Where is the humanity in chaining a woman, by both wrists, while she labored in agony?
I understand that there are legal issues with this case. I know that many some will say “She got what she deserved, after all, she was in this country illegaly, and was given prior deportation notices.” To the men who have NO clue what childbirth entails, this was cruel and unusual punishment, her 8th amendment rights were violated in my mind. No woman, in the midst of labor, is going to be a flight risk out of a hospital. Furthermore, she was kept chained AFTER she gave birth, for six hours, and was denied her G-d given right to breastfeed her newborn. I am sickend and appalled by this case.
p.s. hyperlink located on the word “case”, click on it and it leads you to the video
The process of birth is a sacred , and that this woman was chained like an animal, is beyond my understanding. Birth is a very unique biological process, that only women will ever understand. Your body tells you the positions that are most condusive to birthing your baby, positions that minimize pain, and this woman was denied that very basic right. She wasn’t an ax murderer for G-d’s sake!
That this happened in the 21st century in the United States of America is appalling.
Wjat’s happened to the American values that the world respected…
In Africa rebels hack the hands or arms off of innocent children just because they are from another region. The world is unfortunately full of acts that are barbaric, and this pales by comparison even though I don’t agree with it. Ever think of the fact that most countries at times take healthy young men, give them weapons, and then send them off to be killed or maimed? It’s a necessary evil that protects the defenseless ones who remain behind, and I suspect this was done for protection purposes also. There are a ton of potential weapons in a hospital setting that could make for a bad situation.
Read the story. They uncuffed her. Her supporters think the main outrage is that she was taken in at all rather than let go.
Now we have another “anchor baby” and one whose mother is a lawbreaker with a sense of entitlement from being Latino.
I’m pretty sure that is the main driver here, Rick, and that was the point in posting this in the first place, but….
…having given birth a few times myself, I cannot imagine being handcuffed up until 2 hours before giving birth. There comes a point during transitional labor that you are almost literally climbing the walls. That was stupid and inhumane, at the very least, for the jailers not to give her the freedom to move around and use her hands. I think in this case you have to have experienced labor to know what I’m talking about.
SA
But she is a good person in many other ways. Many share your sentiment and are good people.
Many share your thoughts about what goes on in the world, many as my ultra conservative friend says “hold my nose and shop at WalMart” and she admits she tries not to think about the 8 year old slave labor that helps provide her, a rather independently wealthy person, save $.80. She loves keeping that $.80. I would not say she worked hard to earn it either. A popular comment of hers is “well, I can’t do anything about it…..”. She is a fanatical churchgoer and very proud of the image she casts as an ultra conservative Republican Catholic. I think the image she hopes to project outweighs any deep rooted beliefs.
I can’t do that. I can’t control the world, but I can control my participation in it. I have been taught that is a personal responsibility. So, I will continue to speak up, vote accordingly and as it appears my values are in the minority when it comes to illegal aliens, at least I am satisfied with what I did or didn’t do. Think that’s what it comes down to at the end. Never been to the end (!), but based on comments from elderly relatives, that is what they say.
So we disagree, it’s not the end of the world, but I think your approach is going to override…. Mr. S will prevail because it appears to be working as he reminds us. Many won’t care how, just that it is or appears to be and they can go on with their day.
“Many share your thoughts about what goes on in the world, many as my ultra conservative friend says “hold my nose and shop at WalMart” and she admits she tries not to think about the 8 year old slave labor that helps provide her, a rather independently wealthy person, save $.80. She loves keeping that $.80. I would not say she worked hard to earn it either.”
Kinda reminds me of some regular posters on this blog living in their segregated communities in Haymarket. The world is full of hypocrits.
I don’t feel sorry for her. She was here for 12 years illegally. She made a joke of our legal system. And her lawyer wants to continue to do so. She wasn’t tortured. She was taken to a hospital. She was treated quite humanely as far as I can see. Seems to me childbirth is torturous whether or not your hands are free (and her hands were free for 8 hours in the middle of it).
Do any of you ever ask questions like “If she had 4 kids and was here illegally, why was she having another?” Isn’t that irresponsible? Or am I being too judgemental and culturally biased on that point.
Bad things happen in jail and in detention. But nothing much happened to this woman. As to the general principle of not being especially nice to detainees, I support it and would like to see them all trteated harshly and rudely, so when they go home they will communicate to their countrymen/women that they’re not really wanted here.
This is shameful treatment–I worked as a nurse for many years, and on the occasion when convicted prisoners had to be hospitalized, they were not treated like this. They had armed guards at the bedside and outside their hospital room doors, and nurses were escorted in and out for their safety. Keep in mind, in some cases, these were convicted, violent offenders–very bad people. But they were never cuffed to a bed. In fact, in most states, this kind of restraining is illegal.
Regardless of what a person has done, it does not justify violating their right to humane treatment. If this is what America has become, it is a shameful disgrace. -SC
America has become shameful and disgraceful because we allow the wealthy to circumvent rule of law, resulting in increased poverty and increased lawlessness and increased disparity of wealth, and lower wages, and we collectively are lazy enough to accept this.
We have two sets of rules in America, one for people who speak English and one for people who speak Spanish, and that is truly a disgraceful state to have evolved to.
I must have missed the article, does someone have a link to it?
There is a hyperlink on the word “case”. It will lead you to the article.
Yes, Rick, lets communicate to the rest of the world how inhumane we can be to women in birth. Great strategy.
SA,
How do the atrocities of other countries excuse our behavior as Americans?
