AntiBVBL

Is Corey saying that he would support Kenndy today because he was Catholic? Obviously, he looks at issues with a big pair of blinders on. BTW, aren’t most Hispanics Catholic?

Maybe ‘bigoted’ has to do with whose ox is being gored in order for Corey to recognize it.

Devout Catholic? Obviously he missed the scripture in Matthew that says “What you do unto the least of these you do unto me”

I really do not like saying this because I do not like to judge people but based on what I have seen and heard from CS. He is a devout egotist.

I am not real sure but I do not think Gerry Connelly has said anything about Mr. Fimian’s religious affiliation. I think Mr. Connelly’s supporters have and he has not made any comments one way or the other. I guess CS believes his silence is condoning his supporters views.

But isn’t Gerry Connolly Catholic? Didn’t he, early in his life, study to be a priest?
Hard to see him as an anti-Catholic bigot.

Corey apparently didn’t name the organization to which Fimian belongs. Fimian is on the board of directors of Legatus, a catholic organization of CEOs which was started by Tom Monaghan (former owner of Dominos Pizza and the Detroit Tigers).

This organization has come under fire from progressive groups in the past for quoting the papal party line on social issues. There used to be boycots for Dominos Pizza back in the 90’s.

http://www.legatus.org/public/index.asp
http://www.keithfimian.com/action/?page=biography.about

Corey has a nerve asking Gerry Connally to control his supporters. When is Corey going to control his puppeteer? When is Corey going to control his anti-immigration supporters? Pot meet kettle. PUH-leez Corey.

Didn’t Greg have this all over his blog already? Guess the dynamic duo are back. As a devout Catholic myself I call him one devout and raise him three devouts over that relationship. Devout is typically a characterization used about another. Not something you claim.

A devout Cathoic.

I feel bad for the Catholic church.

Catholic churches have been helping, not hurting, the immigrant and international communities for decades. They are about charity and social justice in many cases. They dislike murder, war, hatred, etc.

Corey is such an embarassment.

Thanks Moon-Howler for the 411 post September 2008, 9:50.

Corey Stewart claims to be so devout.
(Others might prefer the word “lout”.)
To Fimian he panders
While Gerry he slanders
In his endeavour to gain some more clout.

Wicked good, Censored.

Oh Censored! Excellent!

Hi Moon-howler, I’m not sure how many anti-immigrant supporters Corey has but I know he has allot of anti-illegal immigrant supporters which is why he was voted into the office he holds.

As I’ve said before, I’m pro-immigrant and anti-illegal immigrant. However, there seems to be no difference between the two here.

Marie, Juturna, et al,

Why do you hold Corey–and, by extension here, Catholics–to such an extremely high standard? You have a lot of nerve attacking Corey’s devotion, while asserting that you yourselves are devout and “do not like to judge people.” You have nothing but contempt for Corey, and take every opportunity to ridicule him. That’s devout? This entire thread is beginning to drip with contempt and hatred. Excuse me, but the Catholic Church is a HUMAN institution, and humans are notoriously imperfect. Attacking Corey’s faith is cheap and desperate.

If you don’t think Connolly had anything to do with the DCCC’s attack on Fimian, then I would imagine you also don’t think the Republican Party had anything to do do with John Kerry’s “swiftboating.” Sounds fair to me.

Hello: It sounds like I touched a nerve somewhere. When the anti-immigration people fail to make the distinction between illegal and legal immigrants, I don’t see why you should expect me to. Furthermore, tell me how I am supposed to tell the difference between a legal and an illegal immigrant.

I know what rhetoric is said when people are making a political point. I also hear and see how people talk when they think it doesn’t count. I think Corey probably has quite a few more anti-immigrant supporters than he wants to admit to.

Moon-howler, I’ve never claimed to have the super-power of being able to tell if someone is illegal or legal by looking at them. I also think that it’s unfortunate that some people do speak without caring who is illegal or not based on their race, I’m not one of those people.

However, by your logic it’s perfectly fine to just do the reverse? I don’t get it… I personally don’t know of a single person that’s anti-immigrant but I know a ton that are anti-illegal immigrant. I would be willing to bet you that there is an overwhelming majority of people out there that are pro-immigrant/anti-illegal immigrant but for you that doesn’t matter. You just choose to offend the majority because of a few loud mouths and that fine with you? I like reading your comments and agree with some of the things that you say but with logic like that I’m not so sure anymore.

Emma, I didn’t claim for one second to be devout. Corey is who described himself as devout. I don’t know if he is devout or not.

When you are a public figure, even in PWC, and you write a political letter to the editor, you open yourself up to skeptics and comments.

Moon-howler, Juturna called herself devout, Marie claimed she doesn’t like to judge people, yet both are in a position to judge Corey’s devotion to his faith because he doesn’t agree with them on their favorite political issue? I hope they, too, are in COMPLETE lockstep with whatever their religion happens to be. I wouldn’t want anyone to question their “devotion” if they aren’t.

