AntiBVBL

How sad that we are so limited in our perspectives….that it takes a personal disaster to see someone elses situation. Funny, that’s what I thought religion was all about – your neighbor. Was not aware there were biblical exclusions regarding neighbor.

I would be delighted to see Mr. Stewart drop his alliance with Greg Letiecq. I can accept his stand on issues regardless if we agree, I cannot accept his relationship with that person so I reject him completely.

The last sentence quite sums up the purpose of Anti-BVBL quite nicely doesn’t it!
“They’re not really about solutions. They’re about building rifts. I was part of that, unwittingly or otherwise,” Pearson said.”

Terrific link. I feel a bit more hopeful for PWC today than I felt yesterday.

Amazing…it is so rare that someone in the public eye admits to being wrong, that I found it odd but also hopeful, as Juturna said.

Again, me having that cynical side, I have HUGE doubts that Corey Stewart is going to come to some of the same realizations. Ya never know, though…

What I do hope is that some of the citizens in PWC, Manassas City, and Manassas Park will take the time to examine their own prejudices. Maybe some of them could come to this realization. I have more faith in them than in an elected official who has built his identity on getting “less kids who don’t speak English” to be in PWC schools.

Oh, darn…I’m working myself into a tizzy again:)

You’re welcome, Elena. That’s my neck of the woods, so I know a bit about which I speak. I’m going to re-post my comments from the earlier thread, if you don’t mind.

Comments from earlier this morning:

Casual Observer, 16. July 2008, 8:27

Very interesting article today in a NJ paper about a man who created and led a “Rule of Law” anti-immigration group — and why he’s now left that group, and changed his mind:

http://dailyrecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080716/COMMUNITIES34/807160442&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL

—————————–
Moon-howler, 16. July 2008, 8:56

Very interesting indeed. Thanks for sharing this article Casual Observer.

—————————-
Casual Observer, 16. July 2008, 9:00

Thanks, MH! I also found the readers’ comments eerily familiar! I think FAIR may have its sites set further on up 95, but the township/borough decentralized form of government in NJ will make it difficult –and expensive –for them to get any kind of momentum. They’d have to have resolutions proposed and enacted in every locality, which is why the Riverside, NJ laws failed so miserably.

Mr. Pearson has been posting on the Daily Record’s comments page, and has some interesting insights.

He also has a blog on the paper’s website with additonal posts:

http://www.dailyrecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=pluckpersona&U=6238168de8384150af0d3e52ebe0c865

DG – glad you are back. Saw you took a beating on THE OTHER.

LOL…ok, this is fascinating.Mr. Pearson has posted a transcript of a voice mail the mayor left for him after he heard about his “change of heart.” My favorite part is where he rants that he paid $18,000 in “taxpayers’ money” for “Your” rally.

It would appear Mayor Cresitello was a bit too quick in throwing around taxpayers’ money for one man’s cause, and that he might have some explaining to do.

Oh…if only we could get our hands on the voice mail records for some of our own county officials!

From Robb Pearson’s blog:

Donald Cresitello leaves me a message
Posted 7/15/2008 8:03 PM EDT
After authoring my post yesterday titled “Transformation: One year after the ProAmerica Rally”, I received a call from the good folks at the Daily Record. I had a nice dialogue with one of the editors, who asked me about my change of heart, my change of life, my new feelings about the immigration issue, and how I feel today about the ProAmerica Rally I organized and ran last year versus how I felt back then. The conversation was excellent, and it ended on a great note.

About an hour later I received a phone call from Morristown Mayor Donald Cresitello, who was the featured speaker at the ProAmerica rally (watch his speech here). I was at the gym at that moment so his call went into my voicemail. Here’s what he said, word-for-word (PS, I forwarded the voicemail to the gentleman I spoke to at the Daily Record):

[Tuesday July 15, 2008 4:08PM]

Robb, Don Cresitello calling. [Gives phone number].

I wish you’d call me back. I am very disappointed that you told the newspaper that I was demagoguing or scapegoating this issue. I think you know that’s absolutely untrue.

It was your idea to hold that rally. I didn’t want you to hold the rally. It cost the town of Morristown over $18,000 for your rally. [Private citizen's name withheld] didn’t want you to hold the rally. Other people didn’t want you to hold the rally.

And in the end I only spoke at the rally because of the anti-American people who were across the street who pi**ed me off.

My position is very clear. It’s about law enforcement. It’s about public safety. It’s about firemen’s lives.

