The Flip Side of the Sign: Thumbs Up, Down or the Finger?
What would your reaction be if this man, Davi Rodriguez drove up and down the main drag in the City of Manassas? How about past Coverstone 7-11?
Is his method better or worse than the course of action taken by Mr. Fernandez? You be the judge.
According to Channel 13 news out of Sacramento:
.
A story from CBS 13 in Sacramento, California featured one man ennobled by his passion for confronting day laborers with a trailer-mounted billboard saying “DEPORT THEM ALL.”
Davi Rodriguez drives the sign up and down the streets of Sacramento where day laborers wait for work, sometimes videotaping the reactions and uploading them to YouTube. Workers we talked to say they feel harassed, and they’re losing jobs
.
If you squint your eyes, click your heels together 3 times, you might just think you were back in Kansas.
I wonder how this person has the time to spend three hours a day, driving up and down the street, wasting his gas at 4 dollars a gallon. I understand that day laborers are an issue, I do, but I imagine there are more constructive ways to deal with this problem. I have a difficlt time, demonizing people, who are willing to work to pay their way. Rod’s comment a thread or two back was great in dealing with day laborer sites and included concrete suggestions for action.
Thanks for the find Moon-howler!
At least this man is NOT breaking any zoning violations with his sign.
corr: breaking *any* zoning violations.
Okay, this is a man who needs to find gainful employment. Has anyone else noticed that most of the anti-immigrant crowd doesn’t need to work? Who supports these people? -SC
He seems to have too much time on his hands and deep pockets to afford California gas prices…but at least he’s out there taking his chances with his fellow motorists and the day laborers.
I think people who do this are viewed as crackpots by most people. At least Mr. F has a thought-out message (agree with it or not) on his sign. This guy merely has the typical trite blurbs.
Ruby, I wonder if he causes traffic congestion and presents a traffic nuisance? I wonder how many wrecks can be chalked up to him?
I drew no conclusions. The story seemed to similar but different to what we have going on right here in Manassas– a sign, daylabor attention, people wanting work, people not wanting them to work.
I, like Elena, have a hard time demonizing anyone who wants to work. I was raised to think a day’s work was good and not working and supporting your family was ‘triflin’ or worse.
My first thought is shared by Ruby in regaurds to zoning. The second one, is a memory of that furniture store adverstising they were going out of business with similar signs but 2 trucks-driving up and down Sudley (234). Then I thought about the life size image of the guy from F.H Furr that looks like he ready to fall out of the back of the truck waving to everyone. They would all seem to be a distraction and a question of safety. Shoot, I think the car washes with all the sign holding and people chanting are just as much of a distraction.
Has anyone thought about driving to coverstone when the HSM Minutemen are on patrol and asking if they would cut your lawn for $20 an hour?
This is one we do it in Herndon… If you have no problem with the concept of hiring a day laborer, but feel awkward because of the HSM presence this is what you do…
1. If HSM is present, drive up to them first and ask them honestly if they will cut your lawn and trim your shrubs that day for $20 an hour. (you can guess what they will say to that)
2. Be sure to mention something about them being a bunch of freeloaders and drive on over to the real daylaborers. The law only states that you cannon knowingly hire an illegal alien, but hey, you are not a professional contractor, you don’t need to check status.
3. You can trust day laborers in little tasks like mowing your lawn, or trimming some hedges. Common sense would tell you that it’s risky to hire anyone off the street for bigger construction jobs. If you are looking for day laborers to help you out in that, you would be well advised to go to a formal site because they will insure you get a worker who knows how to do the job you need. Most Day Laborers are there to work, not to murder and rape you, but you run a risk with just about any business you do so be sure to be on guard whenever your doing business with any stranger. Being a single man in a crummy house, I don’t have too much of an issue, but everyone has their threshholds of danger and I don’t fault anyone here if they feel unconfortable about hiring a Day laborer.
4. Be sure to drive away with a smile, the camera footage has just shown that you did not discriminate, that you asked for anyone who wanted to work for a reasonable wage, and some individuals refused.
Truthfully, I wish circumstances were such that no one would have need to resort to day labor. Not all Day laborers are Illegal immigrants, the ranks are composed of many types people with many types of circumstances. Some can’t get hired because of a previous criminal history, others don’t have the money to join the big unions (though that is not an excuse in free labor Virginia) in some cases, there is just more skill than there is need. As more and more of the construction market wanes all accross the nation, you will start seeing more workers on the street. Some will give up working and beg, others will look for a county or country that has need, some will risk their own lives by standing on corners and hoping against growing odds that someone will have need of them. Day laborerers are motivated by extream necessity, otherwise they would not be there.
And bringing us back on topic, Would this idiot in the truck not be doing more for his country if he would go out and get a real job? what useful purpose is there in harassing daylaborers, using up precious fuel and causing dangerious traffic problems. At least the 9500 Liberty sign is low maintinance. The only reason that sign is up is because of HSM, if they would disband, I guarentee it will come down. Not likely, and my guess is it’s days are numbered, but it’s razing will be worth as much as Sadaam’s Statue falling in Bagdad. HSM will tout it as a huge sucsess and a victory for the rule of law. but it’s the reality on the ground that counts, and the reality is HSM has been compromised, they just don’t know it yet.
Assuming the police have made sure the trailer is registered and the sign is securely mounted, I say it’s his gas money to burn. I wonder how strong his continued commitment to this cause will be as gas prices continue to escalate, but that’s his problem. I’m sure he’ll ask for donations at some point, though I’d question the sanity of anybody who would assume responsibility for gassing up somebody else’s vehicle at $4.0+/gallon.
Umm has anyone noticed that this guys name is Davi Rodriguez !?!?!??? Isnt that kinda……IRONIC!