Hello, perhaps I was somewhat strident. Let me try again. Way too many people don’t really make the distinction between legal and illegal when discussing it. Many people seem to be opposed to any form of legal immigration or means for illegal immigrants to adjust their status.

Truthfully, I have grown weary of making the distinction myself. Words like pro-illegal (not accusing you) apologist and similar things just make me roll my eyes. I don’t think anyone on this blog is in favor of illegal immigration. We would like to see a humane way of dealing with problems.

I believe Corey is just trying to make nice with the Rep. Party of Va. just in case they win the governor’s race next year. He may be looking for a political appointment or a job in Richmond. That way he could walk away from the mess he created in PWC.

Moon-howler, I have grown just as weary of people calling anyone who is opposed to illegal-immigration anti-immigrant as your are of people calling most here pro-illegal apologist. However, the difference is that I haven’t caved in to the mob mentality that some here have and just said F it, Ill just call everyone anti-immigrant. I’ve never called anyone here a pro-illegal apologist (I know your not accusing me I’m just saying).

Everyone here complains about being “painted with a broad brush” but your doing the same thing, why? It’s frustrating to here people here complain about the same things that they do themselves.

Emma,

Actually I don’t think Marie or Juturna were judging Corey’s faith. I think they were judging his descension into hypocrisy-ville. He accused Connally of being biggoted towards Catholics. I believe that Marie and Juturna were accusing Corey of being bigotted towards Hispanics.

Perhaps they should have just said: Physician, heal thyself.
But I am glad you didn’t accuse me of being devout. Juturna is, I am not.

Point taken, Hello. Maybe we can think up a new name for those opposed to illegal immigration only. By the time all those descriptors are added, I barely know which end is up.

I honestly cannot think of anyone I know who thinks illegal immigration is cool, even those who are illegal. I certainly don’t think it is a good thing. However, the difference in me and someone say in HSM, would be I don’t see all illegal aliens as criminals and bad people. I see many of them as people who want to better their lives. I would like to see productive members of the community be able to have a way to adjust their status to legal. I want criminals in jail or deported.

Corey kisses FAIR’s and HSM’s asses. These are ANTI-IMMIGRANT hate groups, NOT anti-ILLEGAL immigration groups.

Corey takes their money and their policy. Hence, Corey is in the same league they are.

And since Corey wants to play at being a holy man, it’s only ‘FAIR’ to note his other affiliations besides the church.

Imagine someone from another religion being connected with the KKK. How proud would THAT church be of its bragging member?

If Corey had any brain at all, he would separate his religion from his politics. Unfortunately, he HAS no brain which he continues to prove.

And no, I don’t think I have to “be nice” about this one. His behavior is a shameful sham.

how about anti-illegal immigration, kind of says it all right there? I agree with your point that not all illegal immigrants are criminals and bad people (I know a few myself). However, I do think that those that use stolen or counterfeit id to either get a job or drive are criminals. If you went out and purchased a counterfeit drivers license and got caught you would get into a bunch of trouble, why should we let illegal immigrants that do the same go free and just chalk it up to them trying to better their lives (off subject but just thought I’d ask)?

kgotthardt, I disagree with most of your comment but I do agree with you on one thing… religion has no place in politics.

kgotthardt, 2. September 2008, 18:42
And no, I don’t think I have to “be nice” about this one.

You’re right, kgotthardt, you don’t ahve to be nice. Why on earth would you want to elevate this discussion beyond personal attacks?

Being “nice” doesn’t always elevate a conversation. In fact, it can promote hypocrisy and veil the truth.

This isn’t about personal attacks. It is about MY county CHAIR and WHO he affiliates with and for WHAT purpose.

I have the RIGHT to be upset about MY BOCS and THEIR ACTIONS. And I have EVERY right to be EMBARASSED when MY CHAIR spouts off about his religion alongside his campaign and party lines. HOW DARE HE violate both government and religion in this way?

Emma,
Like Moon-Howler said I was NOT judging Corey’s faith. I was judging his descension into hypocrisy-ville.

I am not holding Catholics an extremely high standard? I am NOT attacking Corey’s devotion. I do not have contempt for Corey, I just do not like the way he does business and I do not take every opportunity to ridicule him. Yes, the Catholic Church is a HUMAN institution, and humans are imperfect. Again I was NOT Corey’s faith. He accused Connally of being biggoted towards Catholics. I was trying to say is that Corey is bigotted towards Hispanics.

Boy, I need to proof better. Please excuse my excluded wording.

Marie, I get very frustrated because the Catholic Church is always fair game for attack. People say things about the Church that they would never dare say about Islam, for example, and people’s affiliations with the Church and associated organizations seem to be scrutinized so much more closely than almost any other faith. Yet I wonder how many people are aware of this tidbit I read while I was away last week:

http://www.tampabay.com/opinion/columns/article790204.ece

Writing anything negative about Islam in an American publication, even a direct quote that might cast Islam in a negative light or make any possible link to terrorism, and the consequences can be dire. At least Catholics are safer targets.