Mando
Agree, but as you see from some posters, they are not interested in how they (illegals) are treated, they just want them gone. This attitude is one of the few that I believe does transcend economics……and is, unfortunately fast becoming the majority.
However, I doubt you will find a woman on either side of the arguement that would agree with:
” She wasn’t tortured. She was taken to a hospital. She was treated quite humanely as far as I can see. Seems to me childbirth is torturous whether or not your hands are free (and her hands were free for 8 hours in the middle of it).”
This man does not even accord women posters the respect of being more expert on the pain associated with childbirth and I deduce that he thinks 8 hours of her hands being free is sufficient. Or he thinks that people different from us don’t hurt like us. He is just one of those that want the problem removed from there sight and does not care how it’s done.
OMG - such horrible spelling and grammer……
Mando,
What is your point about people who live in haymarket? Are we not allowed to feel empathy for our fellow human beings? That IS the point of the story in case you missed it.
Absolutely disgusting.
I’ve had a whole week of thinking, “Why have we not yet evolved as a race? WHY? WHY do we treat each other like this? Is legal status any excuse to treat human beings as less than human beings, as less than living beings?” It started with viewing the Civil War video at Manassas Battlefield on Monday. I think it needs a “sensitive viewer” warning.
My fish died. He was four years old. He lived a long life. We planted him with flowers. My husband says, “He will make a beautiful flower.” We are all connected and how we treat the living and the dying makes a difference. When will we learn that we reap what we sow? When?
Elena, the green-eyed monster appears to be alive, well, and hiding among the BVBL posters. Haha. I guess they prefer a more socialist distribution of wealth…as though that equal distribution ever truly existed in socialist countries!
I would think the jail personnel could have shown a bit of discretion in their treatment of this woman. I wonder if any other “prisoner” who had a medical emergency or pre-existing medical problem would have been treated this way.
KG - “One” by Bono.
KG wrote - We are all connected and how we treat the living and the dying makes a difference. When will we learn that we reap what we sow? When?
“This man does not even accord women posters the respect of being more expert on the pain associated with childbirth ”
Oh goodness
“and I deduce that he thinks 8 hours of her hands being free is sufficient.”
Apparently it was.
“Or he thinks that people different from us don’t hurt like us. He is just one of those that want the problem removed from there sight and does not care how it’s done.”
Within limits. This is well within those limits.
I submit to you that your concern for the overwhelming inhumanity of it all is part of the reason women like this one have so many kids - because after all you’ll always be willing to help her foot the bill - and risk staying here illegally all, this time while having kids - because after all nothing really traumatic like having her hands tied could ever happen if it makes her feel bad.
“Mando,
What is your point about people who live in haymarket? Are we not allowed to feel empathy for our fellow human beings? That IS the point of the story in case you missed it.”
Your empathy is selective to what furthers your agenda. Hypocracy. That’s my point.
“Elena, the green-eyed monster appears to be alive, well, and hiding among the BVBL posters. Haha. I guess they prefer a more socialist distribution of wealth…as though that equal distribution ever truly existed in socialist countries!”
Socialist??? I’m all about capitalism. What keeps me in my neighborhood isn’t the lack of means to get out. I could flee to Haymarket and climb on that soapbox. I’m just not like that. I have freinds and family in my neighborhood. I couldn’t live with myself if I packed up and fled to a segregated community.
Shall I provoke you more and tell you some things that would not bother me if done systematically to each and every illegal alien before deportation :
Waterboarding
Stacking them into naked pyramids and jumping on top
Slapping them in the face
Branding them with irons for ease of future identification
Not because I’m sadistic. Simply because we are either overly welcoming (the current situation) or we are not. We collectively need to go one way or the other.
Things I wouldn’t be comfortable with :
genocide, serious physical abuse, rape
Things I would be :
mental torture (limited, not continuous), some slapping and pushing, branding or tatooing, tying their hands down as long as 2 hours before childbirth
Elena - I think he was responding to my post. The topic is horrible, however, the majority of people don’t want to know about it or be told. Why? Because they want the illegals to go away and they don’t want to know how it’s done or what happens. That is what Mr. S is banking on and winning on.
My point was this attitude crosses economic divides. The wealthy are snotty and cavalier about it and the not wealthy are angry.
Rick - did I read that correctly? You are okay if we tie down women’s hand two hours before birth? Do you mean beginning of labor or actual birth? Do you mean to include transition or exclude that?
Or, as it appears, you really don’t give a rats a#@?
Rick,
I feel sorry for you, all that hate makes you unable to empathize. I hope I never get to such a dark place.
Elena - He never experienced birth. It’s immaterial to him. That is the nature of many as I am finding. There will be alot of elbow room in heaven!!!
PS - don’t feel sorry. That is a choice he has made. Free will and all……
How is my empathy selective Mando? I have empathy for communities that are struggling with many neighborhood issues, but I can also have empathy for people struggling and working to live in a country that allows us all to create our own destiny. The issue is that this woman was treated like an animal, and no matter what LABEL you are given by a man made system, you are STILL a human being. NOW, do you think you could actually comment on the topic and not me.
” Stacking them into naked pyramids ” I know we are not supposed to bring up Hitler, but can we say Hermann Goering?
Juturna, that’s exactly what I thought having watched “Night and Fog” this week.
This is all choice. All of it.
Censored - not to mitigate your comment, but I didn’t need to have recent reminders for that one to jump out at me. But, I have been worried about heaven getting too crowded. These blogs are easing my worries some.
Do you know the story of the long handled spoon and heaven and hell?
Rick Bentley Shanda Zim Goyim!
Who is Rick Bentley?
