AntiBVBL

I wonder how this person has the time to spend three hours a day, driving up and down the street, wasting his gas at 4 dollars a gallon. I understand that day laborers are an issue, I do, but I imagine there are more constructive ways to deal with this problem. I have a difficlt time, demonizing people, who are willing to work to pay their way. Rod’s comment a thread or two back was great in dealing with day laborer sites and included concrete suggestions for action.

Thanks for the find Moon-howler!

At least this man is NOT breaking any zoning violations with his sign.

corr: breaking *any* zoning violations.

Okay, this is a man who needs to find gainful employment. Has anyone else noticed that most of the anti-immigrant crowd doesn’t need to work? Who supports these people? -SC

He seems to have too much time on his hands and deep pockets to afford California gas prices…but at least he’s out there taking his chances with his fellow motorists and the day laborers.

I think people who do this are viewed as crackpots by most people. At least Mr. F has a thought-out message (agree with it or not) on his sign. This guy merely has the typical trite blurbs.

Ruby, I wonder if he causes traffic congestion and presents a traffic nuisance? I wonder how many wrecks can be chalked up to him?

I drew no conclusions. The story seemed to similar but different to what we have going on right here in Manassas– a sign, daylabor attention, people wanting work, people not wanting them to work.

I, like Elena, have a hard time demonizing anyone who wants to work. I was raised to think a day’s work was good and not working and supporting your family was ‘triflin’ or worse.

My first thought is shared by Ruby in regaurds to zoning. The second one, is a memory of that furniture store adverstising they were going out of business with similar signs but 2 trucks-driving up and down Sudley (234). Then I thought about the life size image of the guy from F.H Furr that looks like he ready to fall out of the back of the truck waving to everyone. They would all seem to be a distraction and a question of safety. Shoot, I think the car washes with all the sign holding and people chanting are just as much of a distraction.

Has anyone thought about driving to coverstone when the HSM Minutemen are on patrol and asking if they would cut your lawn for $20 an hour?

This is one we do it in Herndon… If you have no problem with the concept of hiring a day laborer, but feel awkward because of the HSM presence this is what you do…

1. If HSM is present, drive up to them first and ask them honestly if they will cut your lawn and trim your shrubs that day for $20 an hour. (you can guess what they will say to that)

2. Be sure to mention something about them being a bunch of freeloaders and drive on over to the real daylaborers. The law only states that you cannon knowingly hire an illegal alien, but hey, you are not a professional contractor, you don’t need to check status.

3. You can trust day laborers in little tasks like mowing your lawn, or trimming some hedges. Common sense would tell you that it’s risky to hire anyone off the street for bigger construction jobs. If you are looking for day laborers to help you out in that, you would be well advised to go to a formal site because they will insure you get a worker who knows how to do the job you need. Most Day Laborers are there to work, not to murder and rape you, but you run a risk with just about any business you do so be sure to be on guard whenever your doing business with any stranger. Being a single man in a crummy house, I don’t have too much of an issue, but everyone has their threshholds of danger and I don’t fault anyone here if they feel unconfortable about hiring a Day laborer.

4. Be sure to drive away with a smile, the camera footage has just shown that you did not discriminate, that you asked for anyone who wanted to work for a reasonable wage, and some individuals refused.

Truthfully, I wish circumstances were such that no one would have need to resort to day labor. Not all Day laborers are Illegal immigrants, the ranks are composed of many types people with many types of circumstances. Some can’t get hired because of a previous criminal history, others don’t have the money to join the big unions (though that is not an excuse in free labor Virginia) in some cases, there is just more skill than there is need. As more and more of the construction market wanes all accross the nation, you will start seeing more workers on the street. Some will give up working and beg, others will look for a county or country that has need, some will risk their own lives by standing on corners and hoping against growing odds that someone will have need of them. Day laborerers are motivated by extream necessity, otherwise they would not be there.

And bringing us back on topic, Would this idiot in the truck not be doing more for his country if he would go out and get a real job? what useful purpose is there in harassing daylaborers, using up precious fuel and causing dangerious traffic problems. At least the 9500 Liberty sign is low maintinance. The only reason that sign is up is because of HSM, if they would disband, I guarentee it will come down. Not likely, and my guess is it’s days are numbered, but it’s razing will be worth as much as Sadaam’s Statue falling in Bagdad. HSM will tout it as a huge sucsess and a victory for the rule of law. but it’s the reality on the ground that counts, and the reality is HSM has been compromised, they just don’t know it yet.

Assuming the police have made sure the trailer is registered and the sign is securely mounted, I say it’s his gas money to burn. I wonder how strong his continued commitment to this cause will be as gas prices continue to escalate, but that’s his problem. I’m sure he’ll ask for donations at some point, though I’d question the sanity of anybody who would assume responsibility for gassing up somebody else’s vehicle at $4.0+/gallon.

Umm has anyone noticed that this guys name is Davi Rodriguez !?!?!??? Isnt that kinda……IRONIC!

Si, ironic indeed.

What is this? The morphying of Mr. F and The Order of the Red Circle to recreate some new being?

and Rod- How can you even begin to compare that the 9500 Liberty street sign is justifiable and Davi Rodriguez isnt??

The 9500 sign is breaking the ZONING law and Davi Rodriguez isnt breaking ANY law and I guess your assumptions of the 9500 liberty street is that of some sort of tit-for-tat thing against HSM, which one can argue is discrimmination on Mr Fernandez’s part.

Talk about a double standard..

Yes, I noticed the irony of his name being Rodriguez.
This is the drive by poster equivalent of nanananana – Mr Rodriguez should grow up and get a life – maybe even try having a relationship with another human being!
I guess he’s a man of independent means if he has time to drive up and down all day, not to mention the gas.
He should take the money he’s spending on his sad endeavour and donate it to a local children’s charity…

Why is everyone in an uproar that he is “spending gas”!!

Its HIS money, HIS time..What makes you think he has no job?
(hmmmm I see stero-typing here..shame shame)

can you say h-y-p-o-c-r-i-t-e!

I think that he is doing a public service, trying to communicate the proper message to the criminals who sit and wait in this country hoping for amnesty. I think that the bleeding hearts who seek to erect day labor centers and fight for the right to loiter and actually doing a disservice to the guys sitting out there. Because those guys ARE going home, and will NEVER be citizens – anyone with any sense who follows the Amnesty debate can see that. That train left the station. It made its biggest push in 2006-2007 and it failed.

It’s just a question of whether you want more poor unfortunates to come pay coyotes and drug traffickers 10-20K of their money to lead them in here and possibly rape them so that they can try to live in flophouses in suburban neighborhoods until their houses are foreclosed or the owners cited for zoning violations, before they eventually go home. I don’t know what kind of charity it supposedly is to encourage these people to tell relatives to come make such a journey instead of encouraging them to pursue legal alternatives and/or to make something out of their home countries. Doesn’t seem very charitable to me. Unless you think you can get these people some type of citizenship or better living conditions – and that isn’t happening. They come here to be wage slaves, they function as wage slaves, then they leave. So it will be for the forseeable future, with significant threat of deportation and family seperation.

Wasn’t there some dude who used to drive all over PW County protesting taxes? Some of you old timers should remember him. He had a sign he hauled around.

Memory refresh please.

Yea Just Cause, silly us to assume he has no job. Maybe he is a courier.

Why do you feel it is hypocritical to assume he has no job? Perhaps it is erroneous but I don’t see why it is hypocritical. Please provide further information.

Some of you here should be driving around with billboards that say :

“Come to America and fight for the rights you are denied in your own country. Come take a chance on your future because it will make me feel good about myself, make me feel I’m doing something to combat world poverty. If it all goes bad you go home and I’ll stay here and find another left-wing cause”.

Cat Scratch Fever, was that the guy who owns/owned Parson’s on Rt. 234? He used to park his truck in front of the McCoart building.

Yes! That’s the person I was thinking of, Censored. He always parked at the McCoart Building. I don’t know what ever became of him. Old soldiers never die…they just fade away.

CSF, was he in some sort of dispute about land and a landfill? And then probably the tax assessment on his land which didn’t get used for the landfill? I don’t remember the details. I just remember seeing the truck parked in front of the McCoart building.

Ricardo Bentley:

I think that he is doing a public service, trying to communicate the proper message to the criminals

But wait Ricardo, if he wanted to communicate to the day laborers wouldn’t he have made the sign in English AND Spanish? We are a multilingual country now Ricardo. Freedom of speech is protected by the Rule of Law.

Because those guys ARE going home, and will NEVER be citizens – anyone with any sense who follows the Amnesty debate can see that. That train left the station. It made its biggest push in 2006-2007 and it failed.

Amnesty 2009 is on the way….

You HSM guys are finished Ricardo…

Amnesty 2007 has significantky lkess support and votes than Amnesty 2006 did … no I would not count on Amnesty 2009. It may be the next President’s Waterloo.

Rick Bentley, some of those guys don’t want to become citizens. They’d be happy to have visas that would allow them to get temporary jobs here. That could be a win/win situation.

The Republicans will fight it like hell after the election – because they know it would mean a generation’s worth of non-competitive elections.

And I think most Democrats will get off the boat as well.

Yard Dog- because You do not practice what you speak….You are not “true” to your belief.

The Republicans will fight it like hell after the election

That’s assuming there are many Republicans left after the elections and that you can count on moderate Republicans to support your agenda.

Everyone and anyone who is anything other than a loyal Democrat will be scared – rightfully so – of an influx of tens of millions of Hispanics who will vote disproportionately Democratic and swing each and every electionmfor the next 50 years. This is one thing that Limbaughs and Hannity’s will pick up and talk to each day that will actually RESONATE with moderates and independents.

The elitists failed in 2007 and they will never succeed with this. Every time Congress picks this up and gets anywhere near a “comprehensive solution” they hear from their constituents, and the message is not lost on them. this is the new third rail of American politics.

I’m going to enjoy being part of the coalition that beats either Presidential candidate over the head on this issue after his election, and attempts to define him by it.

It is easier to destroy than to create. Objectively it is fairly obvious that the Amnesty solution is partially destroyed, and will be fully destroyed during the coming year or two. McCain and Bush’s best attempts to falsely define the vocabulary and problem set failed. The genie won’t go back in the bottle. Note that Bush understands it’s over, and is now actually authorizing law enforcement measures for the future viability of his party politically.

