Immigration Film Series this Weekend
Unity in the Community in collaboration with George Mason University, Prince William Campus
University Life presents - Crossing the Line: An Immigration Film Series at the Verizon Auditorium at George Mason University’s Prince William Campus
Saturday, August 16 at 7:30 pm – a double feature
“Alienated: Undocumented Immigrant Youth”
This film is about undocumented immigrant youth facing the challenges of life after high school without options for legalized work or college
“Beyond the Border”
Latinos seeking a better life have migrated to Kentucky, for low-paying jobs in the tobacco, manufacturing and horse racing industries. As Latino communities swell, so does the xenophobia and discrimination they face.
Sunday, August 17 at 2:30 pm
“Under the Same Moon”
The reunion of 9-year-old Carlitos and his mother Rosario, Who works as an illegal domestic in Los Angeles.
Thanks for posting this, Alanna. One of last week’s films, “Ramchand Pakistani” is not even in release in this country, and drew people who could explain during the discussion afterwards some of the Muslim customs in the film.
Next week’s films in the series are “Farmingville” and “Nema Problema,” and the organizers said the director of one of the films will be there to answer questions.
The films are free, and the discussions afterward are facilitated by students from GMU’s ICAR (Institute for Conflict Analysis and Resolution).
Even to a casual observer, it is obvious that these are propaganda films
intended to champion one side of a complex and nuanced issue. They
add little to a healthy, candid and balanced civic dialogue.
GMU’s ICAR would better serve the community by being an even handed
“honest broker”.
I don’t care for GL and HSM’s myopic views, but, alas, you risk
become simply a mirror image.
Poor Richard,
No matter what points of view the varied filmmakers convey through the films included in this series, I believe it it the discussion afterward that is important. Whether you are watching a documentary or a fictional film made for artistic purposes, a lot of great discussion on all sides of the immigration issue can be generated (if people on all sides of the issue make the choice to attend). It’s not really that different than discussing media such as books, film, or articles in a college class.
Poor Richard, why don’t you go and discuss your point of view after?
It’s a local film series concerning immigration, I don’t know, I thought some people that visit the site might be interested. And, of course it has a perspective, is it the same as as showing people pictures of homes in disrepair and dead rats and damanding that they ‘HELP SAVE MANASSAS’? I personally don’t think so. But, I suppose both might be considered propoganda.
Isn’t anything pretty much propaganda? Television ads? The Media? Organizations? If it’s opinion or perspective, it can easily be labeled propaganda.
Why pre-judge if it’s propaganda? Go and see for yourself, Poor Richard. Don’t be so afraid of new ideas. Try to be open instead of alarmed.
Poor Richard, if it’s the other side you want more of, there’s always “Border War: The Battle Over Illegal Immigration”. It’s a conservative point of view and available on Netflix.
Here’s a fairly extensive list of films about immigration from Berkeley’s website. I don’t know what the points of view are…maybe liberal. We’re talking Berkeley here - although my husband’s father, an Air Force officer, attended Berkeley.
http://www.iir.berkeley.edu/immigration/teachers/films.html#race
You have already become Hacks for the cause of Illegals through the dissemination of half truths and propaganda. You have taken intellectual dishonesty to a whole new level.
The damage is done.
G.stone, why don’t you show a little more intellectual honesty and a bit less generality. Who’s “you”? What half truths and propaganda? What damage? Why don’t you do more than a drive-by and add some detail.
Have you been to any of the films or seen any of them elsewhere?
The truth shall set you free…haha.
g.stone appears to have taken lack of specificity “to a whole new level.” What half truths? What intellectual dishonesty?
kgotthardt and DiversityGal,
How about you come on out to a “Help Save Manassas” meeting and do the same?
Poor Richard - you should know better. This foum is full of people who try to present themselves as neutral but “champion one side of a complex and nuanced issue”. Just look at that take your responses.
Many people think it’s propaganda based on the (anti)blog which is promoting it. I’m sure it’s just as neutral as 9500 Liberty.
//I’ll catch it on youtube when it shows up next week.
