to get a conviction. Now would it? It happens all the time, especially if the defendant is black or brown.

Once again, I ask the same question I’ve asked so many times before, why does Lucky Ducky engage in cyber stalking me and only me? What is it that this individual wants? What is their goal? Why does he say “you made the most racist group of statements I have seen on this thread” when this is a clear misinterpretation of my words and one can clearly look at other threads and posters to find heinously racist screeds? Why does Lucky lie like this?

But then again, if those in law enforcement actually spent as much time and energy fighting racism as they do in attacking those who expose it, we might not be having this debate in the first place.

When the message threatens the powers that be, the default response of their well-trained apologists is always to discredit the messenger.

Mackie, many people found your comments about whites to be racist. Those who know me also know I rarely use that term. However…it was what it was. Lucky Duck does not cyber stalk you. Saying that sounds incredibly paranoid, especially after making such heinous remarks about one race of people. I know you didn’t learn this crap at the alma mater.

Trust me, most of the readership here was taken aback by your remarks.

Mackie, your comments and “facts” have been shown to be lies in the past, a dose of made up nonsense tinged with a personal agenda. I called on you repeatedly over the last few months (as others have too) to back up your statements with facts and you came back portraying yourself as a “victim” as you do yet again – without any support for what you claim.

If you are the only one, as you say, who “pulls no punches” than we as group are in trouble. You fabricate statements and pass them off as “facts”. You need a better education in life.

As for your comment about “cyber stalking” you, well, I could find a racist spewing fool on any blog in the cybersphere, so you are not that special as to take up my time.

Lucky Ducky,

I called on you repeatedly over the last few months

That’s pretty creepy. Could you please focus your attention on something or someone else. Your obsession with discrediting me is looking more and more like cyber stalking. It is a crime Lucky. You may not have crossed the line yet, but you’ve definitely established a precedent here. And considering that you are an official with public trust, it’s an even graver violation. Here is the definition:

the use of information and communications technology, particularly the Internet, by an individual or group of individuals, to harass another individual, group of individuals, or organization. The behavior includes false accusations, monitoring, the transmission of threats, identity theft, damage to data or equipment, the solicitation of minors for sexual purposes, and gathering information for harassment purposes. The harassment must be such that a reasonable person, in possession of the same information, would regard it as sufficient to cause another reasonable person distress.

Your posts are growing more and more shrill and irrational again. I saw this pattern from you before. You have stooped to personal insults in the following quotes which shows you have disturbingly become personally invested in discrediting me:

You need a better education in life…I could find a racist spewing fool on any blog in the cybersphere, so you are not that special as to take up my time

The comments directly above are completely unbecoming of one who has official authority in our community. As a public official, you should keep the public trust in mind and set a standard of conduct for others to emulate.

I’m becoming truly afraid now of what you might officially do to me if you should ever find out my identity.

Mackie, you have no idea what I do for a living, so please, do not make up that topic like you have made up so many others. If you feel so threatened, well, get a warrant. I’ll meet you in criminal court and then, after that is dismissed, I’ll meet you next in civil court for my turn.

Don’t play with the truth, you will not win.

Mackie,
There has been strong debate between you and Lucky, now and in the past. It makes me uncomfortable when I see posters threaten legal action. Michael, not long ago, also threatened legal action. You are anonymous as is Lucky Duck. No one can trace anyone from this blog, as the administrators are the only ones with access, and even at that, most posters use fake e-mail addresses and we all know IP addresses can be used my multiple people. I would appreciate it Mackie, if you would not threaten legal action to other posters. It is not my perception that Lucky is “stalking” you, but Lucky is challenging you on your premise. That is called healthy debate, you have been an excellent source of such discourse in the past, it’s just this time, the tables were turned on you. Once again, I am asking, please refrain from threatening legal action, it really has no place on this blog.

Elena,

You must have me confused with Lucky Ducky.

The words you wrote must have been meant for Lucky Ducky. I have not threatened legal action. Although I have tried to patiently explain over and over and over again to Lucky Ducky that his harassment (and that’s exactly what it is) is not appreciated. Especially since he holds a position of public trust. That’s inexcusable.

So you must have me confused with Lucky Ducky. At least that’s what I hope since you have a well-earned reputation of being fair.

The words you wrote must have been meant for Lucky Ducky. Because you see, and I hope you see, in the post directly above yours, whats plain to see:

I’ll meet you next in civil court for my turn.

So you must have me confused with Lucky Ducky…

Mackie,
I interpreted your explanation of stalking and harrassment as a precursor to you wanting to take legal action against another poster. You said:

“That’s pretty creepy. Could you please focus your attention on something or someone else. Your obsession with discrediting me is looking more and more like cyber stalking. It is a crime Lucky. You may not have crossed the line yet, but you’ve definitely established a precedent here. And considering that you are an official with public trust, it’s an even graver violation. Here is the definition” etc as you posted the definition.

It’s the part where you said “Your obsession with discrediting me is looking more and more like cyber stalking. It is a crime Lucky. You may not have crossed the line yet, but you’ve definitely established a precedent here”, that made me uncomfortable. You and I both rail against those who would make generalities about Hispanics or immigrants, whether they be here with, or without, proper documentation. If we stray from that belief then we are as guilty as those who say that the Hispanic culture is nothing but a bunch of degenerates. Lucky simply picked up on what appeared to be a very general and negative statement about “whites”. This needs to be an open forum, if you feel as though Lucky Duck is treating you unfairly, maybe the reality is that you two will just have to agree to disagree. Clearly, from my perspective, there is tension with you two that will not be readily resolved, but it does not remotely resemble criminal behavior as you implied Lucky is on the cusp of crossing into.

Elena,

The reality you’re not seeing is that I never threatened legal action.

Lucky Ducky did.