Everyone and anyone who is anything other than a loyal Democrat will be scared – rightfully so – of an influx of tens of millions of Hispanics who will vote disproportionately Democratic and swing each and every electionmfor the next 50 years. This is one thing that Limbaughs and Hannity’s will pick up and talk to each day that will actually RESONATE with moderates and independents.

Limbaugh and Hannity can talk non-stop and it won’t resonate with me at all and I’m an Independent. I’m socially liberal and more fiscally conservative. I’ve never voted for a Republican at the national level although I have voted for some locally. I’m interested in practical solutions not what some windbag radio/tv host has to say. Except Bill Maher because he’s clever.

Smile, your on candid camera

http://www.insidenova.com/isn/news/local/article/prince_william_police_get_license_plate_readers/18504/

Sorry Rick, your Morale breaking propaganda is having no effect. If I were you I’d be more worried about your connections to HSM and Greg, you will soon be getting a nasty suprise and it will come from the inside.

Your batallion has been surrounded and neutralized on the outside and the inside has been compromised, Greg and the other members have no clue who the plant is, i’m just counting down the days untill the trap is sprung.

just wait….:}

Red Dawn,

These type of systems should be outlawed for use by the police. Once, they network this information police can track you wherever you are at any time of the day. Will they use this info in PWC to focus in on hispanics? Possibly. Say goodbye to privacy.

Where we go and what we do is nobody’s business.

But I challenge any of you to exercise your constitutionally protected first amendment rights and take a video camera and start recording the police. Be careful…you might end up in pain. The police are not here to protect you. They are government employees who protect you some of the time as a byproduct of their work. Their main job is to be the muscle of those in power. And the powers that be will protect police from you when you bring complaints against them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ftjgyPPxGg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e7ZLl8cSwY

more:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWnqcQB_L_Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iI9r1ruHI4U

Rick Bentley, 17. July 2008, 13:46
I’m going to enjoy being part of the coalition that beats either Presidential candidate over the head on this issue after his election, and attempts to define him by it.

Both candidates have been desperately sucking up to the Hispanic vote in the last week or so. Whoever wins will realize that it was because he was the lesser of 2 evils, and will pay dearly for his pandering. The short-term gain of being elected will be his downfall if he tries to shove some kind of blanket amnesty down our throats.

Rod, I hope you are a very patient person.

Mackie, I gather you are no fan of Chief Deane, then, since his ” main job is to be the muscle of those in power.” How refreshing.

Anyway, so that I am not accused of being a “hate bunny,” I will address the thread topic. Mr. Rodriguez, unlike Mr. Fernandez, is not breaking any laws. He is free to speak his mind. The gas he burns is his problem. And how shocking that he is videotaping! Oh, wait, isn’t that what ? Except that Eric lacks the cojones to film people openly, preferring to skulk behind bushes.

Mr. Fernandez is alienating the community while he willfully breaks zoning laws. The public officials who allowed this preferential treatment to go on for so long will pay dearly for their inaction, because the voters will remember.

JC, nice dodge. How do you know what I believe? I ask a question and get a smart ass answer. Why do you consider assuming he has no job to be hypocritical? If he has time to drive around 4 hours a day, I would assume he was rich and didn’t need to work.

Why are you so combative?

Mr. Fernandez is alienating the community while he willfully breaks zoning laws. The public officials who allowed this preferential treatment to go on for so long will pay dearly for their inaction, because the voters will remember.

Would you prefer that the voters cough up millions of bucks to the DOJ or that the City pay added attorneys’ fees? It seemed that the voters were aware of the sign this spring, aware of HSM’s furor over the sign, aware that HSM had a favored slate of candidates, and then the voters, those pesky individuals,voted against those candidates. The City residents have spoken. They prefer to let the legal system take care of the issue and they prefer to move on to building a more positive image of the City.

Remember, you can always place your faith in the police. They always do the right thing.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=LaX0dSRl9zw&fmt=6

ok this is pretty perplexing: a blog owner (elena) complains that a guy is driving around all day (during the work day) when she herself doesnt work? Dont get it. Unless you call coddling illegal aliens work, you shouldnt talk.

maybe the guy took the day off, maybe the guy is just plain lazy or…maybe the guy got canned from a job that an illegal alien took for less money. the possibilities are endless however I dont think for a second that a wannabe activist who doesnt have a job, cries at bocs meetings, supports the illegal alien left and is the poorest example of an honest person I can mention deserves to comment about this story.

Censored, do you even live in the City to know what the hell you are even talking about? The three candidates for City Council, Wolfe, Way and Smith, ran unopposed for three vacancies in May. “The City residents have spoken,” indeed.

Censored, who was on the HSM “favored slate of candidates” for City Council? They must have been written in invisible ink on the ballot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QZtWmivIYw&feature=related

Jobless Rate for Youths Is Increasing
Competition Fierce For Low-Skill Summer Positions
By Kari Lydersen
The Washington Post, July 15, 2008; A02
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/14/AR2008071402406.html

So tell us again that illegals are only doing the jobs Americans wont do.

Emma,

You seem to have a big problem with Eric. Maybe I’m wrong, but I have seen exactly one YouTube video shot from behind some bushes. The rest of the endless amounts of footage contains interviews (some with Greg), HSM meetings, BOS meetings, etc. How does one clip amongst the others show his preference for the hidden camera? Is there something on that clip that bothers you?

and now…to continue the thread…

As for the Liberty Wall, I agree with Censored bybvbl that Mr. Fernandez seems to have put more thought into things. Oooo, he put the words of one of the most respected and influential non-violence/civil rights leaders of all time (Gandhi) on his sign…how dare he?! In any case, these guys are both exercising their rights…even if I don’t agree with Mr. Rodriguez.

Emma:

Mackie, I gather you are no fan of Chief Deane, then, since his ” main job is to be the muscle of those in power.” How refreshing.

Actually, I haven’t heard any bad things about Chief Deane except from the lunatic HSM types who want to draw and quarter him for resisting the resolution. He seems like an ok Chief to me.

Yeah, Emma, I do know what the hell I’m talking about. Dave Core and Maureen Wood ran for the Republican nomination and lost. Since the Dems fielded no candidates, the Republicans’ choice gives a hint that Manassas City residents weren’t enamored of HSM’s candidates. The majority of residents apparently prefer to move on with their lives and concentrate on improving their community, their schools, their business appeal.

Ok, Mackie, so who are the bad cops, then? The ones who caught you breaking the law?

A redneck drivin’ his pick-up truck up and down Main Street all day long. There’s a rumor on the internet that the sign used to say, “GIT ‘R DUNN!” before he painted the anti-immigrant language over it.

Mackie,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcROvivYkw4

LOL, you better stay awake…just kidding

“(elena….) when she herself doesnt work?”

Raising a family with small children and taking care of a home is quite a bit of work, in case you never tried it Elvis. Fortunately, it’s the kind of work that allows some flexibility. Unfortunately, in order to work OUTSIDE the home, moms need a job with even MORE flexibility. When you come back as a woman with children in your next life, please report in…..let us know how you manage.

Mackie, don’t worry, unless your car is stolen, that license plate reader technology won’t track your whereabouts, unless you’re wanted or part of an investigation. No police department is going to run 1500 registrations per minute to find out who owns the car. The machine is used to compare the plates that are read with the stolen vehicles entered into the National system, thereby enhancing the chance of vehicle recovery.

By the way Mackie, you’re painting an excess of 1/2 million police officers across the nation in strictly negative terms because of some bad apples. Should we use the same logic to broad brush illegal immigrants for the bad apples in their group? I can give you a list of illegal alien bad apple acts in Prince William to make my point, including murderers, rapist, child molesters, burglers etc.

My point is, don’t paint others with a broad brush if you don’t want it done to a group you support.

I think the only candidate HSM might have objected to would have been Smith, Censored. Way and Wolfe were both described by Greg as “a fine choice.” Check it out.

I’m guessing you don’t live in the City, do you, Censored? Because people here hate that sign and it is alienating many folks and eroding any shred of sympathy they may have for Mr. F’s cause. Easy for you to stand on your high horse and tell us what we have to put up with, so you can feel like some self-righteous hero of the downtrodden.

DiversityGal, Mr. Fernandez has left an unsafe structure standing and is violating zoning restrictions that us non-Hispanics without pricey activist lawyers would never get away with. That gets beyond free speech, and opens the door for a lot other “hate” groups to erect similar structures to make their point. Is that what you want?

Elvis,

Elena didn’t post this thread, Moon-howler did. Fact checking

Lucky, if Mackie’s car is stolen, he’ll be crying to those police he hates so much, trust me. Laws are for everyone else, not for him.

Emma and Lucky,

I am reading his message from a different perspective and that would be of Big Brother?
Does this not concern anyone in the least? Who is in control? WE the people?

“He that would live in peace and at ease, must not speak all he knows nor judge all he sees.”

Benjamin Franklin

Just a thought

hate bunny jpeg…

http://www.monkeytypist.com/images/content/bunny001.jpg

This man is exercising his free speech rights (the right to hold up a political sign), without violating zoning laws and other community ordinances. Though you may not like the content, he has the right as long as he is NOT BREAKING ANY EXISTING LAW.

Red Dawn, 17. July 2008, 19:34

‘He that would live in peace and at ease, must not speak all he knows nor judge all he sees.”

Benjamin Franklin

Ben’s my favorite Founder. I couldn’t pick a favorite quote (there are too many) but the one you posted is a great one.

Mackie’s posts in this thread and others are consistently critical of law enforcement officers. Are there bad apples, absolutely. But this blog has also consistently decried the use of a broad brush against anyone. So why is it acceptable for a multiple contributor to this blog to use a broad brush against law enforcement? I was merely telling him that such an action can go both ways, that he cannot have it both ways.

There are multiple instances in this community of illegal alien criminal acts to include multiple homicides, rapes, child molesters etc, yet, we all scream when we use those to paint the entire illegal alien community. So, what’s good for the goose is good for the gander…
Don’t use a tactic you abhor used against a group you support. That’s all I am saying.

sorry..
“don’t use a tactic you abhor against another group”.

Emma,

I live in the City of Manassas. I have lived here since I was 3 years old (moved from Manassas in Prince William County). I lived in the same house until college, and moved back to the city when I was done. I purchased my own home in the City of Manassas and am a proud resident.

