Witch-Hunt in Prince William
Nativist Letiecq Attempts to Intimidate Numerous Members of PWC Community
Just days after Help Save Manassas was classified as “an extremist organization that employs hateful rhetoric” by the Anti-Defamation League, the man responsible for earning this classification for his followers has sunk to a new low.
A private email I wrote eleven days ago found its way to Greg Letiecq, who has posted a new thread on his blog intending to intimidate and persecute, not only me, but everyone who was on the email list.
In it, I questioned the judgment of Gainesville District Supervisor John Stirrup, who tomorrow will ask his fellow Supervisors to vote to approve his appointment of Robert Duecaster to the Prince William County Strategic Goals Task Force. I have made no secret of my feelings about Duecaster’s racist writings, or his infamous outbursts before our Board of Supervisors (see previous thread). But now Letiecq is trying to intimidate and defame those who received the email (many of whom did not respond).
Supervisor Stirrup’s apparent trust in Duecaster — the only man in this county who has personally threatened the Board of Supervisors with more hatred and rage than Letiecq himself — is just one symptom of the toxicification of Prince William County at the hands of Letiecq, his blog, and his extremist organization. The Center for American Progress has documented how intimidation and incitement of racial conflict are common methods of attack for anti-immigrant organizations.
The persecution began last year, targeting the Hispanic community, though often worded to focus on “illegal” immigrants rather than the Hispanic community in general. But it did not stop when many members of the Hispanic community left the county. It did not stop when our county’s Citizen Satisfaction Survey revealed that both the Hispanic and the African American communities have lost trust in county government and the police force.
For more than a year, Letiecq has been targeting anyone who dares to oppose his relentless attempts to dominate our county government by exploiting his influence over Supervisor Stirrup and Chairman Corey Stewart. Now, he is not only targeting those who criticize him, he is targeting anyone who associates with his critics, or thinks about joining them.
Letiecq has made a habit of attacking me. But he knows I am not intimidated. He knows I will stand up to him.
Many of the those who received my personal email have not criticized Letiecq or taken any action to challenge his greed for power. By publishing their names without permission and “identifying” them, he has violated their privacy in a despicable attempt to make them appear guilty of some infraction, and bully them into silence.
I for one am not afraid of Greg Letiecq’s Neo-McCarthyism. And I am not afraid to say I oppose the appointment of Robert Duecaster to our county’s Strategic Goals Task Force. But more importantly, I oppose the persecution tactics Letiecq has employed to unduly influence this county government, its leaders, and its citizens.
P.S. Question for Greg Letiecq: Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have you left no sense of decency?
Jeeze, what is this county coming to? Elena, you are one brave lady, that’s for sure. May I say brave and beautiful?
I’m beginning to understand the disease that has taken over a segment of this county. I don’t know which is more frightening, an elected offical nominating Duecaster, or this creepo Letiecq and his Witch Hunt tactics in support of that nomination.
Wow Elena. Just wow. After Greg’s machine guns and barbed wire comment at the BoCS, I didn’t realize there WAS another new low for him right around the corner. This kind of terror tactic is truly Un-American. It’s scary to know I live in the same county as such a man.
I think Greg’s scariest episode dressing in a commando outfit doing the vigilante two step at Coverstone, then threatening a police officer just for doing his job and pulling him over, oh, and for having a Hispanic sir name. Policing-while-Hispanic is not a crime, even if you pull over Mr. Letiecq. That was low. But after reading what’s on that other site, I think maybe “new low” is too nice of a word.
It’s an old tactic. God, how he lists the names as if his hate group disciples are now supposed to zero in on them. Attention disciples: the following people are to be hated immiediately. GregL is slimy as all get out.
On those videos Duecaster made some very offensive comments. It leads one to ponder what he says in private. I find it hard to believe that Greg doesn’t understand why someone might have concerns about this guy
It’s all a game now to him. It’s “us vs. them”. No matter what you do, as long as you’re classified as “them”, he’ll do anything to insult you.
So, someone in your inner circle is a spy for the other. Now who could that be? Remember, just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean someone isn’t out to get you!
El Guapo,
This site initiated the us versus them, remember? Anti-BVBL, ring a bell.
Witch Hunt,
Such Drama!!
So let me get this straight. After carrying out a year long campaign of character assassinations on members of the BOCS, and telling them that they made a terribly bad decision in voting unanimously for a resolution partially authored by Mr. Duecaster, you now are going to tell them that they are about to make an even worse decision on placing Mr. Duecaster on a committee. Yeah, I’m sure you’ll have a great deal of influence in their decision making process! Don’t hold your breath.
Have you seen this? Obama Waffles. Republicans digging their own grave.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ai6b6QPLXtI&feature=related
This is getting ugly. It’s a big flame war being played out.
I can see how each side thinks they are fighting hard but fair, how each is reacting to what they don’t like about the other and mirroring the behavior they decry. Each side has rational points to make and each side is engaged in personal attacks.
In the end I think maybe the worse thing Greg did was posting people’s e-mails addresses.
I do think this is mostly a tempest in a teapot, I’m not going to lose sleep over it, but it’s getting very personal and somewhat absurd.
Rick,
How am I engaged in personal attacks? I have NEVER stood before the the board and attacked anyone except the hate rhetoric they espoused. Is ADL also being unfair? At what point is pointing out outrageous behavior that affects the public policy of my county fair game?
This is absolutely INSANE!!
This whole thing started a year ago. It started out with just wanting to do something about the presence of ilegal aliens. Now, a year later…anyone and everyone who’s not marching to HSM drum is under attack. This so SICKENING to me as a native of this county.
What we have here ladies and gentleman, is just bullying like a kid a on a playground. This has all completely out hand. We have some in our county that want to add to the burden by FOIA’ing everything under the sun. Hell, I will NOT email any county office anymore, because I do not want my personal thoughts and concerns to any county office, official, etc. to be investigating by those wanting to be the “thought police”. I no longer contact them via email. I hope folks realize this does NOT promote a happy, health or safe attitude within our county.
All of this crap just needs to stop! Enough is enough.
I’m sure you think you’re acting decently enough and I don’t doubt that GL thinks he is also.