It would be a waste of time to watch your “Poor Little Immigrant Victims” movies or
HSM’s documentary “Every Immigrant Is Vile and Evil !!” They both have
little value and impact except for those who already agree with them.
I would like to see a non-biased GMU economic study of the impact of
illegal immigration on the City of Manassas. What are the cost
to the community and who pays? It may be challenging to get concrete
data from schools, medical facilites and social workers because of
legal issues, but researchers should be able to come close. Yes,
there may be a small group of bigots here, but the core of this
isn’t hate or racism — it is economics.
correction:
not: Just look at that take your responses.
Just thake a look at THEIR responses…
I do agree that BVBL also goes off the deep end sometimes when they post crimes of illegal aliens. I do believe in following the law. If the law is bad, then organize. But we shouldnt try to find ways to or promote breaking the law in the meantime until said law changes.
Anonymoose, how would you change the law if you were given the power to do so?
leila,
you are another lost in the woods liberal upset that soon she’s going to lose the illegal alien slaves mowing her lawn and cleaning her house after they all get deported.
Actually, I believe that Alanna just made an announcement. I don’t think she endorsed the films or even offered an opinion.
Why is this controversial and getting down to an ‘us and them’ situation? I find it strange that so many people see immigration as one side or the other. It is such a complex issue to be chiseled down into a 2 dimensional discussion.
If the law is bad, why not just ignore it?
The police do.
The judges do.
The politicians do.
Are we saying we’re less than them and they are more than us? Isn’t that the definition of royalty?
Anonymoose, I’ve watched them on video and read their materials. I’ve heard them speak at Citizen Time. I’ve given them my time.
You missed some interesting movies and discussions.
Poor Richard,
You may want to do some research on the Council for Foreign Relatons website http://www.cfr.org/ I have found very detailed and well researched articles that address these concerns. This organization is clearly non partisan and yet almost everything I have read, clearly indicates that you will do more harm than good, attemptimg to expell 12 million undocumented persons. I was wondering, you seem very negative towards anti, has something changed for you? Your posts in the beginning were great, I especially loved the Baltimore Sun article that showed the exact same rhetoric and language directed at the Italians mirroring the attacks against Latino’s.
There is no us or them in my mind regarding illegal immigration. I believe, from all I have learned, there are many layers to this issue, and no simple answer will suffice. Having said that, I think that it is imperative, to deal with the “on the ground” impacts that many neighborhoods have experienced. Were it not for this culture clashes, I seriously doubt we would be hearing so much about “illegal” immigration.
Yes Poor Richard, you do seem very down on the anti-blog recently. What has changed?
He won the lotto…I heard about the curse and still play
Why don’t you ask them to do this, Poor Richard? To be fair, the study would have to include benefits that the community receives as well as the effects of the sub-prime, No-Doc, Low-Doc mortgage mess.
Poor Richard,
Look at some of the economics.
Let’s look at some economics.
With all the emphasis placed on how much undocumented immigrants are costing
there is a side of the immigration story that often goes untold. Another side to the story is equally important: contributions that undocumented immigrants make to state resources in the form of payroll,income, property, sales and excise taxes.
The Commonwealth Institute reported that Virginia’s undocumented population earn between $3.0 billion and $3.5 billion in wages per year. They pay between $380 million and $450 million in taxes either directly or through their employers. Their tax contributions include an estimated total of between $145 million and $174 million in state income taxes, sales and excise taxes, and property taxes. The report also estimates that undocumented immigrants working on the books pay an additional $114 million to $137 million in Social Security, and Medicare taxes, which are matched by their employers. There is a belief that undocumented immigrants don’t pay any taxes and this simply is not true.
Illinois did a report a few years back that states basically the same economic contributions by undocumented that the Commonwealth Institute in Virgnia reports. I assume this could possibly hold true for the nation.
Undocumented immigrants, as a group, do not pay their share of LOCAL expenses
in Virginia with their taxes. That is a hard fact.
- The major LOCAL tax is on property - housing.
- The major LOCAL expense is public education.
- If more children come from the same number of housing units in a
community - your cost go up, but not your revenue. The cost is
magnified if the children don’t speak English and require smaller
classes. Economics 101.