As a City of Manassas citizen, I support Mr. Fernandez’ s efforts. This Caucasian girl does not feel alienated in the slightest, and I know lots of other City of Manassas residents who feel like I do. Please do not think I am trying to speak for every person who opposes the resolution; I am just letting you know that I am one of many in the City of Manassas residents who understands what Mr. Fernandez is doing.

Of course I don’t want hate groups to put up signs. According to a 2001 SLPC report, however, they already have in our state…

“FAIR recently helped run a billboard campaign in Virginia blaming immigrants for traffic and sprawl.”

Red Dawn,

Lol!

Do NOT click on this video!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PWJFVpzxKw&feature=related

Red Dawn

Regarding the economic divide that is fast approaching…..this one’s for you. Dig the boots and all that rawhide. Yummy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUSDS9pkA2Y

Red Dawn – not a ‘yummy’, bit more serious but kind of fits the whole scene – WE ARE ONE BUT WE ARE NOT THE SAME…..

That’s it for me. Next I would have to jump to something more fun – “Johnny” anyone??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFWPeVfWB9o

Lucky Duck,
Re: your response @ 19:59

Roger, 10-4, gotcha on the check-check there about broad brushing. How about the idea that we are moving toward the one artist, that will paint the brush? I ask, are we not already the judge, jury and executioner in the media, blogs, etc…?

Why have a court of law if the damage is greater BEFORE that day in court ( that can be postponed, etc..due process…innocent until proven guilty…..or just like the damn sign, IT will have it’s day in court-as it should..BUT just STOP and look at this example and what is going on)

Okay another song

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYFMDhW1o68

I see my reflection in the window
It looks different, so different than what you see
Projecting judgement on the world
This house is clean babe
This house is clean

Am I who I think I am?
Am I who I think I am?
Am I who I think I am?
I look out my window and see it’s gone wrong
Court is in session and I slam my gavel down!

I’m judge and I’m jury and I’m executioner too
I’m judge and I’m jury and I’m executioner too

Projector, Protector, Rejector, Infector
Projector, Rejector, Infector
Injector, Defector, Rejector

I see my reflection in the window
This window clean inside, dirty on the out
I’m looking different then me
This house is clean babe!
This house is clean

Am I who I think I am?
Am I who I think I am?
Oh, Am I who I think I am?
I look out my window and see it’s gone wrong
My court is in session and now I slam my gavel down!

I’m judge and I’m jury and I’m executioner too
I’m judge and I’m jury and I’m executioner too

Projector, Protector, Rejector, Infector
Projector, Rejector, Infector
Injector, Defector, Rejector, Detector

I’m judge and I’m jury and I’m executioner too
I’m judge and I’m jury and I’m executioner too

Projector, Protector, Rejector, Infector
Projector, Rejector, Infector
Injector, Defector, Rejector

I drink from the cup of denial
I’m judging the world from my throne
I drink from the cup of denial
I’m judging the world from my throne, Yeah

DiversityGal, 17. July 2008, 20:02
Of course I don’t want hate groups to put up signs.

So why do you support Mr. Fernandez’s right to put up a sign on the unstable remnants of a building he was ordered to demolish? Why do you think he should be freer to express himself than “hate groups”? At least the guy with the truck isn’t breaking any laws. Mr. Fernandez doesn’t even live in the City, and last I checked, the Resolution he is protesting was passed in PWC.

I’m not surprised that you support him, nor that your friends would be of like mind. So what is your point?

Mackie,

I still can’t beat your post of Animal Farm, as I still think that was clever as ever and had the best giggle, still enjoying it……

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8igSA8HdR_Q

LOL Cheers!

Juturna,

That’s right girlfriend,that’s all we may have, to live on a prayer.. faith and optimism.
Never give up

es_la_ley,

Benjamin rocks… ohhhhh, what we can LEARN from our elders

Emma, which of those candidates stressed immigration and which stressed economic stability,schools, and arts? Are you telling me that Core and Wood weren’t the prefered candidates of HSM from the five (?) running?

No, I’m not a Manassas City resident, but I shop and eat there frequently. I pass the sign several times a week and it doesn’t bother me. Mr. F could have torn down the remaining wall of the house, put two posts in the ground, and handpainted a sign on a sheet and attached that to the post. Then we’d be discussing freedom of speech. There’s no guarantee that that won’t be the issue in the end afterall.

You can rail about it and the Council all you like, but you never answer whether you’re willing to squander tax dollars on another, doomed approach. What’s your solution other than complaining?

Other than people on the blogs, I’ve heard only three people (one from from Clifton, two locals) express shock or disgust with the sign. I’ve found that most people ignore it…even those at the farmer’s market. My sister was shocked by the size of it having only seen pictures in the newspaper though.

“So why do you support Mr. Fernandez’s right to put up a sign on the unstable remnants of a building he was ordered to demolish? ”

The remnants of the building have not been proven to be unstable or stable.

Lucky Duck,

You make a good point.

Mackie, I think most of us here support law enforcement officers, in particular, the Prince William County Police. Because their professionalism has come under repeated question by the ‘Resolution crowd,’ not for any specific actions but because it was politically expedient, it is more important than ever to give them our loyalty.

I think it is fair to ask you to not broad-brush all law enforcement. If you have particular issues with specific examples, by all means, go for it. Isn’t it enough that Michael takes cheap shots?

You’re not a resident, you don’t pay taxes to the City, so of course you don’t mind it. Many City residents DO mind, especially those who have had their own zoning permit applications denied for one reason or other. Believe me, people are not ignoring the wall at the Farmers Market. I go every Saturday, so I know. What do you expect them to do about it when they are there, firebomb it? No, unlike Mr. F., they put up with it and get on with their day, because THEY respect the law. Since the matter is going to court in October, all the protest in the world isn’t going to make any difference right now.

So you shop and eat in Old Town occasionally, so what? Why don’t you offer your front yard to Mr. Fernandez if he loses in court?

Bet I know the answer to that one: “But Emma, I live in an HOA. They wouldn’t allow it.”

What “doomed approach” are you talking about, anyway? The existing one in PWC that you don’t happen to like? Or ANYTHING that tries to limit or reduce the impact of illegal immigration in any way?

Thank you Moon-Howler.

For you, Mackie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMSbJGxuj2o

And for “The Office” fans: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbdGN9jy7Qk

I love it, and he isn’t even stating anything as generally offensive as Fernandez, and yet this got all of you so fired up. I’d have to say this is a case of ‘you can dish it out, but you can’t take it’. LOL, and very entertaining. Notice how we have treated Fernandez with civility, and yet this guy’s simple sign has already been vandalized when it came to a stop. Perhaps he should travel to Old Town and do a bit of driving. Now wouldn’t THAT make for headlines!

I’m sure it would be cool as long as he stayed out of the Haymarket HOA neighborhoods.

Mr. F should give up his bus seat and move to the back of the bus, that’s the law. Everybody must follow the law, without the law we would have anarchy.

What “doomed approach” are you talking about, anyway? The existing one in PWC that you don’t happen to like? Or ANYTHING that tries to limit or reduce the impact of illegal immigration in any way?

I’m talking about the desire to push your elected officials to do anything expedient, to disallow “preferential treatment” (gotta love that new talking point). Just what exactly do you expect the Council to do that it isn’t doing? You want to blame them for following the law. I thought the law is the law is the law.

Do you even live anywhere near the sign? I wonder if you happen to see it any more often than I do.

You really make an a$$ of yourself if you assume I live in an HOA. Mr. F’s sign isn’t in your yard. There’s no reason for it to be in mine. It’s in his and we’ll see how this interesting bit of history ends this fall – maybe.

Just checking in for the first time since the early afternoon!

Mackie,
Lucky Duck makes a very valid point, there are bad apples in every group, lets not broad brush our police department. Chief Dean showed real courage when he told the Board their “resolution would have unintended consequences”. He challenged the status quo during a time in our county when that took real courage. He was a true professional, always having the best interest of all residents in this county. He is a wonderful example for his police department and I am sure he is well recognized for his leadership during these trying times. My ride along with the police officer was a great experience, and if he is an example of our police force, we are in good hands.

SA,
did you forget the molotav (sp?) cocktail that destroyed the first sign by Mr. Fernandez?

Hey, where’s all those free speech supporters that were here when the subject was Fernadez’s sign? I distinctly remember many people here saying that although they may not agree with the sign they still support Fernandez’s right to exercise his free speech. So that same right is afforded regardless of the message. Hypocrisy!

Elena,

The sign was not destroyed by any molotov cocktail. A bottle was found near the sign but no damage was done. Face it, if an identical billboard stating anti Hispanic opinions was in Manassas you know damn well it would have been destroyed by now. Give me a break!

So do you have a problem with Mr. Rodriguez’s sign, Censored?

Bring it On, great to see you. It’s been awhile. You never answered my question about this:

Bring it On, 8. July 2008, 21:47
Quick Note: Spent time in West Virginia over the Fourth of July holiday weekend, and they think Prince William County is backwards. So, you know it’s bad.

Still wondering what you meant. Surely you didn’t mean to stereotype the ENTIRE population now, did you?

SA, don’t forget that the first sign was ripped and several popsicle signs with naughty messages were left on site.

Emma, personally I don’t have a problem with it. I find it an interesting local lesson in history, hate, tolerance, code enforcement, film-making, public discussion, David vs. Goliath, action and reaction, and a host more. The California driver could take a lesson in creativity from Mr. F.

And there was a lot of talk that Mr. Fernandez might have defaced his own property because he wasn’t getting enough attention at the time. I really miss the “no trespassing” signs that he had up there not too long ago. Delicious irony for a guy who doesn’t believe in borders.

If this guy took lessons from Fernandez, then he would have to put racist statements all over his rather benign sign to match the racist statements by Fernandez. So that is what you are suggesting?

Oh wait a minute, I just checked my deck of race cards, and I just realized there isn’t a card for white Europeans. My mistake, I guess Fernandez isn’t promoting racism after all.

Yup. I’ll agree about the “no trespassing” sign even though it was more than likely placed to prevent vandalism and for insurance purposes. The message should have remained similar to the first message in my opinion…he had a lot of sympathy for that message. I think he’s gotten some bad advice on this last message.

SA, haven’t you heard the mantra of La Raza: “For the race, everything, for everyone else, nothing”?

You and I are “everyone else.” Otherwise, they are quite tolerant.