There is no consensus on where to draw the line between public actions or positions and personal info and you guys (on both sides) have been making things personal.
You (this site) went after Duecaster very hard and even to the point of soliciting for blog quotes. is it justified? To you it is, to GL maybe it’s vicious. I’m not here to castigate you. I am going to tell you though that I think the whole thing, while more silly than scary I think, is very silly at this point. You guys really infiltrate HSM meetings?
Byler and Park I have more of an issue with. I guess Michael Moore is their inspiration. Intellectual dishonesty in the guise of documentarianism.
I’ll say this - I can see why you think he’s a thug. But he aspires to doing exactly what he’s doing, using the Internet to curb what he probably sees as leftist bullying. Just as Byler and Park do what they do, for their own personal reasons.
So, when you trash someone on your blog, you are expressing “concerns”. When Greg trashes someone on his blog, he is trying to “intimidate” you. Oh, that is rich. “Whoa is me. I decided to get into the ring and take a few jabs at Greg. Now I am mad because he has decided to hit back. How unfair. How mean. How…nativist.”
And before your regular defenders start jumping all over me, I don’t see a nickel’s worht of difference between the posters over there, and the posters over here. Also, I don’t see much difference between the conduct of the administration of both blogs. About the only thing that I see is that Greg calls for enforcing the law, and you all call for ignoring the law for whatever particular agenda you serve.
Rick,
I hardly think you can say Alanna(one person) atttending an HSM meeting is infiltraiting. Remember, HSM meetings are OPEN TO THE PUBLIC. And furthermore, HSM members have even invitited as if a dare for posters on here to come to a meeting. Now, is that really infiltraiting, Rick.
I really think the personal attacks started with the “fat broads” comments, myself. I don’t think anyone should be making such demeaning personal comments.
In all honesty, I think all sides are acting on what “they” believe is right.
Greg is blind to bigotry, and he demands the Board of Supervisors be that way too. He doesn’t even recognize that average citizens also cringe at the way Duecaster screams at the Supervisors, saying if they do anything to touch his “Resolution” he will direct the hatred in his heart at THEM instead of the “hordes outside your door.”
I agree with Chris, who should know, by the way, because she once was caught up in it all. It’s a game to Greg, he has his team, which includes Duecaster, and he doesn’t want anyone getting in his way by questioning the beliefs, which certainly seem to be extreme and hateful toward certain groups.
Greg is blind to bigotry. And he wants the county to be that way too.
“This is getting ugly. It’s a big flame war being played out.
I can see how each side thinks they are fighting hard but fair, how each is reacting to what they don’t like about the other and mirroring the behavior they decry. Each side has rational points to make and each side is engaged in personal attacks.
In the end I think maybe the worse thing Greg did was posting people’s e-mails addresses.
I do think this is mostly a tempest in a teapot, I’m not going to lose sleep over it, but it’s getting very personal and somewhat absurd.”
Very, very wise words. I agree. Both sides are equally guilty in keeping up the antagonism. You want to attack one of his, he is going to attack some of yours.
Ed, there are no thought police on this blog. We have criticized people who stood before the Board of Supervisors and made threats at them. And we have challenged people who came here and posted racist comments. But we have never attacked people who didn’t SAY ANYTHING, based on something we know they probably READ.
That. Is. Frightening.
This is way beyond disgusting.
Question for all ya’ll history buffs. When anti-immigrant hate groups targeted the Italians, the Irish, the Chinese, and the Jews, did they also attack those who stood up to defend them?
Did they also attack those who tried to defend the honor of our democracy and what it stands for? Did they attack people who read newsletters printed by those defenders?
I could tell you all about the persecution faced by the early Abolitionists.
Since you raise that point NGL I see myself as against slavery and those who apologize for illegal immigration as moving us towards a continent of haves and have-nots, a virtual slavery.
Certainly, we are well within our rights to oppose any appointment. Denying an appointment has not traditionally been done but it’s not unprecedented.
Fighting this appointment is an uphill battle, but so what? He needs to be opposed and not for some stupid Goldwater quote. There’s enough wacky statements from this guy to concern any reasonable thinking person. So, we’ll see what happens but at a minimum our opposition will be noted.
Thank you for all your hard work and for not giving up!
You have many people who support your work.
HSM’s own code states “I will endeavor to responsibly engage in the ongoing public dialog on issues related to illegal immigration.” This is obviously not something they do. What kind of person advocates barbed wire and machine gune turrents as a way to deal with anything?
Folks,
HSM does use intimidation tactics against anyone who disagrees with them. I sent an e-mail to the President of HSM and the VP regarding an observation I had made at the PW Co Fair last year. We exchanged several e-mails and then I received this e-mail. I have shared this before. In addition, I have removed the e-mail addresses from the content. Pay particular attention to the 3rd paragraph.
From: Steve Thomas
Date: 2007/08/17 Fri PM 04:34:02 CDT
To: Marie Aylesworth
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Concern About The Group
Ms. Aylesworth,
Please accept my apologies for my previous misspelling of your name. No
disrespect intended.
While I appreciate your clarification, I again will have to restate my
policy of non-engagement with illegal alien apologists.
As is my duty and function within HSM, I have done some checking as to who
you are, and what you do for a living. As someone who works in Social
Services I can appreciate the liberal point-of-view that you have, when
approaching the illegal alien issue. As someone who is a City employee, and
not an elected official, I commend your bravery in taking a stand on this
issue, albeit, in my opinion, on the wrong side.
Again, I must say that we will never agree, nor will we be able to convince
the other that their logic is flawed. This issue will be settled through the
democratic exercise of political power. This is the American way. The fact
that 73% of Americans feel as we do, convinces me that we are on the right
side of the issue. Therefore, a debate with you would be pointless.
Arguments such as “this is a Federal issue” are being rejected by citizens
every day, or haven’t you been keeping up with current events? I am only
being considerate and respectful of your time, and wouldn’t want you wasting
it trying to convince HSM that we are misguided.
So why don’t we agree to disagree? Let us settle this in the public forum,
shall we, and make this our last private communication.
Best Regards,
Steve Thomas
What gave them a right to check my background?????
This may go without saying, but Greg is often inaccurate when he writes his blog threads. This case is no different.