In my opinion your own birth was a waste Rick…
Now, remember, he does make me feel better about heaven so……. and it’s all about me!
“I hope I never get to such a dark place.” I’ll bet a lot more people would if they lived through what I did in my neighborhood. Maybe you wouldn’t. But a lot more people would.
I can empathize. It doesn’t rob me of my ability to think rationally though. Half of
exico is interested in coming here and 15% is here already. If we had done that Amnesty in 2007, there’d be 50 million more here.
“” Stacking them into naked pyramids ” I know we are not supposed to bring up Hitler, but can we say Hermann Goering? ” That’s been done more recently than Nazi Germany.
She should not have been in this country in the first place. It is all her fault for putting herself in this postion. She made the choice to sneak in our country illegally.
Wouldn’t it be great Rod if all of us that has a bad experience or disaster in life could take it out on some strangers so we would feel better???? Or are the rest of us just supposed to let these folks get away with parking in the fire lane, or entitlements, bad grades/performance in schools just becuase they’ve had a bad experience or their Mommy’s didn’t teach them any better.
Yup, Rick Bentley doesn’t look much different to me than those po’ folks we are supposed to medicalize or socialize their bad behavior. Give Al Sharpton a call, Rick, he is on your side, man.
Who is Rick Bentley?
Someone who died a long time ago, there is nothing left to control his existance but blind hatred, to Rick, G-D is dead.
Who is Rick Bently?
Rick Bently is now Al Sharptons newest fan. Al, takes care of the disenfranchised and makes them feel better by helping them lash out against all wrongs committed against them and helps them justify it.
Rick thinks living in a bad neighborhood is the same as being tied down and/or tortured.
The difference is he can MOVE.
It’s pretty hard to move or give birth when one is tied down.
Clearly, Rick has big problems, one of them being he is a misogynist.
“Wouldn’t it be great Rod if all of us that has a bad experience or disaster in life could take it out on some strangers so we would feel better???? ”
I don’t know Rick, don’t really want to either, but I know from life experience that you can transform collective rage into productive energy.
With Rick’s thoughts on how much non-Americans are worth, i’d say it won’t be long before his collective hate breaks him.
Rick, yes, it’s been done more recently…by us (er…by the US). Fernando Botero showed us Abu Ghraib.
Rick,
I feel so sorry for you. I also feel sorry for people in your life (loved ones, those your work with, strangers you encounter) if this is your attitude. Your seemingly gleeful willingness to use this as provocation of posters on this site and your list of horrible things you would be OK with in deportation efforts is very telling…it reflects a level of dehumanization of others that is potentially dangerous.
You seem to have some wounds that run pretty deeply, Rick. My hope is that you will have some kind, compassionate, loving people come into your life, so that you can heal and move into a more positive direction. I don’t want you to wake up every day afraid of the world and angry against it. That’s no way to live.
Rick - don’t blame your bad manners on living in a bad neighborhood. I live smack dab in the middle of Point of Woods and don’t have such a rotten attitude towards my fellow man. There’s no excuse for supporting those sorts of torture (and yes, waterboarding is torture).
“A spokeswoman for the sheriff confirmed Juana Villegas was deported and ordered to leave the country in 1996. So, in the eyes of jail staffers, Villegas was a “medium security” inmate, which required the inmate to be restrained in some way even if she was nine months pregnant.”
This is why she was detained - not because she was Hispanic, but because she had already been deported and returned. Was the treatment of her wrong - absolutely. Thankfully my first labor was only 4 hours, so I didn’t have to go through agony long.
I have to laugh at how upset some of you got by what I posted … I’ve been behaving pretty well here, I’m usually MUCH more abrasive.
Off now to live my miserable life and smack a few stray dogs with baseball bats …
Caio…. did you give Al a call yet?
For the first time Rick I will call you something: STUPID! You can go to BVBL and tell your friends that I call you a name. You cannot say that something is OK unless you have experienced.
Have you experienced torture?
Also, what is your problem with Spanish-speaking people? I speak Spanish and I don’t expect to be treated differently.
I won’t call you racist (which is what you want) but your opinions show a lack of empathy for human beings.
“Off now to live my miserable life and smack a few stray dogs with baseball bats”… Go to the 7-11 and do it to day laborers. Even better take a bucket with water and try waterboarding. They are mocking the legal system so they are worse than dogs. By the way, Do you have dogs? Would you do the same thing to them?
I never abused a dog but I have seen others wack them hard enough with baseball bats to kill them … that’s what some kids where I grew up are taught to do with stray dogs that follow them home. I wouldn’t do that myself, but I’d certainly inconvenience and even hurt the dog, before me or anyone else had to resort to nearly killing them with a baseball bat. I know the world is a far harsher place than many of you can deal with. Most of you are afraid to “kick” the illegal aliens and you encourage them to come here, History and human nature show that eventually something bad will happen to them.
Did you all see the artcle today about the illegal alien who lived in Sanctuary DC and may well have killed Chandra Levy? He was let loose on a burglary charge and then attacked two women? Does HE deserve a wack with a baseball bat? I think so.
No Rick, I realize how harsh the world is - you are elightening me with each new post. I just reserve the righteous anger for those people will terminally ill children. People like you are not deserving of that righteous anger when there are people with far more serious situations than yours. But people like you will never see that.
Of course I think the guy should be wacked…… but how do you equalize that with a woman in labor?
Elena said:
“this woman was treated like an animal”
Seems to me, from the information I’ve read, she was treated like a flight risk.
Elena said:
“I have empathy for communities that are struggling with many neighborhood issues”
No. You pay lip service to them. That’s obvious.