Emma,

Well said! Lets put that on a sign, or maybe a few hundred bumper stickers. Freedom of speech you know!

Speaking of bumper stickers…I’ve yet to see a single one anywhere for HSM. Where are they?

Rick Bentley, I realize your remark was a long time ago, but I am curious where on earth you came up with the notion that the average border crosser is paying 10-20K a piece to coyotes. Even just a moment’s reflection would make that obviously not true.

This is from a 2006 article:

“Border experts say the price for Mexican migrants has quadrupled from $300 to more than $1,200 since 1994, when the U.S. last tightened the rules. One migrant told The Associated Press he recently paid $1,300 to get across.”

And from an Arizona Republic article a couple of days ago all about coyotes:

“The cartels’ shifting tactics show how the smuggling of people increasingly has become an organized business. Typically, a Mexican immigrant pays a smuggler $1,500 to $2,000 in fees, paying a portion up front to reach and then cross the Mexico border. Then a coyote takes the immigrant to a drophouse in Phoenix and holds him or her hostage until the final balance is wired from a friend or relative in the U.S.”

I found lots of other articles with similar amounts. Why state something so ludicrous? Even given (ahem) inflation in such matters, the average sum would not be anything remotely close to what you write. It would not make any economic sense. I bring this up only because it is similar to all the other ridiculous numbers one sees on this issue. Why the penchant for exaggeration on your side of the political fence?

Emma,

My point was that not all people in the City of Manassas think the sign is bad. I am a perfect example of that.

Again, if Mr. Rodriguez wants to go around town with that sign, he can do that. I don’t agree with his message, but it’s his right.

Zoning restrictions aside, lots of people have been “getting away” with putting up billboards for some controversial stuff for some time now:

USA Today cites a 2005 Coalition for a Secure Driver’s License billboard in Raleigh, NC that depicts a man in Arab clothing holding a grenade and a license, calling him a terrorist.

Rediff.com cites a series of billboards put up by Craig Nelson protesting ANY immigration (not just illegal) in Queens and Brooklyn, NY.

Pacific News cited a 1998 billboard on the CA/AZ border calling California “The Illegal Immigration State “(put up by the Californa Coalition for Immigration Reform).

I wonder what happen if Mr. Fernandez had rock-solid legal permission to have that sign up in his yard…does that mean that everyone would be OK with the sign? Am I supposed to believe that no one would be complaining about it publicly? I hear what some people keep bringing up about the zoning and the law. It’s hard for me to believe that it’s just about legality for those who claim this, when the first complaints we heard from some community members were about the CONTENT of the Liberty Wall. I can’t and won’t just forget that. I know I keep using this metaphor, but the legality issue is a convenient mask for prejudice. Maybe not for all, but for some…

Emma,
Just so you don’t sound misinformed, I thought you may want to know the actual translation of La Raza :

What does the term “La Raza” mean?
“The term “La Raza” has its origins in early 20th century Latin American literature and translates into English most closely as “the people,” or, according to some scholars, “the Hispanic people of the New World.” The term was coined by Mexican scholar José Vasconcelos to reflect the fact that the people of Latin America are a mixture of many of the world’s races, cultures, and religions. Some people have mistranslated “La Raza” to mean “The Race,” implying that it is a term meant to exclude others. In fact, the full term coined by Vasconcelos, “La Raza Cósmica,” meaning the “cosmic people,” was developed to reflect not purity but the mixture inherent in the Hispanic people. This is an inclusive concept, meaning that Hispanics share with all other peoples of the world a common heritage and destiny.”

I am not so sure La Raza has a mantra. Would someone please verify this statement from a mainstream publication. I have always found La Raza to be an advocacy organization for American Latinos, much like the NAACP. Sure, I have heard all the vilification crap and that is what it is.

SA, the thread was posted to stimulate conversation. I would say that both men were entitled to their comments as a free speech issue. While I didn’t take a position when I posted it, that would be my take. Mr. F isn’t being challenged on content, but rather on medium of presentation…aka..zoning violation. That doesn’t mean I like either sign.

Emma, you sure have made a bunch of assumptions about people here. Censored is about as far away from being in a HOA as one can get.

Emma:

Cute video. Here’s one for you. It’s not so cute.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsPZsPSa_fw

Scary video…I couldn’t watch it all. I might have nightmares!

Mackie,
Not sure I get it? New World Order has some roots in anti-semetism. I don’t know what was more frightening, the video or the comments!

Emma,

You may refuse to believe it, but I fully support law and order. However, I do not support the abuse of power in any way. We the People can play a valuable role in preventing the abuse of power by staying well informed and sending letters to our elected officials and involving the media.

But staying well informed is up to us. And using our participatory system of government requires that we get involved and sacrifice time and energy together to improve our society. Looking the other way and slavishly and mindlessly devoting ourselves to never questioning the law means we will continue to have destructive resolutions ripping our county in two.

While I would always advocate a non-violent approach to social change, the video I posted above is an example of the emotional frustration many Americans are feeling at where our country is going. Why is it that even though most Americans want us out of Iraq, we continue to stay? Why is it that even thought most Americans worry about securing the border from terrorists, it still remains unsecured? Why aren’t our leaders listening to us and responding? Ultimately, we have to expend the energy necessary to improve our society. Our form of government is a high maintenance form of government. Unless each one of us gets involved and is willing to speak their mind, our society will slowly decay.

Elena,

Not sure I get it? New World Order has some roots in anti-semetism. I don’t know what was more frightening, the video or the comments!

I was having a little fun with Emma. Maybe she’ll run the wine cellar now to break out a fresh bottle to calm her nerves. Raise a glass for me Emma!

Elena,

New World Order has some roots in anti-semetism.

I apologize if you were offended. I certainly didn’t mean it that way. The New World Order is a conspiracy theory I don’t give any credence to just as I don’t give any credence to the 9-11 truth movement.

The first George Bush clumsily coined this term when he was president and the conspiracy theorists took that ball and ran with it.

I think what they’re doing is watching disturbing developments in the world and trying to impose a vision where there’s a secret society guiding everything.

Whereas I tend to see these disturbing developments as manifestations of a simple concept that has always been true: Power corrupts.

There is no secret society guiding everything. Corrupt leaders are the problem. They will abuse our rights if we let them. It is the nature of power that it grows at the expense of personal liberty. If you want proof, look no farther than Corey Stewart. He trampled over our county in an effort to catapult himself into the limelight as a warrior in the illegal immigration issue. Now our county will be synonymous with racism for at least a decade, maybe longer. Every other house is foreclosed. Neighbors eye each other with suspicion. All for the sake of one man’s political ambition.

Elena,

One final thought. You are an administrator of a blog that among other things, advocates helping illegal immigrants. Remember that half of the 9-11 terrorists had expired visas and almost all had lied on their visa applications making them illegal immigrants. Someday, after the next large scale terrorist attack on American soil, Greg and his fellow travelers will be the first to accuse you of aiding and abetting an insecure status quo that helps terrorists. They will savagely and gleefully call you an accessory to terrorism. Of course, the Gregs and the Duecasters are already saying these things about you. The difference is that, after the next large scale terrorist attack, some authorities might start seriously listening to them.

Remember that the black market in false documents created by illegal immigration allowed some of the 9-11 terrorists to acquire drivers licenses from DMVs in Northern Virginia. And we are situated very close geographically to the number one terrorist target in the world. I’m not trying to be flippant here. I’m trying to say you might consider being circumspect in what you say here or it may come back to haunt you.

House Resolution 1955, the Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorist Act, specifically targets the use of the internet to spread ideas. In other words, thought crimes.

It passed the House of Representatives 404 to 6.

Now it sits in the senate as S1959. And when it passes the Senate, the only way to stop it would be with George Bush’s veto…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wJsovPRTEM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjALf12PAWc

Leila, I guess it depends what country you are coming from. Here is an article that says going rate from Ecuador is 8-10K – http://articles.latimes.com/2007/feb/04/world/fg-coyote4

Rick,

I am sure it depends, yes. But your post seemed to be commenting on what is commonplace, and you said 10-20K. If you are talking about the country at large, a majority of people crossing the *southern border* are coming from Mexico. If you are talking about the illegal immigrants in this area, the bulk crossing that way are from El Salvador and other Central American countries.

My problem with what you wrote is that it gave a very strange and false impression about the typical resources of the typical person who makes this land crossing.

There were several other points in your post to contest, but this one was just the oddest.

Ecuador is in South America…most immigrants paying a coyote to get here are from Mexico and Central America. Longer trip, higher rate. The going rate is now about $5K, up from $2K about 8-10 years ago and this is because the crossings are more difficult so it takes more time for them to get here. Leila, agree Rick’s post threw out a totally unbacked up number.

Twinad, 5K from Mexico? That even surprises me, given the articles I found. But no doubt it has gone up a lot.

About the 9500 Liberty sign. Something confuses me about it. Am I mistaken, or is the zoning violation basically because of some bolster he put on it? Ie. wasn’t there a way he could have erected the same thing as a banner or whatever expressing the same sentiments and not been in violation? Or couldn’t the same sentiments be painted on the side of an existing house?

Wouldn’t most people who are objecting to this sign object to it even if it were not a zoning violation? The zoning violation business is a way to attack it since obviously it is protected political speech. For the people who keep coming back to it being a zoning violation, would you be ok with it if the structure were changed but the text remained?

Leila,

I should have clarified…sorry. $5K from Central America, up from $2K several years ago. I don’t know how much from Mexico. These fee’s getting paid to criminal coyotes are one of the reasons comprehensive immigration reform is so desperately needed. For the same amount of money paid to coyotes, immigrants could get a flight here, get checked in through customs and put about $4K towards an entrance fee to the US. If we are admitting let’s say 500,000 immigrants a year at $4K each, that revenue stream alone would be $2,000,000,000.

Its important to realize that this money immigrants pay goes right into financing MS-13. Just like the unreality of prohibition bankrolled the rise of the mafia, so does our unrealistic immigration system bankroll the rise of MS-13 and directly contribute to its lethality by giving it the financial means to expand it’s empire and weaponry.

In this respect organizations like HSM are the greatest ally that MS-13 could ever hope to have. HSM people make sure that working class people can only come here illegally because they refuse to give a pathway to citizenship and they refuse to make visas easy to obtain. It’s a great niche market for MS-13, provide to them courtesy of HSM.