Si, ironic indeed.
What is this? The morphying of Mr. F and The Order of the Red Circle to recreate some new being?
and Rod- How can you even begin to compare that the 9500 Liberty street sign is justifiable and Davi Rodriguez isnt??
The 9500 sign is breaking the ZONING law and Davi Rodriguez isnt breaking ANY law and I guess your assumptions of the 9500 liberty street is that of some sort of tit-for-tat thing against HSM, which one can argue is discrimmination on Mr Fernandez’s part.
Talk about a double standard..
Yes, I noticed the irony of his name being Rodriguez.
This is the drive by poster equivalent of nanananana - Mr Rodriguez should grow up and get a life - maybe even try having a relationship with another human being!
I guess he’s a man of independent means if he has time to drive up and down all day, not to mention the gas.
He should take the money he’s spending on his sad endeavour and donate it to a local children’s charity…
Why is everyone in an uproar that he is “spending gas”!!
Its HIS money, HIS time..What makes you think he has no job?
(hmmmm I see stero-typing here..shame shame)
can you say h-y-p-o-c-r-i-t-e!
I think that he is doing a public service, trying to communicate the proper message to the criminals who sit and wait in this country hoping for amnesty. I think that the bleeding hearts who seek to erect day labor centers and fight for the right to loiter and actually doing a disservice to the guys sitting out there. Because those guys ARE going home, and will NEVER be citizens - anyone with any sense who follows the Amnesty debate can see that. That train left the station. It made its biggest push in 2006-2007 and it failed.
It’s just a question of whether you want more poor unfortunates to come pay coyotes and drug traffickers 10-20K of their money to lead them in here and possibly rape them so that they can try to live in flophouses in suburban neighborhoods until their houses are foreclosed or the owners cited for zoning violations, before they eventually go home. I don’t know what kind of charity it supposedly is to encourage these people to tell relatives to come make such a journey instead of encouraging them to pursue legal alternatives and/or to make something out of their home countries. Doesn’t seem very charitable to me. Unless you think you can get these people some type of citizenship or better living conditions - and that isn’t happening. They come here to be wage slaves, they function as wage slaves, then they leave. So it will be for the forseeable future, with significant threat of deportation and family seperation.
Wasn’t there some dude who used to drive all over PW County protesting taxes? Some of you old timers should remember him. He had a sign he hauled around.
Memory refresh please.
Yea Just Cause, silly us to assume he has no job. Maybe he is a courier.
Why do you feel it is hypocritical to assume he has no job? Perhaps it is erroneous but I don’t see why it is hypocritical. Please provide further information.
Some of you here should be driving around with billboards that say :
“Come to America and fight for the rights you are denied in your own country. Come take a chance on your future because it will make me feel good about myself, make me feel I’m doing something to combat world poverty. If it all goes bad you go home and I’ll stay here and find another left-wing cause”.
Cat Scratch Fever, was that the guy who owns/owned Parson’s on Rt. 234? He used to park his truck in front of the McCoart building.
Yes! That’s the person I was thinking of, Censored. He always parked at the McCoart Building. I don’t know what ever became of him. Old soldiers never die…they just fade away.
CSF, was he in some sort of dispute about land and a landfill? And then probably the tax assessment on his land which didn’t get used for the landfill? I don’t remember the details. I just remember seeing the truck parked in front of the McCoart building.
Ricardo Bentley:
But wait Ricardo, if he wanted to communicate to the day laborers wouldn’t he have made the sign in English AND Spanish? We are a multilingual country now Ricardo. Freedom of speech is protected by the Rule of Law.
Amnesty 2009 is on the way….
You HSM guys are finished Ricardo…
Amnesty 2007 has significantky lkess support and votes than Amnesty 2006 did … no I would not count on Amnesty 2009. It may be the next President’s Waterloo.
Rick Bentley, some of those guys don’t want to become citizens. They’d be happy to have visas that would allow them to get temporary jobs here. That could be a win/win situation.
The Republicans will fight it like hell after the election - because they know it would mean a generation’s worth of non-competitive elections.
And I think most Democrats will get off the boat as well.
Yard Dog- because You do not practice what you speak….You are not “true” to your belief.
The Republicans will fight it like hell after the election
That’s assuming there are many Republicans left after the elections and that you can count on moderate Republicans to support your agenda.
Everyone and anyone who is anything other than a loyal Democrat will be scared - rightfully so - of an influx of tens of millions of Hispanics who will vote disproportionately Democratic and swing each and every electionmfor the next 50 years. This is one thing that Limbaughs and Hannity’s will pick up and talk to each day that will actually RESONATE with moderates and independents.
The elitists failed in 2007 and they will never succeed with this. Every time Congress picks this up and gets anywhere near a “comprehensive solution” they hear from their constituents, and the message is not lost on them. this is the new third rail of American politics.
I’m going to enjoy being part of the coalition that beats either Presidential candidate over the head on this issue after his election, and attempts to define him by it.
It is easier to destroy than to create. Objectively it is fairly obvious that the Amnesty solution is partially destroyed, and will be fully destroyed during the coming year or two. McCain and Bush’s best attempts to falsely define the vocabulary and problem set failed. The genie won’t go back in the bottle. Note that Bush understands it’s over, and is now actually authorizing law enforcement measures for the future viability of his party politically.
Everyone and anyone who is anything other than a loyal Democrat will be scared - rightfully so - of an influx of tens of millions of Hispanics who will vote disproportionately Democratic and swing each and every electionmfor the next 50 years. This is one thing that Limbaughs and Hannity’s will pick up and talk to each day that will actually RESONATE with moderates and independents.