And I wish you would retract your statements that you put me in the cateogory of maybe some other elected officials.

I’m very pure on this issue. I don’t support amnesty. I do support a pathway to legalization. I’ve always said so.

And I resent the fact that you had some epiphany. God bless you. I am happy for you. But don’t try to judge my reasons for doing what I’m doing. You knew what they were.

And again I asked you not to hold that rally. You insisted. You said you were gonna hold it with or without my blessing. And I wish you’d call the newspaper back. I don’t like you damaging my reputation.

I am a pure and true elected official working for the citizens of this country both legal and illegal and respecting their rights.

[the last two seconds are muffled and inaudible].

It’s important that I clarify a couple things Donald has wrong here:

(1) I never said to the DR editor that Donald Cresitello engaged in “demagoguing”. It was actually US Attorney Christ Christie who used that term last summer to refer to Cresitello’s remarks during last year’s rally. I guess Donald hasn’t quite gotten over that. Anyway, what I did say to the DR editor was that I believe many people — particularly those in the anti-illegal immigration camp — use the issue in order to scapegoat immigrating people and assign blame to them for many of the ills the nation as a whole is facing. It’s easy to pick on the powerless and defenseless. I myself was guilty of doing so last year.

Another thing I said to the DR editor was that I believe many politicians who jump on the anti-illegal immigration issue do so for political expediency (especially when they realize a majority of their constituents feel strongly about the issue of illegal immigration), and that doing so is not beyond any politician, including Donald Cresitello. My remarks, though, were not a judgment upon Donald, nor were they disparagements of any sort. They merely reflected my rather general opinion.

(2) Donald is distributing a huge untruth when he says, “in the end I only spoke at the rally because of the anti-American people who were across the street who pi**ed me off.” Several of the videos of the rally that can be viewed on YouTube and elsewhere clearly show Donald sharply dressed in a suit and standing with all the speakers while the rally commenced. This is because he had agreed quite some time before the day of the rally to be the featured speaker and would discuss 287(g) (a federal immigration law enforcement tool). The fact of his being the featured speaker had been advertised as well as reported on days before the rally.

(3) I find it ironic that Donald complains now about $18,000 in costs to Morristown during last year’s rally for protecting citizens during the exercise of free speech when (a) in July 2006 he sought a 100% pay increase (nearly $25,000 billable to the citizens of Morristown who ultimately rejected it), (b) in 2007 he sought a $12,000 raise (also billable to the citizens of Morristown; that raise didn’t go through either), and (c) now tonite he seeks yet another pay raise to the tune of $6,000 because he simply feels he deserves it. Ironic. That’s all I’m saying.

The mindset I was in last year, as I already indicated in yesterday’s post, was far different than where I am today. Without going into redundant details, much has changed in my life in ways too profound to find adequate words for. Donald calls my experience an epiphany, which I suppose is one appropriate term among many to describe it. That he resents it, though, merely because my views no longer are in line with his is rather sad. Though ultimately Donald’s political self-image is not my concern. I do hope, however, that he eventually sees beyond and rejects divisive politics, and fully and genuinely embraces the common humanity that is the true heart of this issue, and all human issues.

“The beginning of wisdom is found in doubting; by doubting we come to the question, and by seeking we may come upon the truth.”

Pierre Abelard

Juturna,

Thanks:) Some of the dudes on BVBL were ganging up on me, but I can handle it. I just kept stating my case in order to refute the original claim. In the end, Greg left me with this…

“Thanks you for telling me what offended you. I may at some time want to offend you again, and this is rather helpful to know.”

I asked him why he would want to offend me or others when his blog’s stated purpose was to inform citizens about the issues. He hasn’t answered me yet.

I did write him again, though. It appears he might have had a change of heart. Though some of his archived topics seem to bash the gay community, yesterday he had an ad featured at the top of his page (on his “Go Figure” topic) for gay.com, featuring two men kissing. I posted and applauded him for allowing such an accepting ad on the site. Interestingly enough…I haven’t seen the ad on there since! Hmm…

Diversity Gal,

LOL! Don’t hold your breath for an answer…you are challenging him! How dare you!

As for the ads that you find at the top of blogs, they pop up due to how many times the keywords relevent to their business is relevent. So the more times they use the word “Gay” whether for good or bad, the ad-bot will place an add aimed at the concept of “Gay” hoping to draw people looking at the discussion.