HSM is vainly struggling against the unconquerable law of supply and demand. They are trying to create an artificial economy, no less than the Bolsheviks tried to do in the Soviet Union, and they are meeting equally disastrous consequences. The free market regulates immigration as it should. Demand for labor changes every day. It goes up. It goes down. What we need to do is make it much easier for immigrant labor to come here. When it is easy to immigrate here for work, no one will be crossing the border illegally and so MS-13 will be financially crippled. Isn’t the crippling of MS-13 what HSM claims to have as one of its main objectives?

Leila, I think the sign as zoning violation is the latest mantra for those who lost at having it forcibly taken down last fall. Had it been on a banner it would have stood a better test as free speech and avoided the building code violations. However, I don’t know whether Manassas City had any prohibitions against banners in the residential part of the historic district (and there are the other zoning issues cited as well as the sign). Mr. F could have gotten an engineering report that clarified the sign’s ability to meet the building code (I think wind resistance may have been an issue that needed to be addressed) but he chose not to do so. I think he’s going for freedom of speech. Even if the City wins in court, the issue may not be immediately resolved. There may be an appeal process and then, additionally, the City has to consider its image if it has to send its employees in to forcibly remove the sign. Not an easy decision in my opinion. And one made harder by the “law is the law is the law” crowd which is ticked at the City for following the law.

Thanks for clarifying the video for me Mackie and sharing your thoughts on my impending imprisonment! O.K. guys, I quite this blog now! Seriously, I do fear the next terrorist attack for multiple reasons, now you have added another one to the list.

Also, I concur with you assessment of free labor market and MS-13’s misuse of our immigration policy. We are inadvertantly feeding the snake.

Also, the Loudoun County Gang Response Intervention Team (GRIT) recommends that the public not use specific gang names too much, as it gives gangs a reputation that increases their membership. With the photos of tags and constant mentioning of one particular gang on the other site, I worry that this is an additional way people may be helping to increase gang activity.

Elana @ 23:50

Yes “La Raza” share a with all other peoples of the world a common heritage and destiny.”. So do Celts, Africans, Asians, and Arabs. How far back do you want to go? DNA evidence indicates we all share a common heritage and destiny, the heritage is to a small group of people who came out of Africa, up to Kazakstan, and toward India, several times between ice ages. So What?

La Raza is today used to mean “the race” which “includes only certain people” and EXCLUDES all others who are not “the race”, and that only this group has some supreme destiny. Though its root word meaning may have meant “we are the cosmic people” as being something special, what about the rest of the “cosmic” people? I guess they are not “special” according to this group and your philosophy. This is just another hate group trying to claim it is better than everyone else in North and South America, and they should all “band together” as an ethnic group and politically fight for special laws and privileges just for themselves, and vote only their own “La Raza” people and race into public office just because they all belong to “La Raza”, THE cosmic people.

I smell supremacy and a hate group. It stinks pretty loud.

Twinade, Immigrants can already take a flight here for less than the price to come here illegally. It costs them the filing fees for a legal work permit, educational visa, or green card application, and air fare.

We are talking about the cost of “illegal” immigration, which only happens when people choose to be “illegal” and break our law, coming here ahead of others and without permission or invitation, they simply take what they want, and cause hundreds of widely documented problems (some with lethal consequrences) for the “legal” residents here.

Though most of you have mis-guided sympathy for them, I do not. They simply need to “wait” their turn.

To allow this “illegal” behavior to continue and not be punished is to invite even more “lawlessness” and even less desireable future consequences.

Michael,

You might want to read the following article, called “The Truth About NCLR: NCLR Answers Critics.” It quite nicely refutes your claims, and provides references. Please pay close attention to the sections in the point-by-point analysis about the translation of their name, and about solely Hispanic-serving programs. Where on this site did they say they are better than everyone else?

http://www.nclr.org/content/viewpoints/detail/42500/

I suppose that is my “cheap shot” moonhowler, as are all other comments I use to counter most of you who post here from promoting your own form of ethnic hatred, unless of course you mean my cheap shot was challenging Mackie to provide some “facts” behind his trite 2 word statement twisting the words I said out of context (his usual approach when he can’t think of anything better or more truthful) that “No” we don’t need to protect our borbers and control our growth of “illegal” people, and Yes, we need to give everyone here amnesty and immediate documentation, as an “opinion’ that has no value unless it has some facts behind it, explaining why he believes this is a valid solution to a huge problem. I would hardly call “two” words a factual debate, he was “copping” out.

I have stated nothing in my posts that was not fully supported by the Constitution, the current law, and equality in individual rights for all. Most of you don’t like my posts because the constitution, the law and equality concepts don’t support your ethnic group and personal agenda’s for supremacy and powe through discrimmination.

Diversity Gal,

I had this same debate with Elena about the League of Women voters. Both of you think these groups don’t support hatred of others who don’t belong to their group, but they do. They have a significant power heirarchy, of people in their organizational structure who are ONLY members of these racial, gender, religious and ethnic groups, and think only in terms of suppporting just that “groups attributes and supremacy over other” and fight legal battles for that group’s political and economic advantage over others. You think they are supporting only “minority” injustices, but they are not. They are supporting minority hatred and minority supremacy. They are existing simply to create legislation that “favors” their ethnic group, and their “gender” or religion EXCLUSIVELY of others who exist in groups they point out as “the others”. Their rhetoric is aimed at targeting other groups that are not part of their own group (That’s why they have a “Group” aligned along racial, gender, religious, ethnic group lines of political power). They are no different in goals and hidden agenda’s than the NAACP, the ADL, and the KKK. All of these groups advocate for supremacy of their own group, and ethnic supremacy along ethnic lines of political power. They all support concepts that want law-makers to make laws just for them so they can racially balance their numbers to grow larger than all other groups, creating “advantage” using “quotas” in disproportion to their political voices, or in terms of democracy more votes and influence than they can get with ” one vote per person”. They all try to buy votes in the House and Senate, to align policy and political issues along lines of political power that benefit only their race, gender, religious or ethnic group.

This is simply supremacy politics and hate activity. I don’t need to visit their web site to read what they say about themselves, it is a public lie, a deceit, to hide behind, while their “leaders” think of creative ways to promote their own race in EXCLUSION of others and with hatred for others that don’t belong to their “group”.

I am listening to you and others who feel this way. I regularly visit sites whose messages I disagree with, and I often learn something. It’s not worth it to you to do the same? I hope that others won’t feel the need to NOT to learn, and may want to visit the NCLR site.

NCLR has many community service, health, and education initiatives. They work with schools for early childhood and secondary education programs. They work with AmericaCorps to increase volunteer service to communities. IN 2006, their homeownership program served 20% Caucasian and 12% African-American clients.

ADL has many educational services. They offer curriculum connections to schools. and anti-bullying/cyber bullying resources through their partnerships with the US Health Resources and Services Administration. They have programs that emphasize non-violent ways to handle conflict. In addition, they provide schools with information about lesson plans and materials that explore gender equality and raising awareness about people with disabilities.

NAACP conducts community health screenings and HIV/AIDS testing. They have a Back-to-School/Stay-in-School initiative.

What is the KKK doing to encourage community service, help community members in need, or work with public schools for positive change? All I could find on their site was this…their version of community activism was to find like-minded candidates to run for public office, and nothing more. Their version of education programming was an “easy to understand workbook” for teachers, currently in development, to “re-educate” them about “the daily terror many white kids feel when being surrounded by angry and violent Negroes.” OMGIH!!! I shudder at the thought of their re-educating teachers…the stuff of my nightmares…

Because of the afore-mentioned info, I CAN”T conclude that NCLR, ADL, and NAACP are in the same category as the KKK.

I’m sure most of you think I support the “crap” videos that Mackie posts from hate groups. I do not. In fact I agree with many things Mackie says that come from constitutional principals, I simply challenge him when he indicates how much he hates authority and the police and “respects” the anti-American militant hate groups coming from the other side of the world (I’m sure a result of his religious bias clouding his personal judgement) . I don’t like Gregs religious arguments for the same reason, and I challenge him when he does it.

I support Elena, when she focuses on world povery and sympathy for the poor, but not when she indicates that sympathy should include support for “illegal” and “unlawful” behavior, because she supports some “ethnic group”. That is when she steps over the line and I call her or any of you on this ethnic group political alignment crap.

Look I was a soldier, a good one fighting for your rights (with my life) for the freedom for you to have these debates and support your “individual” freedom, I saw it all, all the ethnic hatred, tthe ethnic group alignment, the religious group alignment, the root cause for war, the factions that rose in political parties along racial, gender, religious, and ethnic group lines of power and how that destroyed democracy and legal justice in those countries that are now at war.

I refuse to let these people, (including those of you who sympathize with them), destroy our country, our democracy and our concepts of individual rights” and power of the people to govern themselves, making just laws for all and enforcing them equally for all regardless of their race, gender, religion or ethnic group. I refuse to ignore or support lawlessness in any form and refuse to let people support “lawlessness and “illegal” behavior. These ideologies are the enemy of Democracy and the lovers of anarchy and autocracy.

If you don’t like my belief about this then fine. I have fought on foreign soil to defend my nation’s concept of “liberty, freedom and justice for all” (the key word being for ALL), and I will do it here on my own soil if necessary and called on by the “government” to do so. I will not do it in support of ANY racial, gender, religious or ethnic HATE GROUP, or political group aligned to promote racial, gender, religious or ethnic group privilege or hatred, that is what I saw is wrong with the rest of the world’s politics and people. I see those same people here, which I why I am challenging you, whether you like it or not.

I will explore the site, Diversity GAL, but I will find the same thing I found on the other sites people proudly tell me to explore in defense of their ethnic group ideology, that you are blind to because you support and likely (but possibly not) belong to this ethnic group. I will see the bias, and the legal issues and legal comments that support “La Raza” politics and legal activities. It is the same old crap on the NAACP, ADL, LWV, and KKK web sites. These are ALL hate groups aligned along ethnic, gender, racial, and religious lines of political power.

Michael,

I am an open-minded Caucasian:)

If you want a better world, stop thinking only about your race, gender, religious and ethnic group. and start thinking only about an equal standard of the law, and only about “people”, as individuals, NOT GROUPS. THIS IS the CORE CONCEPT in DEMOCRACY. Only when you can take this group think lexicon out of your politics, can you see the rest of the world as the same as you are when you look at them as “individuals”. Once you can do this, you have to “cleave”, unlawful and “illegal” behavior, from legal behavior and punish “individuals for the personal “choices” they make. If you join and think politically as a racial, gender, religious or ethnic group “pack”, you will eventualy be in conflict and at war with those you “exclude”, just like the rest of the people in the world and their leaders who politically act this way.