Rick did you get your ass kicked a lot as a kid? or are you trying to make up for the lack of it in the present?
Mando, you like to take a lot of cheap shots at Elena. What have you done to help your community? Elena is a good public speaker and she has used that talent. I get the impression that some of you guys/gals want everyone to physically come out to your neighborhoods and solve all your problems. We’re asking that you at least be as involved as you expect us to be.
I took a tour last night of some of the neighborhoods in Manassas that have generated many complaints - GTS, Point of Woods, Ashton Glen, and a couple others. I see the main problem in most of these areas being the number of units that were allowed to be built and a large number of for sale/foreclosures. The parking allowances are pathetic and I can see where parking could become a contentious issue. It’s a problem in most townhouse developments but the sheer number of units in some of those neighborhoods makes it worse.
“Mando, you like to take a lot of cheap shots at Elena.”
No. I take issue with those insulated from the problem taking issue with those whom deal with the problem on a daily basis. Especially to the degree as some on this blog.
Like officials and residents in MD last year. The rhetoric was INCREDIBLE… until… the exodus… changed course… and headed to MD. After that, the rhetoric kinda vaporized. Arlington as well. Hypocracy at its finest. The PBS case was my favorite. That one takes the cake. Let’s MOAN and WAIL about the plight of the day laborers… waitaminute… they’re setting up shop across the street!?!?!? WHOAA WHOOAAA WHOAAAAA!!!
I guess I’ll just have to wait for the exodus to Haymarket for the rhetoric here to ebb.
“What have you done to help your community?”
My fair share but of course I could always do more. Seems to be working for the most part. Still a long way to go though.
While I didn’t read where she was denied the ability to breast feed her baby. Did I miss it in the article, or are you assuming that? Perhaps having both hands restrained was a bit of overkill, I think in your pity for this woman, you are missing a few key points. First, she was deported before. She had to know that if she were caught again, the law would be much tougher on her. Second, she is a repeated and habitual offender with regards to her driving without a license. She had to know that one of these days a stop would result in an arrest, with her being a previousley deported illegal alien.
Why so much sympathy for someone who repeatedly breaks Federal and State law? Oh, that’s right. She was just here in search of a better life. You know what? My life would be much better if I had a 72″ plasma TV and a Porsche. Since I don’t have one, I guess it’s my right to take someone elses.
Let’s go through the story and substitute the word ‘kidney stone’ or ‘heart attack’ for childbirth, or perhaps ‘nuts in a vise-grip.’ The black velvets wouldn’t admit that it bothered them if it were (best black velvet voice) AN ILLEGAL but I bet they would wince where we can’t see them
Right guys? I know, you can’t confirm that. Your silence is now deafening.
Censored - I could not let your comment about your tour of neighborhoods including Point of Woods go by. I wish parking were by far the worst problem in Point of Woods. In fact, on my block there is enough spaces for 2 cars per townhouse, with even a few extra spaces beyond that left over. And, by the HOA rules, you are only allowed to park 2 cars per townhouse in the lot, the rest must be parked on the street (Stonewall Road). Now, admittedly in some older pieces of Point of Woods there may not be enough spaces for 2 cars per lot. But anyway, parking is the least of the problems. AND, all the foreclosures on my block are former flophouses - good riddance to them. Two of those, and some other foreclosures, were bought at the height of the real estate craziness when the townhouses were selling for $360K or more - ridiculous prices by any stretch of the imagination.
Finally, that’s not the worst of the problems - other problems are huge amounts of broken glass (daily - as I’ve tried many times cleaning it up and it just comes back sometimes as often as the next day), graffiti (some brand new gang graffiti in Stonewall Park as of yesterday), crime (go take a look at the City of Manassass police blotter for the past few months in Point of Woods and you’ll see what I mean).
To say the main problems in the neighbhorhood are the number of units compared to parking, and currently the number of for sale/foreclosures - is definitely minimizing the problems, to say the least.
Finally, I hope you aren’t painting everyone with a broad brush as not trying to be invovled in our neighborhoods. I have tried for awhile, but I finally have decided to throw in the towel and move out. I hope the neighborhood will turn around, but I’m not waiting for it to do so.
And with that comment, I’m going to go back to not posting on here. My reasons for not posting are unchanged from before, so I won’t go back and repeat them. But, I could not let these inaccurate comments about the neighborhoods (at least Point of Woods) go by unchallenged.
It is easy for the people who don’t live in these neighborhoods, to make it sound like the problems are easy to solve when they are not. Well, maybe I’ll have a different point of view when I move to my new house, and can make the same kind of comments. It’s funny how some of the people who don’t live in these neighborhoods think solving the problems in them are so easy.
Mando, Elena didn’t have to have Mrs. Yeargo to know what a bad neighborhood is. She doesn’t have to be a martyr and live in a 50 year old decaying neighborhood to have empathy. She could have come from her own bad neighborhood and had the sense to get out when the getting was good.
You don’t have to have syphilis to know how to treat it or that you don’t want it.
“Let’s go through the story and substitute the word ‘kidney stone’ or ‘heart attack’ for childbirth, or perhaps ‘nuts in a vise-grip.’ The black velvets wouldn’t admit that it bothered them if it were (best black velvet voice) AN ILLEGAL but I bet they would wince where we can’t see them ”
As a 5 time survivor of kidney stones (which have been admitted by women that have given birth to be worse on the pain scale), if I’m thrown in the slammer for something I did I wouldn’t expect sympathy or leniency. I wouldn’t wince. I believe in something called responsibility.
“She could have come from her own bad neighborhood and had the sense to get out when the getting was good.”
