AntiBVBL

“The rabid supporters of the “crackdown” will no doubt say that that price tag is worth it to arrest 341 “illegals.”

The “rabid supporters” are called residents.

http://www.insidenova.com/isn/news/local/article/most_satisfied_with_countys_immigration_policy/20971/

This is the problem, Mando. Too few people know what a huge waste of money this has been. Too few people understand the nuts and bolts of the policy.

Too many have been fooled by the Anti-immigrant Lobby’s lies and propaganda.

Too many think like you.

But as the real story gets out, and it is, the ignorance will give way to outrage at what an inept and misguided government we’ve had for over a year.

“This is the problem, Mando. Too few people know what a huge waste of money this has been. Too few people understand the nuts and bolts of the policy.

Too many have been fooled by the Anti-immigrant Lobby’s lies and propaganda.

Too many think like you.”

So say the 10 or so propaganda pushers on this site? Residents are satisfied. ‘Nuff said.

Mando, you have the same thing to say about everything, and you never do any critical thinking. You are willing self-deceived, while most of the public is just plain uninformed. This report is the first one we’ve had that gives us a look at how this tragic policy fiasco has played out. Until now, there wasn’t anything truly definitive.

AFTER this report, it’s simply a matter of who is in the know and who isn’t.

And then there will be people like you, who hide from the know.

Did anyone here notice the part of the post article where they list the survey results, only 7% oppose the policy. That’s a pretty small number. Here are the rest of the results:

60% are satisfied with how the police are carrying out the immigration policy.
14% are dissatisfied.
7% opposed.
17% had no opinion.

This just goes to show how few people in PWC are opposed to the policy, 7%, and only 14% are dissatisfied. If your against it then this finally proves that your in the minority.

The numbers, if anything, demonstrate (1) the lack of wisdom (among other things) in investing outrageously excessive percentages of energy for only 2% results, and (2) the absolute and utter foolishness of the fear-based political posturing which drove that investment.

The numbers also can be seen as demonstrating what a far, far lesser problem “illegal immigration” is in PWC than certain fear preachers had pronounced it to be.

“Mando, you have the same thing to say about everything, and you never do any critical thinking. You are willing self-deceived, while most of the public is just plain uninformed.”

And you’re an egotistical assuming ass.

Mando, why don’t you read the report? Then you could make yourself look like an egotistical and assuming ass with some knowledge of what you’re talking about (and then accuse others of being the same of course).

Where ignorance is bliss, tis folly to accuse others of assuming.

Hello,

The fact that 60 percent of the public believe our brave men and women are being carrying out their duty properly with regard to the Immigration Resolution is NOT a good sign.

Remember, our Police Force is one of the finest in the nation, and their numbers are consistently in the 90’s when it comes to general approval ratings. Until this year, those high marks had been across the board REGARDLESS of ethnicity, which is a rare achievement. Well, that’s gone now. African Americans and Hispanics have lost a lot of faith.

It wasn’t the Police, in my estimation, but the behavior of the Help Save Manassas activists that directed the police policy, who gave citizens the impression racism had infected police policy. This is really tragic and unfair for Chief Deane and our fine officers to have to deal with this.

If so, Alanna, we should raise the money to make sure it is conducted.

Bring it On, you are so right. By the time the Supervisors are up for reelection, everyone will know what a huge waste of money this failed policy was.

The ones who want to be REelected need to start leveling with the people they represent. It was a tragic mistake made under intense pressure. They got it wrong, but a lot of politicians do, in particular when the people are in a hysterical bloodlust.

60% are satisfied with how the police are carrying out the immigration policy.

That question really has nothing to do with approval of the immigration policy. It asks about how the police are doing THEIR job. Remember that the resolution changed in the middle of the survey. I would have given them kudos also, and I don’t approve of the resolution.

I wonder how the tax payers, when faced with huge reduction in services or a 50% increase in real estate taxes will feel when they realize that getting rid of each of those 700 or so ‘illegals’ cost the county in excess of $16,000 a piece? I wonder how they will feel when they realize that ICE is really not their great savior? I wonder how they will feel when they realize that at a certain point, the outcome is out of the hands of the county and out of the hands of ICE? How about knowing that 5% of those deported came back and were re-arrested right here in PWC?

We need to keep our money right here in PWC where we have control over it. I vote for pouring a great deal more money into local law enforcement and into neighborhood services.

WOW, 11 million dollars and the police have arrested several hundred people that clearly are not being pemanently detained by ICE or deported?

Great points MH.

Where’s Greg’s coverage of this latest info on the impact of the resolution?

Good question Censored! Maybe he is getting his barb wire and machine guns ready

11 million dollars (I’ll take your word on the figure) for 341 arrests, but only 89 charged with anything.

That’s about $123,595 per charge.

Compare it this way: one charge is equal to (or just a slight bit less) than Chief Deane’s full annual salary. One charge alone.

So that’s 89 Chief Deane’s . . . for 2% results.

What we see demonstrated in this report, is that the research conducted, by many on partisan organizations is clearly on target. The hypothesis has been, if you ONLY spend money on enforement and NOT create immigration reform which included a required path to legalization, you will see and astronomical net loss to the economy. PWC is the experiment come to life and it FAILED!

Make that 89 and 2/3 Chef Deane’s, Robb.

You have to factor in the $80,000 (my estimate) Help Save Manassas cost tax payers in order to do their political witch hunting, mostly aimed at Chief Deane.

Cheif Deane reported that over 1000 hours have been spent by county staff responding to endless Freedom of Information Act requests made by the same Help Save Manassas cronies who helped inflict this law on our county in the first place.

Elena, you stated . . .

if you ONLY spend money on enforement and NOT create immigration reform which included a required path to legalization, you will see and astronomical net loss to the economy.

Absolutely correct. When considering the ROI (return on investment) of the $11 million spent on this enforcement against “illegal immigration”, the conclusion is obvious to anyone with basic math skills: a horrendously dreadful and wasteful investment; a very, very horrible return.

And anyone who thinks a 2% return on an $11 million investment is worth the investment should see a therapist.

Yes, Elena. But they were told it would fail before hand. FAIR had already found lab rats in other places like Riverside, NJ. A policy like this had already failed. A policy like this had already been rescinded less than a year later to try to patch together a ruined economy. Knowledgeable experts warned them.

But we had to find out for themselves I guess.

NotGregLetiecq, you stated:

You have to factor in the $80,000 (my estimate) Help Save Manassas cost tax payers in order to do their political witch hunting, mostly aimed at Chief Deane.

Good point. It also goes to show how fear-based activism can have such an adverse effect on a local economy. Imagine the other more productive uses $11 million could have had in PWC.

You’re right Robb. The Senior Day Care Center was one of the casualties that was most painful to lose. We are also seeing cutbacks in our school budgets (less students means less money from the State) and we are firing teachers.

The Gospel Greg Clones, including John Stirrup, have been instructed to argue that many of the students who left needed ESOL and are therefore undesirable children. But lest we forget, Corey Stewart’s own children were enrolled in ESOL for a time.

Not all children who’s parents speak other languages than English are “illegal” children.

From the WP article:

“It demonstrates the exodus of illegal immigrant criminals leaving the county,” Stewart said of the small percentage of undocumented immigrants arrested under the policy.

So in other words fewer “illegal immigrants” were arrested than expected because so many have been leaving PWC in some kind of “exodus”?