Also, Michael, I want to thank you for fighting for my rights and freedoms. I really do enjoy coming here to debate the issues, and I will continue to enjoy that freedom by expressing my opinion, as well. The argument can be made that the United States was founded by Patriots in the spirit of positive change and challenging authority. Its history is filled with positive changes made by those who dared to speak up or act when they saw oppression or discrimination. I plan to carry on that tradition. Again, I appreciate this right, and the fact that your service as well as that of others has helped to protect it.

Good for you Diversity Gal, I do not care what ethnicity you are. That is why I do not make these assumptions, except to wonder why people politcially align with racial, gender, religious and ethnic groups, rather than justly remove these concepts entirely from their political alignment and thinking process, and simply look at the behavior as “illegal” and “legal” and whether it is aligned along non-racial, non-gender, non-religious, and non-ethnic group political activities for the benefit of ALL individuals the same. I call ANY political group that cannot do this a HATE group, because these “groups” are the root cause of war in every country I ever went to.

Thank You, and yes the country needs Patriots with just causes. Fighting hate groups and political alignment along lines of racial, gender, religious and ethnic group lines of political power to prevent the destruction of Democracy and growth of “factions” that will destroy it, is one of those just causes. I hope you will join me in this effort.

Michael, I’m still under the impression that we have freedom of assembly…with whatever group we choose (although the FBI might be interested in some groups as it may be interested in some individuals). I’m unwilling to accept your dictates as what consistutes a hate group. My spouse also is a veteran and luckily he’s more open-minded. He espouses none of this white male my-way-or-the-highway-crapola. You’ve shown a total lack of ability to analyze why people of different ethnicities, genders, or races might advocate for their rights.

There is no reason why these “groups” can’t simply represent “people”, ALL People instead of their race, gender, religion and ethnic group. They can focus simply on education, votes, children, finances, community projects, and crime, supporting law enforcement and Laws for the betterment of ALL people, not just their race, gender, religion or ethnic political group. Why do they choose to not do this? Because their leaders and the people who support them are HATE activists that only want to support these “political” activities for the benefit of the race, gender, religion, or ethnic group in the title and mission statement of the HATE Group organization they belong to.

They are not fooling me, I saw these same hate groups in the rest of the world, in the later stages of their political success. I refuse to let it happen here.

SA The reason there is no “white european race card” is because there is no white european race. There is no hispanic race either. According to anthropologists the world is comprised of fusions of three races: caucasoid, mongoloid, and africanoid. The largest population of the caucasoid race exists in the country of India. The caucasoid race is also prevalent in Europe, Northern Africa, the Middle East, Australia, and North and South America. One can have brown skin and still be considered a part of the Caucasoid race. Some antropologists consider american indians (on both continents) to be a part of the caucasoid race, while other consider them to be a fusion of mongoloid and caucasoid who found there way here via the Bering Straight thousands upon thousands of years ago. No one knows for sure. The majority of the people today from Mexico and South America are considered to be mestizo, a mixture of indigeneous population and European and some African. I know that recently many immigrants have come to refer to themselves as “Native Americans” to the extent that they are descended from the indigenous cultures that existed in their countries of orgin, but they are also descendants of white Europeans as well. When I studied my own geneaology I remember asking my mom jokingly what a fusion of German, Hungarian, Danish, Irish, and Native American made me. Her response: “A typical American mutt.”

Yes, you can associate with whatever group you want, as does association with any other group in the world that eventually comes to political power. Hateful people are always allowed by law to associate with other hateful people. That is why these hate groups are so popular. That does not mean I have to let them act on their own lawless belief systems and destroy my country or the law made in the best interests of ALL people by a Democratic majority vote. I can cleave these groups by their own lawless behavior in how they impact my community, my peace, my welfare and my legal system. That is why I only punish or fight people people based on “illegal” and “legal” behavior. But I can still tell you that the root cause of war, is political factions aligned along racial, gender, religious and ethnic group lines of political power. If we had other alignments, legally based only on non-racial, non-gender, non-religious, and non-ethnic group lines of political power, we would only have to fight “criminal” groups that also have the freedom to associate with other “criminals” from taking over the governmemt of the people, by the people The discrimminator of good and bad with these groups is always the same too, the Standard of Law and majority vote.

“I refuse to let it happen here.”

How do you propose doing that?

Michael,

I only announced my race because you claimed that I was likely a member of a group that was a focus of NCLR or NAACP.

As for the thought that we should just erase the concept of group membership, I think we have to agree to disagree. Yes, we are individuals, but a sense of belonging is in our nature. So many things factor into a person’s identity, some of them being family, current environment, cultural traditions, language religion, ethnic heritage, experience, friendships, etc. To ask people to do away with some of these vital portions of identity seems ridiculous to me.

Most of my family has roots in the British Isles (Scotland, England, Ireland). When my family traveled there, my brother purchased a huge British flag and placed it above his bed. I have a family tartan scarf, and a pin from Scotland, and once applied for a St. Andrew’s Society scholarship for Scottish Americans. A lot of my American friends who had grandparents or great-parents from Ireland flash their Irish heritage all the time, especially around St. Patrick’s Day. I don’t think any of us has ever been accused of divided loyalty, or hate against other groups of people. I don’t know…maybe you would.

I do not feel threatened when people organize to help others with a similar identity, as well as try to make their communities a better place by partnering with schools and discouraging discrimination. When I listen to what these groups (NAACP, NCLR, ADL) have to say, I just don’t hear the hate in their message that you seem to hear.

To quote Schoolhouse Rock…”How great to be an American and something else as well.”

The 9-11 incident was a result of a politically aligned “hate group”, that was able to operate in the manner they did , becauase no-one challenged the “legality” of what they were doing as a hate group, funded by other hate groups. No one check their “legal” right to be here. They have many political and funding sources in these various ethnic, gender, religious and ethnic group aligned organizations as “plants” who funnel funding from such groups in the US to their corrupt leaders. What gave them the power to operate was their “community service facade” and the belief by others that they did no harm becauase they were simply supporting “ethnic” or “religious” injustice. That does not mean everyone was doing this in these groups, but because it was a group aligned the way it was, along racial, gender, religious and ethnic lines of political power, a “criminal” element could operate behind a “legal” facade.

Could they have been just as effective if they belonged to the “Childrens Educational Fund of America (CEFA)? The League of Voters (LOV), the National Association for the Advancement of People (NAAP), the National Council of People (NCP)? Perhaps, but I believe such “group” political alignments attract more individuals primarily concerned about children, and ALL people than just the education of the children, or political welfare of members who belonged to the same organizations the 9-11 terrorists did, and would more likely identify their illegal activities to law enforcement.

Diversity Gal I did not claim any such thing, re-read my post. “that you are blind to because you support and likely (but possibly not) belong to this ethnic group.” My caveat, clearly identifies the possibility that you are doing this for some other reason. This is how half truths become whole truths by twisting words on this blog. I call you on it.

We can agree to disagree, However I believe from world experience I am right that the root cause of the problem we have with racial-hatred, gender-hatred, religious-hatred and ethnic-hatred, is the very fact that we claim we have a legal right to join such groups and then advocate politically in these groups to gain political advantage over any other group we “exclude”. We promote diversity over “integration”. We promote “exclusion over “inclusion”. Then I’m sure people will come up with another political “word” to promote racial balancing and quotas, over individual fairness and standard of equal law. We saw this in the 60’s and we will see it again as long as this political trend continues, until we have another civil rights war, only this time along some other HATE group boundary that will be the target, and that will be whichever “Group” is in political power and put their own “ethnic, gender, religious, racial HATE advocates into political offices throughout the nation.

Michael, you’re banging your head on the wall if you honestly believe that advocacy groups are going to go away. If you look at the composition of Congress, our state legislature or the city councils or BOCS, you see that they absolutely don’t reflect their populations. It seems to me more, not less, advocacy is in order. Afterall, these are the people in position to write our laws. And they come to their jobs with gender preferences, economic advantage in many cases, particular cultural backgrounds, particular educational backgrounds, particular religious beliefs – all ingrained and part of who they are.

It was the very fact “the people” could join hate groups along racial, gender, religious and ethnic group lines of power and write hate laws that benefited only their own ethnic group, that was the root cause of the American Civil War (most say it was simply over economics but that is not the entire truth) and the civil rights conflicts of the 50s and 60s that also almost became a war between two races. Those same racial, gender, religious and, ethnic political alignments and conditions are repeated in Bosnia, Niger, Darfur, Somalia, Iran, Iraq, Columbia, Peru, Mexico, El Salvador, Ireland, Wales, China, Afganistan and now here in the US again.

I’m not banging my head cbvbl, I know they aren’t going to go away, people will align politically no matter what, I’m just saying we should increasingly make it more difficult, and eventually illegal to align along 4 political group paths (race, gender, religion and ethnic group), concepts already prohibited in some interpretations of the constitution and 14th admendments, but ignored or even disdained by people like you. I believe we should simply let people align along Democratic and Republican lines of power and political advocacy or some PAC group that only aligns along non-gender, non-racial, non-religious and non-ethnic group politcal lines. The world will be much less at war if we do. I think that is a small price to pay for world peace and the fair and equal treatement of all “individuals”. DEMOCRACY is founded on such a concept, that all men are created equal, they don’t have to break into gender, racial, religious, and ethnic political groups to feel “EQUAL” and powerless if they do not.

Those types of conflicts have always been around and will continue to happen. It apparently is one of the more vile traits of human nature. Every advocacy group does not become genocidal though some have the potential and others do become so.

Are you proposing that money should talk rather than gender, race, ethnicity?

I you feel people SHOULD break into gender, racial, religious and ethnic political groups to advocate only for their group’s special interests in “exclusion” of all others, then we will have the same problems the rest of the world already has, we HAD, and WILL HAVE again, if it is not stopped before it happens again.

You’re assuming that groups advocate for “special privileges” and not merely their share of the pie.