I have seen adds for “John McCain” pop up on threads ripping the man appart on BVBL. My favriot is when people are bashing Muslims and the site is covered in ads for Muslimsingles.com.

I doubt Greg has had a change of heart or sexual preference, but you never know. Remember Ted Haggard, He was just one small example of how some of the most virilant anti-homosexuals are themselves battling with their own sexual identity.

Guffaw @ Rod’s statement! OMG! ROFLMFAO!

The world would be a better place if we all spent a little more time imagining the mile walk in the other man’s shoes…

Rod, that was pretty hilarious, agree with Cat Scratch. I won’t take it a step further and remind everyone of all the times the GregNCorey Show have been seen leaving the McCoart Building together at 1 AM. But it is true that often those who show the deepest and most virulent homophobia are afraid not of external threats to their heterosexual preference, but to internal ones….

As for this Mr. Pearson, I need to read more about this. But my first response is we need send him an invitation to come live in Prince William County. As I’ve said, there is no more valuable citizen in this town than a moderate Republican … and by that, I mean a Republican who is willing to put their country and their community before partisan interests, and the hate-mongering that becomes necessary for a weakened national party to build momentum in a what is obviously a Democratic trending year.

Just because you are a Republican, doesn’t mean you have to jump on every right wing extremist hate campaign that seems likely to garner votes. I know a lot of good Republicans in PWC who supported George Allen because he championed the Marriage/Hate Amendment in 2006. Now, they are beginning to catch on that the whole Anti-Gay Movement was just one of many precursors to the rise of the Anti-Immigrant Lobby.

They find it embarrassing that fellow members of the GOP, including sadly our Chairman Corey Stewart, are willing to resort to openly espousing racist notions like Hispanics are criminals and children who benefit from ESOL are undesirable parasites.

If the perpetual campaign ever stops, if the GregNCorey Show is ever given a rest, perhaps Corey Stewart will come to the same epiphany that this Pearson guy did up north.

Anyway, it can’t hurt to hope.

OK..Read the article but I was under the impression that the mind set here was that you all agreed to some illegal reform in the name of amnesty for the families that have already established themselves.

Whats the mindset here now? Seems the “vision” changes quite iften..

oops…Often..

JC,
With all due respect, what the heck are you talking about?

DiversityGal 10:17

“What I do hope is that some of the citizens in PWC, Manassas City, and Manassas Park will take the time to examine their own prejudices. Maybe some of them could come to this realization. I have more faith in them than in an elected official who has built his identity on getting “less kids who don’t speak English” to be in PWC schools.”

While I agree with you that “some” people in the community need to examine their own prejudices, that does not mean the “majority” of people in PWC against “illegal” immigration are prejudiced. I would also remind everyone here than “prejudices” exist in both “minority” and “majority” communities, and you can determine that “prejudicial behavior” simply by observing language and behavior that “exclude” others from their racial, gender, religious or ethnic political group, uses group targeted hate speech in their political attacks on either “majority” or “minority” class concepts using segregating language, aligns politically along racial, gender, religious or ethnic political groups advocating for EITHER privilege or disadvantage based entirely on numerical racial numbers balancing, diversity or (”one of each”) concepts that discrimminate against ANY group whose “numbers” are greater than another group when measured along racial, gender, religious or ethnic group metrics. This discrimination, prejudice, and hatred of others emerges whenever racial, gender, religious and ethnic group traits and attrubutes are used to define “entitlement” while ignoring non-gender, non-racial, non-religious, non-ethnic group attributes and characteristics defining individual identity and talent, ability, skill or performance. Hated groups and hate language and prejudice exists now equally among all racial, gender, religious and ethnic groups, especially since the laws today do not define any of those racial, gender, religious or ethnic group attributes or “exclusions” in their enforcement.

What people do not get here is that the “LAW” is a law, blind to any of the above, and enforcement of the law is blind to any of the above. The LAW discrimminates based ONLY on “illegal” and “legal” behavior, and the personal decision of “INDIVIDUALS” to choose to break it or abide by it. Enforcing the law based on “illegal” or “legal” immigration or supporting 287g which deports illegal alien criminals IS NOT prejudice, it is simply law enforcement and protection of the people from the people who break laws. Advocating that the people in PWC that support law enforcement, the “rule of law” resolution and the 287g federal program to deport illegal criminal aliens is not being prejudiced. HOWEVER supporting “illegal” behavior, advocating for lawlessness, and supporting only specific ethnic, racial, gender and religious group rights to “break the law” because they belong to favored and preferred ethnic groups, IS prejudiced and hate speech directed at “majority” groups for simply wanting the law enforced.