How in the world can Stewart quantify such an assertion when referring to arrest statistics? His politicking, and his obvious need to justify his stiff-necked position on the “immigration issue”, is astounding. I’m rather embarassed for the man.

So taking $11.3 million over five years, and assuming that 4% of all annual arrests/people charged are “illegal immigrants” (based on 2% rate per six months), that’s still only 20% of all arrests/charges in PWC over five years for that $11.3 million allocated for “immigration enforcement”.

That’s still 9 Chief Deane’s per year for the program ($2.2 million per year, $12,300 per charged person, 180 people charged annually).

Robb Pearson,

I’m not a math guy, but wouldn’t it be safer to assume the 2 percent rate would remain steady, or even decline over the 5 years as people who might appear to be undocumented (Hispanics) leave the county?

From what I understand, many families held on until the school year ended and then picked up and moved in order to protect their grandmothers from being deported….

In other words, $11.3 million over five years is $2.26 million per year to charge 180 people each year under the PWC immigration enforcement policy.

$6,200 per day.

Chief Deane’s total annual salary every three weeks.

All for the sake of 4% of all arrests/charges in PWC per year.

–Residents are satisfied. ‘Nuff said.–

Yeah. That’s why the numbers have declined since Stewart took over, right?

Riiiiiiiiight.

FortKnocks,
I hope you aren’t saying that we only have undocumented Hispanics?

ForKnocks, you stated:

[W]ouldn’t it be safer to assume the 2 percent rate would remain steady, or even decline over the 5 years as people who might appear to be undocumented (Hispanics) leave the county?

Whether the 2% every six months (4% per year) will remain the same or decline is so far an unknown variable. But assuming the rate declines for whatever reason, that only serves to further prove the point that $11.3 million is a horrendously excessive amount for a policy whose return/success rate has been proven to be incredibly incongruous with the overly abundant political energies and prejudicial assumptions that fed it.

Another nightmare and destroyed life averted by the grace of god and the embodiment of redemption, a jury.

Is it that, without any definable stimulus, these nightmares are being committed more frequently?

Or is it that, due to the ubiquity of videocameras nowadays, we can finally see what has been going on all this time?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJ93e7CJs9s

But Robb, if a guy hit’s .200 for the first half of the season (2 hits every 10 at bats). And then he hits .200 for the second half of the season (2 hits every 10 at bats), he’s not hitting .400, he’s still hitting .200 because the ration of hits to outs is the same.

Or did I flunk out of algebra 10 years ago for a reason?

FortKnocks, my bad. You’re correct, the rate remains at 2% whether for six months or at annual projection.

Which has the effect of making my point doubly more impacting.

I’m confused – you all say that we (as in PWC) are a disgrace to the nation and that people as far away as Utah and England are saying how racist we are, yet the very people that LIVE in this county aren’t educated enough about the policy? Keep talking out of both sides of your mouths.

Or are you just saying that PWC residents are ignorant and you all are the only ones that are smart enough to understand what is going on? Doubt it. Keep on calling government leaders racists and continue to watch this blog go down the toilet.

I know of no teachers who have been fired because of fewer students. All schools are still registering new kids daily.

A good interview with the head of Minnesota’s ACLU chapter explaining what happened at the RNC and how the Patriot Act was actually born. Thank you slick willy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrctYpUlFLk

I posted this on the WaPo sight after someone delighted in our self-inflicted catastrophe and called us yokels while at it (probably tongue in cheek, but still) …

Don’t call us yokels, but yeah, you basically got it right. We don’t have a catch and release program, but the Fed’s do. So we spent 11 million dollars to turn over some of the catches to the Feds, but come to find out that they end up releasing them after a hearing in some other part of THIS country. Then they release them and they come back to PWC.

We’ve had 48 people end up in jail in PWC all over again after being turned over to ice just a few months prior.

THOSE ARE JUST THE ONES DUMB ENOUGH TO GET CAUGHT DRIVING WITHOUT A LICENSE AGAIN.

Who knows how many others there are.

We wasted $11 million — that’s ELEVEN MILLION DOLLARS — to ruin our economy, to make us less safe by pulling police away from their actual job to do immigration paper work, and to give us a reputation that causes you to call us yokels.

Thanks Corey Stewart.

Soon after I posted that, the Gospel Greg clones got an email telling them to go on there an post something juvenile, false, or racist (some responded with all of the above). Why do people listen to Gospel Greg after all the times he’s disgraced himself?

Incidentally, Greg claims his blog is the best and he trashes specific people like Nohe and Principi all the time. His blog supposedly hasn’t gone down the hill, so where’s the logic YW?

Chris, please read more carefully. I said that those who APPEAR to be undocumented (Hispanics) are leaving the county. I would too if I had to walk down the street and have everyone, including police and even well-meaning people, wonder about my status due to the color of my skin.

Know why I say that? Because I’m white. I’m well meaning. I don’t follow this issue much. But the general climate here has played a trick on my brain. Every time I see a Hispanic person in PWC, I wonder about their status.

And it’s not because I want anything bad to happen to them. It’s because I don’t. But still, I feel guilty when I walk past someone and it crosses my mind. I wonder if they can tell that was what I was thinking.

God. I never used to think twice about skin color when I lived in DC.

Yeah, that’s because DC is used to something called diversity, Fort. You’d think some of that would spill over to the DC METRO area, but I guess not.

Hey, let’s stick Stirrup and Stewart in SE for awhile and see how they fare.

Anti-Defamation League Article
(FYI, they don’t report you unless you’re advocating racism.)

The ADL has reported Help Save Manassas targets immigrants, uses speech from hate groups, and has local elected officials in its membership.

NOTE: HSM is officially a part of FAIR which has been identified as a hate group. Black Velvet Bruce Li (described below) is a collection of hate speech, violent intent, and discrimination; the blog owner and HSM President are the same person.
_________________________
Immigrants Targeted: Extremist Rhetoric Moves into the Mainstream Capital Area Alliance Against Illegal Immigration

In April 2008, ten groups (in addition to an advisory group, the American Council for Immigration Reform) founded the Capital Area Alliance Against Illegal Immigration (the Alliance), a coalition whose mission is to “promote a united strategy of education, outreach and advocacy to end political and legislative support for illegal immigration in Maryland, Virginia, and Washington, DC.” To reach this end, the Alliance has stated its opposition to “sanctuary policies” and seeks to eliminate government-provided social services for undocumented immigrants in the Capital region. In the Alliance, anti-immigrant groups, widely viewed as mainstream, are operating in partnership with virulently anti-Hispanic border vigilante groups that monitor undocumented immigrants.

Ostensibly mainstream groups often conceal such connections; one of the reasons that the founding of the Alliance is significant is because it openly reveals these ties. Two anti-immigrant activists, Chris Simcox, leader of the border vigilante Minuteman Civil Defense Corps (and co-founder of the 2005 Minuteman Project) and Greg Letiecq of Save the Old Dominion, comprise the leadership of six of these ten groups. Glenn Spencer, who has promoted anti-Mexican conspiracy theories, is the leader of one of the other Alliance groups, the Arizona-based American Border Patrol. The Alliance formally announced its founding at the National Press Club in Washington, D.C., on April 10, 2008, and it has gained coverage in the mainstream media. Rather than discuss immigration policy, the Alliance has promoted classic anti-immigrant themes that demonize individuals. The press release announcing the Alliance’s formation states:

Sanctuary policies undermine public safety, school systems, and hospitals, and erode the overall quality of life for Capital area residents. The growing social, criminal and financial burden of illegal immigration has reached unsustainable proportions. Local businesses, Americans seeking jobs and regional communities suffer as a result of this lawlessness.