He is misremembering perhaps, but he is most certainly mistaken when he claims that Annabel stated we were making a film for Korean Americans only. I have the conversation on tape, so I expect he’ll drop this one.
During our first interview, I mentioned that we have a lot of Asian American viewers, and asked him to comment on Pat Buchannan’s essay blaming legal immigration, in this case Korean immigration, for the Virginia Tech murders.
http://mediamatters.org/items/200705010008
(For the record, Greg strongly denounced Buchannan’s sentiments.)
Also, I apologize for forwarding the email without removing the names of senders and recipients. There is not a “spy” among the three people I sent it to. One of them mistakenly thought it was a “forward it to everyone” email and sent it his list, which is extensive.
Elena, I commend you for your courage. Bloggers, I thank you for your insights. The situation may look ugly today, but I need not remind you it was much uglier a year ago when your perspective was being censored or not expressed at all.
Greg, I’m sorry we’ve run afoul, I truly am. But I feel a duty to put the truth out there. We have not posted a single video that contained something that did not happen. I can’t say the same for your writing.
Steve Thomas frequently posts on Andy Harrover’s blog - My Side of the Fence, he was a former officer in Help Save Manassas. These folks believe intimidation is an acceptable form of doing buisness. And it’s very brave of you to step forward Marie.
“We have not posted a single video that contained something that did not happen.”
Oh come on. Your bias, displayed in editing and shaping, could not be more evident.
Marie,
Thank you very much for reposting this email from Mr. T.
I wonder if they would like if a private citizen were to do a “background check” on them?
Rick,
You are very good about answering questions. Did you not see my question to you about infiltraiting the OPEN TO THE PUBLIC HSM meetings? I’m not trying to be a pest here. I am very curious as to your opinion on this. I do like your willingness to challenge both sides at times.
Bring it On,
Mr. T’s really no longer a board member of HSM? Please, do tell.
I came to this immigration issue as a person who grew up in the 50s/60s South and witnessed discrimination - even in such minor daily actions as drinking from separate water fountains or using the restroom. Does that sound like the fear some posters on BVBL have of some ESOL students leaving germs in the classrooms? I was a Yankee in the South, a girl in math and science classes, an FBI agent’s daughter during the rough of it. It gave me another perspective - that of questioning stereotyping and discrimination where I saw it.
I read the early BVBL when it was mainly political infighting over Republican candidates for office. It sounded too nutty for me and I didn’t return to reading it until the immigration debate roiled over and Nick Miroff wrote his article on Letiecq for the WaPo. Since it appeared to be the only blog covering local politics, I contributed. My opinion was censored so I took my concerns about PWC issues to email with the BOCS as I will continue to do. (And I welcome this blog as an alternative for those whose voices were silenced.)
For me, the immigration issue is one best solved federally because I believe our federal laws should be uniformily applied across the country. We should not have a hodge-podge of differing statutes but a reasonable national immigration policy. I think immigration quotas should be increased to a realistic level, citizenship should be given to self-supporting people who have been in this country for 5-10 years, paid taxes, obeyed the laws, and can pass background checks. The borders shouldn’t be a sieve, but ,realistically, people are going to have to decide how much they’re willing to pay for the technology and fence to close them. And recognize that many undocumented people arrive here by plane.
It’s my personal opinion that PWC’s adoption of the immigration resolution was a costly mistake. I’ll give the BOCS members the benefit of the doubt about thinking that the emails in support of it originated with their constituents although we now know that not to be the case. The resolution has divided the county in a way that was unnecessary, has cost too many of our tax dollars in a tight economy, and made us appear as an example of extremism not just locally but nationally. The problems some residents faced should have been addressed by an increase in Neighborhood Services staff. The person who set in motion this fiscal and social fiasco, Robert Duecaster, has now been suggested for an appointment to PWC’s Strategic Goals Task Force. The person who failed to have the foresight to envision the mess and expense which he brought to our county, our neighborhoods, our homes, is now being rewarded with a chance to determine our future. This is a nomination I’m proud to oppose. Greg’s plastering of my name on his blog won’t intimidate me. It’s merely indicative of his attempt to silence private citizens who have opinions unlike his.
The have’s and have not’s are not based on skin color in this day an age, Rick. The problem is created by an invisible factor known as documentation status. I certainly don’t want this inequity to continue. I’m glad you do not also. Prince William County has proven, if nothing else, how costly it is when you try to forcibly remove large numbers of people at tax payer expense. So, unless we want the nation to endure the same chaos and racial tension we’ve seen in this county over the past year plus, we’ve got to agree on a solution that assimilates undocumented immigrants into society. This means some form of legalization, and both your Presidential choices favor it, along with the majority of the American people. Are you with us?
Nope. Give Amnesty and you invite YET ANOTHER wave in - the line has to be drawn somewhere, I favor drawing it where we can preseve decent wages and standards of living for American citizens.
Chris - are the meetings open to anyone? I’m really not sure. I would have guessed they were open to anyone who had joined or thought they might be interested in joining - or was pretending to.
Eric B - you came and shot an HSM meeting and selectively edited to make us look foolish. You could have more easily edited the footage of Chief Deane to make him look like a buffoon - or should I say, amplified and condensed his natural buffoonery. Frankly, that’s what i would have done with the footage.
When you pan your camera around, I’m visible in your footage and I don’t really like that. I don’t know the details but my sense is that you pulled a “Borat” on us.
Thank you, Censored. You bring such balance and logic each time you post.
I must say I whole heartedly agree with you as one who also witnessed “white only” drinking fountains and rest rooms, blacks having to go to the back of the bus, white restaurants not allowing entrance through the front door. Blacks had to get food at the back door. As a child and a teenager who grew up in Virginia, I always wondered why. Many of the same things the Duecaster’s echo the words of the past and sound very familiar to me. I could not understand it then and can not understand it now.
But my point was that Greg’s attempt to persecute those who disagree with him reminds me of darker days in American history. Hate groups have always gotten a head start on the rest of society for obvious reasons. We just want to live and let live. But once it has happened that a hateful mob has transformed a community into an unwelcome and divisive place, there have always been ordinary citizens ready to stand up to them. Those ordinary citizens, including the early Abolitionists, are the one with the fortitude to stand up for the ideals our country was founded upon. Those who sought to oppress them? Not so much.