I have a solution for world peace. Simply make it illegal for “individuals” to align themselves along political lines of power divided into genders, races, religious and ethnic groups, who gain political power for themselves by shouting obsenities, hateful speech and threats against each other, until they become warring factions, finally put one of their own gender, race, religion or ethnic “leaders” into power who creates special laws just for them. If you remove this concept from people’s political options, you will eliminate 99% of all the war in the world, and 99% of the conflict, except crime for financial and personal gain. I have seen the root cause of war with my own eyes deployed to some of the most hateful ethnic and religious war zones of the world as a soldier.

I agree that Corey is stupid to make a statement about “noticing less english speakers in school”, as a result of enforcing the law. The painful reality is more non-english speakers have committed “illegal” immigration crime, than “english speakers”, so when you enforce a law, it eliminates everyone who broke the law, regardless of the language you speak, in whatever “numbers” they happend to have decided to break the law. That is not the same as targeting “only” non-english speaking people, the law is targeting only “lawbreakers” and people who support “lawbreakers”. The majority of people in PWC who have supported lawfulness, and legal enforcement of 287g have no such prejudice you claim, they are simply tired of the effects of law breaking on them (identity theft, false documentation, financial ruin, zoning violation, theft of taxpayer services, the additional theft of personal property by people who should not be here, the additional school, community, medical, recreational, and legal resource usage and burdens created by people who should not be here, the additional increase in transportation problems created by people who should not be here, the additional lack of security, increased driving without licenses, increased accidents and life threatening situations created by people who should not be here, and the additional murder, crime syndicates, and criminal gangs created by people who should not be here, etc, etc, etc.

Those who WANT this lawlessness to continue at ALL cost simply because they want more of their own ethnic group in the country are significantly prejudiced themselves, support lawlessness and crime, and hate those who are not members of their own racial, gender, religious and ethnic group, not caring about others, even if it means supporting lawlessness, “illegal” and criminal behavior.

That is lunacy in community ideology and political prejudice that ignores law enforcement.

I can’t follow that post either CO – JC?

Regarding those that doth protest too much……hmmmmm……

Greg can’t answer (hard) questions, DG. Actually, he just prattles ad nauseum….. and sometimes reaches an hysterical pitch. But since Krustis pointed out his Saturday night rants about two weeks ago, we haven’t seen any. Maybe he did listen.

Okay CO is this what you are referring to? This line from the article:
“I think we should let them stay,” Pearson added of those in the United States illegally.”

I don’t agree with that statement. But it doesn’t invalidate the entire situation. I belive that is the point of the cliche – throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Juturna,
The (hard) questions don’t have the “standard answer”.

Ah Jorge, I will add to that “or the rhetorical kind.”

Just saw a preview on Channel 4 news for a segment that will air on NBC Nightly News tonight at 7PM. NBC Correspondent Pete Williams will do a report on foreclosures in PWC, specifically the eviction process. In his interview with Doreen Gentzler, he said that he went on ridealongs with PWC Sheriff Dept. Deputies as they went about the process of evicting people from their homes after they’ve been foreclosed. If I heard him correctly, he said that some 3,600 families were evicted in the county in 2007, a 30% increase.

The news just keeps gettin’ better.

I just love the not-too-subtle insinuations about homosexuality on this thread. Isn’t it just like 8th graders to call people they don’t like “gay”? How clever, and how very insidious, when you are referring to two married men.

Ultimately, how very homophobic for such an allegedly open-minded and tolerant group, and how sickening

It’s a mighty high horse some of you are sitting on. Take care not to fall.

OK,

Let’s all remember folks how the blog authors flat out refused to admit they support any type of general amnesty. now they go and post an article that clearly advocates it. If there was any question this blog is an advocate for full amnesty for criminals then there should be none now. I’m honestly ashamed that people such as alanna and elena call themselves american, i think it waters down the name for the rest of us.

Are there any members of the Anti-Immigrant Lobby on this blog who can respond to the topic of this thread? Emma? Elvis? Did you read the article? You’re encroaching on Hate Bunny territory with your refusal to address the content of the article on which this article is based. However, I must commend Elvis for graduating to questioning our patriotism. You are now at the level of Hate Bunny 2nd grade, after spending so much time in kindergarten, I’m glad to see you haven’t been passed by once again.

