We Deserve to Know
Please sign this online petition by clicking here. Your address and email will be not published. You have the option of signing your name without it being publicly displayed. It will get sent to all the supervisors. I know it is intimidating to sign a petition or even write a letter to your supervisor knowing that it may get FOIAed by Help Save Manassas and end up on Greg’s blog. We must all stand together to confront their bullying tactics. We can’t give up our rights to representation out of fear. Once you are done signing, please forward to your neighbors, friends and family in Prince William County. Thank you.
To Chairman Stewart and Supervisors Stirrup, May, Nohe, Caddigan, Jenkins, Principi and Covington:
We, the people of Prince William County, express deep disappointment at your appointment of Robert Duecaster to the county’s Strategic Goals Task Force, Human Resources Committee confirmed on September 16, 2008 with a 5-3 vote.
We commend Supervisors Jenkins, Principi and Caddigan for voting against it.
You have the right to vote however you wish as a supervisor, and we respect that is part of the process. However, it light the of fact that Mr. Duecaster has made anti-Hispanic, xenophobic, and anti-Catholic statements both addressing the Board during Citizens’ Time and writing on blogs,
And, in light of the fact that the appointment was confirmed on the inaugural day of Hispanic Heritage Month, we ask you for the following,
1. Please make a statement as individuals, not as the Board, explaining why you voted the way you did. Tell us how you feel about Mr. Duecaster’s anti-Hispanic, xenophobic and anti-Catholic comments. For example:
This really is not about immigration, it’s not about legality or illegality, it’s not about economics, I’m going to tell right what it’s about; it’s about and invasion of this country. This country is being invaded no less than if hordes of armed people came across its borders. This invasion is not armed, but they’ve got weapons. The weapons that they use are their anchor babies…This invasion is being funded by foreign governments…We’re going to repel this invasion, one way or another, it will be repelled. You can either be part of the repulsion or you can be part of the other side. (Robert Duecaster during Citizens’ Time, October 16, 2007)
What’s even more ironic is the fact that el Pape will be here bemoaning how some jurisdictions have ‘treated’ the illegals. He’ll disregard the facts that we’ve educated their anchor babies, provided social services, indulged their vulgarities, cleaned up their trash, and provided them with a higher standard of living and more freedoms than their own countries used to give them. He’ll berate us for not embracing them wholeheartedly, for not allowing them access to our universities at the expense of our own children, and for not rewarding them for violating the sanctity of our borders. He’ll be pandering to them to gather members to replace those who left the Church due to the institutionalized approval of his priests’ penchant for little boys’ behinds. (Robert Duecaster comment written as “Advocator” on bvbl.net, April 14, 2008. He admitted to being “Advocator” to the DC Examiner. Click here for the article.)
Please click here and review this collection of his written comments.
Please click here to review a video documenting his statements to the Board or ask Channel 23 to assemble the county’s own video documentation of his statements.
2. To mark the occasion of Prince William County’s declaration of Hispanic Heritage Month, please make a statement, and take meaningful action as an individual citizen and as a District Supervisor to express your appreciation of people of Hispanic heritage in this community.
We recognize that you have not always voted in accordance with your moral beliefs or your best judgment. We ask that you take this occasion to come forward and make a statement based on your personal beliefs instead of obscuring them behind such protocols as courtesy votes and unanimous votes.
You are our elected representatives in government. We need and deserve to hear you express how you really feel and what you believe.
People of Prince William County, Virginia
I’ve already sent my expressions of support to my Supervisor who supported Duecaster.
Hispanic Heritage Month. Uhhhhh, Yeah.
Slowpoke, you exemplify what the real problem is in this county, thank you, as always, for reminding us of the core issue.
Elena, you are on fire! This is an amazing idea. This looks like the beginning of a brilliant campaign to restore some sanity and harmony to our county. I think we should also do educational outreach to our fellow citizens. They deserve to know the truth about Help Save Manassas and what’s hit this county in the past year. It really feels like a natural disaster has struck the county given the seriousness of the damage.
I would like to help you. Please get in touch with me through email.
Warning long post. Sorry
Slowpoke,
I’ve sent an email to all of the Supervisors.
And I’ve heard back from my Supervisor’s office, and they thanked me for my letter.
All,
The time has come that we must speak for ourselves. The BOS needs to see each of our own words expressing concern. We are ALL individuals living here in PWC, and we all have varying views on matters of concern. The same ole rhetoric is NOT doing anything to help the current “climate” in our county. I believe all feel they are doing is right in their mind, and therefore passions/emotions will run high. However, we’ve now had about 16 months of this. It MUST come to a screeching halt. I think if ALL took the time to truly listen to others with differing views they might actually learn something.
I said the other day ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! I mean that. We must all stop the bashing. This serves no valuable purpose, it’s only adding fuel to the fire.
I’m attaching the letter I sent to the Supervisors. I know all won’t like what I’ve said in it, but it is my true heart felt beliefs. I urge all to please, let’s try to get along. We do all live together in this county. We need to work together to move forward and begin the “healing process”. We do all want what best for the county don’t we?