Yes, money can then be attacked as either “criminal” money or “non-criminal” money based on what the “individuals” and companies with that money do with it. If they buy votes, they can be attacked by the Equal Standard of LAW, again by majority vote of the people. That is why the Greeks even invented DEMOCRACY, they knew, as did John Adams in framing the US Constitution, feared and knew that Political factions, would rise along lines on power based on wealth, and would take the power away from the people. The law of “one person, one vote” prevents this more than any other political concept in the world. They just could not envision that “ethnic, racial, gender and religious groups factions raising funding and legal armies, could ALSO be factional threats to DEMOCRACY, but they at least anticipated the “tyranny of the religous” group, even if they did not conceptually grasp the “tyranny of the racial, gender and ethnic group” funded by political action committees and hate groups to buy votes.

Michael,

Didn’t I say that you said “likely?” What is there to call me on? Did I give you the impression that I am twisting your words, and have some sort of malicious purpose? I don’t understand.

Money has far more potential to corrupt or buy our system than does the NAACP, the League of Women Voters, or any other group you so disdain. For one thing, probably the most basic thing, it buys exposure.

“Groups” in history never stop at neutral. At first they want the same “pie” often in disproportion to their numbers because they are a “minority”, so they advocate for special laws that first remove any unfairness in the Standard of Law (a good thing), then once they have this, they advocate for special favors under the law (a bad thing), to give them financial, numerical, educational and social advantage, in disproportion to their numbers, and only because of their ethnic, gender, religious, and ethnic group status, not because of their skill, ability, performance, and talent or other non-gender, ethnic, religiosu group attributes. IF they can get political advantage, they then put thier “own” hate activist leaders into power, they then make new laws in favor of their group only and “exclusive” to all other groups they can malign and Hate. This is what happened in NIGER and Somalia recently. This is how the really BAD people of the world have always been put into political power, and once in power have always oppressed others not of their same race, gender, religious or ethnic group. The US has no frame of reference for this other than the civil rights problem, which we rectified with EQUAL LAW, so we have no idea how it works to create ethnic and class wars of oppression in other countries of the world. I have seen it and I do not intend to let it happen here. I advocate we stop at NEUTRAL, not equal numbers (that is never possible ever), but EQUAL law. No advantage or disadvantage for anyone.

It is individual against indivudual ability, talent, skill and ethics. It is NOT GROUP against GROUP. “Indivdual” and equitable law enforcement with one person one vote democracy, is a more peaceful and fair world to live in. The sins of the child do not pay for the sins of the father. Equal law enforced equally for all prevents any furthur oppression and unfairness on anyone. If you do not have this and enforce “law” you will end up every time with oppression by some group against another “unjustly” purely for their own group’s personal and financial gain, while hurting and discrimminating against everyone else “excluded” politically from their group.

Corruption and injustice always occurs in “degrees”. Murder is always worse than “theft”, but you don’t ignore theft simply because you think murder is worse.
I go after hate groups and people who support hate groups and hate advocate activity wherever they are, whether they are murder’s or just thieves. They are both breaking the law and hurting the freedom and well being of “individuals” protected by this law.

It’s a peaceful and fair world in your view because white males already have the entrenched advantages. People may be making more progress because of their individual skills but that hasn’t always been the case. I don’t know your age, but I’m old enough to remember Virginia’s gender-segregated colleges and the paucity of majors available to those of us who were tax-paying females. When I married after living continually in Virginia for five years, my college tried to charge me out-of-state tuition because my husband claimed residency in another state before leaving the military. In the state where I grew up, the public school system was segregated by race until I was a Senior in high school. All these disadvantages don’t disappear with the stroke of a pen though many have abated. Although my family includes people with Hispanic backgrounds and mixed races, I’m not ready to say all is equal, all is fair, all is balanced. It’s not.

If you do not understand the Supreme Court Ruling “equal opportunity but not equal outcomes” is the fair, NEUTRAL and just law of the land, then you will never get what I am trying to tell you is the root cause of war, in every other nation in the world at war, except those overcome purely by a criminal element, it is an alignment and changing of the standard of law, by groups aligned along racial, gender, religious and ethnic political lines of power to gain supremacy and advantage for themselves “exclusive” of all others not a member of their group.

You are simply saying you want to perpetuate the unlawfullness of the past, as if they are the sins of the present. Do you honestly believe that you as an “individual” deserve more than I do as an “individual” because of what happened in the past, and simply because of your race, gender, religious or ethic group? You do not understand Democracy, the Supreme Court, the law or America.

What makes you think you deserve any more than I do? It is not MY group against your group, it is you against me, I am an individual, you are an individual, we are under the same law, why do you deserve any different treatment under the law than I do? If you treat me that way as an individual you are discrimminating against me. If I can prove you are claiming this “advantage” simply because of your race, gender, religious or ethnic groups status and not your ability, talent, skill or performance, I will sue you in court for discrimmnation and I will win. Justice will be done individual by individual, not group by group, that is where your thinking is flawed.

We’re just going to disagree. You appear to think that the groups aligned along race, gender, ethnic, and religious lines are the root cause of war and that the law is always neutral. And I think that because the law truly isn’t interpreted equally and – in many cases is not neutral – there will be a need for those advocacy groups. The interpretation of the law may be their reason to rebel. (And before you get in a panic, that rebellion can be as simple as sitting at a lunch counter.)

I suppose I could just continue to beat this dead horse, but I’ll wait awhile and let it all sink in. In the end you will discover that what I say is true and just and fair for everyone the same and that “lawlessness” is not an option in a DEMOCRACY.

Time for me to move on, While I’m gone rationalize your ethnic, gender, religious, racial-centric beliefs any way you want, it will not make them right.

Ha ha. I’m waiting to see if you change your tune when there are no white kids at Thomas Jefferson High School because they can’t make the cut academically.

Emma, 17. July 2008, 22:48

SA, haven’t you heard the mantra of La Raza: “For the race, everything, for everyone else, nothing”?

Just picking nits…. I believe it started out as a MEChA (Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlan) slogan, but La Raza adopted it too.

‘Por La Raza todo. Fuera de La Raza nada.’ – ‘For The Race everything. Outside The Race, nothing.’

O thank goodness someone else thinks the Asian component at TJ is signficant!!

es_la_ley, where did you ever learn to nitpick like that? It sounds so much more inclusive that way!

Michael,
You are incorrect regarding the meaning of La Raza. I posted, from their website, the ACTUAL translation. Please stop propogading misinformation.

Michale,
Are purposely obtuse? The League of Women Voters was formed when women were DENIED the right to vote. Now they focus on inclusive democracy for all groups.

It seems that some people think that GROUP=EVIL. So does that mean that churches should be abolished (the members may come to view themselves as a collective and share a point of view that differs from another group)? Fraternities and sororities, even for service purposes…should they go away, too (they are often selective or exclusive in their membership and promote that members will enjoy an advantageous network after college)?

For that matter…maybe the sports teams should go. Those team members get too chummy with each other. The fans are so rabid…they cheer only for their team, and those cheerleaders shout supremacy chants! No more scholarships for anything, I say. Sports scholarships only help athletes! Academic scholarships only help nerds! Scholarships for the disabled only help those with disabilities! Those guys are getting all the advantages, and someone should put a stop to it.

Maybe we should throw all school clubs, book clubs, informal game nights, and slumber parties out the window, too. If the members of these organizations start talking too much, they may form opinions, develop bonds with each other, want to take care of each other like a little family. Don’t they know that you have to feel exactly the same about every individual person on this earth for this world to work? If we don’t stop all this group membership while they are young, these kids will eventually become interested in joining organizations as adults, which everyone knows will lead directly to WWIII.

Sorry for the lampoon…I just felt like the demonization of the group was getting a tad out of hand.

If everyone had equal status in the world they lived, there would be less need for advocacy groups. It is human nature to associate with those who have similiarities and who have similar needs. To suggest that people abandon this element of not only being a human but being animal, is ridiculous. Look at a few words in the English language that describe an animal’s tendency to group: flock, herd, pack, team, Methodist, alumni, league….Michael, you get the general idea.

What you are suggesting (and don’t you dare give me your usual list!) smacks in the face of everything we know about psychology, anthropology, zoology, sociology, history, just for starters.

THANK YOU, Moon-howler. Well said!

Elena,

that’s what LA RAZA says their name means, that’s objectivity for you. Dont you think they have a reason for putting that on their website? I’m sure you are smart enought to search and find out the definition somewhere else other than them. I’m seriously starting to doubt your intelligence level, I’m thinking it’s somewhere between a rock and a pile of dirt.

La Raza is literally translated to mean “the race” they are a racist organization hell bent on ensuring reconquista here in the united states. of the SPL should profile anyone it’s these.

Elvis, Why don’t you check with TH about La Raza. Why are you so threatened by that group? What does the NAACP do for you? How about that? Actually, I would tend to let those who have a keener sense of idiomatic expression in a language set the tone for what La Raza means. I seriously doubt if they give a rat’s ass what you think.

I find nothing revolutionary about their website. From everything I know about that organization, they are what they say they are. Sort of like the Hibernians, regardless of how many people tried to associate them with Sinn Fein in the past. Your enemies will always find some vague association with some radical group.

Actually, I have done the same thing to your radical group. Each and every time your group will attempt to make a point, there will be someone from anti blog pointing the Order of the Red Circle out for hatefulness and personal agenda. Just something to think about.

Interesting thread you got here,

I picked up and couldn’t help but see how it wandered. I was the sign driver. This sign is nothing new. r We’ve had it for a couple years. What’s new was that we had been using it 99.9% of the time challenging our government at their offices downtown with messages they had a hard time defending. Yes, I drove by the day labor area too. Stands to reason since that is my neighborhood, and I would drive that road on my way to do something many people just talk about doing. giving hell to my representatives. These day laborers are no angels. They have moved in and due to their sheer volumne have began dictating terms in this neighborhood. They and their proponents think they are above all laws here, not just immigration related ones. The truth of the matter is that before I started fighting back, people had a difficult time walking down the street to the store without them disrespecting the girls, forcing you to walk in the busy street, or blocking your driveways. They are not welcome here to most residents, but somehow they are left unmolested by authorites so a transient group of employers can make use of them, and a band of criminal gangs can manage them. I’m sorry, but they and their protectors must go. The only jobs they seem to get here are under-the-table, untaxed, and uninsured ones. The only ones profitting by that are the workers and the scamming employers. And no, I’m not wealthy. I’m actually quite poor. And no, i don’t drive up and down the street wasting fuel. We plan the trips carefully, and spend our time parked in front ot choice locations like the state capital, the courthouse, and the local politicians haunts. You’d bet I’d take donations for that. But right now, and for the past 2 years it’s been on what few dimes I have. All this race BS just serves as a big smokescreen for fraud. Somehow race and circumstance are now supposed to trump equal protection. If you take away the immigration law, you still have under the table income.