- To continue to pretend the undocumented don’t place a financial
burden on LOCAL jurisdictions in Virginia is simply false and stands
in the way of constructive dialogue.
Moon-howler,
I’m not so much down on this blog as frustrated with the way
it often mimics BVBL with its ideological certainty and impatience with
dissenting views.
Poor Richard, I’ve heard estimates of overcrowded housing stock in PWC and Manassas City being as low as one percent of the housing stock and as high as three or four percent. Anyway, it’s an insignificant number. Many of the housing complaints we’ve heard are about single men occupying houses - no mention of children in these cases. It would be best to track whether the number of school children per housing unit in the City/County has increased each year or whether we are just seeing a population increase in general as a result of increased housing units.
Censored,
I just went back to post a Quarterly Report from Neighborhood Services. Unfortunately, the links to the presentations are NO longer available for viewing online. I have some of them printed out. You are correct about the small percetage of overcrowding complaints. Other presentations are available. Why would these no longer be available for all to view after the fact. I also, noticed some of the VDOT regular presentations aren’t available either. Why would these be taken down?
Chris, I haven’t checked the County’s website regularly but I did notice some changes a couple weeks ago. I don’t know if they’re just in the process of updating or what the story is.
Censored,
The interesting thing to me was most presentations are still there. However, immigration presentations weren’t there for viewing either. I look at all of them for the last year. This is very odd. Remember, last year Manassas Park City Council got called for altering information.
I think lots of old archives were lost with the new improved website. I haven’t adusted yet. It is me, not website. I don’t do change well.
I was incorrect in my earlier post. Next week’s films in the series are “Farmingville” and “La Americana.” Nicholas Bruckman, the director of “La Americana” will be there from New York for the post film discussion and the closing reception of the film series.
Honestly, the films are just films like you’d see on any college campus — forums to stimulate an exchange of ideas and discussion. ICAR students facilitate the discussions afterward so people feel safe to express viewpoints with some ground rules so no one feels intimidated.
Come watch “Under the Same Moon” today at 2:30 pm. It recently closed in theatrical release and is available for renting on DVD, but come see for yourself and join in the discussion. It’s free.
Poor Richard has said:
PR,
I actually think that is very valid criticism and something each of us probably needs to think about. I know I could always choose a more patient response, or …not respond. As for idealogical certainty, I understand where you are coming from there also. I wish you would point it out when it happens. If we truly want to be representative of the mainstream, we need to make sure we embrace it.
That is not to say that people who might be beyond the mainstream do not have a voice but I do believe one of our goals was originally to provide a middle ground between extremes. I hope we are still there. Please remind us when we aren’t.
I believe balance should always be strived for. Thanks for your response.
Poor Richard and Censored, it is so easy to go around and round with the cost and benefit analysis of the impact of illegal immigrants and never, ever get a straight answer or the true cost.
We know that they pay sales taxes - they have to eat and by clothes like everyone else, we know that at least some pay real estate taxes.
Of course, the other side is that there ARE additional expenses for those here illegally.
Censored, even if the over crowding complaints are at 4 % of housing, that is still over 5000 residences in the county being complained about (number of residences in Pr. William County is available from Metro. Council of Governments - about 170,000 in PWC in 2007, so 4% is a little over 5000). So I would not consider that number “insignificant”, particulary if they were in your neighborhood or mine. Also, regarding Poor Richard’s education economics, ask yourself how many ESOL teachers the County had in 1990 and how many there are today and how much more the expense is. Sure, some legal residents need ESOL, but so do illegal immigrants and that is a burdened expense to the local schools and taxpayers that is required simply by their presence.
That Commonwealth Institute of Virginia you quoted estimates that half, yes, half of illegal or undocumented immigrants pay Federal or State Income taxes - which means it is estimated that 1/2 of illegal immigrants pay nothing. So who wins there? The State or Feds get money from 1/2 the illegal population and keeps their money but the other 1/2 get a free ride.
Too many studies to fit too many agendas and which ones are true?