We must all stop with the name calling, disrespecting, and making assumptions of those we do not know or have spoken to personally. I’ve always called those out wanting to resort to name calling and bullying tactics.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sent to the BOS,
I know yesterday’s meeting once again has the county all a flutter. I want to say each and everyone of you are entitled to make your appointments as you see fit, and that’s what you were elected to do. I feel each of you made your choices with great consideration. I think it’s important for all sides to be represented in such matters as Committees/Task Forces, etc. I know all were not pleased with the appointment of one in particular, and by the same token I’m sure there are other appointees that all weren’t pleased with either. The point is appointees are like anything else. You can please some of the people some of the time, and none all of the time. There’s very serious business to come before you with the 2010 budget, and the foreclosures are still listed daily in the newspapers. I would like to see the county partner with organizations for more programs, etc. where it’s beneficial for the common good of the entire county. We need as much citizen input as possible. We’ve all seen the citizens become more involved and speak out over the last sixteen months regarding our county. This is a great thing. I can’t say I agree with everything I hear, but the important thing is citizens are taking an active role in our local government by merely exercising their first amendment right. This past Saturday I had the opportunity to participate in a “Pilot Study Circle” on immigration in PWC. It was comprised of a diverse group of individuals all with varying views on the issue. There was one common goal and that was we all truly wanted what was best for the county. There was one thing missing and was any member of the BOCS and/or their staff. The goal is to get people to come together and have open and honest discussions on the issue of immigration. A single issue is never a single issue. I’ve said this many times at Citizens’ Time. Immigration effects many aspects of our day to day lives. I would like for each of you to review the attached press release & announcement of an informational meeting September 27, 2008 about future study circles. Please, give it serious consideration this should be beneficial for the county overall. Even though I’m not always in agreement with all, being a true INDEPENDENT. I do respect and appreciate your service and dedication to our county. I Please, feel free to contact me. I would really appreciate a response from all with regards to the “Study Circles”.
Sincerely,Chris *******
This is superbly written, Elena. You are like ice on fire (hear me Red Dawn, that’s your cue). You have never lost your cool but you always look hot!
I’m sure there are a lot of citizens who would prefer not to give their names, seeing that it is Gospel Greg Hysteria Season.
I love your perspective, Chris! I hope to meet you in person soon and talk about what we can all do to contribute to the future of our county.
I’m really shocked by Duecaster’s statements. I had seen the video of him on 9500 Liberty site, but I had no idea he’s made such filthy anti-Catholic statements. The man is grotesque and I can’t understand how he was appointed. I’m sorry I can’t sign the petition because I don’t live in Prince William. I live in Centreville and work in Gainesville. What can I do to help? I just can’t believe what is happening here. I was thinking about moving here as well. I’m sorry to admit that I wanted to take advantage of the bargain basement prices on the homes in the county. Well, not anymore. I don’t want my taxes supporting this government and these horrible policies.
I can’t imagine that John Stirrup will be re-elected about this fiasco. He nominated Duecaster and stands by this hateful man. I thought he was Catholic.
Chris,
You wrote an excellent letter. Inviting them to the study circle is a really great idea. I have always agreed that there were issues this county had to deal with, but it was the HOW they dealt with it that concerned me. We don’t all have to agree on the issues, but certainly, we can find common ground and common language that will not deny others their status as human beings.
I’m really shocked by Duecaster’s statements. I had seen the video of him on 9500 Liberty site, but I had no idea he’s made such filthy anti-Catholic statements. The man is grotesque and I can’t understand how he was appointed. I’m sorry I can’t sign the petition because I don’t live in Prince William. I live in Centreville and work in Gainesville. What can I do to help? I just can’t believe what is happening here. I was thinking about moving here as well. I’m sorry to admit that I wanted to take advantage of the bargain basement prices on the homes in the county. Well, not anymore. I don’t want my taxes supporting this government and these horrible policies.
I can’t imagine that John Stirrup will be re-elected after this fiasco. He nominated Duecaster and stands by this hateful man. I thought he was Catholic.
AnonForNow,
I have to tell you. I’m giving serious thought to posting this on bvbl too. I feel very strongly about the words I’ve written today.
Chris,
Please, please, do post it bvbl. I admire and adore you. You, Alanna and Elena make me so proud of being a woman from Prince William.
Elena,
Thank you. There really is common ground. I know some will doubt this. We are dealing with a human issue in immigration. I feel that unfortunately the “human factor” gets left all too often in a debate regarding human beings.( Hello!)
I was also offended by Duecaster’s horrible portrayal of catholics. But I also believe in free speech.
Pax, we’re not trying to censor Duecaster. We object to his appointment to the county Strategic Goals Task Force. BOCS should not be seeking his wisdom and guidance on the future direction of the county. Do you agree with that or not?
Pax,
No one is disagreeing with you regarding free speech. I may not like what Mr. Duecaster has to say, but he has the right to yell it from the tree tops if he wants. What I disagree with, is his appointment to a committee that crafts public policy.
Who is this Doocaster? How do I find out more about him? Can I meet and talk to him in person? Are these committee meetings open to the public? I just can’t believe such a man even exists in 2008. I have to see him for myself.
Maybe I should move to Prince William just so that I can be directly involved in making changes here. I do work here and I am impacted by pwc government policies.
Elena,
Right back at ya!
Slowpoke,
I would like to meet you and people like you in person. Do you attend Help Save Manassas meetings? Are they still open to the public? Do you personally know Doocaster? How do you come to believe such hateful things? I’m really confused and shocked.
Awesome letter, Chris. Thank you for inviting the supervisors and for considering posting the informaton on Greg Letiecq’s blog. I sent a news release to him at bvbl.net and to the Help Save Manassas blog, as well as here. For anyone who is interested, here’s the basic information.
PRINCE WILLIAM STUDY CIRCLES ON IMMIGRATION, 9:30-11:30 a.m., Room 130, Bull Run Hall, George Mason University’s Prince William Campus, 10900 University Blvd, Manassas. Informational meeting for anyone who lives and/or works in Manassas, Manassas Park or Prince William County and wants to better understand all sides of the immigration issue, to build relationships across groups and to develop action plans and policies based on common ground. Free. 703-927-0531 or http://www.cvdnva.org.
Elena,
Why don’t you send this petition to all Catholic churches in Prince William?
Appeals court upholds Arizona immigration law
“A federal appeals court on Wednesday upheld an Arizona law that penalizes businesses that knowingly hire illegal immigrants and requires them to verify the employment status of their workers.” [more at link]
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/09/17/national/a124413D91.DTL
All Saints was at one time the largest Catholic congregation in the Commonwealth. I think that may still be true.