I decry racism. I think though that in the last 40 years we’ve been training ourselves so hard not to be racist that we’ve veered away from common sense and are now self-immolating.
The Rule of Law is not racist and national sovereignty is not racist.
Ugh. Rick, stop with the Chief Deane attacks. You really do reflect badly on your organization when you do that.
Rick, the footage you refer to doesn’t make the regular citizens look bad. It may be bad for some of the speakers but they chose to use those words. Steve Thomas chose to use that music. Much of the footage is one party’s sloganeering before elections. I imagine many of the citizens were merely there to hear the candidates.
I think even Letiecq had no problem with the coverage until his Gospel Greg routine fell flat with his audience.
Bring It On
I do not think I am brave I just I refuse to be intimidated. I responded to him by saying something to this effect:
Just because I am an employee of the City does not mean that I do not have rights to express my opinion. Since I am a City employee, I have never come out in a public forum to express any views I have politically. Since your organization is not a City operated or funded organization, I felt comfortable in expressing my views to you and your leadership. Because I am a Social Services employee do not assume that I am a liberal.
Thomas and his use of the music was always good-natured and humorous, obviously having more to do with his personality and background than the issue itself.
The meeting is one thing - the selectively edited footage is another.
Rick, but Thomas apparently didn’t research - or was oblivious to - the choice of Wagner.
How would you edit the sheer volume of footage that 9500liberty has?
“Thank you very much for reposting this email from Mr. T.
I wonder if they would like if a private citizen were to do a “background check” on them?”
A friendly word of caution Chris. If my understanding of your past relationship with HSM is accurate, and history any indication of how they might react to a threat like this from you, you might be inviting someone to start trashing you. Afterall, I am sure that during your time with that organization, you must have made comments that might be embarrassing today. Everyone has “dirt” in their background. You must have had relationships with members that you’d prefer to distance yourself from, conversationsyou had, trusts that were are perceived violated when you left the organization. If you truely want this rancor stopped, then you should call for both sides to cease-and-desist, not throw out suggestions that these preople engage in the same tactics you decry. In doing so, you become part of the problem. Very, very hypocritical. I have yet to see someone from the organization publically trash you for leaving. Can you say the same? If “Mr. T” has chosen to walk away, then why not respect that decision. Hasn’t the organization respected yours? Maybe he has left, or maybe he hasn’t, but you have all noted his absence of late. Why is that important to you? If he has, let him. If he hasn’t, why poke a bear?
On the email that Marie has posted on occasion. Maybe I am missing something. Was this posted on a public forum by anyone but her? Did the HSM crowd try to get her fired? That would indicate that it was a threat. What I see is someone responding to an email sent by Marie, and in very respectful language says:
I know who you are, and I see where your point-of-view comes from, and I respect your opinion .
I don’t think we can come to any agreement, because our points-of-view are polar-opposite.
Let’s agree to disagree and move on.
Perhaps a bit cocky, but not dismissive, and certainly not disrespectful. If there is a threat in there, I don’t see it.
People, if you EVER want to have a positive impact on this debate, you need to take a higher road. Engaging in the same tactics you complain about will get you no where. Have you ever even offerred to engage Greg in a direct conversation and work out your differences?
Rick,
I disagree with you. The Rule of Law in its purest form is not racist but the Rule of Law Resolution crafted by the BOCS was clearly an attempt to target Hispanics. Listen to their rhetoric. They never mention any population of people.
Sorry,
They never mention any other population of people.
Ed,
It was the fact that they checked into my background. They had no earthly right to do so. You do not call that intimidation or at least trying to intimidate?? I posted the e-mail so that others might see that they members of HSM sometimes use less than honorable tactics.
As far as I know I am the only one who posted their response to my e-mails to them. I did have an opportunity to talk with Greg L. earlier this year about the background check and told him I did not appreciate it.
I am not at all comfortable castigating someone for playing Wagner. i think that when you get to that point you should step back, take a look at yourself, and try to mellow out a bit.
(Even at that, the music is best known for the scene in “Apocalypse Now” ["I love the smell of napalm in the morning"] and I would think this is why he referenced it, nothing to do with Germany much less Naziism).
(Research that).
Marie - most illegal aliens in our region are Hispanic. Because of geographical proximity this is where they’re coming from and this is the border we need to seal. But make no mistake - me and everyone I ever talked to in or out of HSm on this issue wants to treat ALL ETHNICITIES THE SAME.
What’s happening is a Rorscach (sic) test for people. is the anger over illegal immigration caused by panic about hispanics, or not? Well I think it’s primarily “not”.
Ed,
BTW I am retired now so I feel I can express my views under my own name and openly. I could have expressed my views all along because of my 1st amendment rights. I chose not to because I would never have wanted to do anything as a City employee that might give the appearance of disrespect for the City Manager or City Council.
Rick,
You are assuming Greg has a conscience. I am not so sure he does. He repeatedly takes a shred of truth and spins a cocoon of lies about that shred in order to assassinate the character of someone he deems an enemy (which is everyone who doesn’t think like him or do his bidding.)
HSM has invited people to join them for meetings. They have almost dared people to come to one.
Rick,
It is about the dignity of ALL human beings for me. I have said it before and I will say it again. Everyone has the right to be treated with dignity and respect whether it is you, me or an “illegal”.
Marie,
What did this check consist of? Googling up your name and seeing you are a city employee, or did they pull your finances and get your mdical records? I don’t mean to be sarcastic, but really, what is dishonerable about entering someone’s name in a search engine, and saying “I see why you have X point-of-view”?
Now if they forwarded it to the City manager, or threw it up on a blog (like you did), then I might believe that this was an attempt to threaten or intimidate. Since that didn’t happen…
What’s strange is why you feel the need to prove that your were threatened. Will that give you “street creds” here?
Remember, curses only work on those who believe in curses.
“dignity”, “respect”, okay to a point as long as we the people have the right to expect our laws to be enforced.
“He repeatedly takes a shred of truth and spins a cocoon of lies about that shred in order to assassinate the character of someone he deems an enemy” …
American two-party politics in a nutshell.