No religious group should be targeted ever. Corey has painted a big bull’s-eye right on his church.

Politicians should just leave each other’s religions ALONE and get on with the business of LEADING. But then, we have such pathetic leaders, I guess it’s easier to mix everything up instead of doing the job they were elected to do.

I realize I’m ranting here, but that letter ticked me off.

I don’t know much about the issues in Fairfax, but I find it disingenuous that Corey suddenly cares about how catholisism is treated when he could care less about all the horrible comments that have been written on BVBL. Interesting that he will hold Gerry Connolly responsible for the democratic party but not Greg Letieque for the obvious racial overtones in his blog. THAT is what stands out for me in this story. BTW, Corey is still more than happy to associate with Greg AND HSM, Geez, John Stirrup is a member!

Emma,
kgotthardt is right. No religious group should ever be targeted. I hope you know I am not critizing the Catholic Church, nor its members. As a matter of fact, I went to Catholic School until I was 14 years old. I was being critical of Corey Stewart who was pointing fingers at Connelly, forgetting he has three pointing back at himself. Connelly never said anything about Fimian or his affiliations. CS’s editorial pointed the finger at Connelly but Connelly is not responsible for what other’s say or do. CS even says in the editorial it was Connelly’s supporters who were critical, not Connelly himself.

Hello,

I am assuming that your post was to me. I don’t think illegal aliens or anyone else should steal identities. I am all in favor of people who do that going to jail.

I might be less harsh about counterfeit identities since many a kid has had one. That doesn’t make it right but there is less harm involved.

I’m with Cory. You should not attack another person’s religion, unless they are breaking the law. I do not see Corey breaking any laws, in fact I see him enforcing them. I support that. You do not seem to understand that “religion” is not a public law, but a law between one man (the “individual”) and God. The rest is political whinning, when the majority rule of law does not go the way some gender, racial, religious or ethnic group(s) politically want it to.

Moonhowler, I so agree with you about stealing Identities. See we can agree on some things, and it is a privilege to side with you on this. Identity theft is another of the widely documented “damages” with many criminal consequences of “illegal” immigration, and is not just limited to “illegals”.

Counterfeit identities are a misdemeaner, identity theft a criminal statute. I would treat each as such, based on the damage each does to “individuals” in the Majority of a Democracy and to all “individuals” protected by those laws.

Michael,
Have any new threats for people here? Are you saving our comments to one day sue us for our “subversive” behavior ? “

Marie, that comment was not directed at you, I understand what you were talking about. When I comment it is ususally to the blog at large, unless I address individuals. It is the best way I know of yo state your views, and not upset anyone directly, unless they decide to make it personal.

Elena, do you really think I have no rights under the law. If any one is breaking law here and I have a personal damage claim (by legal counsel) are you saying I am not entitled to it?

I am not picking on anyone here in particular, not even you. Never have I said anything directly to you as a personal statement of intent, but you seem to have erroneously taken it that way. Let’s get it straight, I only advocate that if “anyone” on this blog (that means ALL of us), are breaking the law, or supporting “illegal” immigration or lawlessness, and that support or political activity, causes me personal harm that can be proven by counsel to be a direct or indirect result of any action or political advocacy by anyone engaging in it, then I am entitled under the law to compensation for any “laws” broken. It is up to a judge to decide what “laws” are broken in the support of lawlessness and “illegal” aliens. Not you, not me. Is that clear enough for you to understand my position on “legal” and “illegal” concepts. Unlike most here, I clearly seperate them and make sure I don’t blur them, just because I have a political axe to grind.

You are the one calling it a threat. I am calling it an “individual right”. Every indiviudual in a Cemocracy has a right by counsel for damages under the law, and a right by entitlement to have that law enforced. Anyone in the process of not enforcing it (the law), can be held accountable based on the evidence of the damage it has caused.

You should read about John Adam’s support for law over sympathy or vengeance sometime. HE says it far more clearly than I can.

Thanks but no thanks Corey Stewart. Please leave this and all Congressional races to politicians who have NOT destroyed their own credibility by screaming an anti-immigrant duet with Greg Letiecq, an infamous liar and hate-mongerer, over the past 18 months. Please leave the baseless and fruitless fake-outrage attacks to people on the other side of the aisle upset about teenage pregnancy all of the sudden. Please leave the rah-rah Republican talking points to people who have NOT publicly attacked John McCain for wisely rejecting F.A.I.R.’s anti-immigrant hysteria electioneering kit.
Corey Stewart, you want to point the finger at SOMEONE ELSE about using bigotry as a political ploy?????? You’ve caused the county and the party enough damage to last a lifetime. You’ve earned your legacy of bullying and policy disasters, and the leasr effective leader to ever hold the Chairmanship of Prince William’s BOCS. So, in particular, when it comes to races in jurisdictions that know what an immoral demagouge you have become, please shut the hell up.

Democracy, for you copy editor police….