Emma, I now pronounce you a Hate Bunny 5th grader, for talking openly about your homophobia. But once again, you are way off topic here, since homophobia is only relevant when we talk about Gospel Greg. And the subject of this blog is a man in Pennsylvania named Pearson. Try reading the article first, would you please?

on which this “thread” is based; not article

WHWN: funny, you accuse Emma of changing the subject to homophobia when it was you and Rod that started that conversation in this thread.

WHWN said “But once again, you are way off topic here, since homophobia is only relevant when we talk about Gospel Greg.”

You seemed to make it about Corey too when you said “I won’t take it a step further and remind everyone of all the times the GregNCorey Show have been seen leaving the McCoart Building together at 1 AM. But it is true that often those who show the deepest and most virulent homophobia are afraid not of external threats to their heterosexual preference, but to internal ones….”

Very clever saying you “won’t take it a step further” yet you proceeded to anyway!

Still, it was unfair for you to call out Emma for changing the subject to homophobia when it wasn’t her that brought it up in the first place!

Yes, I know, I’m just having fun with you guys. Yes, I’m off topic in playing off of Rod’s joke. For some reason, I find people who are afraid of gays and lesbians an irresistible source of ridicule. Even though the thread was about a newspaper article, I decided to lob in a few cracks after reading Rod’s hilarious post above. Somehow I just had a feeling that people who find it so easy to blame all their problems on undocumented immigrants would also have a problem with homophobia. I don’t know how I guessed, but it looks like I’m right, doesn’t it?

Anyway, I’ve been messing with you. Sorry. You can sue me if you like : )

Casual Observer, thanks for the heads up on the NBC News story about the Prince William County foreclosure crisis. It’s a good thing they didn’t talk to the Anti-Immigrant Lobby for their story. I’m sure Corey Stewart or Greg Letiecq would have told them the home foreclosure crisis is a GOOD thing for Prince William County, and the fact that our foreclosure rate is TWICE that of any other county in Virginia is a sign the Immigration “Crackdown” is working. We’d have had to hear once again that there are less students at the bus stop with brown faces, “Hoorah!” and that crime has continued to go down as it has during the past four or five years (only not as steeply as it did before the “Crackdown” but let’s ignore that little fact and trumpet the Anti-Immigrant Lobby, “Hoorah!”)

If you missed the story, it was about 2 minutes long and interviews a someone from the PWC Sheriff’s department who says it’s difficult to have to serve an eviction notice. The man who receives the notice is already in the process of moving out. “We’re almost done,” he says. The man has his children elsewhere so they won’t have to watch their dreams packed in boxes. He is interviewed without showing his face and conveys his pain. He says he feels he’s let his family down. Although the story begins at the McCourt building and is limited to PWC, there is no mention of the “Crackdown” and zero Anti-Immigrant Lobby talking points.

In contrast, I find it interesting that the Lou Dobbs Comedy Hour and Fox “News” can’t even mention Prince William County without celebrating the Anti-Immigrant Lobby. How is it that NBC News managed to tell the story as if there is nothing different about Prince William compared to the rest of the state … even though our foreclosure rate is twice the next worse county and four times the average for the state. They mention high foreclosure rates in Virginia. And, they mention that they’re in PWC. But they don’t tell the audience WHY they chose PWC to tell the story.

I’m not complaining. I’m thankful, in fact, to see my home county on a national telecast WITHOUT hearing Anti-Immigrant Lobby talking points (without The GregNCorey Show).

While Lou Dobbs and Fox “News” want the Anti-Immigrant Lobby celebrated at the expense of PWC’s reputation, NBC News doesn’t have an agenda either way and told a human interest story.

“rapd financial decline” my a**. Might have something to do with the Hispanic woman he knocked up.

Jim Leher did a segment (his are usually a bit longer than 2 minutes) on forclosures in PWC. Of interest was the impact of the military. Apparently many military families purchased homes two or even four years ago and are now facing the end of their tours. What they paid four years ago is in most cases higher than the current assesment. Guess this is affecting more segments of the society than we thought.

Juturna, I had never thought about the military. Many government and military folks who live over on the eastern end of the county must be in serious straits if they get transferred. That must be why there are more ‘dots’ on the foreclosure map there than here. This foreclosure business has long tenacles that reach places we haven’t even thought of yet.