The Capital Area Alliance is comprised of the following coalition partners:
American Council for Immigration Reform (Virginia) – A non-profit anti-immigrant group, it acts in an advisory capacity to the Alliance. The Council works with several anti-immigrant activists and groups, including other Alliance partners. It has run ads in the mainstream media, brought activists to Washington, D.C. to lobby, and made contacts with elected officials. The group links its Website to similar anti-immigrant groups, including the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS), and NumbersUSA, and the Council’s blog includes a link to VDare, a racist Website, under the “favorites” section.

American Border Patrol, also known as American Patrol (Arizona) – An anti-immigrant group that uses high-tech equipment to monitor the flow of illegal immigrants across the Arizona border. For more than a decade, group leader Glenn Spencer, who mixes anti-Mexican bigotry with anti-government rhetoric, has warned of a plan by Mexicans to “invade” and “conquer” the Southwestern United States. Spencer moved his group from California to Sierra Vista, Arizona, in August 2002, in order to be, in his words, “on the front lines.” He has appeared at events sponsored by white supremacists and racists, and racist and anti-government extremist groups across the country have embraced his rhetoric.

Defend DC (Washington, D.C.) – Its leader, William Buchanan, serves as the Alliance’s Washington, D.C. spokesman. The group’s founding goal was to prevent the establishment of a day labor center in a specific area of Washington, D.C. To that end, the group held a joint demonstration with Help Save Maryland, another Alliance partner, at a Home Depot in Washington, D.C. in December 2007. The group’s information packet reveals its ideology: “Illegal alien workers are incompatible with a decent neighborhood. Public urination, public drinking, sexual harassment, and property intrusions are only the beginning…The fabric of the community slowly unravels.”

Judicial Watch (Washington, D.C.) – A conservative non-profit group that seeks to act as a government watchdog. It files lawsuits and engages in various types of campaigns to “root out government corruption.” The Judicial Watch Website was the first to feature the Alliance’s press release. Judicial Watch has, for years, been waging its own campaign against the “illegal alien invasion,” claiming that undocumented immigration is an economic and security threat. The group’s staff officially participated in the Minuteman Project, a month-long border vigilante exercise along the United States-Mexico border in Arizona in April 2005.

Maryland Minuteman CDC (Maryland) –A chapter of the border vigilante Minuteman Civil Defense Corps, a national group led by Chris Simcox and headquartered in Arizona. The two-year-old chapter mainly exists as a Web entity; its page is currently updated with news stories rather than actual chapter activity. In 2007, the chapter was more active. It held meetings, co-sponsored an anti-immigrant rally, and encouraged members to attend an anti-immigrant rally in Washington, D.C., staged by the Dustin Inman Society, a Georgia-based anti-immigrant group.

Virginia Minuteman CDC (Virginia) – A chapter of the border vigilante Minuteman Civil Defense Corps, a national group led by Chris Simcox and headquartered in Arizona. Chapter leader George Taplin has appeared in a mainstream documentary about immigration, spoken at several community events pertaining to immigration, fought to close a day labor center in Virginia to reduce the numbers of undocumented workers in the area, and has been quoted in mainstream media outlets. In May 2007, the chapter sponsored the founding meeting of Help Save Virginia Beach, a group created to encourage the training of local police to enforce federal immigration law.

Help Save Maryland (Maryland) – In its mission and activities, the group supports anti-immigrant policies, including empowering local law enforcement to initiate deportation proceedings, closing day labor centers, and removing benefits to undocumented immigrants. The group has chapters in 10 counties. Chuck Floyd is the Alliance’s Maryland spokesperson, and group member Pree Glenn-Graves, who runs the Prince Georges County chapter, was a vocal participant at the Alliance’s press conference at the National Press Club. She stated, “We’re going to start getting overrun in Prince George’s County. I can see it happening…I see it happening. Even our Kmart [sic] has been converted to Spanish. Everything is in Spanish and English.” In April 2008, Joe Guzzardi, the editor of VDare, a racist Website, quoted group leader Brad Botwin in an article he wrote and posted to VDare. Guzzardi’s article, which supported anti-immigrant activity, is featured on the Help Save Maryland blog.

Save the Old Dominion (Virginia) – This group is itself a coalition comprised of seven anti-immigrant groups: Help Save Loudoun, Vienna Citizens Coalition/Group, Help Save Hampton Roads, Centreville Citizens Coalition, Help Protect Culpeper, Save Stafford, and Help Save Manassas.

Three of these groups–Help Save Loudoun, Vienna Citizens Coalition/Group and Help Save Manassas–are positioning themselves as independent members of the Alliance. Greg Letiecq, an anti-immigrant leader and head of the Virginia-based Help Save Manassas, is the executive director of Save the Old Dominion and also serves as the Alliance’s Virginia spokesman.

Help Save Loudoun (Virginia) – Member of Save the Old Dominion; also a member of Help Save Virginia, an anti-immigrant coalition containing four subgroups (Help Save Herndon, Help Save Loudoun, Help Save Fairfax, Help Save Hampton Roads). Help Save Loudoun contains both a grassroots component (“formed to address and troubleshoot community improvement issues”), and a political action committee. The latter was “formed to promote the election of public officials who are dedicated to implementing immigration law enforcement measures at the local and state levels; and reversing the trend of illegal migration into Northern Virginia.”

Vienna Citizens Coalition, which also appears to be the Vienna Citizens Group (Virginia) — Member of Save the Old Dominion; it describes itself as a “multicultural group, of varying ages and stages in life” and the Website also states, “We can turn the tide on crime, day laborers, vagrancy, and zoning problems in Vienna. It’s up to us to take this stand and take back our town.” The group claims to meet once a month.

Help Save Manassas (Virginia) – Member of Save the Old Dominion. Greg Letiecq, the Virginia spokesperson for the Alliance, runs Help Save Manassas and Save the Old Dominion. Letiecq has attracted hundreds of people to Help Save Manassas through his personal blog, “Black Velvet Bruce Li,” reportedly one of the most highly trafficked blogs in the state. Having just commemorated its one-year anniversary in April 2008, Help Save Manassas, which claims to have 2,000 members, including elected officials, has proven to be one of the most influential and active entities in the anti-immigrant movement in the Capital region. Its legislative committee worked with a member of the Prince William County Board of County Supervisors and the legal arm of FAIR to draft a resolution that “seeks to deny services to illegal immigrants and sharply increase immigration enforcement by police.” The resolution was unanimously passed in July 2007. A group newsletter includes language representative of Letiecq’s ideology:

“Our county has been under assault from the influx of tens, if not hundreds of thousands of illegal aliens who have taken advantage of our lax enforcement of the law at the federal, state and local levels. These border crashers have contributed to rising crime rates, increasing burdens on our schools, hospitals and public services, and the very destruction of our American culture.”

Alanna,
Let me check the number from the budget report I have.

FortK,
Thanks, for the correction.

I know of legal families that have left the county too. I have one friend that told me she doesn’t feel like this is the PWC she’s spent half of her life in.

I lived in a very effected area, and I can honestly say I don’t wonder about everyones status us see. I do see some suspicious characters that I wonder about though. I do wonder what goes through minds when they pass whites on streets these days.