JustinT you are welcome at the study circles.
I think one of the supervisors attends All Saints. And I know Corey and John are Catholic. Isn’t Marty as well?
Cindy,
Yes, JustinT would be welcome at the study circles. Afterall, he did say he worked in Gainesville.
You’re welcome. I really felt it was the right thing to do to extend an invitation to the BOS. I have also, posted it on bvbl. We need folks with all views on the issue at hand. I’ve already been asked for more information on bvbl. I would like to post the press release over there. Can you post it here so I could share with bvbl too?
Thanks Chris and Cindy. That sounds really wonderful. I will call about it.
Being new to the details of this situation, I’m a little freaked out by what I’m learning. I actually feel sick and angry. I can’t believe I have been so passive about this situation. I feel guilty that I didn’t stand up for Hispanic people when they were being persecuted by Help Save Manassas and driven out by the government’s policy. Is the study circle anything like group therapy? Because I feel very emotional right now.
All Saints is in the City of Manassas, not Prince William County. And any flyers that get placed on cars there will be summarily removed, as they have been in the past.
assuming that is what you have in mind.
Not flyers. And it’s fine that it’s in Manassas.
We should ask Father Cilinski to host a forum at All Souls about hatred. How do we respond to hatred as individuals and as a community?
And you’re targeting the Catholic Church why?
Sorry to highjack the thread with a long release, but here it is, JustinT and Chris:
Public Invited to Take Part in Dialogues on Immigration
MANASSAS, VA – An initiative called “Prince William Study Circles on Immigration” is inviting the public to a Saturday, September 27 informational meeting to learn how they can become involved in creating action plans and policies on immigration issues. The “Study Circles” effort aims to involve all kinds of people in dialogues to find solutions to the immigration issues facing the area.
What: An informational meeting about “Prince William Study Circles on Immigration.”
When: Saturday, September 27, from 9:30 a.m. to 11:30 a.m.
Where: Room 130, Bull Run Hall, George Mason University’s Prince William Campus, 10900 University Boulevard, Manassas. Parking is available in the King Lot.
Who’s Invited: People who live and/or work in Manassas, Manassas Park and Prince William County.
The purpose of the Prince William Study Circles on Immigration is to help participants to better understand all sides of the immigration issue, to build relationships across groups and to develop action plans and policies based on common ground.
A pilot study circle dialogue was held September 13 that included a diverse 14-participant group of conservatives, immigrant advocates, public sector employees, business leaders, human rights advocates, members of the faith community and other people from the Prince William area.
“I learned a lot about other people’s ideas,” said pilot study circle participant Hank Azais, a member of the board of directors of VACOLAO (Virginia Coalition of Latin American Organizations). “I think we could put them together and come up with a result that would be beneficial to the community.”
“I was somewhat surprised to find so much interest and agreement around the idea that we need to rebuild welcoming neighborhoods and communities,” said study circles organizer Dexter Fox, Chair, Unity in the Community. “We know there is work to do. It’s a beginning.”
Additional informational meetings are being planned at other locations in the Prince William area later this fall.
More than 84 study circles, with trained facilitators, have been used by Montgomery County Public Schools (Md.) to successfully address the challenges posed by cultural and racial differences in the schools. The Prince William Study Circles effort follows and builds upon interest and community involvement in three recent immigration-related programs: the Dialogue and Diversity conversations, sponsored in 2007 by George Mason University; a National Issues Forum on immigration, convened at GMU by the Center for Voter Deliberation of Northern Virginia this past June, and; Crossing the Line, a film series on immigration at GMU and co-sponsored by Unity in the Community, that took place over four weekends in August.
For more information, or to sign up to participate, contact: Bill Corbett, 703-927-0531, BillCorbett@VoterDeliberation.org, http://www.cvdnva.org or Dexter Fox, Unity in the Community Chair, 703-368-5225, mail@unityitc.org; http://www.unityitc.org.
I believe the Catholic Church has been targeted actually.
Are you denying that the Church had mishandled its sex-abuse problem?
As a Catholic, I found that very disillusioning, heartbreaking, even. The Church attacked itself.
Alanna and Elena,
I admire your tenacity. I appreciate you sticking your necks out to make our community a better place for all. I appreciate the fact that you are on the front lines holding our politicians accountable for their actions. I am so happy that I have met both of you and look forward to getting to know each of you better. I look forward to working along side you for the betterment of our community and to help make it a civil place for all people. Thanks for the tireless hours you spend to keep us informed. Thank you for a place we can have dialog where all opinions are welcomed.
Thanks go out to Moon-howler as well.
Elena,
I wish I could sign the petition but I do not live in PW County.
Chris,
Awesome letter to the BOS. You are absolutely right. We all need to come together to heal our communities. I think of the disaster in Galveston and realize everyone there is on level ground. There are no rich, no poor, no educated, no uneducated, no citizens, no immigrants. All are equally effected, yet they will be working together to restore their community. We have had a disaster, too, but at our own making. It is time to come along side of one another to restore our community.
I plan to attend the Prince William Study Circles on Immigration Sept 27. I hope many of you will be able to attend.
Chris,
Please post to posting your letter on bvbl, too. Many of the posters there need to hear some sound reason.
Emma,
It looks like my posts with you and Elvis have been deleted on bvbl. I wonder why? All I was trying to reach to people concerned about immigration. I guess a “study circle on immigration in PWC” is not a topic for bvbl. Oh well, at least I tried. It’s really ashame that all taken down. It looked Elvis was a willing participant, and it looked like you may’ve even come around and decided to attend too. It really is too bad.
Cindy B.
It would be a good idea for you to post information about the Prince William Study Circles on Immigration meeting taking place a George Mason.