Limbaugh and Hannity can talk non-stop and it won’t resonate with me at all and I’m an Independent. I’m socially liberal and more fiscally conservative. I’ve never voted for a Republican at the national level although I have voted for some locally. I’m interested in practical solutions not what some windbag radio/tv host has to say. Except Bill Maher because he’s clever.
Smile, your on candid camera
http://www.insidenova.com/isn/news/local/article/prince_william_police_get_license_plate_readers/18504/
Sorry Rick, your Morale breaking propaganda is having no effect. If I were you I’d be more worried about your connections to HSM and Greg, you will soon be getting a nasty suprise and it will come from the inside.
Your batallion has been surrounded and neutralized on the outside and the inside has been compromised, Greg and the other members have no clue who the plant is, i’m just counting down the days untill the trap is sprung.
just wait….:}
Red Dawn,
These type of systems should be outlawed for use by the police. Once, they network this information police can track you wherever you are at any time of the day. Will they use this info in PWC to focus in on hispanics? Possibly. Say goodbye to privacy.
Where we go and what we do is nobody’s business.
But I challenge any of you to exercise your constitutionally protected first amendment rights and take a video camera and start recording the police. Be careful…you might end up in pain. The police are not here to protect you. They are government employees who protect you some of the time as a byproduct of their work. Their main job is to be the muscle of those in power. And the powers that be will protect police from you when you bring complaints against them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ftjgyPPxGg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e7ZLl8cSwY
more:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWnqcQB_L_Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iI9r1ruHI4U
Both candidates have been desperately sucking up to the Hispanic vote in the last week or so. Whoever wins will realize that it was because he was the lesser of 2 evils, and will pay dearly for his pandering. The short-term gain of being elected will be his downfall if he tries to shove some kind of blanket amnesty down our throats.
Rod, I hope you are a very patient person.
Mackie, I gather you are no fan of Chief Deane, then, since his ” main job is to be the muscle of those in power.” How refreshing.
Anyway, so that I am not accused of being a “hate bunny,” I will address the thread topic. Mr. Rodriguez, unlike Mr. Fernandez, is not breaking any laws. He is free to speak his mind. The gas he burns is his problem. And how shocking that he is videotaping! Oh, wait, isn’t that what ? Except that Eric lacks the cojones to film people openly, preferring to skulk behind bushes.
Mr. Fernandez is alienating the community while he willfully breaks zoning laws. The public officials who allowed this preferential treatment to go on for so long will pay dearly for their inaction, because the voters will remember.
JC, nice dodge. How do you know what I believe? I ask a question and get a smart ass answer. Why do you consider assuming he has no job to be hypocritical? If he has time to drive around 4 hours a day, I would assume he was rich and didn’t need to work.
Why are you so combative?
Mr. Fernandez is alienating the community while he willfully breaks zoning laws. The public officials who allowed this preferential treatment to go on for so long will pay dearly for their inaction, because the voters will remember.
Would you prefer that the voters cough up millions of bucks to the DOJ or that the City pay added attorneys’ fees? It seemed that the voters were aware of the sign this spring, aware of HSM’s furor over the sign, aware that HSM had a favored slate of candidates, and then the voters, those pesky individuals,voted against those candidates. The City residents have spoken. They prefer to let the legal system take care of the issue and they prefer to move on to building a more positive image of the City.
Remember, you can always place your faith in the police. They always do the right thing.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=LaX0dSRl9zw&fmt=6
ok this is pretty perplexing: a blog owner (elena) complains that a guy is driving around all day (during the work day) when she herself doesnt work? Dont get it. Unless you call coddling illegal aliens work, you shouldnt talk.
maybe the guy took the day off, maybe the guy is just plain lazy or…maybe the guy got canned from a job that an illegal alien took for less money. the possibilities are endless however I dont think for a second that a wannabe activist who doesnt have a job, cries at bocs meetings, supports the illegal alien left and is the poorest example of an honest person I can mention deserves to comment about this story.
Censored, do you even live in the City to know what the hell you are even talking about? The three candidates for City Council, Wolfe, Way and Smith, ran unopposed for three vacancies in May. “The City residents have spoken,” indeed.
Censored, who was on the HSM “favored slate of candidates” for City Council? They must have been written in invisible ink on the ballot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QZtWmivIYw&feature=related
Jobless Rate for Youths Is Increasing
Competition Fierce For Low-Skill Summer Positions
By Kari Lydersen
The Washington Post, July 15, 2008; A02
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/14/AR2008071402406.html
So tell us again that illegals are only doing the jobs Americans wont do.
Emma,
You seem to have a big problem with Eric. Maybe I’m wrong, but I have seen exactly one YouTube video shot from behind some bushes. The rest of the endless amounts of footage contains interviews (some with Greg), HSM meetings, BOS meetings, etc. How does one clip amongst the others show his preference for the hidden camera? Is there something on that clip that bothers you?
and now…to continue the thread…
As for the Liberty Wall, I agree with Censored bybvbl that Mr. Fernandez seems to have put more thought into things. Oooo, he put the words of one of the most respected and influential non-violence/civil rights leaders of all time (Gandhi) on his sign…how dare he?! In any case, these guys are both exercising their rights…even if I don’t agree with Mr. Rodriguez.
Emma:
Actually, I haven’t heard any bad things about Chief Deane except from the lunatic HSM types who want to draw and quarter him for resisting the resolution. He seems like an ok Chief to me.
Yeah, Emma, I do know what the hell I’m talking about. Dave Core and Maureen Wood ran for the Republican nomination and lost. Since the Dems fielded no candidates, the Republicans’ choice gives a hint that Manassas City residents weren’t enamored of HSM’s candidates. The majority of residents apparently prefer to move on with their lives and concentrate on improving their community, their schools, their business appeal.
Ok, Mackie, so who are the bad cops, then? The ones who caught you breaking the law?