Sorry, you won’t find “equal protection” here, Davi, unless you defy zoning restrictions by attaching your sign to the remnants of a burned-out building, cover it with inflammatory, hateful rhetoric against white Americans, ignore the feelings of people in the neighborhood–oh, and change your last name to “Fernandez”–and no one will touch you, because they will run in fear of your lawyers. Welcome.

Welcome Davi,
I am wondering, was there a specific event that happened that gave you the desire to put the sign on your truck? You mentioned that before you starting fighting back people were afraid to walk down the street, what has changed due to your actions? If the day laborerers were no longer there, would you still be driving with your sign? My belief is that many of these immigration issues are tensions within neighborhoods.

Is Saveourstate relationed to any of the “Save” organizations that we know locally – Save the Old Dominion, Help Save Manassas, Help Save Virginia, Help Save Loudoun? The Minutemen? ALIPAC?

Censored bybvbl,

I’m not sure that SOS has a formal, if any, connection to the “Help Save” organizations. However, the Southern Poverty Law Center writes a little about SOS in its bio of Chelene Nightingale, whom they deem a Nativist. They may have a connection through FAIR, however. According to the following article, Chelene Nightingale used to be a field worker for FAIR, and took over as spokesperson and event coordinator of SOS from its founder, Joe Turner, who moved on to a job in FAIR. As we know, FAIR has had a relationship with HSM. Some have theories that FAIR works through grassroots organizations like SOS and HSM.

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?pid=1530

The SPLC has classified SOS as a hate group.

Thanks for the info Diversity Gal.

Davi,
Have you had contact with F.A.I.R? I believe they are masters at using people, concerend about immigration, but unable to effect change through positive local county measures. I think our neighbhorhood services has been very effective in dealing with some of these tension, but they are just the beginning of change for some communities.

“relationed”=”related” above

DiversityGal, thanks for the info. When I did a google search on saveourstate, an ALIPAC forum showed up and a spokesperson mentioned that the two organizations worked together on projects.

http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:7n0fZyG-25IJ:www.alipac.us/ftopict-2706.html+saveourstate&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=20&gl=us&ie=UTF-8

No Elena, I’ll say it again, and again. Women got the right to vote, but the LWV continued to fight way beyond that for other women’s issues, exclusive of men’s issues after that purpose was achieved, which was the equal implementation of the voting law. Once the law is equal, what is the point of retaining the title, the League of Women Voters? They should change the name to league of voters (LOV) and equally balance the issues of most concern to men as well as the issues of most concern to women. This political organization does not do that and as a result is a hate group that refuses to include men’s primary political issues. No, the organization is not concerned with “just” the equal implementation of the law, but primarily and most vocally an organization supporting the views and opinions of women and women’s issues and is an organization dominated by women and women’s legal interpretations. I cruised the site and found it entirely biased in the eyes and interests of women, without an equal representation of men’s opinions, representation by men and men’s legal issues. These issues are “excluded” in large areas of political interest to men, and only include men’s issues when they just happen to coincide identically with women’s viewpoints, education, voting, and community safety.

I see them as a hate group, with hate rhetoric, until they change their name and equally balance the most critical legal issues men face today (Such as child support, child custody, divorce court, alimony, male medical support, crime and crisis support clinics for men, violence support clinics for men, job support and educational resources for men, and financial responsibility law changes, currently biased toward men in favor of women ” in the married woman’s acts”.) None of these significant male issues are fairly dealt with by the LWV, in fact they favor women almost exclusively.

That makes them a hate group to me.

DiversityGal 21″18

I have a simple, legal concept that ONLY 4 groups of political alignment should be made illegal to operate politically,

Groups that support race, gender, religion and ethnic group politics in “exclusion” of all other people in these same groups they identify as “different” That is a hate group, that is hate rhetoric. It is that simple, and matches the Supreme Court ruling, Equal opportunity for all, but not equal outcomes, and that “discrimmination and privilege” based purely on race, gender, religion and ethnic group is ILLEGAL”.

What part of this concept do all of you NOT UNDERSTAND?

Diversity Gal 21:18
“Sorry for the lampoon…I just felt like the demonization of the group was getting a tad out of hand.”

You obviously weren’t paying attention to the “content” and “context” of the argument, hearing only what you want to hear.

Michael,
I just will not argue with that kind of twisted logic. Seriously, they are a hate group, give me a break Michael. Now you just sound silly.

Moon-howler 0:11

Every racial, gender, religious, ethnic “group” goes way beyond its initial charter to “rectify the law” and make it equal. As soon as they achieve that, they begin to heavily advocate for “privilege” and special laws just for themselves in “exclusion” of others not in this group.

Do any of you not know, that Abraham Lincoln (A Republican), issued the emancipation proclamation, and stated the law of the land was “equality for all” and that all men were created equal?

As soon as he did this, the radical political arm of the DEMOCRATIC PARTY, supporting the politics of the most powerful senators and congressmen of the South, immediately went WAY BEYOND the current law (which was equal), and FORMED a political party group aligned along ethnic lines of power (called the KKK). This group operated outside the law, helped to support the making of NEW law that favored only one ethnic group. If the forming of this political group along racial, gender, religious and ethnic group political lines of power, had been made ILLEGAL, there would be no Jim Crow laws that could be passed, no political movement to advocate for them “exclusive” of all others, and no need for the later formation of the NAACP (also a radical political group of the DEMOCRATIC PARTY aligned along ethnic lines of political power), to at first protect themselves from “unequal law”, and make the law equal again, but once this law was obtained in the 1960s, continued to go way beyond that law, to discrimminate against any “individual” not a member of the NAACP ethnic group and pass new laws in the 1970s and 1980’s to force school bussing, force educational numbers balamcing policy and admissions ofices to discrimminate, and to force mandatory quotas, and to create new laws that favored ONLY their ethnic group “exclusive” of others, until 1990s Supreme Court rulings make the law equal again to avoid discriminating against any member of a group who had LARGER numbers than minority numbers, who’s members of that minority group discriminated against ALL others by favoring laws which benefited them ONLY because of their race, gender, religion and ethnicity?

Both the KKK and the NAACP, now the ADL and NCLR are using the same radical tactics as political arms of the DEMOCRATIC party to do it all over again.

Elena, Obviously you cannot see the injustice that this “hate” group inflicts on men by women. I wonder why? Could it be because you belong to this “gender biased” organization? That is like a member of the KKK not being able to see the injustice it is imposing on people who are not a member of the KKK ethnic group.

Interesting tidbit, Andrew Jackson arguably one of the worst and most evil President’s next to Nixon, …was a DEMOCRAT, and was called a “jackass”, he liked the reputation so well, he had his party adopt it as the official mascot!!!

Michael,

Hmm, I wonder how many elected officials (Democrat OR Republican) and Supreme Court justices share your interesting view point on the law and all these hate groups…

It’s Michael’s world…I just don’t feel like I live in it:)

Look Michael knows what he is talking about.. Diversity Gal, when a group of people declare themselves “Native Americans” they exclude others. When a sign owner vilifies “White Europeans” he erects walls that create racial tensions. When any group segregates themselves according to gender/religion they breed resentment. We need to understand that there is no such thing as “race”. Race is a sociological/historical construct ONLY. Race is a concept created and supported by man. When a person can step away from their ideas about race and realize that race is fluid, when people can realize that skin color does not denote a race, then maybe we can actualy be free enough to solve our issues.

Michael,
Are you comparing the ADL to the KKK or Neo-Nazi group or any other group that dehumanizes other people? You have twisted logic, you really do. Yes, those horrible people for wanting to make sure that never again does a holocaust happen, yes, those hateful jews for promoting tolerance of others. How DARE the ADL promote equality for all people!

You know Michael, upon reading your posts again, it is clear you are just pulling my chain! I fell for it, you got me

OK,

Joe Turner has not worked for FAIR for quite some time. Chelene never did. We have members that belong to ALIPAC, MinuteMen, etc.
SPLC calls us Nativist because they cannot prove we are racists. they call us anti-immigrant too, but that really is a sham. Morris Dees is just a race huckster with a law degree. He fits the typical ambulance chaser characterization. He’s just found a gravy train and he doesn’t want it to end.
Have things changed since we started using the sign? Good question……I’d say things have started to change. And there is not tension between neighbors. there is tension between neighbors and outsiders. Most of the day laborers don’t live here. they bus or drive here. Some walk. Their customers don’t live here either. they swoop in and pretend they are helping the downtrodden, but all the while deny them workers comp insurance coverage, unemployment insurance, safety training, and in a few cases, actual pay. It’s all a scam. Foriegners scamming the neighborhood, the country, and themselves really. the employers scamming the tax and employment system. the government scamming those who play by the rules by not enforcing the laws equally.
What drove me to do it?
I’d say it was all of it at once. The neighborhood turned into a human marketplcae by day, and a war zone by night. Gangs giving me the evil eye; And most annoying was my competitors plucking their help off the street there and cutting my economic throat while my complaints to authorities of unfair competition went unaddressed. truthfully, the sign is the very least of what’ they deserve. all of them

Michael, I am not going to engage in your reinvention of American history. Now lets see…why might I feel that way….you stated that the radical wing of the Democratic party formed the KKK? Enough said. Game over.

I don’t live in your world either.

I am going to be brutally honest. Stop saying ‘ race, gender, religion and ethnic group politics. ‘ You sound like a head case. Your rhetoric denies everything known about human beings.

Think up something new to talk about.

Moon-howler, go take a close look at the constitution. In it you will find that the concept of political advocacy and favoring the law to support any race, gender, religion or ethnic group in a disadvantaged or privileged way by biasing the law, is ILLEGAL.

It is BECAUSE we act the way we do as human beings the Supreme Court has made such action against others of race, gender, religion and ethnic group politics to bias the law ILLEGAL. There is nothing to talk about new because this problem will never go away as long as we have racists and ethnic hate groups of any race, gender, religion or ethnic group aligned that way politically.

BTW, If you don’t believe the KKK was formed by Democrats you have not studied enough history.