Chris,
Typo’s again but you get the drift.
Marie,
Never apologize to me of all people for typos. Thanks for your kind words and hope to see you there.
Here’s what now on bvbl. I did state at the begin of my post there wasn’t a fitting thread so I would post on current one with the most traffic. I’m truly saddened that this information is not getting to as many people as could with today’s modern technology.
# Greg L said on 17 Sep 2008 at 8:03 pm:
Ed note: numerous off-topic comments that started digressing into a flame war have been removed. Let’s please not try to drag threads off-topic, please?
# Lafayette said on 17 Sep 2008 at 8:19 pm:
My only intent was to share information regarding immigration in PWC.
I thought that was a topic. Greg, you really should consider sharing that information on the Study Circles with you posters and members of HSM.
I do sincerely apologize. I am not willing to participate in a flame war BTW.
sorry,
Chris
Please keep us up to date on how many have signed the online petition. I forwarded it to as many people as I could think of.
There’s free speech and then there’s being held accountable for what you say.
wow Chris,
Here you are, offering a real forum of building solutions together as a community and Greg says what? You responded with alot of class Chris, I commend you, I truly do. I am going to try to make it to the study group too. Just need to get child care arranged.
And who might we have to thank for that flame war? Not Chris.
Chris thanks for trying to reach out to EVERYone in the county, regardless of political affiliation or sentiments on immigration. Obviously you want to solve problems and Greg does not.
Still waiting for the flame thrower to ‘fess up. Who started a flame war with Chris when she tried to invite bvbl/hsm people and the BOCS to participate in the study circles?
Chris wants nothing but the best for this county. To those individuals who tried to block her efforts, shame on you!
tapping foot. Waiting…………
Greg doesn’t want to be part of anything he can’t totally control. He can be marginalized and left to howl in the wind. Just move on without him. No one needs to wait on him in order to try to make progress. Chris did a classy thing in trying, but when you’re dealing with him and his remaining dozen minions, it’s wasted time.
Guns of Love,
If you click the petition, you can see for yourself how many people have signed.
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/3/we-deserve-to-know
10 people have signed so far.
It’s really great hearing women talk about politics. There is so much more humanity and warmth in the conversation here.
Are there any men on this blog? I assume Slowpoke is a man. Emma sounds like a man posing as a woman or is she just a manly woman. No disrespect. My mom is a manly woman and I love her. She’s tough as nails out to prove that she needs nobody to be a somebody. Love her. Would love to meet Emma. Will she/he be at the study circle?
Censored,
Yes, Greg is to blame. He should have handled the situation differently.
However, there is another guilty party who is too chicken shit to own up to what they did. I am waiting for that person to confess AND apologize to Chris for sabotaging her very sincere efforts.
Moon-howler, would you expect a sincere apology or a momentary, convenient apology quickly forgotten?
Chris,
I hope you go speak on Tuesday at Citizens’ Time. You need to be heard on a regular basis.
It’s interesting that out of 10 petitioners, only one person has a Latino name and no one has chosen to hide his/her name.
Finally, the people in the middle are standing up and being counted. It’s going to be a smack down. Stewart and Stirrup, you guys are going down in a flame with Duecaster and Letiecq.
Censored, I would expect for Chris to receive a sincere apology and I would expect to see a definite change in behavior on all fronts.
Elvis and I both admitted to our mistake when we realized the study circles were being held on Saturday, not the weekday, but you still felt the need to jump down our throats, Chris. There was no need to be so confrontational.
Emma,
I will not debate this with you. I was not confrontational. Going back and pointing out an error is hardly “jumping down a throat” or confrontational. You didn’t just accept the information you had to say something smart(imho) about having time to work and attend things during the week.Anyways, it was an honest and sincere invitation to the ENTIRE community. I’ve only ever wanted the best for PWC. I really didn’t think sharing information on this ever so important issue would have resulted in this. I said I want for all to be able to find common ground. I meant that with all of my heart. I was hopeful all would want and being willing to work to find common ground for the good of the entire community.
Good night, Emma.
I am still waiting….
Is someone playing the eternal victim again? Being the victim is not an apology.
Thanks you all for you positive thoughts.
NotGL,
I told a friend this afternoon, I plan on addressing the BOS next Tuesday night. I haven’t addressed the board in quite sometime now. We must move forward, and in a positive/respectful manner.
Boo Hoo. Rob Duecaster is on a citizens board that develops policy and advises the BOCS. You all got in such a tizzy over this. Do you realize how silly you look? Guess what you have done. You have set a precendent. From now on, Supervisors, or their supporters, are free to challenge any and all appointees. You all did it first. Now your people can be challenged too.
17 names on the petition. Please sign and forward to residents of Prince William County.
I’ve become obsessed with this situation.
BooHoo,
As much as we’d like to take credit, we really can’t. I believe Gary Freidman had 2 individuals vote against him for an appointment. And going back about 20 years, Annie Synder an intended appointee for Bobbi McManus(sp) was turned down for a position on the planning commission. So, while it is unusual, it’s not unheard of.
BooHoo, Emma and other anti-antibvbl folks,
Who are you people? Don’t you have any sense of decency? Do you agree with this man Doocaster’s horribly offensive views? I don’t understand you. You’re scaring me. I feel like I’m in a bad zombie movie.
18 names. I love you people for standing up for what is right.
It’s almost 2am and I’m still up.
21 names.
Don’t know if it makes a difference to have a signature from Massachusetts, but I signed it. Nativists do it all the time so I figured why not. Good luck. It’s good to see good people take a stand.
What I still can’t understand is how does allowing thousands of illegal immigrants reside in PWC make the county a much better place to live? I can see how it would make the county a better place for the illegal immigrants, but hardly a better place for the original citizens to live in. Someone please explain this logic to me, and don’t tell me that this nation wide mortgage disaster is due to us causing them to go elsewhere. The day before the Resolution exactly how was PWC becoming a better place to live, for the legal citizens that is?