A redneck drivin’ his pick-up truck up and down Main Street all day long. There’s a rumor on the internet that the sign used to say, “GIT ‘R DUNN!” before he painted the anti-immigrant language over it.
Mackie,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcROvivYkw4
LOL, you better stay awake…just kidding
“(elena….) when she herself doesnt work?”
Raising a family with small children and taking care of a home is quite a bit of work, in case you never tried it Elvis. Fortunately, it’s the kind of work that allows some flexibility. Unfortunately, in order to work OUTSIDE the home, moms need a job with even MORE flexibility. When you come back as a woman with children in your next life, please report in…..let us know how you manage.
Mackie, don’t worry, unless your car is stolen, that license plate reader technology won’t track your whereabouts, unless you’re wanted or part of an investigation. No police department is going to run 1500 registrations per minute to find out who owns the car. The machine is used to compare the plates that are read with the stolen vehicles entered into the National system, thereby enhancing the chance of vehicle recovery.
By the way Mackie, you’re painting an excess of 1/2 million police officers across the nation in strictly negative terms because of some bad apples. Should we use the same logic to broad brush illegal immigrants for the bad apples in their group? I can give you a list of illegal alien bad apple acts in Prince William to make my point, including murderers, rapist, child molesters, burglers etc.
My point is, don’t paint others with a broad brush if you don’t want it done to a group you support.
I think the only candidate HSM might have objected to would have been Smith, Censored. Way and Wolfe were both described by Greg as “a fine choice.” Check it out.
I’m guessing you don’t live in the City, do you, Censored? Because people here hate that sign and it is alienating many folks and eroding any shred of sympathy they may have for Mr. F’s cause. Easy for you to stand on your high horse and tell us what we have to put up with, so you can feel like some self-righteous hero of the downtrodden.
DiversityGal, Mr. Fernandez has left an unsafe structure standing and is violating zoning restrictions that us non-Hispanics without pricey activist lawyers would never get away with. That gets beyond free speech, and opens the door for a lot other “hate” groups to erect similar structures to make their point. Is that what you want?
Elvis,
Elena didn’t post this thread, Moon-howler did. Fact checking
Lucky, if Mackie’s car is stolen, he’ll be crying to those police he hates so much, trust me. Laws are for everyone else, not for him.
Emma and Lucky,
I am reading his message from a different perspective and that would be of Big Brother?
Does this not concern anyone in the least? Who is in control? WE the people?
“He that would live in peace and at ease, must not speak all he knows nor judge all he sees.”
Benjamin Franklin
Just a thought
hate bunny jpeg…
http://www.monkeytypist.com/images/content/bunny001.jpg
This man is exercising his free speech rights (the right to hold up a political sign), without violating zoning laws and other community ordinances. Though you may not like the content, he has the right as long as he is NOT BREAKING ANY EXISTING LAW.
Red Dawn, 17. July 2008, 19:34
‘He that would live in peace and at ease, must not speak all he knows nor judge all he sees.”
Benjamin Franklin
Ben’s my favorite Founder. I couldn’t pick a favorite quote (there are too many) but the one you posted is a great one.
Mackie’s posts in this thread and others are consistently critical of law enforcement officers. Are there bad apples, absolutely. But this blog has also consistently decried the use of a broad brush against anyone. So why is it acceptable for a multiple contributor to this blog to use a broad brush against law enforcement? I was merely telling him that such an action can go both ways, that he cannot have it both ways.
There are multiple instances in this community of illegal alien criminal acts to include multiple homicides, rapes, child molesters etc, yet, we all scream when we use those to paint the entire illegal alien community. So, what’s good for the goose is good for the gander…
Don’t use a tactic you abhor used against a group you support. That’s all I am saying.
sorry..
“don’t use a tactic you abhor against another group”.
Emma,
I live in the City of Manassas. I have lived here since I was 3 years old (moved from Manassas in Prince William County). I lived in the same house until college, and moved back to the city when I was done. I purchased my own home in the City of Manassas and am a proud resident.
As a City of Manassas citizen, I support Mr. Fernandez’ s efforts. This Caucasian girl does not feel alienated in the slightest, and I know lots of other City of Manassas residents who feel like I do. Please do not think I am trying to speak for every person who opposes the resolution; I am just letting you know that I am one of many in the City of Manassas residents who understands what Mr. Fernandez is doing.
Of course I don’t want hate groups to put up signs. According to a 2001 SLPC report, however, they already have in our state…
“FAIR recently helped run a billboard campaign in Virginia blaming immigrants for traffic and sprawl.”
Red Dawn,
Lol!
Do NOT click on this video!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PWJFVpzxKw&feature=related
Red Dawn
Regarding the economic divide that is fast approaching…..this one’s for you. Dig the boots and all that rawhide. Yummy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUSDS9pkA2Y
Red Dawn - not a ‘yummy’, bit more serious but kind of fits the whole scene - WE ARE ONE BUT WE ARE NOT THE SAME…..
That’s it for me. Next I would have to jump to something more fun - “Johnny” anyone??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFWPeVfWB9o
Lucky Duck,
Re: your response @ 19:59
Roger, 10-4, gotcha on the check-check there about broad brushing. How about the idea that we are moving toward the one artist, that will paint the brush? I ask, are we not already the judge, jury and executioner in the media, blogs, etc…?
Why have a court of law if the damage is greater BEFORE that day in court ( that can be postponed, etc..due process…innocent until proven guilty…..or just like the damn sign, IT will have it’s day in court-as it should..BUT just STOP and look at this example and what is going on)
Okay another song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYFMDhW1o68
I see my reflection in the window
It looks different, so different than what you see
Projecting judgement on the world
This house is clean babe
This house is clean
Am I who I think I am?
Am I who I think I am?
Am I who I think I am?