Lucky Duck, I do think that localities bear the burden of the federal government’s inaction. And 5000 residences is a large number. The local governments put the number at less than 3-4% now but that is still a large number if the overcrowded residence is next to you. (I’m thinking 1% is the more accurate number now.) Although the problem houses may be found in any subdivision, many are concentrated in particular areas of older housing - so many residents are totally unaffected by overcrowding and some residents are acutely effected.
Has the ESOL enrollment increased at the same pace as the population increase in the county or has it increased at a faster pace?
Censored, good question about the ESOL enrollment increasing at the same pace as the population increase but I don’t know the answer. But for the figure to be accurate, it would have to be tied to the LEGAL population and there is no way for this to be done because the schools cannot question legal status. Simply comparing the increase in ESOL teachers to the total population increase does not take into account those who illegal and - and that figure (who is not legal) would give us a more accurate cost of providing ESOL to non-citizens or illegal aliens, which would show a direct cost or impact of the illegal immigration problem.
Lucky Duck, until the federal government offers any help or changes its requirements, the localities will have to provide schooling and emergency room care. There’s no way for the localities to cut that cost as far as I know. As an aside, if we had no illegal immigrants, I wonder what percentage of native-born patients have no insurance to pay for their hospital costs.
I agree with you. My point was that each side tries to point out either the benefits or the costs of illegal immigration and how they do or do not pay a fair share. Even that study you quoted from the Commonwealth Institute of Va. that extolled the money illegal immigrants put into the system then went on and estimated that 1/2 of them pay no federal or state income taxes. How is that for a reputable group to play both sides of the fence? So even that study is torn in two. There is no consensus on the actual cost.
I think Marie quoted that study although I’ve seen it and may have posted it in the past. I’d be curious how badly the local hospital thinks non-payers have effected its profit.
A Southern town with which I’m familiar - I lived for a decade in that region - followed new state law that disallowed illegal immigrants from using some benefits offered by its health clinic (not the emergency room). They offered the services to undocumented people if they paid and found that the majority did indeed pay.
http://www.daltondailycitizen.com/archivesearch/local_story_259231026.html
But immigration itself has increased. Remember Colgan citing the people from El Salvador who came here as refugees? There was some huge number of those folks who settled here in PWC. Also, since we live in the DC Metro area, we can assume we will have large numbers of immigrants. Cities attract immigrants, but the nation’s capitol attracts even more. So you can’t prove ESOL stats using the illegal immigration argument, especially, as you point out, the schools don’t deal with citizenship status (nor should they have to).
We also should remember that many, many illegal immigrants DO pay taxes and social security. You can’t ignore that population even if we don’t know who they are. You also can’t ignore the fact that many in that status don’t file for tax returns–they just keep paying into the system. For all we know, they have paid their dues fifteen times over.
Kgotthardt, I did not dispute that illegal immigrants pay taxes and social security. I was merely stating that both sides use the “positive financials” and the “expense financials” of illegal immigrants and that both agendas use statistics for their arguments and there are so many studies that seem to justify both sides.
Did you read my post above where I pointed out that the exact same study used by Marie (sorry Censored) at 8:30 AM that extolled the money illegal immigrants put into the economy estimates that 50% of illegal immigrants do not pay Federal or State Income taxes, which would include Social Security taxes. So 1/2 pay and the government keeps their money and 1/2 do not pay any Fed/State Income taxes according to the same study used to bolster the claim that illegal immigrants pay their share.
That’s my point, one study saying supporting two different arguments, as each agend searches for.
Regardless of taxes, I think that a point raised in the first movie is…what should the USA do for the foreign born children who were brought here as minors. I and many of my collegues have encountered such children and we worry about what is to become of them as they reach majority and graduate from local high schools. Many on this site might want to lament their parents for their failure to pay taxes..but the fact is that these students were brought here as minors, they attended school in the US, the US is the only country they know. Many are barely bilingual, and barely are the least bit biliterate. Imagine being illegally brought to this country when you were 3yrs by your parents. You go to school, learn English, never visit the country of your birth, are marginally bilingual, and 15 years later you turn 18, graduate from a US high school, and you discover that you have no options. What are the avenues for these children? Where do they go? Can they apply for a green card? I ask because I do not know. But if anyone has an idea for an amnesty program, I firmly believe that these are the people the US should focus on first. They can provide birth certs and school records, and they are here thru no other reason than their parents. They deserve to stay.