If I wanted my children to grow up in a Mexican border town I would have just moved them to one instead of allowing all the border inhabitants to move here. Perhaps that’s something that you folks may consider. It sounds as though you’d be much happier, as you’d be surrounded by the very people you so lovingly support. Plus you’d be getting further away from us horrible citizens just trying to maintain or improve the standards of living in PWC.
Chris - way to go. Actions speak louder than words and you are all about action.
We need to keep documenting these things. The discussion and removal from the other.
Still waiting. Emma. You have not yet admitted to causing the flame war (sic) and you have not apologized to Chris when she tried to do the right thing for the county.
MH, I looked through the thread and I guess I missed it. Why do you call out Emma and Elvis? Before the removal of Chris’ comments on BVBL, it looked like Elvis (unless I am getting names mixed up) showed some interest in the circles. Emma just made a comment if I recall that she didn’t have time in a week to be on blogs all day and attend these circles. It looked to me that Greg did it — not either of these two. Do you have other information?
Even Chris said this–
“Emma,
It looks like my posts with you and Elvis have been deleted on bvbl. I wonder why? All I was trying to reach to people concerned about immigration. I guess a “study circle on immigration in PWC” is not a topic for bvbl. Oh well, at least I tried. It’s really ashame that all taken down. It looked Elvis was a willing participant, and it looked like you may’ve even come around and decided to attend too. It really is too bad.”
MH, perhaps I missed something on BVBL (I am not enamored with looking there as often as here). Is that where some comments were made that do not appear above?
SA,
I don’t think anyone here wants for Prince William County to become a border town. It is HOW we improve the standard of living in the county that seems to be the big bone of contention.
I hate to bring this up but we sure have had a lot of murders here in Prince William County this week. 3 murders in 4 days.
Unless I am missing something, none of the people sought for murder had Hispanic last names. It sounds like we are a border town already but I am not sure about a border of what. Car jackings, drive by shootings, conspiracy murders—- are we becoming the ghetto county for Northern VA? Meanwhile our esteemed Supervisors cut funds for hiring new cops without batting an eye.
Resident, they were removed.
MH, thanks I was confused. I do have a post in moderation that asked why you were looking for an apology for Chris. If the admin wants to drop my comment, I got my answer and she doesn’t need to waste space on this board.
You are more than welcome, Resident. I will investigate the moderation issue also since you are not a first-time poster.
Resident,
You have been set free. There you go. Free at last!
Chris,
Sorry to hear your post was removed from BVBL. Just goes to show you Greg is not really interested in healing our community. He will continue to spin his stories and report half truths. So be it. You have taken the higher road and good always prevails over evil. Censored is right when saying that Greg will not be involved in anything he can not control.
I feel so liberated, thanks.
Justin,
I would like to meet you and people like you in person.
Chances are you do every day.
Do you attend Help Save Manassas meetings? Are they still open to the public?
No, I’m not a HSM person. I agree with Greg most of the time, but occasionally, he sidetracks into religion, and really gets off point in my mind.
Do you personally know Doocaster?
Not personally, only through postings. Although I think your mispelling is funny “Doo-caster…”one who throws poo”
How do you come to believe such hateful things?
Education, Experience, the ability to see things the way they are and not how I wish they were, and the comfort of knowing that left-wing lunatics label ANYTHING and EVERYTHING that doesn’t match up with their beliefs as hate, racism, nativism, xenophobia, etc, until the terms cease to have meaning, like “dude”, it could mean anything. And it’s this constant reliance on these terms diluting their meaning that is the real disservice to the people you’re trying to help.
I’m really confused and shocked.
I’d bet a month’s salary on it!
“Do you attend Help Save Manassas meetings? Are they still open to the public?”
Hehe… Only boogey-men attend HSM meetings. In order to attend, you must fill out a special form that ensures you are truly racist and are willing to pack heat and construct barbed-wire fences when necessary. Not for the faint of heart. Pregnant women and those with heart conditions should not even consider attending.
Having a Hitler mustache and clothing addorned with swastikas makes you a shoe-in and forgoes the special form. Jack-boots also a plus along with owning viscious dogs (particularly the German variety). Also, blonde hair/blue eyed individuals get special door prizes as Greg L. would like to involve you in the special HSM breeding program.
Members in long standing which show great potential eventually get invited to Greg’s “Master Plan” forum in which all his sinister plans are laid out. The truly elite get a secret “Master Plan” decoder ring along with special “Red Circle” Jack Boots.
Hope to see you!
Hope this doesn’t end up Elena’s petition… YIKES!!!!
Kyledebb, thanks for the support from north of the Mason Dixon! How did you put a logo in like that?
I’ve been thinking hard about this petition and whether to sign with my real name (it’s not just me that would be in danger of attack: I have children, a husband, and two dogs in this house).
On the one hand, it’s clear that anyone who speaks out (and is not a loyal Greg Letiecq follower) will be attacked on the web.
On the other hand, despite all the worst times (I do believe the worst times are behind us) we have ever faced as a county, at least in my lifetime, no one that we know of has been physically attacked in reprisal for their views.
And, if we want our Supervisors to start standing up for the ordinary citizens of this county, then WE probably ought to stand with the three Supervisors who showed the fortitude and courage to publicly object to this appointment.
So quick to turn and bite the hand that feeds. You may be disappointed in the Board, but I am deeply disappointed in the turn this coalition has taken. This was the group that wanted to change the nature of the discussion in our community. But you have quickly devolved into spewing the hatred that the original participants engaged in - even if it is only repeating their words. The additional airtime given to these sentiments is damaging to us all, even if it was done with good intentions. And now shaming the Board, gathering petitions,mobilizing a negative email campaign… These are not effective strategies for longterm influence. It saddens me that a group with such potential has thrown away its ability to effectively participate for the long haul by resorting to the same old tactics.