Michael,
I think you are in desperate need of attention. People on this blog believe that there is a credible debate to be had regarding immigration, legal and illegal. There is a professor that acutally espouses the premise that illegal immigration is good for this country, is he on your list to sue? The reality is that unless there are divergent views, there is no possiblity of debate. You ARE threatening people Michael, and although I believe your behavior is attention seeking, your threats are not welcome here. Anti was created in order to allow people a place with opposing views, especially ones that were in direct oppostion of Greg’s. Now people may get heated, and they may “pummel” people with facts, there is no place for you continued overt threats.

You said:

“I am not picking on anyone here in particular, not even you. Never have I said anything directly to you as a personal statement of intent, but you seem to have erroneously taken it that way. Let’s get it straight, I only advocate that if “anyone” on this blog (that means ALL of us), are breaking the law, or supporting “illegal” immigration or lawlessness, and that support or political activity, causes me personal harm that can be proven by counsel to be a direct or indirect result of any action or political advocacy by anyone engaging in it, then I am entitled under the law to compensation for any “laws” broken.”

You ARE clearly trying to intimidate the free flow of debate here Michael, and your actions make me very uncomfortable on behalf of all the people that post here.

It’s a shame Corey Stewart can’t personally answer that and defend his right to take the stand he has. I also support WHWN’s right to RANT. A good rant WHWN.

I need no attention, (professor of psychology wannbe), I simply have an opposing view you don’t like. So what? I also have a set of rights under the law that you don’t like. That does not remove them or my right to them. If you want to stoop to the low level of attacking me personally, go ahead. I’m not offended, simply in disagreement that the tactic is a useful one in a debate on “issues”.

So informing people that a LAW EXISTS is intimidating people and shutting off debate? What LAW SCHOOL did you go to?

Some laws make some people uncomfortable, especially when they are not sure they are not breaking one. I am very sure I am not breaking any, because I do not support “illegal” people in ANY way.

I am all for DIVERGENT views, I am not for DIVERGENT views that support, aid or abet “lawlessness” or the breaking of any federal statute, including “illegal” immigration. If anything constitutes a “threat” it is the “threat” of LAW ENFORCEMENT on people who are breaking, or advocate breaking of our nation’s laws, regardless of their “political” views or “opinions”.

Everyone is entitled to a divergent opinion. None are entitled to break the law. It is that simple. Can I be more clear, or do you still want to attack me personally in a petty way?

Michael,
Just wondering, is George Bush on your “target” list to sue also. He was a very vocal proponent of immigration reform if I am not mistaken.

So Michael, during the civil rights movement, you would have been on the side of the segregationists then. It was the “rule of law” back then, seperate but equal.

I have no “target list”, Elena. I’m simply pointing out my rights under existing law. You seem to think I am not entitled to hold people accountable to existing law. News flash, this is a Democracy, we can all be held accountable and we can all change law. If I have evidence, I can sue anyone, but a judge has to agree with me and counsel has to agree to take it to court.

George Bush made some very bad strategic decisions, that is why the nation will replace him (gotta love Deomcracy). So did Bill Clinton, So did Ronald Regan, and a host of congressmen along the way. All made decisions that were not supported and are still not supported by the Majority of people in this Deomcracy, because “groups” have subverted democracy, and now buy off politicians with political funding.

I no longer support Bush though I have republican leanings in my “centrist” political ideology. I think he is an idiot.

I’m still not sure which person is going to be the better President next, Obama or McCain. I like the fact that both are Centrists in their own party and are very close together ideologically, they both throw out the extreme elements (politically) in their own party and come under fire from the extremists.

If I had to vote tomorrow, I would vote Obama, but I’m waiting for the “substance” of the debates first.

And yes, I ignored your “sarcasm” and gave you an open and truthful, honest, respectful and polite answer as I have always done here. People who don’t like my honest and truthful answers are the only ones who “attack” and deflect the honesty of the “issue” offered for “honest” and “respectful” debate.

I need to get some sleep, so if you wish I will return as soon as I can and we can “debate” some more if you wish.

No Elena, I would have been on the side of the people who advocate the LAW, be enforced equally on all the SAME. IT was not. The civil rights issues was about EQUALITY under the LAW (That is a Democracy). THE UNEQUAL LAW is why it was SEGREGATED. IT was FIXED by making the LAW the SAME, and enforceing it the same, not by giving privilege or discrimminating against gender, racial, religious or ethnic groups. THe civila rights cause, is not the same as supporting “illegal” immigrants. NOT EVEN CLOSE. We do NOT hAVE TWO SETS of LAWS here, as some who support “illegals” want desperately to have.

We have one law, codified in the federal statutes on “illegal” immigration, and it is enforced equally on everyone the same regardless of gender, race, religion or ethnic group. Those who break it get pusished, those who do not are not held accountable, and are protected from harrassment, privilege, discrimmination and illegal due process.

My “issue” is with people who won’t enforce that law, until it is “changed” by a democractic majority. If I have any issue with you it is that you don’t seem to support the enforcement of ALL of that law, and you simply advocate for “sympathy” to support people who break the law. I think that is wrong and so does the rest of the majority in this Democracy, whether you personally like it or not.