Well, I don’t know how to put my finger on it. Obviously the elected government for DC is a lot more representative of the diversity that actually exists in both communities. In PWC there are more African Americans than we realize. But the tend to be discounted for some reason. Anyway, of course diversity is not what protects against what has happened here. It would be more like a diverse electorate voting in a diverse group of politicians. They don’t have to be minorities but they should be diverse enough to protect against scapegoating minorities as a political ploy, which is ultimately what this seems like to me.

You Wish,

It’s not hard to explain how large numbers of people are ill-informed about the immigration issue in PWC, and yet we do not deserve to be labeled as a county full of racists. Being ignorant is not a crime. And it’s a little different from being racist.

The legislation has racist roots, written in concert with a certified Hate Group (that does not deny its anti-immigrant objectives). But that doesn’t mean that the people who are paying 11 million dollars for that policy, many of us unwillingly, are racist. And, it doesn’t mean that the people who live in PWC, but are not aware of the racist roots of the policy are necessarily racist.

Likewise, if some of us are unaware of the economic impacts of the policy, it doesn’t make us racists.

There is a link between ignorance and racism, as many in this region have shown in recent times, but it is not a necessary guarantee that where there is smoke there’s fire.

In any case, you can’t blame the whole county for what a few Supervisors and a local band of anti-immigrant lobbyists did.

Posted this on WaPo after a Gospel Greg clone posted another inane argument:

Yes, the numbers are up since May, but I have bad news for all the closet and not-so-closet racists who got emails from Greg Letiecq that they should post here:

Higher numbers of immigration checks under the new policy does not mean higher numbers of Hispanics checked.

The horror!

Yes, the new policy does not involve racial profiling! It checks everyone who is arrested, but it does not take race into account when deciding who to arrest, or who to question about status.

So, while more people are being checked, the law is being applied equally to everyone. So guess, what, some Canadians who have expired drivers licenses will also end up getting caught up in the system. Some Germans, and some Italians.

Yep, even the Irish. All the groups that the anti-immigrant nut jobs attacked in previous generations but now say they are okay and only wish to target Hispanics.

So, yes, numbers slightly up is fine with me, as long as we all have equal protection under the law.

(And tripled since May is misleading since May was the only month when we didn’t have a firm policy in place. April 29th was the day the Board voted to make the policy Constitutional and provide equal protection. It took the police force a while to get up to speed on the new policy).

The post above is flippant and overstated now that I look at it, but still basically true. It was never part of the policy to take race into account, but it was, I think, unavoidable given today’s social climate. Language proficiency was an allowable litmus test. So it could be just as Corey Stewart apparent gaffe yesterday revealed: we only check the Spanish speakers. This is really no different that racial profiling in my view.

Chris, I’ll bet that Hispanics are making less assumptions about whites than whites are about Hispanics. Because there are so many white people around, it’s much harder to generalize.

This is why Americans are so much more likely to believe lies about Barack Obama than they are to believe truths (however inconvenient) about John McCain and Sarah Palin. It is scientifically proven that people tend to ascribe negative feelings to minority groups based on encounters with a few. But they know better than that when it comes to majorities. Don’t ask me where I read that but I did.

That’s right, Fort. One of my first comments when I figured out what the BOCS was: “That’s the WHITEST board I’ve ever seen!” Guess I’m used to something a little different.

BTW, You Wish, thanks for visiting my blog. And don’t worry–I have a job and I manage to get all this done as well. I’m very productive!

Let’s face it, there are a lot of Boards where everyone is white. I feel bad harping about our board because, well, how’d you like to be one of the white Board members, say Frank Principi, being blamed for being white, and not only that, being blamed for the fact the OTHER 7 are white too?

I will point out though, as others have on this blog, that Frank and Marty Nohe are the two Supervisors who’s families are mixed race, and they seem to be the two who are most willing to stand up to the use of bigotry as a political football.

We love you Frank and Marty.

It’s not that being white is some tragedy or mark of shame. It’s more like, if you are going to pick on minorities, you should watch it because if your board HAS no minorities on it, there is a racist perception that Stirrup and Stewart make worse and worse. Now, the entire BOCS looks like a bunch of racists. Do I think they are all racist? Cetainly not. Do I think they now have another image problem? You bet!

There was an African American man who ran against Stirrup last election (can’t remember his name). He was very good but probably too new to the community. I would have voted for him in a hearbeat—he was all about unifying and improving, nothing like Stirrup. Why would I vote for him? Because he is black? NOPE. Because he wants unification and peace. Stirrup doesn’t know the meaning of those two words.

BTW, I give Nohe and Principi a standing ovation for having the courage to come up against all this BS that has come in the way of county improvement. They are the real leaders on that Board, not the Chair and Vice.

Good God, did you see the thread about trying to attack Gerhart’s office for having a communications department that functions?????

I think the headline at the top of this thread should be:

“Policy Failing, Confidence Dropping, Stirrup/Stewart/Letiecq FLAILING.”

The candidate who should have replaced Stirrup in Jan. was Corey Riley, a true public servant who does more for this community each and every day as a private citizen that Stirrup has in all his time in office.

Imagine if Frank, Marty, and Mr. Riley took on the racist-for-political-advantage crowd. Wouldn’t that be dramatic!!! We can only hope.

The Fiscal Plan FY2009 list the five year plan cost as 25.9 million! Now, we know that cameras are now excluded, so that number decreases to 22.9 million. I have the hard copy fiscal plan, sitting right here on my lap, so I don’t know where the 11.3 million comes from, but that is NOT what the county put in their packet they passed out a few months ago.

Are you sure? 22.9 million?

Positive

NGL,

FY2009 6.4 million (camera price tag reduced this number)

Five-Year Plan Cost – 25.9 million

If you have a fax number, send it through to admin and I will fax this to you

22.9 million or 11.3 million, both numbers are an unacceptable waste of taxpayer money.

But as alarming as it would be to find out the figure is actually double what we thought, I still can’t get over the 1.6 percent revelation! 1.6 percent of the crime committed in PWC is committed by undocumented immigrants.

Stunning. Truly stunning, considering all the rhetoric about crime, criminals, and invasions that supposedly justified this failed and disgraceful policy.

1.6 percent of the crime.

That means that more than 98 percent of the crime committed in PWC is committed by legal residents.

Whether it’s 11 or 22 million dollars, our Police Chief has been to over 70 community meetings, the department has been forced to deal with over 1,000 hours of extra work to deal with anti-immigrant lobbyists’ FOIA requests. All the studies they’ve prepared. The trips to New Jersey. The over time pay must be off the charts (not that they don’t deserve it).

Think about it folks.

Our Police Department is spending A LOT more than 1.6 percent of its time and resources on the tiny fraction of the crime being committed in Prince William County. What’s the real justification? A handful of angry citizens decided they wanted less “brown faces at the bus stop?”

So in the process of wasting and millions of million dollars of tax payer money, the government that WE elected has not only damaged our reputation and crippled our economy; it has taken our Police Department away from its core mission, and made us less safe.

I’m so disgusted, I don’t think I want to know, Elena. It’s painful. That money could have gone to so many worth while things.

Hey has anyone written to Corey Riley? That might be my next step. He’s in the right district.

I’m having trouble posting – if anyone was interested in the links to the citizen survey, I can try again.

Sure 77% of residents feel good about it, but they’re “uneducated” and “unenlightened”. They haven’t yet learned to “embrace diversity”. They’ll look up one day and miss the sound of endless Spanish chatter in the stores, and the sight of whole families confusedly crossing highways on foot, and schools and emergency rooms that have more Americans than Mexicans in them. It’ll all change, any day now.