I just wanted to reemphasize that statement. I guess we all should just flee for more segregated areas. Then we can start a blog and chastise those staying in their neighborhoods fighting for their communities while we hide behind a banner of diversity and sympathy. What a bunch of horse shit.
My neighborhood isn’t bad nor has it ever been. It could get there real quick if everyone just fled.
I’m thrown in the slammer for something I did I wouldn’t expect sympathy or leniency. I wouldn’t wince. I believe in something called responsibility.
Now, now, Mando, I don’t believe for one minute that you wouldn’t wince or expect sympathy. I’ve had kidney stones as had my father. I can’t compare that with childbirth but kidney stones can bring ya to your knees!
LPOW, I think that I’ve heard 3-4% of the housing stock in the City is overcrowded (or was overcrowded) so even the neighborhoods with problems are still relatively unaffected. Crime (burglary, car break-ins) exists in plenty of neighborhoods but is usually fairly rare. Basically, townhouse communities don’t have enough parking and people tend to get pissy when they come home from work after a long commute on our crowded roads or from a trip to the grocery store and can’t find a spot near their house. Repeat that often enough and tension between neighbors rises.
Mando, what sort of neighborhoods are we supposed to live in? My opinions are probably very similar to Elena’s and I live in a neighborhood that is mixed - by income, by house size and price, by careers, by education, by sexual orientation. Do I need to move to your neighborhood in order to have a valid view on immigration?
“Now, now, Mando, I don’t believe for one minute that you wouldn’t wince or expect sympathy. I’ve had kidney stones as had my father. I can’t compare that with childbirth but kidney stones can bring ya to your knees!”
5 times here. No joke. Hit me annually. Once for over a week.
Cuff me to a bed if I deserve it just don’t punch me in the side. That would be overboard. Let me drink water and pee. That would be all I ask.
“My opinions are probably very similar to Elena’s and I live in a neighborhood that is mixed - by income, by house size and price, by careers, by education, by sexual orientation.”
Flop houses?
Mando, the house next to me was over-crowded (by whites). Drainfield issues took care of that problem. There was even a illegal campground within our community. Zoning took care of that although it took 6 months. To talk to a couple women in this neighborhood, you’d think that we had an over-crowded house. Woooo. It is occupied by Hispanics and they do have five or six well-maintained trucks in the front yard. The complainers have shabby wooden fences, unrepaired cars, and an assortment of crapola in their yards, but they fail to see the irony - or their bigotry.
The occasional problem crops up, but we deal with it as we would have dealt with any zoning, building code, health related issue in the last twenty-five years.
Elena didn’t start the blog. Elena isn’t the blog owner. Elena is one of the administrators on this blog as am I. What on earth difference does it make where she lives? If Elena moved into my house would that give her the right, in some of your minds, to have an opinion?
I don’t live in Haymarket. In fact, I live right down here in the trenches. What attributes will you use to attempt to invalidate MY opinions?
Oh and as for the flop houses…I live next door to a house that takes in boarders. I would not characterize it as a flop house, but the owner definitely rents out rooms.
NOW am I allowed to have a voice here?
Rick,
I guess that in your world you only accept dogs and the “upper class” white people who as you said can afford $400k houses.
Keep posting don’t go away. Your statements show the minds (uneducated or ignorant) of people who are against immigration. i said immigration because you cannot accept anyone who doesn’t look like you.
Censored - fine, the parking stuff might apply to other neighborhoods or maybe parts of Point of Woods, but it doesn’t apply to my street. Especially with the foreclosures that were flophouses - ever since they became vacant even late at night there’s at least 5 empty spaces in the parking lot on my block. The problems on my block and near it (and there are many) have nothing to do with lack of parking, that’s for sure.
“Oh and as for the flop houses…I live next door to a house that takes in boarders. I would not characterize it as a flop house, but the owner definitely rents out rooms.”
If you neighbor rents a room to more than one person, then your neighbor is breaking the law. If you rent to more than one person, you meet the legal definition of running a boarding house, and boarding houses are illegal in PWC, Manassas, and Manassas Park.
Ed, I thought that up to four (?) unrelated people could rent a house in some jurisdictions. Or one family and two unrelated adults.
@ Censored and Moon-howler
You are certainly welcome to your opinions. If you live in the trenches as you say, then your opinions have more weight then someone that doesn’t.
Physicians will tell you that women in labor need to be mobile so that they can assume various positions as needed and so they can quickly be moved to an operating room. Having a woman restrained compromises the ability assume proper position for delivery and treatment. The mother and baby’s health could be compromised if there were complications during delivery such as hemorrhage or decrease in fetal heart beat. If there were a need for a C Section, the mother needs to be moved to an operating room immediately and a delay of even five minutes could result in permanent brain damage for the baby.
The treatment of Ms. Villegas was cruel and inhumane. We do not even treat our animals in this fashion. She was not a threat to anyone, not a violent criminal and was not going to flee. If the Sheriff thought she was a threat then maybe posting someone outside her door would have been sufficient.
Good lord. Enough rhetoric.
It’s not an uncommon practice. Google it. This woman was not cuffed because she was hispanic.