Talk is cheap. At this juncture, considering the level to which the idiocy of intolerance is allowed to fester in your community, something needs to be done NOW about what’s going on down there in Prince William County. Enough is enough already.
Here’s the email I sent this morning to your Board of County Supervisors:
At the end of the day, what’s happening in PWC has absolutely nothing to do with immigration at all. This is about intolerance, particularly intolerance towards Spanish-speaking people of Hispanic/Latino heritage. The “immigration issue” is simply a convenient political justifier.
And it needs to finally stop.
Ed, I have to say, I didn’t even bother reading your post directed at Chris.
Either you are Gospel Greg, or you’re a cheap imitation, but you’re doing the same thing: purposefully assuming something that is just plane false so you can attack a false scarecrow as if you believe your own deception.
Chris wasn’t threatening anyone. It’s a simple turn of phrase. I think Jesus said it first. Do on to others as you would have them do to you.
She’s asking rhetorically how people from HSM would like being treated the way their leaders, such as Mr. Thomas and Mr. Letiecq, have treated others.
Rick, that’s what I mean by Thomas not researching the music. He thought no further than “Apocalypse Now”. He should have known to be careful in choosing Wagner if he had any knowledge of the history. I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt for making a dumb move rather than knowing the associations Wagner carries.
Ed,
I don’t know you. So, why should I considered your word of caution “friendly”. Anyways, I’ve not trashed them. I merely asked a question about Mr. T’. I am no fool. We all have “dirt” in our pasts, and yes that includes you, myself and everyone else.
I call things like I see them. That does offend some at times, and such is life. I have no desire to see things in this county spin anymore out of control than they already have. In my earlier post I clearly stated this was INSANE. Perhaps, I didn’t make it clear enough, but that goes for both and all sides. I’ve always said name calling and disrespect has no place in the debate.
Now, if you want to taken seriously, you should have the balls to give your real name, as I do. Until I know who you are and you seem to know who I am, I will engage the old ignore button on you.
HIGH FIVE AND A BIG THANK YOU, ROB PEARSON.
Robb,
It is interesting “hearing” your point of view from an outsider’s perspective. I fear the BOCS, hoping that if they passed a neutered down resolution, initially altered from Duecasters first draft, and then finally in the subsequent change in April, thought the immigration rhetoric would just go away. I have said this, to more than one supervisor, if you feed the angry beast (i.e. the growing hate and division), it will only hunger for more food. At some point, the Supervisors will have to stand up and speak the truth, from their hearts. Ultimately, until that undeniable leadership is shown to the citizens, I fear the extremism will continue to fester in our community.
Chris,
I love your forthrightness and tenacity.
Ed,
Now THAT was veiled threat if I ever saw one.
Chris you go girl!!!!
Ed, you seem to know a little bit too much about Chris for me not to see your ‘friendly’ was a little less than friendly.
You can bitch and fight all you want but, PWC still has illegal aliens. An illegal alien driving a car is just a bad as a drunk driving a car. Both are 100% preventable. Deportation and taking a cab.
We are all over the drunks as we should be with the illegals. All the other bitching and moaning is stupid. Illegal alien workers are not needed in the USA. Somehow our roads got built, houses got built, cheeseburgers were served and grass got cut before the hugh invasion of Illegal aliens. I know the USA can survive with them.
Amnesty sanctions illegal aliens. Anything you santion you will get more of. It’s not difficut to understand. No one has a right to enter the borders of the USA. It must be granted before you come here, not afterwards.
Dime
Boo Hoo, they’re threatening me! Boo Hoo, they’re so big and mean! Boo Hoo, Greg has a tattoo on his python-like arm that reads “Mama didn’t love me”! Boo Hoo, we’re vicitims of intimidation! Boo Hoo, they said they were going to beat me up! Boo Hoo Greg L kicked sand in my face! Boo Hoo.
I’ve seen most of you here at citizens time, Greg couldn’t intimidate you folks if he wanted to. You should have your own perfume called…..VICTIM!
“until that undeniable leadership is shown to the citizens”
Don’t hold your breath waiting for that too happen. Those with the most sway on the BOCS have too much to lose to rock the boat, Jenkins won’t endanger his own pet projects and Principe, at least at this point, is a lightweight. Unfortunately, Maureen and May are probably the best bets to stop the madness but I don’t think May has the stroke nor Maureen the stones to pull it off.
As I noted on the “other” site, one of the particularly onerous side effects of this “debate” is that it has drawn away from the focus on other important issues such as land use and transportation, to the extent that the Emperor Gerhart is free to craft all policy apart from the Resolution. Although the current debate has proven divisive, expensive and often times embarrassing, those other policy arenas hold the potential for a much greater, as currently constructed, detrimental impact on the county and its residents.
sorry, should read:
I know the USA can survive “WITHOUT” them.
Dime
“At some point, the Supervisors will have to stand up and speak the truth, from their hearts.”
You mean that they live in high-rent neighborhoods and don’t experience what it’s like when middle-class neighborhoods are overrun with flophouses, and that they benefit oh-so-much more than most of us from the increased business and dimninished wages that illegal aliens brought to town?
Rick, you are right about the 2 party system. It is sick and disgusting. However, those involved have millions of dollars in campaign funds and can fight fire with fire. The little people cannot. That to me is what makes GL so loathsome. His victims do not have the millions to defend themselves. There is no such thing as counter-attack.
Moon Howler,
Are you kidding me ? Your so called “victims” are not suppose to be in this county.
Dime
Mom is right. PWC is sidetracked. They are letting a few residents set the course.
The entire world spins on while PWC spins on its butt like a whirling dervish over immigration issues. The housing market is tanking, the stock market is tanking, parts of PWC are uglier than a mud post fence, and the talk still centers around illegal immigration because the chairman has hung his hat on this issue.
The newer folks to the county want open spaces and parks. The county still has not decided the outcome of Silver Lake. PWC keeps revisiting illegal immigration.
HSM supposedly rid of us of the problems. That is BS and more BS. It is time for the chairman to grow up and tell HSM to take a hike. It is time for the Gainesville supervisor to unjoin the organization. It is time for the anti-immigration folks to stop with the stupid FOIA requests and taking up employees’ time, It is time for the BOCS to get back to running the county and stop chasing after little tiny ‘illegals’ running amuck.