Why do you do this? Why do you support illegal behavior and lawbreaking in our county?
Why do you say law enforcement costs too much, therefore we should stop enforcing the law? Why can you never admit that if the original concept of asking “everyone” for their “ILLEGAL” STATUS at any encounter with the police, you would not very soon and quickly find many, many more than just 630 some “illegals” that WOULD justify spending the SAME amount of money? You take a statistic and mis-represent it, 1.6% of the total arrests are “illegals”, I don’t believe that number, what is your data for such a calculation based on? You have no idea what happens to the other half of the deportation cycle yet you claim it is bad and broken because it can’t enforce a porous border (the reasone we are in this debate in the first place). Personally I’m sick of people whining that law should not be enforced when it is “inconvienient” to criminals.

By supporting such lunacy, you are hurting our community a lot more than whining about spending money you think is better spent on some “social” engineering program…When are we ever going to get leadership that can prevent lawlessness and actually enforce the law regardless of people who don’t want law enforcement.

When are any of you ever going to stop making this an issue about race? It is about law and the breaking of the law. You are all supporting more breaking of the law. I very much worry about our country when it is populated by people who could care less about law enforcement or law breaking, and get upset (even undermine law) when they simply can’t just do whatever they want. This is a sick and pathetic political position to side on.

I really, really hope someone holds all of you accountable for the impact you have had on our community and the impact you have had on the undermining of law in America. I hope it comes with jail time someday.

Your race-centric manipulative hateful discussions make me sick and sad for America…
When you can take race out of your conversation, and simply talk about law, then maybe you can finally rise above your own racial hatreds of others. So far I see none of that in this blog. You think racism is only one sided, it is not.

Liars.

Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we seek to deceive.

Homeland Security Agents Reveal Illegal ‘Shotgunning’ Practice

https://www.checkpointusa.org/blog/index.php/2008/05/26/p93#more93

Michael
Your accusations don’t gain traction just because you repeat them ad infinitum. I could stand on the street corner and yell “the sky is red and purple polka-dotted” but that doesn’t make it so. And I know what people would think of me if I did just that.

Micheal,
Isn’t it about time for “date night” with your woman? Oh, and aren’t you one of the many men that have a significant other that’s foriegn born?
You are really over the top tonight. Relax, take a deep calming breath and count to ten, dude!

Michael,

Why do you do this? Why do you support illegal behavior and lawbreaking in our county? Why do you say law enforcement costs too much, therefore we should stop enforcing the law?

Why? Why? Why?!?..you ask.

Because we choose to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTP8RvUW4ac

Yes I am over the top tonight. I’ll calm down in a few minutes. I’m angry. I’m not usually angry, but this constant drone of telling everyone we should simply ignore the law and support criminals has me angry. I spent too much time defending my country as a soldier not to be offended and angry about such political BS and damaging language for our country, our legal system and our very Democractic ideals. It makes me ill to think we have people in this country with such mis-guided morals mis-leading people with verbal garbage such as the topic of this blog thread.

I have only two issues:

1. Stop “illegal” immigration and enforce the LAW. Deport those who have broken the law.
2. Stop racists behaviors, racial hatred, racial, ethnic, gender and religious group political hate-mongering against everyone not like yourself, including the “majority” in a Democracy.

I see this blog as undermining both of these moral issues.

See mackie.. that kind of disrespct for our nation, our law and our Democracy is exactly what I’m talking about.

Slither, my anger is not toward foreign born. Yes, my wife is foreign born and even in that enlightened position, I see the “immorality” of what people are doing on this blog by suporting lawlessness and “illegal” behavior.

My anger is at people who break the law and then rub your nose in it, chanting, if you resist me I’ll tell my social activists on you and tell congress they are full of it…

That is known as “moral decay of society”. It is very common in “criminally” run nations. I have seen it in action.

Michael,
Wow! We all get angry at times. Thank you for your service to our great nation.

I think you had a broad brush out tonight with those earlier comments. All is just the wrong word to use. We all have varying opinions here, and everywhere else on this planet. That’s just life. I post here regularly, and I for one do NOT support illegal immigration. I am all for deportation. I am realist and know we can NOT deport on those residing in our country illegally. So, we must start with the worst of the worst. This will send a message that we will not tolerate illegal behavior. I also, believe all on this blog want a secure border, and all ports of entry to be secure as well.

Yes, the racist behavior, etc. needs to end. However, there will always be those extremists out there. This could be tough in the “real world” because it can get pretty ugly at times.

Now, as for the topic of the thread. I am VERY concerned about 48 illegal aliens being rearrested in our county. What’s really going on with ICE and our federal judges that hear these cases. Deportation must not be happening all of the time.
Lafayette

I’d like to comment to the Citizen Satisfaction Survey showing that perceptions of police and government now show a distinct divergence along ethnic lines. With African Americans and Hispanics showing precipitous drops in both.

My concern is that once ethnic communities begin to have this perception, things can snowball … with routine encounters with police being misinterpreted as racial profiling or harassment, when really it’s just that you were driving poorly or your music really was too loud. Soon, people become uncooperative or even impolite to police officers, and actual conflicts begin to occur.

This often happens in urban areas. And it severely limits the police’s ability to investigate crimes where the victim or the perpetrator is from one of the communities where trust has broken down. I would hate to have this happen here because our Police force and our Police Chief do not deserve this barrier to good police work. And the vast majority of citizens here in PWC do not deserve to see our public safety compromised because a few activists, two politicians, and a lobbying firm decided to use us a lab rats.

corr: am realist and know we can NOT deport *ALL OF* those residing in our country illegally.

For once I’ll speak in Michael’s defense.

With the reports that came out yesterday, I can understand why today is not a good day for him. I would be angry too if I’d been led to believe that the Immigration Resolution was necessary and some how worth the tremendous cost to taxpayers, to our economy, to our reputation, and to our public safety. He probably feels duped right now and is just lashing out as a coping mechanism.

Michael, perhaps you could take a night off from blogging and try to absorb the new information, starting with the fact that 98.4 percent of the crime committed this county is by legal residents.

You see, right now we have new information to discuss, so there is going to be less of an appetite for the usual arguments you like to make.

Michael, How dare you come here calling EVERYONE on this blog out when you are married to a woman who is out of status! How hypocritical of you. You have basically said you want us to go to jail. For what? For thinking?

Most of us feel that enforcement of immigration is a federal responsibility. We think that because of federal laws. Of course we want criminals out of our community. We are trying to find reasonable solutions to problems rather than running people out of town, putting up concertina wire perimeters and standing guard with assault weapons as suggested by some.

The data for this thread came straight from the county BOCS meeting. I am going to ask you to not come here making threats. If you want to participate in the discussion that’s one thing. I do not want you here if you are going to threaten people with jail time because they don’t think like you do. That is just too rude. I will ignore you if it happens again and I believe others will follow suit. You have just been over the top.

I used to think you were a decent dude. Tonight you haven’t been.

I just went up to read some of Michael’s comments in full. I think the jail time threat is pretty darn funny. Usually people bring up thought police to make fun of others, not themselves, but whatever. But I agree with him that this blog has had a big impact on the community, as well as on public policy. I would argue that April 29th would not have happened without this blog. Congratulations ladies.

Does the following comment bother anyone else?

Board Chairman Corey A. Stewart, R-at large, said that the flaw with including cell phone users was that there was no way to know whether they are here legally, noting someone here illegally would be more likely to rate the county and police lower because of the county’s strict policy.