Yes, I thought it was interesting. I may have overstated the purpose of the segment. It was on foreclosures nationwide. When they discussed PWC, it was focused on Quanitco and the military.

Interesting to get an outside view – so we don’t get totally wrapped up in ourselves and lose all perspective!

There’s also the human hardship factor that contributes to foreclosures that seems to be left out of the equation. The majority of foreclosures are due to the ARM mortgages. However, there folks that may have lost their job and/or become ill. These folks also can find themselves in foreclosure.
Again, the “human factor”.

Emma,

I have no idea if that is true or not, but you certainly are crass. His change of heart, according to you is because he “knocked someone up”? It couldn’t possibly be that he met someone that he previously thought to be the enemy and then got to know her as a person and fell in love with her? And now, subsequently has done a complete 180 on his previous stance? Again, like I said, I have no idea if he is involved with a Hispanic person or not, but the idea that his change of heart was because of “knocking someone up” instead of real love and feeling for another human being is a giant leap.

How about acknowledging that, if this is the case with this man, that real life and compassion, and yes, even love for another human being (regardless of their race and legal status) caused him to make this life altering change in opinion?

There are also many federal employees in the county, and they too can sent on “tours of duty” abroad. I think it’s important for ALL to think about some the tough times they may have been through.

It is real easy for everyone to get on their high horse and look down their noses over the foreclosures. Illness, divorce, military transfer, changes in employment, changes in financial obligations can all lead to foreclosure. Then there are the ARMs and people over extending. Who am I to stand in judgement of anyone?

No more crass than the people here who were insinuating that two married family men are gay. That was an inexcusably cheap shot, and to use homosexuality as a slam against someone you hate is, ironically, homophobic in itself. Funny how that slam passed right under your self-righteous radar, Twinad.

amazing

Yes, Elena, that is EXACTLY the point of the article. JC and Emma are trying to deflect attention from Mr. Pearson’s unique perspective on his experience working to enact yet another “Rule of Law” resolution, this time in NJ.

And don’t dismiss the readers’ comments to the article in the first link. Read them, and you’ll experience deja vu, for many of the words and thoughts mimic much of the HSM rhetoric we’ve had drummed into our brains at BOCS Citizen Time, in letters to the editor, and in the blogosphere. Words like parasites, invasion, third world, etc. I wonder if that isn’t more than a coincidence.

I’ll be interested to see what more Mr. Pearson has to say. I’m particularly curious to learn whether any outside groups reached out to him with offers to, oh, I don’t know, draft a Rule of Law Resolution.

Oh…and Emma, your comment was crass, classless and irrelevant. Since I didn’t opine one way or another on anybody’s sexual orientation on this thread, it looks like I’m free to pass judgment on your comment — at least that’s how I interpret Emma’s Rules of Engagement as you outlined them earlier:

Emma wrote:

No more crass than the people here who were insinuating that two married family men are gay. That was an inexcusably cheap shot, and to use homosexuality as a slam against someone you hate is, ironically, homophobic in itself. Funny how that slam passed right under your self-righteous radar, Twinad.

Michael,

I should have said that all people need to examine their own prejudices. As I stated in a previous thread, I believe that all people have biases and prejudices. They are in our nature; they are things we have absorbed over time through family, education, media, or experience. I believe it is our duty to constantly confront our prejudices so that they do not become discriminatory acts.

I agree with your statement that laws are laws. They are not people, and the people who create the laws, enforce the laws, and call for the laws are NOT blind to race, gender, religion, and ethnicity. To say they are just laws is to say that they exist a vacuum. The laws didn’t just appear out of thin air. The people who drafted them had opinions, points of view, and prejudices (like all people do). The people who enforce the laws are not robots. They can’t turn their opinions and prejudices off when they are on the job. I am not saying the enforcers are constantly behaving unfairly or acting in a discriminatory way because of their thinking. We should just be aware that human hands are all over the law, and they aren’t always perfect by any means.

Again, I cannot agree that most people who support the resolution are free from prejudice. I have read so many blog statements on the other site, heard so many people talk in my workplace, watched so many people talk at Citizens’ Time…all of this enough for me to conclude that often people pepper the talk of law with anecdotal evidence of people whose legal status they have NO WAY of determining. Many, but not all, have even come right out and said racist things about the Hispanic community.