I look out my window and see it’s gone wrong
Court is in session and I slam my gavel down!
I’m judge and I’m jury and I’m executioner too
I’m judge and I’m jury and I’m executioner too
Projector, Protector, Rejector, Infector
Projector, Rejector, Infector
Injector, Defector, Rejector
I see my reflection in the window
This window clean inside, dirty on the out
I’m looking different then me
This house is clean babe!
This house is clean
Am I who I think I am?
Am I who I think I am?
Oh, Am I who I think I am?
I look out my window and see it’s gone wrong
My court is in session and now I slam my gavel down!
I’m judge and I’m jury and I’m executioner too
I’m judge and I’m jury and I’m executioner too
Projector, Protector, Rejector, Infector
Projector, Rejector, Infector
Injector, Defector, Rejector, Detector
I’m judge and I’m jury and I’m executioner too
I’m judge and I’m jury and I’m executioner too
Projector, Protector, Rejector, Infector
Projector, Rejector, Infector
Injector, Defector, Rejector
I drink from the cup of denial
I’m judging the world from my throne
I drink from the cup of denial
I’m judging the world from my throne, Yeah
So why do you support Mr. Fernandez’s right to put up a sign on the unstable remnants of a building he was ordered to demolish? Why do you think he should be freer to express himself than “hate groups”? At least the guy with the truck isn’t breaking any laws. Mr. Fernandez doesn’t even live in the City, and last I checked, the Resolution he is protesting was passed in PWC.
I’m not surprised that you support him, nor that your friends would be of like mind. So what is your point?
Mackie,
I still can’t beat your post of Animal Farm, as I still think that was clever as ever and had the best giggle, still enjoying it……
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8igSA8HdR_Q
LOL
Cheers!
Juturna,
That’s right girlfriend,that’s all we may have, to live on a prayer.. faith and optimism.
Never give up
es_la_ley,
Benjamin rocks… ohhhhh, what we can LEARN from our elders
Emma, which of those candidates stressed immigration and which stressed economic stability,schools, and arts? Are you telling me that Core and Wood weren’t the prefered candidates of HSM from the five (?) running?
No, I’m not a Manassas City resident, but I shop and eat there frequently. I pass the sign several times a week and it doesn’t bother me. Mr. F could have torn down the remaining wall of the house, put two posts in the ground, and handpainted a sign on a sheet and attached that to the post. Then we’d be discussing freedom of speech. There’s no guarantee that that won’t be the issue in the end afterall.
You can rail about it and the Council all you like, but you never answer whether you’re willing to squander tax dollars on another, doomed approach. What’s your solution other than complaining?
Other than people on the blogs, I’ve heard only three people (one from from Clifton, two locals) express shock or disgust with the sign. I’ve found that most people ignore it…even those at the farmer’s market. My sister was shocked by the size of it having only seen pictures in the newspaper though.
“So why do you support Mr. Fernandez’s right to put up a sign on the unstable remnants of a building he was ordered to demolish? ”
The remnants of the building have not been proven to be unstable or stable.
Lucky Duck,
You make a good point.
Mackie, I think most of us here support law enforcement officers, in particular, the Prince William County Police. Because their professionalism has come under repeated question by the ‘Resolution crowd,’ not for any specific actions but because it was politically expedient, it is more important than ever to give them our loyalty.
I think it is fair to ask you to not broad-brush all law enforcement. If you have particular issues with specific examples, by all means, go for it. Isn’t it enough that Michael takes cheap shots?
You’re not a resident, you don’t pay taxes to the City, so of course you don’t mind it. Many City residents DO mind, especially those who have had their own zoning permit applications denied for one reason or other. Believe me, people are not ignoring the wall at the Farmers Market. I go every Saturday, so I know. What do you expect them to do about it when they are there, firebomb it? No, unlike Mr. F., they put up with it and get on with their day, because THEY respect the law. Since the matter is going to court in October, all the protest in the world isn’t going to make any difference right now.
So you shop and eat in Old Town occasionally, so what? Why don’t you offer your front yard to Mr. Fernandez if he loses in court?
Bet I know the answer to that one: “But Emma, I live in an HOA. They wouldn’t allow it.”
What “doomed approach” are you talking about, anyway? The existing one in PWC that you don’t happen to like? Or ANYTHING that tries to limit or reduce the impact of illegal immigration in any way?
Thank you Moon-Howler.
For you, Mackie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMSbJGxuj2o
And for “The Office” fans: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbdGN9jy7Qk
I love it, and he isn’t even stating anything as generally offensive as Fernandez, and yet this got all of you so fired up. I’d have to say this is a case of ‘you can dish it out, but you can’t take it’. LOL, and very entertaining. Notice how we have treated Fernandez with civility, and yet this guy’s simple sign has already been vandalized when it came to a stop. Perhaps he should travel to Old Town and do a bit of driving. Now wouldn’t THAT make for headlines!
I’m sure it would be cool as long as he stayed out of the Haymarket HOA neighborhoods.
Mr. F should give up his bus seat and move to the back of the bus, that’s the law. Everybody must follow the law, without the law we would have anarchy.
What “doomed approach” are you talking about, anyway? The existing one in PWC that you don’t happen to like? Or ANYTHING that tries to limit or reduce the impact of illegal immigration in any way?
I’m talking about the desire to push your elected officials to do anything expedient, to disallow “preferential treatment” (gotta love that new talking point). Just what exactly do you expect the Council to do that it isn’t doing? You want to blame them for following the law. I thought the law is the law is the law.
Do you even live anywhere near the sign? I wonder if you happen to see it any more often than I do.
You really make an a$$ of yourself if you assume I live in an HOA. Mr. F’s sign isn’t in your yard. There’s no reason for it to be in mine. It’s in his and we’ll see how this interesting bit of history ends this fall - maybe.