Respondents were not asked about their citizenship status, Guterbock said.

How would a land line tell you any more about a person’s status? Corey seems a bit obsessed.

Actually, it’s even worse than that M-H. I watched the replay. That summation above is being kind, very kind, to Chairman Stewart:

Stewart said, “I notice that 4.5 percent of the interviews were done in Spanish.”

Guterbock said, “Yes.”

Stewart said, “Do we know whether those persons were legal residents or not?”

For those still watching… get your bullet proof vests on.

There’s a lot of people out there who think, like Michael, that jail time should be meted out to those whose politics make them feel threatened. Greg Letiecq comes to mind. National Security is their excuse to advocate the imprisonment of those who dissent.

Luckily, we were bequeathed a constitution to protect ourselves from such people. Unfortunately, we’ve taken this inheritance for granted and have squandered much of it through neglect. Despite the undeniable evidence of it’s benefits, some people even think it’s fashionable to turn their nose up at the notion of a constitution.

We’ve got to pay attention.

http://www.roadblock.org/federal/casefed.htm

Supreme Court Justice Douglas. The prophetic voice in the wilderness:

To give the police greater power than a magistrate is to take a long step down the totalitarian path. Perhaps such a step is desirable to cope with modern forms of lawlessness. But if it is taken, it should be the deliberate choice of the people through a constitutional amendment. [392 U.S. 1, 39] Until the Fourth Amendment, which is closely allied with the Fifth,4 is rewritten, the person and the effects of the individual are beyond the reach of all government agencies until there are reasonable grounds to believe (probable cause) that a criminal venture has been launched or is about to be launched.

There have been powerful hydraulic pressures throughout our history that bear heavily on the Court to water down constitutional guarantees and give the police the upper hand. That hydraulic pressure has probably never been greater than it is today.

Yet if the individual is no longer to be sovereign, if the police can pick him up whenever they do not like the cut of his jib, if they can “seize” and “search” him in their discretion, we enter a new regime. The decision to enter it should be made only after a full debate by the people of this country.

Chris what is bullet proof vests code for?

NotGL,
Mr. L spoke at Citizens’ Time, and then a second time for a Public Hearing regarding zoning of Orchard Glen. While speaking regarding the property which is on Coverstone Drive(new part). He started out by saying “Glad I decided to hang today for a little while”. Then he went to on to say that this property was near a Day Labor Site, with graffit, trash, and soiled diapers. He then proceeded to say they had offered to volunteer for the Clean Community Council to clean this property up. He said the CCC told them only the police could abate graffiti. Then onto say he’d talked to a friend that’s a PWPD officer, and happens to be a member of the GA. I don’t know why he just didn’t go ahead and all out drop Jackson’s name. Anyways, he said “what would help this property would be some barbed wire and machine gun turrets”. So, I was being a smart a$$ by saying get your bullet proof vest on.

Then Mr. Duecaster spoke regarding the property as well, and he said he used to walk his doberman with a loaded gun. Now, he doesn’t walk with a loaded gun. He agreed the with the barbed wire concept and thought the last comment was a bit overstated regarding the machine guns. But he certainly took exception to Mr. L’s machine gun comment.

I hope this helps. Sorry, for the long version. I don’t think everyone understood Mr. L spoke two times last night once at Citizens’ Time & then for a Public Hearing.

Okay. Thanks Chris. Good to know the implication was WORSE than I thought. Don’t know why I’m surprised. I suppose I should be happy the Duecaster Disaster is threatening us with single shot weapons instead of automatic weapons.

I’ve heard that line before though. I think one of the anti-immigrant clones use that same rehearsed tag line about walking with guns before we trashed our county budget and our reputation, and without guns afterward in a Washington Post article.

In both cases, the implication is brown skin people make me want to reach for my gun. Sad.

NotGL,
In all fairness I don’t think Mr. Duecaster was threatening with guns he was just exercising his right to bear arms, and I have no problem with that. I do have a problem with the sole-spokesperson of a grassroots non-profit organization wanting to solve the problem with marchine gun turrets. This is alarming!! And yet they wonder why some view the HSM Crime Prevention Unit as borderline vigilantism. I really don’t think all the members of HSM would approve of that comment being made on their behalf. I know I sure wouldn’t want that said for me.

The beauty of a democracy, Michael, is that we don’t have to just shut up and take it. You tell us that even in opening our mouths and giving our opinions a voice, we hurt society. You are a big believer in the democratic process, but your hope that some of us will be silenced seems more characteristic of totalitarianism.

You seem to not want us to express an opinion against what you see as the majority. Until said “majority” passes a law via the democratic process that says I can’t speak or write when I see a social injustice, I will keep on talking. I am sorry that you want to put me in prison for it.

So lets see, if we spend tons of money to eliminate gangs as an example, and six months after we start we find zero gangs, then was the effort a failure or a huge success? From your point of view it would be a failure yet the problem was eliminated making it a success in my book.

So SA which is it, your position that zero gangs exist or LePinhead’s position that they’re thriving in portions of the Gainesville District? Your “success” is belied by LePinhead’s assertions of multiple gangs that make it unsafe to aid Community Services. Or could it be that the position depends on the issue at hand and that the truth is a flexible concept dependent on which set of “facts” you choose to use in support of your position. Seems like you guys are all over the board and don’t believe anyone will catch on to your inconsistencies. Your serve.

That’s my point. First you have to establish the level of a problem before you can determine if the solution was successful. No determination was made about the level of criminal illegals before the Resolution, and so the low numbers could reflect that either there were few or they all got out of town because of the Resolution. It’s your pick, but I’m sure those numbers would be steadily increasing had the Resolution not been implemented!

SA, you don’t think that the construction jobs drying up has anything to do with people leaving town? Why stay here if there is no work.

I miss your point here. Are you saying that there are no gangs left?

Chris, I don’t object to people bearing arms in an appropriate setting. You have to wonder though when the subject comes up repeatedly with the same individual. If I walk around with a loaded gun and a doberman, and continually talked about it, what would you think about my …stability? I don’t think that is how I would want to live my life.

SA, lets make sure I have this straight, by your standards it is appropriate to base public policy, in this case funding, on an unsupported foundation and then determine that it is a success, again without factual support, because the subsequent circumstances may or just as likely MAY NOT have anything to do with the funded policy initiatives. Even if that is that is the case, what is the upper limit you are willing to place on funding such fiscally unsound practices? Sounds like you’re getting a little wishy washy here, was there a real problem that needed a solution (as you have asserted before) or is more about posturing based on an issue that had “No determination … about the level of criminal illegals”, your words not mine. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t disagree that there is/was a problem that needed to be addressed, I just take issue with the process used to address it and the manner in which it was funded to the detriment of other priorities. Umpteen millions for a policy which may or may not have had a measurable impact and no money for a relatively inexpensive senior daycare program, poor public policy, political posturing and electioneering at its worst.

Oh, almost forgot, is it good public policy to appoint a Doberman walking, pistol packing, potentially unstable denizen of the fringe to the Strategic Plan Committee? What’s next Monsieur Molleur’s appointment to the LUAC or Editorial Board of the MJM?

–Buy guns and ammo during the hiatus Mando. They scare the $hit out of liberal politicians, fat broads, and illegal invaders__

Robert Duecaster to Mando on BVBL

Hmmmm….I take this as a direct threat. Doesn’t sound appropriate to me.