I support you when you ONLY support issues that affect “Legal” people. But you blur both groups of people into one cause and in so doing cause “issue” with me and every other American who wants the law enforced.

Elena said: “Now people may get heated, and they may “pummel” people with facts”,

I think you are dreaming if that is what you call attacks against people on here. I agree with much of what you say but as an independent, I and many others have pointed out the nasty comments on here. And those comments are usually followed by a mob joining in. It would be great if once, someone who calls himself/herself a moderate would stop making excuses for nasty posts and tell even their friends that they went over the top. It unfortunately never happens here.

By the way, that is why I don’t post much here anymore. Sounds great for open discussion doesn’t it?

Michael, do you ever read what you type?

“Those who break it get pusished, those who do not are not held accountable, and are protected from harrassment, privilege, discrimmination and illegal due process.”

I am not talking about the spelling errors.

PW Resident,
But people have told others when they have gone over the top and normally an apololgy subsequently follows. I have gotten inbetween Lucky and Mackie in hopes of getting back to the discussion at hand. In fact, when Dan Stein posted, both Alanna and I said that calling him scum was NOT the way to respond. Now, as for people like Elvis and a few others, they do not get respect in any way because they simply are here to be hateful and cruel.

Elena! Stop taking Michael seriously. He’s just doing a parody of Greg Letiecq. Did you notice that everyone else is ignoring this foolery?

If he were using his real name, of course he would not be voicing such a laughable legal opinion about whether or not blogs can be sued. If blogs we disagree with can be sued, we should just shut down the internet entirely. In other words, blogs we don’t agree with cannot be sued.

End of discussion.

I’d like to see a law suit against this blog. It would be good drama and great press for the best political blog in NoVA!

I can imagine how it would go. 3 years from now, Comprehensive Immigration Reform is the law of the land. Corey Stewart has been booted out of the Republican party and Mike May is running for Chairman against Frank Principi. Corey Stewart decides to retire from politics, and, the day after his announcemnt, one of his despondant followers decides to file suit against AntiBVBL.net. His reasons? This blog has caused him years of pain and suffering by forcing him to read it religiously. AND, he blames the posters here for forcing Corey Stewart into retirement by exposing his duplicity and ineptitude for three solid years without let up, and wihtout Corey Stewart, he has no reason to live

This person happens to have money to waste, so he hires four college kids to read through hundreds of AntiBVBL web pages and pick out the posts that MOST damaged Corey Stewart and the Anti-immigrant Lobby.

Who makes the list?

WHWN, Moon-Howler, Censored, KGotthardt, Elvis, and Michael. The latter two for posting such bigotry (Elvis) and pretzel logic (Michael) that it makes Corey Stewart look like a Pied Piper manipulating a band of bigots and idiots who almost dragged the rest of us off an anti-immigrant cliff. So, Censored, KGotthardt, WHWN, Moon-Howler, Elvis, and Michael are named as defendants on the suit.

During the trial, the plaintiff testifies that he first got the idea to sue AntiBVBL when he read a post here written in August of 2008, and we find out that one of the defendants, Michael, is the man who gave him the idea…..

I’ve never heard or seen any sign of bigotry from Corey Stewart. Unless you have a mental disorder that confuses enforcing the law with bigotry, or see bigotry in every aspect of life. Some folks look for it everywhere, in church, in the grocery store, while filling their gas tanks. Those people will, of course, find it everywhere.

Elena said: “Now people may get heated, and they may “pummel” people with facts”

Are you kidding me??? Lunacy and rhetoric, yes. But facts? Why do you think this blog devolved into such a circle jerk? No solutions or real discussion here. Move along.

Mando your involuntary indoctrination is showing. Your kind are is best suited for other activities, like screaming at the television on command. Blogging, not your bag.

Elena, with all due respect, it doesn’t come across that way. I am not the only one voicing the opinion. I would like to see this blog thrive but if it gets a reputation that people who disagree are beaten down and leave, and do not post because the admins are not warning their friends but only those they disagree with, there cannot be credibility.

I am offering the comments as constructive in the hopes that passionate opinions remain civil and name calling is handled with swiftly and decisively. And that includes having nasty pet names for people in the public eye.

@WhyHereWhyNow

This coming from the leader of the circle jerk? LOL!

Mando, what are the specific problems and what are your solutions? You realize that it sounds as though you’re asking some local bloggers to solve the problems that the federal government has been unable to solve.

Suggest reading “The Real Economic Scorecard” by Robert J. Samuelson in today’s
Washington Post op/ed section (A15).

” Low-skilled immigrants, concentrated among Hispanics, outnumber the high
skilled. They drag down median incomes and raise proverty and the number
of uninsured.”

Immmigration, documented or not, generally benefits the immigrant – or they
wouldn’t do it. What must also be understood is the impact on host communities.
To ignore the real problems of rapid demographic change is to leave fertile ground for
BVBL , Corey S. and others to plow.