No, they cannot apply for a green card.
That’s all you have to say? No advice, no alternatives?
Grow up here as an illegal minor child, and essentially be screwed by the fact that once you turn 18 you are eligible for deportation. If the govt allows these children to be enrolled in public schools, and once they graduate the students are essentially deportable, why are they counted toward the AYP scores? If their parents pay no taxes, and even if they do, why does the fed govt and the St of Va count their grad scores toward AYP. If the State of Va wants to be truly fair then maybe they should remove all foreign born/soon to be deported students from the feds ayp rolls.
You stated an opinion and asked the question if they were eligible for a green card and I answered it.
The government “allows” these children to be enrolled in public school because of a 1982 Supreme Court decision (Plyer) that stated all children in the United States, regardless of legal status, must be afforded an education and I agree with that. Its not that the government “allows” them to attend, and I am not so sure that if the Supreme Court didn’t force them to do so that they would.
What do you think Corey Stewart would have done if he had the authority to deny illegal immigrants a public school education? So the government has been forced to do something by the Supreme Court for the overall good of society.
The court’s decision does not, obviously, apply to a college education.
DB,
There is no advice. Those kids are screwed. They cannot go to most colleges or universities. I believe they can go to NOVA and pay out of state tuition. (not positive on that one) They cannot work legally. I don’t know of any way they can get a driver’s license. No, it isn’t their fault.
On the one hand, some who shall go unnamed, but will probably show up here to gloat, will say Good! That serves their parents right for coming here illegally. On the other hand, those kids had no say-so and I am not willing to say the sins of the father will be visited upon the son…or however it goes. These same kids may have siblings who are perfectly legal and who can go to college, get a job, etc because they were born here.
Perhaps these are the new throw-away kids. It is a damn shame and I sincerely hope they are included in any type of immigration reform that is on the horizon. I will fight for those kids to have a chance if they have worked hard in school and have kept their noses clean.
The legislation that attempted to address this issue was/is called “the dream act” which would have allowed individuals in these situations be permitted to pay in state tuition at colleges, among other points. It would also have set up a path to citizenship for those students who qualified and fulfilled all of the required provisions. Unfotunately, in typical congressional style, it was loaded up with several provisions that caused the usual political bickering. It would have allowed people who were brought to the US illegally before the age of 15 and were between the ages of 12 and 30 (?) at the time the law was enacted to qualify.
Of course, raising the age to 30 by the amnesty crowded set off the anti-amnesty crowd as did the future ability of the students to bring their relatives to the US to apply for citizenship once they had attained it themselves.
It has been defeated several times in the Congress.
I think what many people struggle with is the idea that if you give these kids a pass, in the form of in-state tuition, drivers licenses, etc. then you create more incentive for people to come here illegally, and so it goes, on and on. I don’t know how you can reconcile the issue to everyone’s satisfaction, short of reinterpreting the 14th amendment. People’s actions have consequences, don’t they? Adults commit crimes and go to prison, and what happens to their children? People dump themselves into a foreign country in hopes that that country will simply take care of the needs of their families, and that has consequences, too. Having to return to one’s country of birth, assuming you are not going to be killed or persecuted as a result, does not seem to be the end of the world for these kids. People gamble all the time with their futures and with the fortunes of their families, and sometimes, unfortunately, they pay the price.
I’ll be happy to extend in-state tuition to illegal-immigrant children when every state in the U.S. extends it to military personnel and their families (not all do). Until that occurs, too bad for those kids.
“Kgotthardt, I did not dispute that illegal immigrants pay taxes and social security.”
I know you didn’t, Lucky. I was just reminding everyone–public service message
emma I do trully understand where you are going as far as US military are concerned. My brother is a SGT in the army, ten years in, and 2 two tours in Iraq. Current housing allowance is 900.00, so he went to Korea to avoid a third tour, and his wife is living in a a dog-pee ridden home. Yes, adults commit crimes but their children are innocents.