Keep your guns and your violence out of our streets, Duecaster et al.

Go hunting or something. Donate the deer meat to charity. Or go shoot yourselves if that’s what you want to do. But leave me and others the hell alone. Just because we have opinions doesn’t mean it’s open season on your political opponents.

And Mando, in spite of himself, is probably way too smart to take this ill-intended advice from a wacko.

Mom, you own the day. In the past 2 posts you have summed up pretty much everything I think about this matter. Thank you for your insight and humor.

Michael . . .

Calm yourself. You’re going to type yourself into a stroke.

You stated:

I really, really hope someone holds all of you accountable for the impact you have had on our community and the impact you have had on the undermining of law in America. I hope it comes with jail time someday.

Jail time? Undermining of law in America? Certainly you are joking.

Michael, law hasn’t been undermined. The exact opposite, in fact, happened in spite of what folks on this blog have done to state their opposition to the sentiments of Stewart, Letiecq, etc.

A law was passed in PWC to crackdown on “illegal immigrants” and enforcement of that law was carried out (just the way you like it). The first six-month report was given by Chief Deane a few nights ago and it revealed that only 2% of all individuals charged after arrest during the past six months were “illegal immigrants”. Only 2%.

So it would seem the “impact” you are fantasizing about is indeed that: fantasy.

In light of the data provided by Chief Deane, what is therefore happening on this blog, Michael, is entirely legitimate discourse regarding the fact that 2% reveals that the “problem” of “illegal immigrant criminals” in PWC was massively overhyped. In fact, the 2% figure goes to show that the likes of Stewart and Letiecq inflated the issue to suit their own fear-based political positions.

It also shows that taxpayer dollars allocated/expended for a program that reels in only 2% of all individuals arrested and charged are incredibly excessive. And taxpayers have every right to complain about how the government misuses their money.

And then we see your paranoid rant about how people should go to jail because you don’t agree with their politics and their right to freely express themselves thereto. Next thing you know Corey Stewart will be listening to you and will attempt to pass a PWC version of the Alien and Sedition Acts (1798; read about it here; right up your alley).

LOL LOL! Robb…..

Yeah. Happy 9/11, folks. We’re all traitors. See you in jail for blogging and having friends.

Speaking of which, remember to put a flag in front of your house or on your vehicle to day to remember and pray for the victims of the REAL terrorists who are violent and insane with hatred.

Oh Michael, I feel bad about missing your comments yesterday. You went all over the world to serve this country and you missed your chance of learning about other people. You are like Lou Dobbs, married to a foreigner but failing to understand immigration issues. I don’t know if we will see jail time but I am pretty sure that the 3 million anchor babies who are experiencing all these problems with people like you won’t forget it.

Ricardo Bentley, What should I think about you when you call Mexicans to the Latinos speaking Spanish? I guess you don’t care because in your biased world, your opinion is the only one that matters.

Next thing you know Corey Stewart will be listening to you and will attempt to pass a PWC version of the Alien and Sedition Acts (1798; read about it here; right up your alley).

Shhhhh, Robb, don’t give them any ideas. lol

Dobermans and guns… Spells “wussy”, “dope dealer”, or “rapper wannabe”. How’s that for stereotyping?! Wonder which Duecaster casts himself as?

Tom Kopko (posing as Second Alamo), don’t you think that if your lazy analysis were true, we’d see the percentage of crime being committed by undocumented individuals go down over the six months that the Immigration crack down has been in effect? It’s remained consistent. 1. 6 percent. That’s a good indication of what it was before the Resolution. 1.6 percent.

Why can’t you just admit that you facilitated a take-over of the county government by a Washington DC Anti-Immigrant Lobbying firm because you thought it would help extremist Republicans win the election last year (and bully the BOCS with less and less effectiveness)? And why don’t you just admit that you helped them lie to us about there being a crime problem in the county commensurate to the presence of “brown faces” at the bus stop?

The only supporters you have left in this county are all about reducing the number of brown faces, and they don’t even try to hide it. If anyone still believes the bogus claims about a correlation to crime statistics, they are pathetic and deceived pawns in an ugly political agenda.

Mom,
Here here to your excellent comments!

OK, maybe I’m a little tired here, but doesn’t the fact that only 2% of those arrested for crimes in the last six months were illegal immigrants reflect the fact that many illegal immigrants up and left PWC within the last year? It seems that cirminal illegal immigrants would have been the most likely to flee first, rather than risk possible deportation.

Hmph, almost 12 hours and nothing but crickets from SA.

” out of 907 detainers released to ICE, 48 were not only back in the county but rearrested. 48 out of 907 were rearrested in the county! Is ICE just turning around and releasing everyone? It sure looks that way to me.”

Let’s see, 48 out of 907 = 5 percent?

Five percent is hardly “everyone,” no matter how you spin it.

I apologise to everyone for my angry outburst yesterday. I am simply fed up with the abstraction and blurring of issues and the manipulation of legal and illegal concepts into “anything goes” attitudes including lawlessness. I do not wish for people to go to jail for simply speaking out, that is not my concern nor my desire unless you are actually breaking the law. I just needed some time to cool down, so I can think before I speak.

I don’t think people understand well the boundary between free speech and criminal anarchy, legitimate political activity and conspiracy to commit riot and terrorism.

I don’t think people understand the boundary of freedom to assemble and the legitimacy of protecting the nation from political terrorists, anarchists, socialists and political criminals (like the type that eventually became Joseph Stalin or Saddam Huseein, or the Head of the Department of State for Sudan.)

I don’t think people understand the real reason we need to uphold and execute all laws to maintain stability, peace and fairness to the majority of the Democracy who elected officials who created those laws, and the need to prevent lawlessness, criminals from operating and people who destroy Democracy from operating as politcal activists, political criminals and political sabateurs of Democracy and Justice in our nation.

We change the law by voting, not by undermining its execution once its been voted on.

That is what makes me so angry about some people on this blog (not all). They simply advocate that we not support the law (it costs to much, it creates opportunities for people to claim racism and racial profiling, it provides an opportunity for people who want to create racism and racial/ethnic hatred to only advocate for laws that help their racial, ethnic, gender or religious political group and that hurt and undermine the “rule” of majority law in a Democracy.

Like I said I have only two issues. They are moral and just. Every comment I make is to be guided by those two moral concepts whether you like them or not.

I have only two issues:

1. Stop “illegal” immigration and enforce the LAW. Deport those who have broken the law.
2. Stop racist behaviors, racial hatred, racial, ethnic, gender and religious group political hate-mongering against everyone not like yourself, including the “majority” in a Democracy.

I see this blog (specially anarchic persons on it and anarchic themes occassionally on it) as undermining both of these moral issues.

I will speak out against any person who undermines those concepts whenever I see people lump
“racists” and “illegals” together with “legals” and concerned “social activists” and CALL ALL of THEM WONDERFUL and JUST. There is clearly a dividing line between moral and immoral and that is called “public” law. No one is immune from this and jail time usually accompanies those breaking of it, including the provisions of the patriot act by conspiratory “activists” and so called “journalists” who break the law and get themselves into legal trouble assuming they are immume from “illegal” and descructive behavior by claiming over-arching freedom of assembly rights. Bad things take precedence over good things when the law is concerned.