Just checking in for the first time since the early afternoon!
Mackie,
Lucky Duck makes a very valid point, there are bad apples in every group, lets not broad brush our police department. Chief Dean showed real courage when he told the Board their “resolution would have unintended consequences”. He challenged the status quo during a time in our county when that took real courage. He was a true professional, always having the best interest of all residents in this county. He is a wonderful example for his police department and I am sure he is well recognized for his leadership during these trying times. My ride along with the police officer was a great experience, and if he is an example of our police force, we are in good hands.
SA,
did you forget the molotav (sp?) cocktail that destroyed the first sign by Mr. Fernandez?
Hey, where’s all those free speech supporters that were here when the subject was Fernadez’s sign? I distinctly remember many people here saying that although they may not agree with the sign they still support Fernandez’s right to exercise his free speech. So that same right is afforded regardless of the message. Hypocrisy!
Elena,
The sign was not destroyed by any molotov cocktail. A bottle was found near the sign but no damage was done. Face it, if an identical billboard stating anti Hispanic opinions was in Manassas you know damn well it would have been destroyed by now. Give me a break!
So do you have a problem with Mr. Rodriguez’s sign, Censored?
Bring it On, great to see you. It’s been awhile. You never answered my question about this:
Still wondering what you meant. Surely you didn’t mean to stereotype the ENTIRE population now, did you?
SA, don’t forget that the first sign was ripped and several popsicle signs with naughty messages were left on site.
Emma, personally I don’t have a problem with it. I find it an interesting local lesson in history, hate, tolerance, code enforcement, film-making, public discussion, David vs. Goliath, action and reaction, and a host more. The California driver could take a lesson in creativity from Mr. F.
And there was a lot of talk that Mr. Fernandez might have defaced his own property because he wasn’t getting enough attention at the time. I really miss the “no trespassing” signs that he had up there not too long ago. Delicious irony for a guy who doesn’t believe in borders.
If this guy took lessons from Fernandez, then he would have to put racist statements all over his rather benign sign to match the racist statements by Fernandez. So that is what you are suggesting?
Oh wait a minute, I just checked my deck of race cards, and I just realized there isn’t a card for white Europeans. My mistake, I guess Fernandez isn’t promoting racism after all.
Yup. I’ll agree about the “no trespassing” sign even though it was more than likely placed to prevent vandalism and for insurance purposes. The message should have remained similar to the first message in my opinion…he had a lot of sympathy for that message. I think he’s gotten some bad advice on this last message.
SA, haven’t you heard the mantra of La Raza: “For the race, everything, for everyone else, nothing”?
You and I are “everyone else.” Otherwise, they are quite tolerant.
Emma,
Well said! Lets put that on a sign, or maybe a few hundred bumper stickers. Freedom of speech you know!
Speaking of bumper stickers…I’ve yet to see a single one anywhere for HSM. Where are they?
Rick Bentley, I realize your remark was a long time ago, but I am curious where on earth you came up with the notion that the average border crosser is paying 10-20K a piece to coyotes. Even just a moment’s reflection would make that obviously not true.
This is from a 2006 article:
“Border experts say the price for Mexican migrants has quadrupled from $300 to more than $1,200 since 1994, when the U.S. last tightened the rules. One migrant told The Associated Press he recently paid $1,300 to get across.”
And from an Arizona Republic article a couple of days ago all about coyotes:
“The cartels’ shifting tactics show how the smuggling of people increasingly has become an organized business. Typically, a Mexican immigrant pays a smuggler $1,500 to $2,000 in fees, paying a portion up front to reach and then cross the Mexico border. Then a coyote takes the immigrant to a drophouse in Phoenix and holds him or her hostage until the final balance is wired from a friend or relative in the U.S.”
I found lots of other articles with similar amounts. Why state something so ludicrous? Even given (ahem) inflation in such matters, the average sum would not be anything remotely close to what you write. It would not make any economic sense. I bring this up only because it is similar to all the other ridiculous numbers one sees on this issue. Why the penchant for exaggeration on your side of the political fence?
Emma,
My point was that not all people in the City of Manassas think the sign is bad. I am a perfect example of that.
Again, if Mr. Rodriguez wants to go around town with that sign, he can do that. I don’t agree with his message, but it’s his right.
Zoning restrictions aside, lots of people have been “getting away” with putting up billboards for some controversial stuff for some time now:
USA Today cites a 2005 Coalition for a Secure Driver’s License billboard in Raleigh, NC that depicts a man in Arab clothing holding a grenade and a license, calling him a terrorist.
Rediff.com cites a series of billboards put up by Craig Nelson protesting ANY immigration (not just illegal) in Queens and Brooklyn, NY.
Pacific News cited a 1998 billboard on the CA/AZ border calling California “The Illegal Immigration State “(put up by the Californa Coalition for Immigration Reform).
I wonder what happen if Mr. Fernandez had rock-solid legal permission to have that sign up in his yard…does that mean that everyone would be OK with the sign? Am I supposed to believe that no one would be complaining about it publicly? I hear what some people keep bringing up about the zoning and the law. It’s hard for me to believe that it’s just about legality for those who claim this, when the first complaints we heard from some community members were about the CONTENT of the Liberty Wall. I can’t and won’t just forget that. I know I keep using this metaphor, but the legality issue is a convenient mask for prejudice. Maybe not for all, but for some…
Emma,
Just so you don’t sound misinformed, I thought you may want to know the actual translation of La Raza :
What does the term “La Raza” mean?