Lookee what Woodee found.
From a dark screen poster, talking about the telecommunications county people:
I guess the radical right wing conservative is really showing his/her true colors isn’t he/she? Methinks the dispenser of the red circle kool aide is handing you all a real line of hoooo eeeeee. Be careful what you drink, Black Velvets. Cuidado!!!
Your fearless leader is trying to distract you by covering his own tracks.
Greg Letiecq wrote that???????
Glad you pointed it out before he erases it. Duecaster’s agenda has nothing to do with votes by the Supervisors. His last two Citizens’ Times speeches clearly show that he was angry about the neutering of the law on April 29.
And the video about “probable cause” shows he was upset that even the July 10th resolution was a step closer to being Constitutional than his original, horribly written Frankenstein’s Monster sewed together with body parts from a known hate group (Federation for American Immigration Reform).
I want to make a couple of things clear. Some to be confused on where I stand on things because I post on this blog and not the other. There are several reasons for that. I have had several comments deleted on bvbl. There for I have come here to post. I don’t agree with all or even most on either blog. However, after me last nights comments being deleted, because the weren’t on topic is fine. I said at the beginning of post there was not an appropriate thread to put the “info” on. Therefore, I’m posting it on the most current thread with the most traffic. It was sincere outreach to get all sides involved we do all live here, after all. I post my comments here because they will not be deleted. I don’t always like the threads I see here, and by the same token I would say the same of the other blog.
The admin of both blogs have EVERY right to delete, edit, etc. anything they want it’s their blog.
I can assure all of you I am still opposed to illegal immigration. That has not changed one bit. I belong to no group and/or movement of any kind. My words are MY thoughts and not by anything is anyone is feeding me. I do my OWN homework, and come to my own conclusions.
Anyways, for anyone who may thing I’m now an “illegal alien apologist” just because I post here is DEAD WRONG. I want my thoughts to remain on the board, and they do stay here. Therefore, again that’s why I post here.
Corr: Some *SEEM* to be confused on where I stand on things because I post on this blog and not the other.
anonymous,
I completely disagree with you. To shed light on hatred takes courage. And it makes people uncomfortable to be confronted with such an ugly thing. But it’s part of our county and it’s dictating government policy. We’ve got to look at ourselves in the mirror and see the hatred and the ugliness. It makes us cringe but it’s the only way we will develop awareness and make conscious decisions to do something about it.
antibvbl is in my opinion on the right track to taking effective political action. I’m very grateful to the folks on anti. As a woman whose ancestors were slaves, I am keenly aware that it’s easy to hide the ugliness. But, unless it’s confronted– it took a war to confront that one — we all fall.
It makes me tearful to think of how much courage it took Elena to start this campaign to challenge Duecaster’s appointment and to ask the supervisors to account for their votes. I am in awe and I am inspired. And hopeful.
I ask you to reexamine your assessment.
Again, the motives are good but turning on the Board members is not an effective way to win friends and influence policy.
anonymous,
You sound like you’re a Board member whining because you’re being held accountable. I’ll bet you are one of the five who voted for Duecaster.
We’re not turning on the Board. This is called accountability. The Board members are elected to REPRESENT us and when we don’t feel represented, it’s a good idea for us to hold our representatives ACCOUNTABLE. That’s called DEMOCRACY.
Whoever anonymous is, he or she is a politician. It’s about influence not about what is right.
anonymous,
And what is “the hand that feeds”? I don’t understand. Who’s feeding us? Please explain.
I feel like I’ve entered the Twilight Zone. How do I catch up? I’m so confused.
Question: How in the world did Greg Letiecq and Robert Doocaster come to influence county government and get appointments? And normal citizens like Elena are being told by a Board member (via anonymous posting on a blog) not to participate even by petition.
anonymous,
you are wrong. the board must understand that we’ve had enough. we’re mad as hell about this appointment and we’re not going to take it anymore. it’s a slap in the to appoint someone this radical to a county committee.
maureen caddigan should run as an independent again corey in 2011.
vote maureen caddigan for a return to sensible government.
Chris,
No one here is for illegal immigration. Greg has created a faulty premise, you are either for illegal immigration or against illegal immigration. I would argue that with only 1.6% of the arrested offenders in PWC were not legal residents, this has been a wasted policy. There is NO illegal immigration crime wave. There was a demographic change, one that people assumed was due to illegal immigrant. While a portion of it very well could be undocumented workers, I dont’ disagree, I think that our county government should have addressed the issues in these neighborhoods much more effectively, without resorting to such divisive behavior. I have always talked about my exprience in centreville, and the demographic change was not latino, but middle eastern, but no one would have thought to deal with the community issues with an over reaching all encompassing resolution.
Petitions, study circles, naive good will all around but I’ll fight to my dying breath before I agree to give any type of amnesty (i.e. forgiveness and advantage) to people for sneaking in here - when hundreds of millions more are watching. The only options acceptable involve punishing employers for hiring illegals, punishing illegals, and watching self-deportation occur.
And I think that if you study this issue and think hard enough you’ll see that that is the inevitable conclusion.
It is curious, I too am wondering who anonymous could be. Could it be one of the Supervisors? And then I start this process of elimination in my head, I guess it could conceivably be one of the 5 who voted against it but I doubt that Stirrup or Stewart would try and discourage us, so then I’m left with Nohe, May, or Covington. The next person I would discount would be Covington, followed by May and then it’s just Nohe left. Could he feel betrayed? Are we ‘biting the hand that feeds us’ because he submitted the altered resolution? Anyways, if that’s the case it would be rather ironic considering I too feel betrayed.