Mando, as PWC residents we all have our own priorities. It doesn’t negate the other guy’s priority but it doesn’t make it ours. The priorities are just different and we rank them differently when we fill out the county’s “satisfaction” survey. I’m not a particularly emotional type of person. I come to the immigration debate as someone who has lived through an era in the deeper South and who doesn’t like the way the issue of immigration has been handled in this county. There wasn’t much public discourse prior to enactment of the immigration resolution. (See the original proposals to see how Draconian the resolution would have been had Letiecq and co-horts had their way.) I see this as a fairness and common sense issue. Many people are in this country “illegally” because of paperwork issues and loopholes in our laws and immigration policy. They aren’t all over-crowding our neighborhoods, peeing on their front lawns, oogling the neighborhood teenagers, driving without licenses. The BVBL spin would have everyone believe that they are and the FAIR-generated emails would have the BOCS believe that the majority of the residents believe that as well. I merely want the debate to be honest.
“The BVBL spin would have everyone believe that they are and the FAIR-generated emails would have the BOCS believe that the majority of the residents believe that as well. I merely want the debate to be honest.”
And the anti-BVBL spin would have the BOCS believe we’re carrying out genocide and ethnic cleansing. Chaining hispanic women while they labor in agony!!! The humanity!!!
What exactly does this thread have to do with illegal immigration?
Mando, do you think that woman would have been chained to her bed had she not been determined to be in the US illegally? Do you think she would have been taken into the jail and not released with a ticket if not for her immigration status?
Like I said. It’s a common practice to CUFF PREGNANT WOMEN whom pose a flight risk. Don’t think we’re chaining hispanics here becuase they’re hispanic.
I guess it’s all in how you want to absorb the rhetoric.
The poor cop here is probably going to get raked through the coals for following protocol.
Any cop who couldn’t outrun a nine-month pregnant woman should probably hand in his or her badge.
Hi, Marie! Welcome back!
“Any cop who couldn’t outrun a nine-month pregnant woman should probably hand in his or her badge. ”
Well yeah. If the issue is cuffing pregnant women, with the limited information I have on the practice, can’t say that I agree with it unless they’re raving psycho lunatics.
I live in a single family house. I have lived in a lot worse area than I live now. I escaped. Yes, I am guilty of white flight, many years ago.
As for my neighbor renting out rooms, as long as they don’t cause me a problem, I am up for the old adage of ‘live and let live.’ They cause me a problem, then I start looking at the legality vs illegality. I have an ultimate trump card should I need it.
I believe the law is very iffy on what constitutes a boarding house and what does not. I am of the mind that the law needs to be tightened up a great deal. I also understand that PWC is dependent on what the state say.
I have a relative that lives in Stonington. They will tow your car at the drop of a hat. They do not fool around. If Stonington can be the car-towing nazis, what is wrong with some of these other HOAs? And as for the use the the word ‘Nazi,’ I never agreed not to use it. I say it without apology. That word became incorporated into our speech the last half of the 20th century.
Mando, I am sorry you have recurring kidney stones. The people I have known who have had been in horrible pain. My husband has gout, which is their first cousin. He is in extreme pain with it but I hear kidney stones are far worse. I hope you are staying away from lamb and other things that aggrevate them.
LPOW, how was your time away from us?
As for Point of Woods and its neighborhood problems…I am friends with an African-American family that left POW for Woodbridge in the 90s. They told me it was because the KKK was distributing information in the neighborhood. Yikes!
Sounds like BS to me. My fiance lived in POW’s most of her childhood. It was a very diverse neighborhood in the 80’s and 90’s.
The woman should not have been handcuffed during her hospitial stay. If she was a flight risk, she was accompanied by a correction’s officer or a sheriff’s deputy who could have waited outside the door. No excuse for the sheriff’s department’s actions while she was in the hospital. Common sense should prevail and concern for the person’s physical well being above all else.
By the way, anyone who has been deported and re-enters the US is considered under federal code to be a felon. It is also a Virginia code violation as a felony and if the computer check returns that information that person can be taken into custody.
If anyone is driving in Virginia without a license, they will in virtually all instances, be taken into physical custody and brought before a magistrate who will decide whether to release that person on a bond or commit them to jail In this jurisdiction. If that person is an illegal alien, more than likely they will be going to jail to await a court appearance the next day. That article is wrong that she should have been released because she presented an ID from another country. Virginia police do not accept another Nation’s Identification except for a valid Visa or Passport. A valid vehicle registration is no considered to be valid ID.
Still, there is no excuse for her hospital treatment and such actions cannot be defended nor tolerated.
Thank you Lucky Duck. Sound like they are missing a bit of professionalism at that agency. I wonder if that Police Department enjoys a 90% satisfaction with Police Behaviours, regardless of race of respondent, as does PWCPD.
Again, good manners. This situation mean bad manners and a gross lack of -professionalism. The officers are not judges and must remain objective. There role is custody and care not sentencing… good point Lucky Duck.
Yep, I grew up in Manassas City (80s and 90s), and always had friends that lived in Point of Woods. I know that neighborhood has lots of diversity. Where does it say that the KKK can’t drop stuff on people’s lawns in a diverse neighborhood? Didn’t the same thing happen more recently in other areas of Prince William County?
I heard this story from the family back in 1999, when I met them. I can’t think of a reason why they would just come up with that and spin some sort of elaborate lie out of the blue. I guess you don’t have to believe it if you don’t want to.
Rick Bentley et al who feel their civil rights are being trampled on by illegals -
help is on the way. I have contacted the National Action Network about issues in Manassas, surrounding areas and those that are in need of help for their crisis….. Unfortunately, I can’t fill out the forms or prepare the complaint for you. They want real names and stuff. Looks like they cover just about all of your complaints. Not sure if the County’s civil right commission is still intact, darn just when some government services are needed….. but you might try them as well.
Let us know how it work out!!