Emma,
Outside your door is the real world. Have you ever been out there?
They built our roads. They built our homes. They built our office buildings working 12-14 hour shifts in one of the most dangerous jobs in the country.
And now the people who work in the office cubicles, whose greatest work hazard is finding a nice place to eat lunch, in their air conditioned cubicles, with their steady paychecks, and their secure medical benefits…now those over privileged brats want to deny the children of these immigrants…the children who are the VERY reason why these immigrants risked their lives building those office buildings…now these loud office worker brats want to deny the immigrants’ children the one thing their fathers and mothers sacrificed so much and so long for…hope.
What actions did this 16 year old innocent boy take to have his jaw broken? None, besides having black skin. And he’s lucky that the cop ran away after breaking his jaw. A more seasoned cop, who knew how to play the game, would have charged the kid with felony assault on a police officer to cover his tracks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61lb7_sHrMU
And if you doubt that a cop would lie like that, here are two cops (a twofer) doing exactly that because they thought they could get away with it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eIlr0UGcI0
Emma, outside your door is the real world. Have you ever been out there?
It just makes me sick when I see disabled vets scrambling for the medical and mental-health care they need and deserve, military families living in substandard housing and unable to get a break on tuition for their kids, and then I’m supposed to worry about the quality of services that illegal immigrants feel they are entitled to.
You’re right, DB.This is a sore spot for me.
Mackie,why does every discussion turn to your abject hatred for law-enforcement? I used to find you interesting and occasionally entertaining, but you’ve lost all credibility with your incessant cop-bashing. Yes, I do live in the real world, Click yourself out of YouTube and join in.
City trio bound over in Manassas murder. All three men are also being held on Immigration and Customs Enforcement detainers, prosecutors said.
http://www.insidenova.com/isn/news/crime/article/city_trio_bound_over_in_manassas_murder/19839/
Emma, It makes me ill also to see any vets living on the street and not getting medical and mental health care that they need. It made me sick to see the sub-standard facilities they had to endure at Walter Reed several years ago.
It also makes me sick to see that our troops don’t always have the supplies they need while in harms way over seas. It makes me sick that the hired guns of blackwater make so much more money than our own military personnel and and have state of the art equipment.
However, this has nothing to do with how the throw away kids of the illegal immigrants are treated. It almost reminds me of that story, A Man Without a Country. Can you imagine being all grown up and facing the prospects of either going to a country where you barely know the language and customs or staying in a country illegally where you cannot work and cannot continue your education? Sort of explains gangs doesn’t it?
Lucky Duck,
You have now stated why there is a “stand off” in this debate about illegal immigration. We all have “our” facts to support our beliefs on this issue. So, the question thus remains, how will we come up with a solution if we can’t come to some consensus on the “problem” ?
In the meantime, human beings suffer, those in neighborhoods who feel abandoned by their local government, state government, and federal government. While in turn many see the need for immigration, legal AND illegal in the broader context of an economic dilema and finally, there are those who see this as a basic human rights issue.
I really believe that history should serve as our best teacher. How do we learn from the past of our immigration “solutions”, the solutions that worked and the ones that did not. Therein lies our answer to the future. I would really like to have a credible panel, with immigration experts, share their knowledge with us.
I don’t see the kids as “throw away.” I have trouble understanding how parents can be willing to gamble with their childrens’ lives and futures. Unfortunately, that gamble pays off enough for this to happen over and over again, and it will keep happening as long as the incentives are there.
A Man Without a Country–Were you referring to the Kurt Vonnegut essays, or the story about the man who renounced the U.S. and was exiled to live on naval warships for the rest of his life?
Why would anyone complain about the fact that people want to come to be part of our country and want to raise their families here?
Don’t take this blessing for granted.
Wait until the day that people can’t wait to leave our country en masse for greener shores. Perhaps after Al Queda detonates weapons of mass destruction in multiple american cities.
Who is going to come here to help rebuild?
Emma,
I see any child who approaches adulthood without hope of a decent job or further education, regardless of what they do as a ‘throw away.’