I don’t care if we find only 2% “illegals” at all arrests made. I still find that number hard to belive and wonder ho that figure was politically manipulated, when I know we have 5000-8000 “illegals in our country alone and 12-15 Million in the country. Whatever the “eviction rate”, that is 2% less “illegals” we have to deal with the next 6 months and 4% less we have to deal with per year. If we find 2% every six months, we should get them all in 25 years, just in time to reduce the impact on the country of severe overpopulation and running out of oil.

I’m willing to wait that long and spend whatever it takes of my tax dollars to eliminate the “illegal” entry problem once and for all. It will save us “billions of dollars in future costs and problems eliminated in the country in 25 years.

I see it as a fantastic use of our resources to enforce law. I can think of no better cause to the betterment of our society than eliminating the harm it does to the “majority” population who voted in this Democracy to create these laws some people want to politically undermine.

To not enforce law is to invite criminalization of the political infrastructure in our society and the eventualy spiral into an unethical and immoral community.

As some people say…That security is “priceless”.

So I disagree with you it is a problem to enforce law and deport “illegals” and to stop racial hatred caused by ethnic group political alignment and political activity. I see it as an imperative to the health and welfare of our entire society, our Democracy and our legal system.

Michael,

“We change the law by voting, not by undermining its execution once its been voted on.”

I think this is THE problem! The gray area of ‘uh oh, now what?’ and the reasons of voicing opinions and frustrations.

Knowledge is learned and shared everyday. It is a cop-out to say that we can’t do anything until the next term. I call bullsh$t.- as in that would be to easy. ALWAYS question and be OPEN to what other people have to say.

I see the return of 48 “Illegals” multiple times as a good reason to increase the penalties of the “breaking” of immigration law, and increasing law enforcement at the borders to prevent re-entry.

Red Dawn, I prefer to refer to changing law through political advocacy as “structured and rational debate”, like is done on the congressional floor and writing your congressman, not voiceing frustrations as I did yesterday. Opinions matter, but finely tuned (not wildly abstract, emotional, sympathetic, and all over the place) intellectual debate matters more, especially in the area of the wisdom of the law and the obligation of a non-criminal society to enforce it once made.

Michael,

I get that and agree as in ‘cooler heads prevail’. I do NOT advocate anarchy or tyranny but I do PROMOTE questioning, SHARING and raising concerns LOUDLY -as not many people are OPEN-minded and are complacent which does us no good either. This is why I will even explore ‘crackpot conspiracy theories’ lol. ( being open minded and listening) EVERYONE has the right to make up their own mind. Knowledge is powerful but ACTION is key.

Hey Mom,

SA has to work for a living so I can pay my required share of taxes. Us citizens don’t get a tax break you know, and I probably wouldn’t get away with putting a billboard in my yard for a year without getting fined either! Rough life we legals have! ; )

The majority of people on this blog recognize that there is a problem in this county with illegal immigration. We simply do not like how this county has gone about solving the problem. We do not think the methods have been effective and we have concerns over the process because of tones coming from government and citizens that create fear and hate.

Additionally, we do not like HOW the change took place. There was never a public hearing. There was a marathon citizens’ time. People were ignored. The outcome was predetermined. An outside advocacy group (F.A.I.R.) provided a great deal of input to those who wanted the Immigration Resolution. Those of us who preferred a different approach to problem-solving simply got out-shouted, ridiculed, ignored, dismissed and/or called names.

I certainly hope Michael, that you are not advocating that we get sent to jail for our thoughts and for voicing our opinions. That would violate the very principles upon which our country was founded.

“I certainly hope Michael, that you are not advocating that we get sent to jail for our thoughts and for voicing our opinions. That would violate the very principles upon which our country was founded.”

I yield my time on the floor to Sen./Rep., Big Mack.

Still doing battle on Washington Post website. Those clones are dogged. Once they find out the truth is available, they become very unsettled about the veracity of their lies. Here’s my latest rebuttal:

Are the Anti-Immigrant Clones still trying to filibuster this comments page? Dunces, if someone is reading the comments, that means they’ve read the article.

That means they know that only 1.6 percent of the crimes committed in Prince William County are by undocumented individuals. You just can’t post some idiotic lie you got from F.A.I.R. or some other hate group and expect to cover over official police statistics.

This county has spent 11.3 million dollars to deal with a problem that wasn’t a problem.

A lot less could have been spent to enforce housing codes, instead of lying and pretending you believe that all brown skinned immigrants are criminals.

Now you’ve been proven wrong, or liars, or both. Why repeat the lies on this page of all pages?

Government links found on MAGIC. Here is the link:
http://www.pwcgov.org/library/magic/index.htm

Descriptor from the website:

MAGIC, the Management and Government Information Center, is located at the Chinn Park Regional Library in Prince William, VA. MAGIC is your source for information relating to Manassas, Manassas Park, Prince William County, Virginia and the United States. Our information service and collection is available to citizens, local government employees and elected officials.

Directory of Government Officials
Directory of City and Town Officials

They Represent You 2008 is a publication of the Prince William Area League of Women Voters. Some of this information may have changed since its publication. For updated information, please contact MAGIC 703-792-4880.

The MAGIC collection includes:

Codes of Prince William County
and the cities of Manassas and Manassas Park

Code of Virginia

Virginia Administrative Code

Virginia Register of Regulations

Code of the United States

Federal Register

Code of Federal Regulations

Congressional Record

Information files pertaining to the local jurisdictions and the state of Virginia

Local newspaper articles pertaining to the local jurisdictions are filed by subject

Periodicals of interest to management and local Government issues

For Michael:

Washington Post Article:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/09/AR2008090903387.html

Streaming video:

http://pwcgov.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?view_id=2&clip_id=110

You can call the county and ask them to email or fax you the handouts/power point presentations/slides used during the meeting. They will do it. Perhaps someone will post the contact person.

Having said that, Michael, you have argued with everything we have said about data we got from the county. You need to check out the above sources. I don’t accept that you don’t have time. I didn’t have time either but I grabbed the meeting on dvr and sat up way later than I wanted to just so I would be informed. I accept nothing less from anyone engaging in the debate. Know the facts and details as presented. There was a great deal of info presented and it will take time for us to absorb it all.

Frankly, I resent putting in the time I have put in to educate myself on the most current issues, only to have someone who obviously didn’t watch the meeting come in and discredit that which everyone is saying.

Still battling on the Washington Post website. This time some loon is questioning the classification of FAIR as a hate group:

FAIR hires minorities to work for them, and they create front groups that look as if they have minorities in them. But these front groups are only websites, and have no actual membership to speak of.

You know very well why FAIR is a hate group. It is well documented that they were founded by white supremacists and eugenicists, that a good portion of their funding comes from the Pioneer Fund, a white supremacist organization, and their board members are associated with or members of white supremacist organizations, and they make no bones about their opposition to immigration period … they care not whether it is legal or illegal immigration.

It’s an age old way of oppressing minorities, you “clean up” your act by only attacking those who are breaking the law … and using propaganda to dupe people into thinking the entire ethnic group are all criminals, so therefore the people can be turned against the entire group.

Your philosophical progenitors used the same tactic against Italian, Irish, and German immigrants. They used it against Blacks when they moved out of the rural south into the suburbs and cities. Now it’s Hispanics you are targeting, only with new technology and racists in the media (Lou Dobbs, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity) you are getting farther than you ought to.

Like the Know Nothings and the KKK, you will soon go the way of all hate groups in America, back to the margins, back to the discredited minority that you are and always have been.

Oh, and just because a few clones are willing to type the words “I am half Hispanic” doesn’t change a word of what I wrote above.

Check mate.