“Circle jerk”?

That’s one I would have censored.

Take your imagery to some other website, please. There are many of them more appropriate to your hobbies.

NGL, talk about a freaking Kangaroo Court!!! LOL! Good luck Michael et al getting lawyer for THAT one when we can’t even get lawyers for things like government sponsored student loan fraud.

Thank you. I needed good laugh this morning.

Poor Richard, that article sounds as though its saying that the increase in poverty pretty much stays within the immigrant community – that it’s not dragging the salaries of other workers down (except by being averaged in). However, the increased cost appears to be in health insurance and, as the article says, as health insurance becomes a larger part of a worker’s overall pay, the actual take home paycheck may be smaller as the fringe benefits become higher. Frankly, I was surprised to see that only 15% of the population was uninsured.

Perhaps more emphasis needs to be placed on health care reform – whether through more free clinics or subsidized policies for those at or below the poverty level.

Censored bybvbl…who do you think pays for the “free clinics or subsidized policies”?
They are not “free”, the rest of us pay the bills.

Lucky Duck, of course they’re not free. But as long as the people are here, you can offer cheaper preventive care at a health clinic or use the more expensive option – the hospital emergency room. What’s your solution?

Censored by bvbl,
As the old song goes, money isn’t “heaven sent”.
Yes, preventive care is of great value and it makes sense to use clinics
(including drugstores) to address minor medical issues, but even that
cost money.
Poor,uneducated and uninsured people, especially when ill,
put fiscal stress on the exsisting medical safety net – no matter their race,
religion or national origin. That is just a cold hard fact. As a decent, humane
society we have an obligation to care for them, but that creates
tremendous financial pressures athat will only grow as that population increases.

If you don’t cure the sick you have, you will have more of the sick.

Many clinics are private, non-profits. Some free meds are actually given out by the drug companies. Before we generalize, look at the clinics and the hospitals.

Since Congress doesn’t want to create a work program that will help people get insurance, they can blame themselves. But that doesn’t give anyone the moral right to refuse health care to anyone.

Lucky Duck
Having volunteered in Free Clinics, I can tell you most of the funding comes from contributions and fund raisers. The government puts very little of their tax dollars into free clinics. I know the City donates about $10,000 a year to the Free Clinic here. I do not know what PW Co donates. People like you and me donate funds. Doctors, nurses, and those who provide administrative support, except the Director, are volunteers. Many drug companies donate drugs for patients with chronic illnesses.

There are very, very few government funded free clinics in VA.

Poor Richard, I know several native-born, self-employed citizens who opt to spend their money on booze and cigarettes rather than health insurance. At least the hospital has some chance of recovering some of the funds – provided that their address or work place is known.

Here’s an article about a town that I once lived near in Georgia. Because of a new state law, the health department cut off many services to adult illegal immigrants. Many people who couldn’t prove residency opted to pay for the services. That’s one solution – to continue to offer the services at a price. Emergency care is an obvious service that couldn’t be denied.

http://www.daltondailycitizen.com/archivesearch/local_story_259231026.html

I guess I’m not as appalled at paying higher taxes on well-managed services as some people are. Half of my real estate tax for the thirty years that I’ve been a homeowner in PWC has gone to the schools. I’ve never had a child in the school system and it’s a large chunk of my local tax, but I’d rather pay it and have an educated populace. All of us pay for something that we don’t need or use. I think a great way to take advantage of a service that your tax provides is to use the library .

“Mando, what are the specific problems and what are your solutions?”

I’ve mentioned the solution MANY times. It’s really quite simple. This is a problem of supply and demand (economics). Industry in our country has a demand for cheap labor but a severe lack of supply. Thus, we import the supply. We should be exporting the demand instead of having tax payers subsidize the importation of the supply. Citizens of both countries would benefit.

Mando, what do you do with the legal residents of this country who don’t have very high skill levels? Who employs them?

Mando, also, if the majority of low-skilled immigrant workers are employed in construction, maid-service, hospitality, landscaping, small businesses then they are needed here.

“Mando, what do you do with the legal residents of this country who don’t have very high skill levels? Who employs them?”

A free market enjoys what is called the invisible hand. It guides those that want to those that have. I have faith that US citizens that truly want a job will find that job. National unemployment rates attest to that.

The flip side is, why import millions upon millions of illegal immigrants to fill a demand that U.S. citizens aren’t willing to fill in the name of keeping jobs U.S. citizens don’t want to do?

“Mando, also, if the majority of low-skilled immigrant workers are employed in construction, maid-service, hospitality, landscaping, small businesses then they are needed here.”

Work visas. Also:

“Mando, what do you do with the legal residents of this country who don’t have very high skill levels? Who employs them?”

I mean, you answered your own question.

Think about it. You set up industry in Mexico in these depressed little squalors of towns and watch life and hope come to them.

For jobs that can neither be exported nor filled by U.S. citizens, there’s a whole industry of head hunters which can tie immigrant workers with U.S. employers and tie it to a visa program. Take the money out of the coyote’s hands and place it into legit business.