It is no wonder people become disenchanted with their local government. It is no wonder special interest groups take control.
We’re all victims of this sidetracked government and divided community, Dime. Even you. We all have better things to do than fight with each other. This whole thing is a tragedy, not of our making. The people who have lived here a long time are getting railroaded by people like Stirrup and Letiecq who’ve come along to turn us into a battleground for their own purposes.
Moon Howler,
Do you need a tissue? Maybe its this website that is part of the your problem?
Dime
Moon-Howler,
The “Resolution” and the Silver Lake debacle are merely twin sons of a different mother. My applogies if you are a member or supporter of the BRMC but their involvement in the Silver Lake fiasco, from Connaughton’s handling of the rezoning hearing to the present situation, is no less onerous than GL and HSM’s influence in the immigration debate. Nothing personal, but it is merely another example of the manner in which issues of the public interest are handled by most current members of the BOCS.
ShellyB,
The real victims are American citizens and legal immigrants.
Dime
Mom, no apology necessary to me. Others might not feel that same way. I belong to no organizations.
Dime, what an incredibly stupid remark you just made. Do some self reflection on that one. Let me see if I read you right…you can comment and I cannot. Ok, I understand now.
Good post, MH. The anti-immigrant/HSM/BVBL diehards followed Robert Duecaster’s advice. He didn’t have the foresight to see where the Immigration Resolution would lead so why should we give him a role in determining the future of this county. He’ll spend his time mewling about “benefits” any immigrant receives and bog down the rest of the committee in the hate that follows him everywhere. In the meantime, the BOCS will remain fixated on immigration. Perhaps one good thing that will come from next year’s mind-boggling budget cycle is the chance that the Board will put the silver bullet to the immigration resolution and its costs and stop thinking that running around with a little garlic around their necks will hold off Letiecq and cohorts. That crew (GL & clones) will never be satisfied and they’re wasting our tax dollars on their lunacy.
SA and Rick, if you were the ones being threatened with violence you wouldn’t dismiss it so easily (if you were smart, that is).
Moon Howler,
Are you trying to play the victim again? Is that you best argument? You keep trying to tell all of us to move on, nothing to see here, more important issues. Here you are everyday commenting. Seems to me that you are to one thats keeps bringing up this issue.
Dime
Slowpoke, you obviously don’t realize this has nothing to do with the immigration debate at this point. This has to do with people intimidating and threatening people because they don’t like what others have to say. This is the United States. I think GL and company have forgotten that and believe theirs is the only opinion that should be verbalized.
They can take their hate, their guns, their propaganda, their pathetic attampt at gag-orders and their agendas and stick it up their collective asses where it all belongs. It doesn’t belong in our government.
GL AND COMPANY: TAKE YOUR HATE OUT OF OUR COUNTY!
Dime, you are a victim too. You spend hours a day with your head and your heart filled with hate, all to serve this pied piper’s agenda. Don’t you miss your old self?
Mom,
Is there any hope in ending this merry go round of hatred? Maybe Connaughton could say something to wake people up? Maybe Tom Davis or John Warner? Prince William is becoming a frightening place to live, work, or play.
I find it interesting that Rick, Dime, and Ed are so off topic. The issue is NOT necessarily about immigration, but it IS about the debate and it is about scapegoating a certain segment of society. Let me remind them, Duecaster himself says, and I quote, “this is NOT about immigration, this is not about economics, this is NOT about illegal immigration, this is about an INVASION” Hello, anybody listening? He JUST told you that he believe we are being invaded by people from our border who have “anchor babies as their weapons”. It does NOT take rocket science to see he is insinuating that we have a hispanic problem from Mexico.
Dime,
Victim? When have I ever played the victim? Want to give some examples of that? Otherwise, you are just full of it like the rest of your little buddies.
Is it a merry go round, yes, of hatred, only at this particular point in time. The current atmosphere is only a side effect of the underlying problems, the end result of a Rube Goldberg like process of cause and effect initiated by the poor land use policies and planning that have going on for decades. Connaughton was part of the problem and unlikely to be the cure, Warner is all but out to pasture and Davis has his soon to open lobbying shop to worry about. No, there is no relief in sight from the current crop of local pols regardless their political flavor, if there is a solution it will have to come from without and if the atmosphere continues to grow in toxicity, perhaps the local population will grow angry enough to find it.
We do have a problem
They are hugely Hispanic. Because of geography those are the people who can get in here en masse.
They are frequently from Mexico.
Some use anchor babies to establish citizenship and it’s hurting this country.
Am I on topic?
If enforcing the law that the rest of us are entitled to “hurts Hispanics disproportionately” or offends someone’s politically correct sensibilities or makes illegals or those close to them feel uneasy, I for one don’t give a flying f***. This board was established I believe as a repository for civilized dialogue, and I try to work within a civilized framework, but my anger is deep and wide and I just have to take the time to tell you that my heart is not bleeding on this issue. And as I’ve mentioned before, at the end of the day I don’t really care all that much whether some of you think it means I’m racist, or not. It’s irrelevant to the larger (to me) issues which are respect for law, following rules (not just low-level workers, but large corportaions and the rich pr*cks who dominate our existence), and potential for wage equality within one’s own country. A desire not to see 20th Century history reversed, a desire to not see the middle class wiped out and my country turn into haves and have nots.
There is either a welcome mat out, or there is not.
Rick, you know, I completely respect your anger. I have family who feel the same way you do.
I don’t think you should point out Hispanics or Mexicans if you want to discuss immigration, though. That’s racist. Now if you want to talk about NAFTA or Mexican policy, then that’s another thing. Those discussions can be useful. But personalizing it to the people of this county, our neighbors no matter what their citizen status, just creates hard feelings and brings out the RAVING racists who really DO hate Hispanics because they can’t stand the smell of tacos or something equally as stupid.
You don’t need to bleed, but please don’t support people who want to see US bleed and HISPANICS bleed and MINORITIES bleed…..and I mean that literally. This has gone too far.
Elena, you said “It does NOT take rocket science to see he is insinuating that we have a hispanic problem from Mexico.”