There may be some people out there who are just thinking about the law, but I do not believe that about the majority of the resolution supporters. When I know that all people have prejudices, and that so many of us aren’t willing to take a look inside ourselves and see all of the reasons why we are angry against a group of people, it just seems unrealistic to believe that. I am not saying that those who support the resolution don’t have legitimate concerns; I am just saying that I do not believe that their support comes from a completely pure place (as some would have us believe).

Emma,

I started the whole tangent on about the gay.com ad. It came from the original conversation about how there was hope for those in the public eye changing their hearts/minds. I applauded Greg for allowing such a tolerant ad to be on his site, but given his past topics, which seem to bash the LGBT community, I think the ad was NOT his idea…

“I never realized that “gay pride” marches were supposed to celebrate a “military victory” by militant homosexuals against law enforcement personnel, but at least some seem to think that’s what it’s all about. I had always been under the impression that these were simply rather disgusting displays of perversion that sought to reinforce the liberal agenda of culturally reclassifying what is perverted as desirable.” – Greg L

I think that the point of some of the other comments I saw is valid. I know they may have been teasing, but there are lots of people out there who have defamed the LGBT community out of fear for whatever reason, an inner conflict or otherwise. It points out that this is NOT just about the law for some people. For some it is about maligning other communities as well.

I do not think that that anyone here truly believes either of these men is homosexual. I could be wrong, but your posts give me the impression that you believe homosexuality is something bad. You spoke of two married men…I hope that you aren’t saying that people who are in a heterosexual marriage can’t turn out to be gay. I have a lot of friends in the LGBT community, and that happens ALL the time.

OK, OK, I know I’m now WAY off topic, but I had to respond to those two things. I’ll try to be good girl and focus as much as I can from now on:)

I am not surprised but rather sickened by Emma’s insinuation that a former Anti-Immigrant Lobbyist had a change of heart only because he “knocked up” someone from another race.

First of all, Emma, your disdain for interracial couplings is not well disguised in your attempt to disparage this man for (gasp) having “knocked-up” kind of sex with a non-Caucasian person. Perhaps you don’t even realize that you are doing this. But this is how you sound when you base a hateful attack on the idea that the only human bond that can form between two people of different races is a sexual in nature, and not a genuine or “loving” relationship. This has been the racist stereotype applied to interracial marriages for centuries. Do I need to remind you it’s only been 40 years since the Supreme Court struck down Virginia’s law that institutionalized this prejudice? Perhaps it is no surprise that today, Emma, you espouse the institutionalization of another form of prejudice: the Immigration Resolution.

Emma, whoever you are, I don’t look down on you for having your limitations. At least you are wiling to express them openly. And I thank you for that. What your proudly displayed “limitations” offer to this blog is a window into the soul of the Anti-Immigrant Lobby. For you, race is still a great divide that cannot be bridged without discomfort and disdain.

And yet, you are on to something when you at least acknowledge that loving relationships (even if only the “knocked up” variety) can form between people of two different races, and result in a change of heart.

It is not a coincidence that the two County Supervisors who were most instrumental in neutralizing PWC’s Immigration Resolution have interracial families. It is not a coincidence that John McCain also has an interracial family. Barack Obama has a multiracial family. And George W. Bush’s brother is married a Hispanic woman. Not a coincidence.

One of the wonderful markers of the 21st century will be the realization of a world that I have long anticipated … one in which race is not a barrier for human compassion or understanding. America will lead the way in this transformation, as is our destiny.

Emma, you can either drag your feet or march in step, but this is where we are headed. Once you come to realize that a person of another race is every bit as human as you might deem yourself … so much so that they could even be part of your family … it becomes impossible to devote yourself to hating a group of people because they are different from you. And, to be more specific, it becomes impossible to form allegiances for political purposes with people who are hateful in that way.

This is why the true leaders of the Republican party both locally and nationally are not tempted to pander to the Anti-Immigrant Lobby. No one had to point out to John McCain that F.A.I.R. was a Hate Group. He just new. Perhaps because of his adopted daughter, he developed a sensitivity to prejudice that the Emma’s of the world have not yet approached.

The beautiful and encouraging thing is: it’s not impossible.

We’re pulling for you Emma. ( :

Emma, I do have to give you points for being sensitive to homophobia, which, you’re right, should not ordinarily be a laughing matter. But if you can’t laugh at Gospel Greg, well … what can you do with him?

Rod and I went with the gay joke for only one reason: Gospel Greg is extremely homophobic. Very often, people who seek to exhibit homophobia are overcompensating for an insecurity that they themselves might be gay. This is a basic truism, and yes, not part of the main discussion. But it is related because intolerance is intolerance, and hate is hate. Gospel Greg is a supplier and trader in both racism and homophobia. These are the veins of his political capital and he spends freely.