Crisis Department
To seek our assistance in a crisis please send a letter three pages or less, printed or typed, include your name, address and a contact number addressed to:
National Action Network (NAN) is one of the leading Civil Rights organizations in the nation, with numerous local chapters around the country. NAN works within the spirit and tradition of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. to promote a modern Civil Rights agenda that includes one standard of just and decency for all people regardless of race, social justice for communities, and the improvement of race relations.
Since Reverend Sharpton founded NAN in 1991, NAN has served as a megaphone for the voiceless and an advocate for those in need. NAN has taken on issues relating to voter registration, education, decency and police misconduct.
National Action Network
Crisis Department
106 W. 145th Street
Harlem, New York 10039
212-690-3070
877-NAN-HOJ1
Juturna
So does this mean Tawana Brawley will be the main attraction at the fair…… diving donkey will pale by comparision. Will she will be wearing a HSM shirt sporting Obama for Prez….. I know HSM is a diverse civic group.
maybe this illegal and her kid can come to elena’s house to breastfeed. wah…….
this anchor baby needs to head back home (along with the mother). Dont know why all the whining, in 3rd world countries I thought they abandoned their children. Dont you know this kid is going to grow up to be a member of ms-13 anyway so send them back now.
ALL ILLEGALS NEED TO BE GONE FROM PWC!! GOD PRAISE THE RESOLUTION, GOD PRAISE THE 287G PROGRAM, GOD PRAISE STUPID PEOPLE LIKE ELENA AND ALANNA ARE NOT POLITICIANS!!!
HALLELEUYA!!!!
SIVLE - must call you that. Cannot denigrate such a great man.
Just rolling my eyes at that last comment of yours. I see a deathbed conversion in your future….. keep your fingers crossed it works.
SIVLE? Uh oh…sounds to much like “civil”. Better make it “SNIVLE”
Juturna,
Excellent point “The King” should not be compared to the free Elvis knock off that posts here. And, silly me I thought Elvis was dead.
Snivle - works for me……
Think that is called autological - word that describes itself? Is there something else I am thinking of?????
Oh, had to go to Ask Oxford. Alwasy go with your first thought. It’s onomatopoeia.
thank you for clarifying the legal aspects of this case Lucky Duck. I stated from the outset that, clearly, there were legal issues, but her treatment by the sheriff was inhumane at best.
Elena
There are lots of law enforcement agencies. Most of them are professional and would not consider this appropriate treatment. Think the key is the professionalism which comes from the top.
Not that it matters, or that I need to share, but I will for some of you, who feel like I have no rights to my opinion on immigration. I moved out of my house(fairfax) at 18. I moved to South Arlington( I need to clarify from a previous post). For those of you who may be unfamiliar with South Arlington, it is VERY ROUGH to say the least. I loved the diversity and didn’t think much of it. From there I started moving west to be able to afford more for less. I always rented a room in a townhouse ( I wonder in Fairfax if we were breaking zoning laws now?!) I worked for full time and went to school part time. Finally, I ended up in Centreville. The neighborhood started out pretty homeogenous. Gradually, within seven years, there was a substantial number of Indians and Pakistani’s that had moved in. I won’t bore everyone with the stories, but the issues were almost identical to what I have seen described by many posters. I met my husband, and his dream was to own land he could ride a tractor on. I had never had such lofty goals, but this was his dream and so here I am. In beautiful Haymarket by the bull run mountains. I don’t believe I have to have suffered through starvation to want to stop world hunger, I don’t believe I have to have suffered through domestic abuse to want to help abused women, I don’t believe I have to live in squalor to know that I would not want to live that way. I believe that our unique human trait, to feel empathy, is what separates us from the animal kingdom. If my empathy offends people, well, nothing I can do about that, nor would I want to change that attribute in myself.
No one wants to be tied down during childbirth, and I can’t quite figure out why they expected a minimum security prisoner to run while she was in the midst of labor. I however was tied down during both of my childrens’ births. Since I had to undergo C-sections both times (unexpectedly both times) I was given a serious spinal block, then I was tied down (forearms, elbows and wrists). I did not ask to be tied down, it was decided for me. In fact I asked that my arms be released and I was told “NO!” I had to remain tied down after the birth of both of my children. I was shown them but I was unable to hold them. Honestly i feel for the mother but understand many mothers go thru the same experience regardless of their alleged race. It is often a hospital thing.
Childbirth has gotten much more civilized since I had my children. Patients have more rights. There is considerable difference between surgical restraints and law enforcement restraints.
I don’t think most mothers do go through anything similar.
The police committed a crime in interfering with this woman’s childbirth. They should be prosecuted for endangering the life of the unborn child and perhaps, to a lesser extent, the mother.
The police are not your friend. They are not here to protect you. They have no legal obligation to protect you. The Supreme Court has ruled so. They are servants of the state. They are the enforcers.
Only you can protect you. Know your rights.
If it had been my child, and I had seriously thought the the police officer was putting my child’s life in danger, I would have killed him on the spot. It would have been justifiable homicide in defense of the life of my child.
Elena, you are an admirable person for many reasons, empathy not the the least of them.
I know it is disappointing, but during this unfortunate period of hatred cultivated for partisan purposes, it should come as little surprise that these threads create a predictable split each time you and Alanna post them. Some people afford the same level of humanity to all people, regardless of skin color, religion, or (gasp!) immigration status. Others have subscribed to a doctrine that some people exist on a higher plane than others. They posit themselves on the higher plane of course, and thus devalue the basic humanity of certain people targeted for hate. There are countless examples of mistreatment and abuses in this country and abroad. But on a blog that tends to focus on the immigration issue, you will find the same partisans will pop up again and again to say THIS human being is less deserving of sympathy, or THIS injustice is allowable if a certain class of human being suffers it.