But then again, who knows?
anonymous,
I initially was unsure of how to react to the appointment of Robert Duecaster. As far as bite the hand that feeds you? We are all in this together, I feel personally betrayed by Supervisors that I know do not support the words OR deeds of Robert Duecaster, but have not been able to find their public voices on the rising tide of extremism in this county. The reality is that the resolution has been neutered, we are thankful to Superivors Nohe, Principi, May, and Jenkins for fixing what was clearly a lapse in judgement. Sometimes you make a deal with the devil, as someone once said to me recently, and it comes back to bite you. Citizens have been sticking their necks out, creating cover for the supervisors, and all we ask is for them to return the favor. We are all in this together! I know this has been difficult for the Supervisors, but it hasn’t been a cake for us citizens either.
I am fortunately.not a supervisor.
anonymous,
I have found myself forced to respond to a policy, from its inception, was a colossal mistake. Had our supervisors, at the time, done a modicum of research, I firmly believe that we would not be where we are today. Having said that, we have to move forward, and we are trying to help our supervisors accomplish that goal, but we need the ones, that I know, to take the continued action to reach that goal. I am not angry, just incredibly disappointed.
Anonymous, I think most of us agree that Robert Duecaster’s nomination was an anomaly - both in terms of Board discussion and vote but also in terms of his qualifications. His public speech at the BOCS meetings and his writings on BVBL were a very visible poke in the eye to many PWC residents, not merely the posters on this blog. The negativity was aimed at Catholics, Muslims,veterans with whom he served, Hispanics, women. I simply can’t remember any other nominee who stood so publically and “dissed” so many people. His was a nomination crying for a defeat. At some point the Board has to come to terms with its role - even if its role initially was inadvertant - in allowing this mess to fester in our county. At some point, a nomination such as Mr. Duecaster’s has to be seen as what it is and voted down.
You’ll notice that a few other appointees who have been active in the anti-immigration movement were not opposed. They have not said the things Mr. Duecaster has said.
When will you people realize you are a minority? 17% at best.
Justin T,
Where do you want to meet?
Dime
By biting the hand that feeds, all I meant was that the Board members are the decisionmakers, and burning goodwill with them won’t get you too far. I may not even disagree with your thoughts, feelings or conclusions. But I do think your methods will be less effective.
At what point in the democratic decision making process does everyone agree to abide by the voted decision? The way everyone carries on I don’t know why we bother. A vote between two choices means that someone isn’t going to get their way. That’s the best system we have so how about accepting the results, instead of starting a campaign about the vote not being fair. I really don’t need to hear four years of whining from who ever looses in November either. Eventually you’ll get a chance to cast your 17% vote for board members, so relax until then.
Where’s the 17% coming from? If it’s the citizen satisfaction survey, I wouldn’t go there because there’s no way of knowing what that figure means (i.e. how to interpret it).
Yea, 17% is getting real old. I take issue with things having to be 2 dimensional. Yes or NO. Black or White. Some of us might be somewhere in between. Maybe, gray. These are not always bad places to be.
It is knowable what it means. The demographer dude said it is the number of people who are willing to blame our Police force for the Immigration Resolution.
I am probably more offended by the resolution than anyone on this blog, but I am NOT WILLING to blame our police officers or our Chief for the Board’s decision.
Corey asked the demographer dude, “Why didn’t you ask them directly how they feel about the policy?”
The guy said, “Because it is not our practice to ask about specific policies.”
This is all from memory, but that’s what I remember.
I also remember thinking, oh boy, Gospel Greg will spin this to say only 17 percent were willing to cricicize the policy, and the low information types will believe him without looking at the study, and without hearing the guy who directed the study explain:
THE QUESTION WAS ABOUT THE POLICE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE POLICY; not the policy itself.
I don’t know anyone, really, not anyone, who would blame the police officers for the Supervisors’ bad policy.
Ok, agreed, I’ll stop with the 17% if you stop with the 1.6%. Take a look at the photos from the BOCS waiting room during the Resolution vote versus today. That’s why the numbers have dropped dramatically.
Hi, All.
I was on a tour of the Capitol today and guess what?! I am about 98% sure I saw John Stirrup there! And he was not on any tour. Ugh, it just makes me physically ill that he has access to our hallowed halls of government. I am not 100% positive it was him, but I’m almost sure. I’ve only seen him once in person, but there have been close ups of him on videos and I just swear it was him. He rushed by me and if I hadn’t been with a group of co workers I probably would have been arrested for rushing up to him to let him know I am a constituent that does NOT think highly of him or the people he chose to appoint.
Dime,
Thanks for agreeing to meet me. How do you want to arrange this? Could I meet you at the study circle? Or how about on Tuesday at McCoart evening session?
SA,
Let’s look at both percents and determine where they come from. I think we are all throwing them around and probably need to refresh memories where they come from.
1.6% of those arrested from July 2007-July 2008 were illegal immigrants? Am I right on that?
17% were dissatisfied with what? I have forgotten.
Everyone else is free to jump in and straighten me out on this.
MH,
Is there any real debate over the presence of between 10 and 20 million illegal immigrants in this country? That is a fact regardless of the arrest rates in little old PWC. Why is it that I should feel relieved about 1.6%. Perhaps it’s a slow season for crime for all I know. There could be zero illegals in PWC in a year or so, and then I’d really be impressed.
SA, I don’t think anyone really knows how many illegal immigrants there are in the country but I won’t argue either of your numbers. I don’t think you should be relieved that only 1.6% of those arrested were illegal immigrants.
Here is the issue, at least in my mind. I cannot tell who is legal and who isn’t. I can guess, but that doesn’t make me correct. A huge deal was made over crime committed by illegal immigrants in Pr. Wm. County. In fact, wasn’t that the main thrust of the original resolution?