“The term “La Raza” has its origins in early 20th century Latin American literature and translates into English most closely as “the people,” or, according to some scholars, “the Hispanic people of the New World.” The term was coined by Mexican scholar José Vasconcelos to reflect the fact that the people of Latin America are a mixture of many of the world’s races, cultures, and religions. Some people have mistranslated “La Raza” to mean “The Race,” implying that it is a term meant to exclude others. In fact, the full term coined by Vasconcelos, “La Raza Cósmica,” meaning the “cosmic people,” was developed to reflect not purity but the mixture inherent in the Hispanic people. This is an inclusive concept, meaning that Hispanics share with all other peoples of the world a common heritage and destiny.”
I am not so sure La Raza has a mantra. Would someone please verify this statement from a mainstream publication. I have always found La Raza to be an advocacy organization for American Latinos, much like the NAACP. Sure, I have heard all the vilification crap and that is what it is.
SA, the thread was posted to stimulate conversation. I would say that both men were entitled to their comments as a free speech issue. While I didn’t take a position when I posted it, that would be my take. Mr. F isn’t being challenged on content, but rather on medium of presentation…aka..zoning violation. That doesn’t mean I like either sign.
Emma, you sure have made a bunch of assumptions about people here. Censored is about as far away from being in a HOA as one can get.
Emma:
Cute video. Here’s one for you. It’s not so cute.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsPZsPSa_fw
Scary video…I couldn’t watch it all. I might have nightmares!
Mackie,
Not sure I get it? New World Order has some roots in anti-semetism. I don’t know what was more frightening, the video or the comments!
Emma,
You may refuse to believe it, but I fully support law and order. However, I do not support the abuse of power in any way. We the People can play a valuable role in preventing the abuse of power by staying well informed and sending letters to our elected officials and involving the media.
But staying well informed is up to us. And using our participatory system of government requires that we get involved and sacrifice time and energy together to improve our society. Looking the other way and slavishly and mindlessly devoting ourselves to never questioning the law means we will continue to have destructive resolutions ripping our county in two.
While I would always advocate a non-violent approach to social change, the video I posted above is an example of the emotional frustration many Americans are feeling at where our country is going. Why is it that even though most Americans want us out of Iraq, we continue to stay? Why is it that even thought most Americans worry about securing the border from terrorists, it still remains unsecured? Why aren’t our leaders listening to us and responding? Ultimately, we have to expend the energy necessary to improve our society. Our form of government is a high maintenance form of government. Unless each one of us gets involved and is willing to speak their mind, our society will slowly decay.
Elena,
I was having a little fun with Emma. Maybe she’ll run the wine cellar now to break out a fresh bottle to calm her nerves. Raise a glass for me Emma!
Elena,
I apologize if you were offended. I certainly didn’t mean it that way. The New World Order is a conspiracy theory I don’t give any credence to just as I don’t give any credence to the 9-11 truth movement.
The first George Bush clumsily coined this term when he was president and the conspiracy theorists took that ball and ran with it.
I think what they’re doing is watching disturbing developments in the world and trying to impose a vision where there’s a secret society guiding everything.
Whereas I tend to see these disturbing developments as manifestations of a simple concept that has always been true: Power corrupts.
There is no secret society guiding everything. Corrupt leaders are the problem. They will abuse our rights if we let them. It is the nature of power that it grows at the expense of personal liberty. If you want proof, look no farther than Corey Stewart. He trampled over our county in an effort to catapult himself into the limelight as a warrior in the illegal immigration issue. Now our county will be synonymous with racism for at least a decade, maybe longer. Every other house is foreclosed. Neighbors eye each other with suspicion. All for the sake of one man’s political ambition.
Elena,
One final thought. You are an administrator of a blog that among other things, advocates helping illegal immigrants. Remember that half of the 9-11 terrorists had expired visas and almost all had lied on their visa applications making them illegal immigrants. Someday, after the next large scale terrorist attack on American soil, Greg and his fellow travelers will be the first to accuse you of aiding and abetting an insecure status quo that helps terrorists. They will savagely and gleefully call you an accessory to terrorism. Of course, the Gregs and the Duecasters are already saying these things about you. The difference is that, after the next large scale terrorist attack, some authorities might start seriously listening to them.
Remember that the black market in false documents created by illegal immigration allowed some of the 9-11 terrorists to acquire drivers licenses from DMVs in Northern Virginia. And we are situated very close geographically to the number one terrorist target in the world. I’m not trying to be flippant here. I’m trying to say you might consider being circumspect in what you say here or it may come back to haunt you.
House Resolution 1955, the Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorist Act, specifically targets the use of the internet to spread ideas. In other words, thought crimes.
It passed the House of Representatives 404 to 6.
Now it sits in the senate as S1959. And when it passes the Senate, the only way to stop it would be with George Bush’s veto…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wJsovPRTEM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjALf12PAWc
Leila, I guess it depends what country you are coming from. Here is an article that says going rate from Ecuador is 8-10K - http://articles.latimes.com/2007/feb/04/world/fg-coyote4
Rick,
I am sure it depends, yes. But your post seemed to be commenting on what is commonplace, and you said 10-20K. If you are talking about the country at large, a majority of people crossing the *southern border* are coming from Mexico. If you are talking about the illegal immigrants in this area, the bulk crossing that way are from El Salvador and other Central American countries.
My problem with what you wrote is that it gave a very strange and false impression about the typical resources of the typical person who makes this land crossing.
There were several other points in your post to contest, but this one was just the oddest.
Ecuador is in South America…most immigrants paying a coyote to get here are from Mexico and Central America. Longer trip, higher rate. The going rate is now about $5K, up from $2K about 8-10 years ago and this is because the crossings are more difficult so it takes more time for them to get here. Leila, agree Rick’s post threw out a totally unbacked up number.
Twinad, 5K from Mexico? That even surprises me, given the articles I found. But no doubt it has gone up a lot.