Threads that ask that an equal level of humanity be afforded to all will devolve the same way each time. It’s not that I disagree with you that human rights should be a goal we strive for as Americans, and it’s not that I see the shortcomings of other nations with regard to human rights as an excuse to fail ourselves, but I just wonder if the point you are making (and making effectively) is worth the pain it causes us to read that some of our brothers and sisters do not feel the same way.
Of course there are Americans who are not moved by human suffering if it is inflicted by “our people” on “their people.” They would not have taken the anti-immigrant side of the issue unless they fundamentally disagreed with your humanistic principles.
What we face today is not a question of whether such views exist in our society; it’s whether such views should prevail.
Moon-howler my birth experience was not so far ago, I had no rights, my DR and Surgeon claimed their rights and my husband agreed with them (Still paying for it). I ask you however what right medical staff has to tie down a woman who is in no danger of herself or others because she is so involved in her own pain. As a man you will never understand THE PAIN. There is no such thing as civilized child birth. It hurts no matter what, and in the midst of the pain one could actually plan the demise of all man-kind. No joke.
I wonder what those officers wives said to them.
DB,
Why on earth do you think I am a man? If I were a man, would I speak to having my children? I believe child-birth is far more civilized than it used to be. Mothers and fathers have more rights. I am sorry you had a bad time. I advise people to shop around for a good OB. Ask questions. Ask about hospital practices.
No one should be tied down at this time unless they are a danger to themself. I do believe I can address childbirth across generations.
Interesting that those on the dark screen are so contemptuous of PWCPD, while at the same time screaming law and order and Rule of Law. Does anyone find that ironic?
I find it strange that people who tout the rule of law are so derisive of those whose job it is to enforce the laws.
Excellent point junkyard dog.
Wow, excellent point Junkyard dog. Quite a dilema for them I’d say now that you make mention of it!
DB,
I do understand your pain, specifically as it relates to C/S’s. I don’t believe Moon-howler meant to belittle your pain, if that is indeed your impression. Many women experience traumatic births in this country, PPD and PTSD is reportedly very high. That this woman was handcuffed, because she was an illegal immigrant, is the point that people are making. I believe it may have validity. I hope this case is investigated further so that we may learn more of why this happened to this woman. It is’t like she was Harrison Ford from the movie “The Fugitive” !
Far be it from me to belittle child birth pain. You are definitely right on that score, Elena. That is when I developed the expression: PAIN HURTS.
Actually I am now finding DB’s reaction to my comment rather strange. Certainly a woman with two grown biological children should be able to comment on childbirth back in the day.
Actually, once again Lucky Duck said how things should have been handled. I will not reiterate.
WHWN,
Thanks for your encouraging words. I understand that Rick and others are frustrated and feel abandoned by their government, but to wish pain upon people, that is just beyond my comprehension. How are we to come to reasonable solutions if that attitude prevails?
Moon-howler,
I think DB just may have misunderstood your point ,and clearly, there is alot of emotional pain associated with her birth experiences. I can relate to that, although not necessarily for the same reasons.
Elena,
I think my gender was also misunderstood.
Yes, she did.
“but to wish pain upon people, that is just beyond my comprehension”
It’s not because I don’t recognize them as human. It’s because we either have a welcome mat out to illegal immigration, or a stop sign. Do you not wish pain on criminals? Do you not want them pinished and provided with disincentive?
Elena South Arlington is rough, true. But you didn’t quite have the same experience as me in that it was rough when you moved there, and you probably weren’t raising a family there at the time and you probably hadn’t invested everything you had in a small townhouse. I’m sure I’m more into anger and you’re more into empathy, but to some extent I’m sure that if our situations were reversed, you’d be a tad bit angrier and I’d be a tad bit more content to have a government run by elitists who tacitly support illegal immigration and amnesties every decade or so.
I don’t see Berry Hill Police Department or Nashville Police Department on the ICE list of approved agencies. So the ICE officers involved must have been Davidson County Sheriff’s Office. I find it hard to believe that DHS will not investigate this. When locals are granted federal authority I am sure there is some good review process. Although on the other hand (just can’t control the sarcasm) how often do you EVER recall any Federal Agency relinquishing controls to locals???? Only the stuff they don’t want???
One of the partnership purposes of ICE and locals is (from DHS website) I am not sure where this woman fits in: “The cross-designation between ICE and state and local patrol officers, detectives, investigators and correctional officers working in conjunction with ICE allows these local and state officers: necessary resources and latitude to pursue investigations relating to violent crimes, human smuggling, gang/organized crime activity, sexual-related offenses, narcotics smuggling and money laundering; and increased resources and support in more remote geographical locations.”
Here is the link http://www.ice.gov/partners/287g/Section287_g.htm
You don’t see them as human?
I have felt bad for your situation Rick, I’ve watched you here and on THE OTHER. You have let your anger consume you - totally. This is how I became involved. I tracked Lafayette for months on THE OTHER and did some drive bys. That’s what got me interested in the whole issue. However, she was able to get a grip and make some changes.
You do not sound healthy and you should see someone. Take some personal responsibility and get yourself under control before this backfires on you.
Oh, I misread…. however, it was not a giant leap based on some of your comments. I am serious that your anger has overtaken you. Aren’t you fortunate that we are more into empathy and can see your frustration rather than lump you into one mass group of unlucky people.
But seriously, see what you can do to get some help from local government, public defenders or family services….. I don’t think it’s healthy to go on like this. Contact one of the empathizing administrators here contact anyone and try to develop some options. Options are good.