Now I don’t want criminals running around loose any more than the next guy. I am all for locking up criminals. If they are in the country illegally, I will even agree to give them a one way ticket home once they have done their time, if they committed a serious crime (not jay walking or a parking light out)
But, our cop records are showing that out of all the arrests in that given year, 1.6% were illegal immigrants. Where are the hordes of thugs that had us all cowering under our beds? To hear some folks talk, we were about to be over-run by the thundering herd of illegal aliens. I think 1.6% falls a little short of the projections we were all given. And for the record, I am all for locking up those 1.6% if they did the crime.
MH,
AMEN!
Dime,
I don’t care if some, like you, think that people with my viewpoint are in the minority. Being in the minority doesn’t mean that you have any less right to an opinion.
Second Alamo,
When a decision is made that I feel is a poor one, I am not forced to sit and take it. Plenty of great laws have been made in this country, but, as history shows, there have also been plenty of bad ones put on the books.
We have a very real and legal right to express our opinions about laws, and sometimes we even have some people that step up to the plate and work to try and change things for the better. Thank goodness that laws in this country are living documents!
MH,
No, crime in general wasn’t the main thrust of the Resolution, but the fact that MS-13 came along for the ride was a factor that I hope no one here would deny. As you say you don’t know who is legal and who isn’t, but it’s that lack of background knowledge of these people that makes it so bothersome. Not only do you not know if they’re legal, you also don’t know if they have a criminal or medical history. Crossing over into the US would be a very easy way for a Latino thug to avoid prosecution south of the border, as do many members of MS-13. Most of the MS-13 members came from south of the border, and others were recruited here from other illegal families.
SA Said:
As you say you don’t know who is legal and who isn’t, but it’s that lack of background knowledge of these people that makes it so bothersome. Not only do you not know if they’re legal, you also don’t know if they have a criminal or medical history.
So, by your logic outlined above, then anyone who doesn’t speak English as their first language or has brown skin is suspect? “Not only do you not know if they’re legal, you also don’t know if they have a criminal or medical history?”!! Really? So, anyone here legally should have to wear a Scarlet Letter (A for Alien), so you know they are here legally and not illegally? Really, although there are a huge number of “illegal aliens”, there are also huge numbers of “legal aliens”, but you are essentially saying that it doesn’t matter to you which they are, because you can’t tell what their background is or determine whether they are legal or not by looking at them.
Ah, I knew you’d pick up on the ‘unknown’ issue. You’re right, I don’t know the background of anyone no matter who, but at least I know that immigrants who are legal have had their backgrounds and health checked. Not so for illegals. It’s like knowing that we enforce laws. It gives you a feeling of security that wouldn’t exist if we didn’t as in Mexico.
I have grown to believe that males think about these types of things more than women do. Thats how it works at my house at least.
I don’t think that people still get health checks like they did in the days of Ellis Island. What’s the difference in someone here on a 90 day visa and someone who has overstayed that 90 day visitors visa? I see no difference other than being out of status….no change in the individual.
Second Alamo, I’m glad to see you understand the meaning of the 17 percent figure. But regarding your point about 1.6 percent, I find that a little troubling.
The people at the Board chambers in 2007 were indeed Latino, but that does not signify documentation status as you well know.
Now they have less at stake, and are not seen as often in Board chambers, but the same is true for Help Save Manassas stickers and people apt to wear them.
Those Latinos who decided not to live in this sort of climate have left, I grant you. But were not criminals who are also undocumented. They were just families with moms, and dads, and kids, and maybe an uncle or a great aunt in the house who is undocumented, or maybe they just didn’t feel safe or welcome.
On the other hand, the gang members in PWC, I mean, the ones who also happen to also be undocumented and Latino, are not afraid of the law, and will probably remain that way no matter what new laws you put on the books. They were already breaking the old ones!
In other words, before the Resolution, they were committing the sorts of crimes that would have landed them in the 287G program, which I believe was initiated in 2006. So they were not going to freak out about the idea that people who roll through stops signs might also be targeted.
I’m not clear on whether you think a “crime wave” was the false justification for the Resolution, but I recall that it was used that way. It’s increasingly clear that the proponents of the Resolution objected to the presence of Latino people in their neighborhoods, regardless of their status, and regardless of their propensity to commit crimes.
I cannot fathom any other reason to be pleased with how things have turned out in PWC in the year and a half that we’ve been consumed with the immigration issue.
NGL and Second Alamo:
Another way of looking at it is this:
If we decided as a county to outlaw people with Type O blood, and enlisted our Police Officers to check the blood types for all those people they encountered who they had Probable Cause to suspect had Type O blood….
Well, our crime statistics would now show a small percentage of people with Type O blood committing crimes. Of course, that easily could be attributed to the fact that people with Type O blood were committing a small percentage of crime in this county BEFORE the Type O Blood Crackdown, because people with Type O blood represent a small percentage of the human population.
If you throw out a lot of babies, you might very well throw out some bathwater as well. Now that the damage is done, it’s not as important what the statistics tell us, as it is to reevaluate what our common values we share as a community, and which of them we wish to use to guide our democracy.
We must ask ourselves, was it really that important to get rid of Hispanic immigrants? For every Hispanic baby that would have grown up to be a productive member of our community, did we also ease the anxiety of a septuagenarian who was not prepared for our changing demographics?
Was it worth the heartache, conflict, and anger as we’ve suffered? Was it worth as much money as we have spent? Was it worth the sense of community we shared? Was it worth the reputation we enjoyed? Was it worth the futures we once looked upon with optimism? Was it worth losing faith in our elected officials? Was it worth seeing our Police Chief attacked? Was it worth knowing that we risk being looked upon by historians as another tragic example of how fear and prejudice can poison a society, and cause otherwise good people to be consumed with hatred, unable to grasp such concepts as forward thinking and the common good?