While I don’t agree with some of what Duescaster says I don’t see how he is wrong with your summary of his comments. Most illegal immigrants are from the south via the Mexican boarder, it’s a fact. We don’t have as big of an illegal immigrant problem with Korean’s because they are separated by a sea, they can’t just walk over a very loose boarder. In your comment that I quoted, what is wrong about it?
I think that this is where some people here argue out of emotion because they either have family and/or friends (who are Hispanic) here illegally.
This looks like an extreme and paranoid attempt at “cover fire” for the Duecaster appointment vote tomorrow. It’s obviously of the utmost importance to Gospel Greg and John Stirrup that Mr. Duecaster be on this committee. Let ‘em!
Like “Mom,” I doubt the Board will show much spine on this one. It’s true that Gospel Greg has gone off the deep end … a little deeper this time attacking people who haven’t even said anything about him or the Disastrous One (McCarthy certainly came to mind but there are other even more deleterious villains of history).
My take: if the moderate members of the Board want to see John Stirrup and Corey Stewart further compromised by the radical extremists they keep company with, I suggest they allow this man to be appointed. Duecaster is beyond control. He couldn’t even stop himself from talking about guns and attack dogs on the SAME DAY Stirrup announced him for the nomination.
We’re looking at months of bad press, and months of discord, all of which will be blamed on Mr. Stirrup’s inane decision to appoint such a frightening figure to a Human Services committee. The patience of the public is already wearing thin. this could be the final straw.
I say let the Duecaster Disaster run rough shod over the committee, let him make outrageous speeches and drag the meetings on till midnight. Let him taint the entire process, and further erode the citizens’ trust and confidence in this Board and in this government.
Yes, our reputation and our local economy will suffer all the more. But the economic and social disaster these radical extremists have caused will be all the more tied to the utter failure of the Immigration Agenda of the 2007 Election, and the fact that these hapless zealots have not been able to let go of their campaign attack mode, nearly a year after the election has passed.
When Corey and Weasel John try to defend their seats 3 years from now, they’ll be sorry they let Gospel Greg stick his bony fingers up their sock puppet spines.
Rick, which fields/trades do you think have been impacted the most locally?
Any time there has been a construction boom, there have been workers who moved into this area to take advantage of it. At one point many white Texans moved here. My former neighbors moved down from Ohio and Pennsylvania to work on construction sites. All of these guys were competition to local tradesmen and only one of them that I knew was a union member so they didn’t have any wage protection.
Hello, First of all, please be careful not to assume everyone on this blog is Caucasian.
Those who are Caucasian probably do have family or friends who are ethnic anddon’t have a problem with it. It’s who we are as a country. We are a diverse society.
People like Robert Duecaster are unacceptable policy makers for us, not because we are “emotional” due to having friends or loved ones who are ethnic.
It’s common sense that has forced us to speak out. We are all part of the same community, and it’s simple practicality to accept that fact and not politicize it. We can’t attack one part of this community without hurting ourselves in the process.
To Chris and the rest of the Amen Chorus here:
My advice WAS friendly. I only know Chris from the few HSM meetings I attended last year, back when she was one of the leaders of the organization, and from the article written about her in the WaPo. She seemed to believe in what she was doing at the time, and I respect that. For whatever reason, maybe a crisis of consience, she decided to leave the organization. The reason is her’s alone, and I can respect that too.
I try read this blog every day. I also try to read bvbl every day. I only comment when I have something to say, and if you go back and read my comments, I am not rude or disrespectful of other’s opinions. I do believe that the goals of HSM, the enforcement of US immigration laws at all levels of government are sound and honorable. What has kept me from joining the organization is that I don’t want to become so focused on a single issue, that I stop caring about all of the other important issues facing the country, state, county and cities. The war on terror. $4+ gas. Healthcare, etc. These are all important. I don’t believe that if we get rid of all illegals, all of our problems will be solved, but I do believe that focusing on the ones that commit crimes and deporting them will help address the “ugly” side of illegal immigration. I think we need zero-tolerence zoning laws, which not only address over-crowding by illegals, but infractions by everyone else too. I don’t want to live next to a trashed-out flop house, regardless of WHO lives there. I also think that the original intentions of the ladies who started this blog are honorable. Nothing should just “fly” through government without debate, representative or direct. I think in the rush and emotion of getting the resolution passed, rational discussion was given short shrift. Both sides have become mired in petty name-calling and junk-yard tactics. BOTH SIDES
For the record, I am not a supporter of Mr. Duecaster. I think many of his comments are inflamatory, but I suspect that is his intent, much like many of the posters on both blogs. Also, if he did indeed make derogatory comments about the physical appearence of the ladies who operate this blog, then that shows a lack of class on his part.
In responding to my post, Chris, you have proven my point. Everyone perceives everything as a “threat”. Anti-bvbl trashes Greg, Corey, Duecaster, “Mr. T”, and throws around names like “racist” “nativist”, “nazi”, and more hateful things about people who want nothing more than the law enforced. Bvbl trashes Alanna, Elena, the 9500 liberty crew, and uses names like “communist” , “anarchist”, “leftists” and more hateful things. They checked us out. Let’s check them out. They put my email up on a blog, let’s put a picture of their house up on ours. I condone none of it. Both sides are in a death-spiral.
I wasn’t threatening anyone, but the hyper-sensitivity here is very telling. I pointed out that you, Chris, walked away from HSM for whatever reason it was. It would appear that others may have as well. If that is the case, then let it be. If you stir the pot, don’t be surprised when it splashes back on you. You know how it works. That’s all I am saying. If you want to know whether “Mr. T” is still involved, why don’t you just call him up or ask him, instead of turning to idle gossip and speculation? I am sure your must have spoken to him in the past and have his contact info around. Then you can come back and tell all of your friends what the truth is.
For the VERY few on both blogs who care about finding a sensible solution to illegal immigration, I suggest that you look elsewhere for answers. All you will find at either site is rancor, name-calling, anger, and even hatred for our fellow citizens. This isn’t partisan politics. This is a gang-fight.
I will not be visiting this blog or BVBL in the future. Neither side will give an inch. Neither side will discuss or compromise.
How can you point out the speck in your brother’s eye, and ignore the log in your own.
MOM is correct. We are being distracted. The appointment of someone (Duecaster) to a committee that will generate a report that no one will read and Gerhart will ignore is not a serious issue.