Do those two things, and you are TRULY helping those that come here just to work and feed their families. Border security and ICE can focus on the true criminals rather then migrant workers.

Emma, 2. September 2008, 17:32
Marie, Juturna, et al,

Why do you hold Corey–and, by extension here, Catholics–to such an extremely high standard? You have a lot of nerve attacking Corey’s devotion, while asserting that you yourselves are devout and “do not like to judge people.” You have nothing but contempt for Corey, and take every opportunity to ridicule him. That’s devout? This entire thread is beginning to drip with contempt and hatred. Excuse me, but the Catholic Church is a HUMAN institution, and humans are notoriously imperfect. Attacking Corey’s faith is cheap and desperate.

_____________________________
I was simply criticizing his continued self-aggrandizement and it it continues with calling himself devout. Read what I wrote Emma. I consider the word devout to be an attribute given a person not something you claim for yourself….. Thought my sarcasm in calling myself devout was apparent….

No way can that be construed as an attack on his faith. Unless you are looking for something to pick at ….. I don’t go there. Think it’s a dangerous thing to do.

For jobs that can neither be exported nor filled by U.S. citizens, there’s a whole industry of head hunters which can tie immigrant workers with U.S. employers and tie it to a visa program. Take the money out of the coyote’s hands and place it into legit business.

I agree that that’s a good idea but wonder how many people are willing to relocate for jobs and how quickly.

The Georgia town which I referenced is basically a one industry town although there are chicken plants in the surrounding area. Most of the town’s economy is tied to the carpet industry. It employs thousands of people. The plant owners tried to recruit in neighboring states without much luck. It’s in the Appalachian foothills. A lot of people tend to stay put – much like rural Virginians. I believe some parts of the industry may have moved out of the country at one time but there’s been a lot of consolidation now with fewer processes subbed out. Actually China is viewed as the biggest competitor. There would probably be a move there rather than farther south.

I mean citizens willing to relocate as opposed to immigrants.

This area was doing fairly well eight years ago – prior to the massive wave
of immigrants, both documented and not – life was pretty good. (Old Town
Manassas was even selected by Washingtonian Magazine as a “best place to live”
in the area – before Fernandez vandalized it with his ugly sign.)

The idea that we wanted or needed a horde of poor, uneducated and low-skilled
people to come here and declare how much we “need them” and to pay extra for
their prescence is simply false.

Of course, immigrants came here to improve their lot, but what about the
exsisting citizens – did it improve or hurt them? That is a question that needs to
be addressed in a fair and pragmatic way. There will be no
reconcilation until that is done.

Poor Richard, how would we measure whether the existing citizens had been hurt or helped or both? Property values? (There’s that nasty sub-prime mortgage mess to take into account.) Income levels? Local tax increases? Safety? Diversity?

If a farm or business feels they need to import workers – fine – IF they don’t
transfer much of the cost to locals for items such as schools and health care
AND they have a reasonable plan for housing that doesn’t swamp exsisting
neighborhoods with overcrowded facilties — these issues need to be discussed
openly and fairly. We do impact studies and assign cost on dozens of things
now – why not immigration? Much of the problem has been the disorganized
hodge-podge way the federal government has allowed it to happen with no
regard for the immigrants or the native citizens. Spotted owls get more
study, attention and support.

“Actually China is viewed as the biggest competitor. There would probably be a move there rather than farther south.”

That’s because the Chinese govt. is on the ball and understands that its goldmine is its huge labor supply. It utilizes that labor supply and encourages other countries to utilize it as well. China speaks business. Won’t be long before Chinese labor evolve past manufacturing and repetitive line work. Their labor supply will become more educated and less willing to do that work. Their labor supply will be competing with us.

“Most of the town’s economy is tied to the carpet industry. It employs thousands of people.”

Does it employ citizens or illegal aliens? Smaller industries which just cannot afford to relocate to take advantage of another countries labor supply could utilize some sort of head hunting service which allows it to import that labor supply legally. It would cost them (rather then US) to do so, but it would be at their own behest. There could be special rules that must be followed if an industry is going to import labor en masse like providing minimums for health care, housing, etc. Tax payers shouldn’t be picking up that tab. I believe this would be the exception rather then the rule because I have to believe if you’re not able to compete internationally then why should we subsidize you to do so? Importing labor should be prohibitive for larger scale industries.

Mando, they had a labor shortage. Immigrants migrated there from jobs that had been available building the Olympic structures in Atlanta. The mill owners recruited in Mexico both for mill workers and later for teachers. I suspect that although the originally recruited workforce was legally here, many who have followed are not. In fact, there was a court case involving Mohawk Carpets that reached the US Supreme Court and was sent back to the lower court. It was brought by employees who attempted to employ RICO statutes to address wages that they said were driven down by illegal immigrants.

Housing was available and probably pretty cheapily found by the original immigrant workforce. The schools are probably the biggest burden on the tax base.