About the 9500 Liberty sign. Something confuses me about it. Am I mistaken, or is the zoning violation basically because of some bolster he put on it? Ie. wasn’t there a way he could have erected the same thing as a banner or whatever expressing the same sentiments and not been in violation? Or couldn’t the same sentiments be painted on the side of an existing house?
Wouldn’t most people who are objecting to this sign object to it even if it were not a zoning violation? The zoning violation business is a way to attack it since obviously it is protected political speech. For the people who keep coming back to it being a zoning violation, would you be ok with it if the structure were changed but the text remained?
Leila,
I should have clarified…sorry. $5K from Central America, up from $2K several years ago. I don’t know how much from Mexico. These fee’s getting paid to criminal coyotes are one of the reasons comprehensive immigration reform is so desperately needed. For the same amount of money paid to coyotes, immigrants could get a flight here, get checked in through customs and put about $4K towards an entrance fee to the US. If we are admitting let’s say 500,000 immigrants a year at $4K each, that revenue stream alone would be $2,000,000,000.
Its important to realize that this money immigrants pay goes right into financing MS-13. Just like the unreality of prohibition bankrolled the rise of the mafia, so does our unrealistic immigration system bankroll the rise of MS-13 and directly contribute to its lethality by giving it the financial means to expand it’s empire and weaponry.
In this respect organizations like HSM are the greatest ally that MS-13 could ever hope to have. HSM people make sure that working class people can only come here illegally because they refuse to give a pathway to citizenship and they refuse to make visas easy to obtain. It’s a great niche market for MS-13, provide to them courtesy of HSM.
HSM is vainly struggling against the unconquerable law of supply and demand. They are trying to create an artificial economy, no less than the Bolsheviks tried to do in the Soviet Union, and they are meeting equally disastrous consequences. The free market regulates immigration as it should. Demand for labor changes every day. It goes up. It goes down. What we need to do is make it much easier for immigrant labor to come here. When it is easy to immigrate here for work, no one will be crossing the border illegally and so MS-13 will be financially crippled. Isn’t the crippling of MS-13 what HSM claims to have as one of its main objectives?
Leila, I think the sign as zoning violation is the latest mantra for those who lost at having it forcibly taken down last fall. Had it been on a banner it would have stood a better test as free speech and avoided the building code violations. However, I don’t know whether Manassas City had any prohibitions against banners in the residential part of the historic district (and there are the other zoning issues cited as well as the sign). Mr. F could have gotten an engineering report that clarified the sign’s ability to meet the building code (I think wind resistance may have been an issue that needed to be addressed) but he chose not to do so. I think he’s going for freedom of speech. Even if the City wins in court, the issue may not be immediately resolved. There may be an appeal process and then, additionally, the City has to consider its image if it has to send its employees in to forcibly remove the sign. Not an easy decision in my opinion. And one made harder by the “law is the law is the law” crowd which is ticked at the City for following the law.
Thanks for clarifying the video for me Mackie
and sharing your thoughts on my impending imprisonment! O.K. guys, I quite this blog now! Seriously, I do fear the next terrorist attack for multiple reasons, now you have added another one to the list.
Also, I concur with you assessment of free labor market and MS-13’s misuse of our immigration policy. We are inadvertantly feeding the snake.
Also, the Loudoun County Gang Response Intervention Team (GRIT) recommends that the public not use specific gang names too much, as it gives gangs a reputation that increases their membership. With the photos of tags and constant mentioning of one particular gang on the other site, I worry that this is an additional way people may be helping to increase gang activity.
Elana @ 23:50
Yes “La Raza” share a with all other peoples of the world a common heritage and destiny.”. So do Celts, Africans, Asians, and Arabs. How far back do you want to go? DNA evidence indicates we all share a common heritage and destiny, the heritage is to a small group of people who came out of Africa, up to Kazakstan, and toward India, several times between ice ages. So What?
La Raza is today used to mean “the race” which “includes only certain people” and EXCLUDES all others who are not “the race”, and that only this group has some supreme destiny. Though its root word meaning may have meant “we are the cosmic people” as being something special, what about the rest of the “cosmic” people? I guess they are not “special” according to this group and your philosophy. This is just another hate group trying to claim it is better than everyone else in North and South America, and they should all “band together” as an ethnic group and politically fight for special laws and privileges just for themselves, and vote only their own “La Raza” people and race into public office just because they all belong to “La Raza”, THE cosmic people.
I smell supremacy and a hate group. It stinks pretty loud.
Twinade, Immigrants can already take a flight here for less than the price to come here illegally. It costs them the filing fees for a legal work permit, educational visa, or green card application, and air fare.
We are talking about the cost of “illegal” immigration, which only happens when people choose to be “illegal” and break our law, coming here ahead of others and without permission or invitation, they simply take what they want, and cause hundreds of widely documented problems (some with lethal consequrences) for the “legal” residents here.
Though most of you have mis-guided sympathy for them, I do not. They simply need to “wait” their turn.
To allow this “illegal” behavior to continue and not be punished is to invite even more “lawlessness” and even less desireable future consequences.
Michael,
You might want to read the following article, called “The Truth About NCLR: NCLR Answers Critics.” It quite nicely refutes your claims, and provides references. Please pay close attention to the sections in the point-by-point analysis about the translation of their name, and about solely Hispanic-serving programs. Where on this site did they say they are better than everyone else?
http://www.nclr.org/content/viewpoints/detail/42500/
I suppose that is my “cheap shot” moonhowler, as are all other comments I use to counter most of you who post here from promoting your own form of ethnic hatred, unless of course you mean my cheap shot was challenging Mackie to provide some “facts” behind his trite 2 word statement twisting the words I said out of context (his usual approach when he can’t think of anything better or more truthful) that “No” we don’t need to