Gerhart and company, in alliance with the development community, are slipping “Centers of Community” right under our noses while everyone is focused on immigration. This will be a disaster for Prince William County. I posted at length on this, and referred to other corruption and shennanigans in the County government, on today’s thread on BVBL. Please read that. This is an issue upon which BVBL and anti-BVBL regulars can find common ground. I’d be delighted to share information, and likely seek support to rectify the problems in the near future, with readers of both blogs.
Elena - we have met in the past and I knew you as a leader among those seeking to promote sensible development in PWC and protect the Rural Crescent. If the BOCS approves “Centers of Community” in November, you can say goodbye to both.
This is utter chaos. People have the right to their opinions. It’s so clearly not about “immigration” at all anymore. These bullies want to climb on top of our Board of Supervisors’ desks and take over this government. They’ve been losing ground all year and they’re using these appointments to try to get some of their power back.
What does that have to do with “immigration?” Nothing. It’s about our democracy and whether we want to see our Supervisors bullied and pushed around.
You know who needs to stand up to this crowd?
Corey Stewart.
NGL - first of all, I never said anything about “everyone on this blog is Caucasian”, I’m not sure where you got that. Second, I didn’t say some people here “are “emotional” due to having friends or loved ones who are ethnic.” I said that they may argue out of emotion because they have Hispanic family and/or friends who are here illegally. Being ethnic has nothing to do with being here illegally.
I was simply asking Elena what is incorrect with the statement ““It does NOT take rocket science to see he is insinuating that we have a Hispanic problem from Mexico.” she had in her post. We do have an illegal immigrant problem and yes, they are mostly from south of the boarder.
Please read more carefully before you put words in my mouth, thanks.
Well, this may be hard to imagine. But if you are a person of color, it’s no big deal if you know people of color and/or have them in your family. You’re born that way.
And, people of color tend to have some solidarity with one another, especially when one group is targeted. That’s why you see dips in the African American community’s confidence in the fairness of the police and government, when it has been the Hispanic community that was targeted by the HSM crowd.
So, if you’re talking about someone who has sympathy due to known any ethnic person, you’re talking about a white person. It’s not a crime. Just reminding you some of us are not white.
kgotthardt, the arguement is largely about the illegal Hispanic population and the pandering our federal politicians do to the Hispanic voting bloc. Not all Hispanics support illegal immigration but many do, as it involves friends and family more often than it does for the rest of us. In terms of national politics, “illegal” and “Hispanic” are connected. The villians in this story - the elitist business owners who fight for cheap labor and the crooks who steal across the border - are going to continually use ethnicity to forestall law enforcement so I think we need to face up to the perhaps unpalatable truth that this fight, this disagreement, this struggle correlates in a major way to ethnicity.
In America, right now, if you are Hispanic and can pretend not to speak English, following the law is optional. I won’t accept that. I won’t settle for two sets of rules here.
What’s “gone too far”? What’s happened or is happening? An attempt to deport people here illegally, and discourage further illegals from coming here? Seems to me this is taking place without “blood” being shed.
If I recall correctly, Steve Thomas was one of the first posters on Anti? He obviously posts quite frequently on a number of different local blog sites. I’m sure he’d be more than welcome to comment here again.
“Rick, which fields/trades do you think have been impacted the most locally?
Any time there has been a construction boom, there have been workers who moved into this area to take advantage of it. At one point many white Texans moved here. My former neighbors moved down from Ohio and Pennsylvania to work on construction sites. All of these guys were competition to local tradesmen and only one of them that I knew was a union member so they didn’t have any wage protection.”
Yes. But they were used to a standard of living that didn’t involve stacking in to townhouses dozens at a time, so they needed to pay more in rent and they paid more in property tax per capita. So now they’re at a strong disadvantage as far as being able to compete with those who come here to settle for less and to make us all poorer.
Who is affected? Pretty much anyone whose job description doesn’t include higher education, or fluent English.
NGL - you said:
“So, if you’re talking about someone who has sympathy due to known any ethnic person, you’re talking about a white person. It’s not a crime. Just reminding you some of us are not white.”
What??? Sorry but I still don’t get what your trying to say here about me…
“In America, right now, if you are Hispanic and can pretend not to speak English, following the law is optional. I won’t accept that. I won’t settle for two sets of rules here.
I don’t think this is the case at all, which is why we have translators in court. I’m not sure where you are getting that, Rick.
What’s “gone too far”? What’s happened or is happening? An attempt to deport people here illegally, and discourage further illegals from coming here? Seems to me this is taking place without “blood” being shed.”
“Gone too far” means the hate speech, the hate groups, the targeting, and the violent threats. Rick, can’t you see these people are violent? You don’t go around talking about distributing weapons, showing up at a freaking 7-11 in army fatigues, calling yourself foot soldiers, advocating people to threaten a bunch of MOMS with GUNS unless you have a real screw loose. THAT is what is out of hand.
Witch hunting is out of hand. Spending every last dime and then some on a policy that didn’t work is out of hand. YES, we MUST fix immigration laws, but violence and bankrupting our county isn’t going to do a damn thing except make things worse.
I think what Hello is saying is that for him/her, it is difficult to imagine having sympathy for another group unless you know or are related to someone from that group. I can relate to this, and it is a truthful statement.
“Yes. But they were used to a standard of living that didn’t involve stacking in to townhouses dozens at a time,”
Unfortunately, some of “US” are used to that because we’ve been poor, Rick. Take it from me. I used to live in a “flop house.” It’s no way to live.
“Who is affected? Pretty much anyone whose job description doesn’t include higher education, or fluent English.”
Rick, we are all affected just in different ways. We desperately need a viable work program in this country, which is why I keep saying agencies that can hire immigrants AND citizens are the answer here. Agencies level the wage-earning playing field. They are competitive and fair. They offer health insurance. Please….someone listen to this idea????? It’s like no one wants to find solutions….they just want to create more problems and hatred because it’s easier.
I think what NGL is saying is that not everyone on the blog is Caucasian, so you can’t transfer the same feeling to everyone on this blog.
We have enough back-and-forth going on in this county as it is, people. This is small potatoes.