I don’t think you or I can speak to the conditions some of these people come from. Some of the countries are war-torn. Some of the people come from extreme poverty where chickens run through the house, there is no running water, the homes have dirt floors, and nutrition is poor at best. Some people come from areas where they need to escape gangs and extreme criminal behavior.
I don’t know what is gambling with your children’s lives: staying or going to America illegally. I would need to walk a mile in someone else’s moccassins before I would know the answer to that one.
Elena, I do believe that there is a political stand off when it comes to immigration reform. Both sides have hardened agendas and won’t seem to give an inch. When the Kennedy/McCain bill was presented it was endorsed by the Republican President and shot down by Republican and Democratic members of Congress. So even the bill that had at least some bipartisian support failed because of members on both sides.
What do I think it will take? It will take a super majority of one party to gain a filibuster proof number that will ultimately make a decision and force the other party to go along. There is simply no cross party majority that seems to work. Its failed twice in the last three years. What will be different the next time the issue comes up if its the same people in Congress?
A lot of people on this blog have stated that wait until either Obama or McCain get into office because they are both for immigration reform and it will pass. Well, whatever your feelings on Bush, he too, was for immigratin reform it still DID NOT pass. So even if the President is for reform, until a filibuster proof or veto proof majority is elected in Congress, I don’t think you’ll see much change in people’s agendas or outlooks or a bill passed. Its a stale mate in which only big business wins.
Emma, I was actually thinking of the short story written by Edward Hale that was written in 1863, during the Civil War. It was actually written as pro-union propaganda but the whys and wherefores are irrelevant as to why I am reminded.
The protagonist can never set foot on US soil and dies at sea. The point is that he belongs no where. I see children of illegal immigrants as being in the same boat, so to speak, even though they may not have cursed the United States as Nolan did.
I am not familiar with Kurt Vonnegut’s Man Without a Country. Sorry.
Lucky Duck,
I don’t see anything really changing so that legislation will pass to reform immigration. Both sides seem entrenched in their own agendas. The closest thing we had to a compromise was shot down last year, mainly because of conservative talk shows giving a call to arms over it, before the average person had an opportunity to digest it.
Unfortunately, the anti-immigration crowd got hold of it and defined its contents before it had a chance. Any pathway to citizenship or even legal residency was decried as AMNESTY regardless of how many hurdles were placed before those here illegally. Compromise is needed but I do not see the anti-immigration crew as compromise kind of people. (and I call them anti-immigration without apology)
Lucky Duck, I see your words as being right on the money.
“I have trouble understanding how parents can be willing to gamble with their childrens’ lives and futures.”
Emma, if you saw some of the conditions these people live in, you might understand more. What’s worth? Gambling or death? I would choose the gamble myself.
We have so many choices in this nation that we take them for granted. We expect to be able to have privleges. We expect that if we don’t like one place, we can do something about it or go to another place. Most of the world does not hold this assumption because they do NOT have choices. We saw this in the movie over the weekend.
Now you have to admit, in terms of sheer vulgarity it would be funny if someone snuck this in and showed it as a short before one of the main features - it would so thoroughly horrify the crowd. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rr800IK_aVI
It is hard to have a comment for that, Rick. Now do YOU think that is a funny video?
I think it would have been slightly funny if he had not made the racist remarks he did.
Lucky Duck said : “A lot of people on this blog have stated that wait until either Obama or McCain get into office because they are both for immigration reform and it will pass. Well, whatever your feelings on Bush, he too, was for immigratin reform it still DID NOT pass. So even if the President is for reform, until a filibuster proof or veto proof majority is elected in Congress, I don’t think you’ll see much change in people’s agendas or outlooks or a bill passed. Its a stale mate in which only big business wins.”
Exactly right. But the status quo is causing so much friction that I think they’ll have to say Uncle eventually. Amnesty’s a dead duck though, you’re right about that. If Obama or McCain has the balls to try to push it, they’ll get a s***storm like no other.
The issue hasn’t yet defined the two men yet to many Americans, the way it has to me. But if they actually push for Amnesty as President (the way Bush did), it will become a defining issue, way beyond Gays in the Military for Clinton and Stem Cell research for Bush.