The demographics have changed as much as they have in Manassas. It’s an unusual area in that there are many poor people but a lot of wealth (and beauty queens…haha).

A darker state economy sends day laborers packing
Gina Ferazzi / Los Angeles Times
With more competing for fewer jobs, some immigrant workers are returning home.
http://www.latimes.com/business/careers/work/la-me-return1-2008sep01,0,3882876.story

Juturna, I hardly think calling himself a devout Catholic qualifies as “self-aggrandizement” just because you don’t agree with his stance on illegal immigration. I happen to think a candidate IS responsible for the messages sent out by his/her party committee, and if those messages are attacking another persons’ religious affiliations, then the candidate needs to speak up or discourage such messages. Connolly has been silent even while automated phone calls go out to his constituency attacking Fimian’s Legatus membership.

Do you really believe that the Republicans’ hands were totally clean when John Kerry was swiftboated?

To clarify, was George Bush blissfully unaware of that irresistably juicy, tasty nugget that effectively discredited Kerry? Somehow I doubt it. No more than Connolly was oblivious to these attacks against Fimian.

The MJM posted this notice at 3:10 this afternoon and you have until (:30 this evening to get your tickets

http://www.insidenova.com/isn/news/local/article/vp_nominee_joe_biden_to_visit_manassas_tomorrow/20656/

CORRECTION: 3:10 this afternoon but BVBL has a different account:

http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/09/03/joe-biden-comes-to-prince-william/

Screw it…lol, the correction was for the time you have left to pick up your tickets this evening : 9:30

Speaking of Corey ….
Fairfax County announced a $439 million shortfall for FY10 and has directed county staff to present 15% across the board cuts from all agencies. Anyone hear anything about PWC…?

WHWN is absolutely right, blogs canot likely be sued directly. Only the information on them can be used to track down additional or real public evidence of unlawful wrong-doing, evidence of damage in terms of the issues and facts and evidence of factual activities of organizations and individuals engaged in public politics and criminal behavior, which cause factual damage and factual breaking of the law acountable under the law.

I am simply pointing out that advocating for any support of unlawful behavior or support of “illegals” in any way, can be determined from the evidence gathered from a blog or any public source document, and then used to track down futher evidence of actual and intentional harm done, damage, lawlessness and civil code violations.

Blogs are not immune from their real use as law-enforcement fact gathering instruments. Anti-terrorist cells use the internet all the time for this very real intelligence gathering purpose, though most of you sniker and scoff at the very idea of public information being used in any legal process. dream on….

Yes Leila I read my words,

Lawlessness and unlawful behavior is not protected from harassment, privilege, discrimmination, or punishment. A judge makes a determination of the degree of any of the above punishments applied to people who break the law. Some get privilege, some get discrimmination, some get harassment, some get punishment. Because it is a judgment, the degree of this varies with the personality, beliefs, bias and judicial rights and powers of a Judge.

Your point?

Only LAWFUL BEHAVIOR is protected from these adverse actions by the statement of the law. A judge must apply the law equally to all people who have NOT broken the law. He does not have to apply it equally to those who have broken the law, in determining sentencing, although their are recommended and some mandated “guidelines”.

I never said antthing about illegal immigration and being devout??!! Ykes you need a lawyer here to post!??
What I said and meant was clear and simple and had everything to do with character and nothing to do with his politics.
You are putting words in my mouth. Play fair or play alone.

Juturna,

I am so glad you have many lawyers in your family. It sounds like you need a brigade of them just to post here with the ‘word twisters’ doing drive bys here.

I sure hope you feel singled out because I believe you were. (rolling eyes).

No kidding…. Oh well, I’ve said all along people have to come here legally. Not sure why that is being thrown at me. I’ve said all along, I don’t like Stewarts style or his approach – to just about anything!!

Why on earth would I make digs at the Catholic Church????!!!! Went to Catholic schools Prek-grad, son PreK-8th…. (won’t go into our Public School experience) I’ve said all along I’m a Catholic?!

I simply don’t like people claiming to be devout. Not something you claim… Maybe my lingusitics or ethics brain is claiming too much space..

Juturna, I agree with you. People don’t use the term ‘devout’ about themselves.

I guess you can just add one more person to your ignore list. It isnt worth the trouble responding to a drive by.

.

LOL, I’m sure I’m only going to get this all by myself (humor me), but my “dot” was a browser test that isn’t working correclty under refresh.

I just realized that poor “dot” could be mistaken as a “driveby”…creating some poor anti-dot heated response. LOL2…

Calling it an evening, I’m starting to see humor where it shouldn’t be.

Michael, just so you aren’t calling yourself a black speck, I am just fine with your dot.

Poor Richared,
I agree with your comment that a rapid demographic change must be dealt with in a coherent thoughtful manner. That approach did not happen in PWC. I wonder what models are out there that DID work, that brought the community together, and dealt with the socio-economic concerns in a holistic productive approach.

I guess that anyone who disagrees with a liberal is a bigot, right? Way to keep an open mind.