I’m glad that you are against homophobia. I hope you have posted on Gospel Greg’s blog to tell him so. But if you aren’t, as I suspect, a gay rights crusader, then please spare us.

There are only a few inches of copy between your accusation of one kind of prejudice and your classless and disgustingly transparent use of another kind of prejudice (see my post above).

WHWN,

You are TOO cool:)

WHWN,
There are numerous threads on bvbl that touch on the topic of homosexuality. Let’s not forget the CRUDEST of all posts, when the picture of the “fist dildo” (pardon the French) was there for all to see. All because the dude worked for WaPo. Hmm.
Talk about having a hard on for something.

Hate to continue hijacking the thread, but there is a perfect example of what we have been talking about in the just posted topic “Senators Want More Immigrants with AIDS” on the other site. Just in case you wanted to check it out…

Emma is beginning to remind me of the kid on the playground that just loves to buzz around from one group of kids to the next, stirring up something and telling each group what the other said about them.

Emma, you have declared your allegiances. Do you come here to poke at us with sticks? Every stuck a stick in a hornet’s nest? Know what happens?

I don’t mind making fun of Gospel Greg’s homophobia. But I’d prefer not to be reminded… ick! If we continued posting Gospel Greg’s all-time most offensive and hateful words on this thread, we’d be in the 400 comment range and without a proper discussion of the article this thread is about….

So, to try to redirect the conversation, here is my theory of where we are in history with the Anti-Immigrant Lobby.

They have seen their best days. McCain stuck a stake in their heart in New Hampshire. Without the lust of election-year partisanship, the movement will die. Most who supported it during its heyday will come to be ashamed of the fact, much the way former Segregationists are ashamed today. Robb Pearson is only one of thousands, perhaps millions who are fast on the take. The majority of former Anti-Immigrant Lobby clones will take longer, but they will follow suit.

Just as we did in past generations, our communities will come together, having learned from mistakes made on both sides of the issue. We’ll say sorry, and we’ll make amends, and perhaps be stronger for it.

Meanwhile, there will be a few who go down with the sinking Anti-Immigrant ship. Among them will be the true racists, the irredeemable ones, of which there are few. The others will be the zealous partisans who, with the sudden surge of power and importance they discovered by tapping into these veins of hysteria and intolerance, somehow found their self-identities fused with a failed movement that gave them their first taste of self-love. Some will struggle to let go, and find themselves unable to do so. I pray for these souls, and pray they won’t hurt anyone in their lonely spiral into anonymity.

You know, it’s just like they say about paranoia, just because a person is prejudice doesn’t mean that what they say isn’t the truth. It just means they aren’t going to say anything good.

WHWN,

Get it right! It’s anti-ILLEGAL-immigrant. Why do you keep perpetuating this anti-immigrant falsehood on innocent well meaning people just trying to maintain a lawful community?

Why it’s important to keep an open mind and listen to your “opposition”. Also good reason not to broadbrush folks based on one or two comments

Probably also why its a good idea not to do character assassinations on those with whom you disagree. It might come back to bite you in the ass.

WHWN, you took the bait and ran with it, and you didn’t disappoint me. Your response was entirely predictable, and it embodies an almost unbelievable level of hypocrisy on your part as well as on the part of your cheerleaders here.

I’ve had my own “epiphany” here, that you and many here–and especially Elena and Alanna–are simply using the issue of illegal immigration and race as a weapon to continually smear public officials and one blogger who is exercising his free speech rights. This is really all about character assassination and the carrying out of some bitter personal vendetta, isn’t it? One only needs to click on the “About” link to figure that one out. Someone got slighted somehow, and now they are on a mission. Someone questions that mission, questions some of the lies and nastiness that get thrown out about the people you seem to hate so much, and the vendetta gets turned against that person very quickly, doesn’t it? Every time I think there is some room here for understanding, the hatred that bubbles just under the surface here rises up and the usual suspects go into attack mode.

WHWN, congratulations for being just another tool in the shed here.

Emma,

Probably because I don’t think “accusations” (a stretch, because the way I read it, it was all in good fun “teasing” as Diversity Gal mentioned) of homosexuality is a “slam”. I don’t think there is anything wrong with being a homosexual…it is certainly not a defect in my mind. But thanks for pointing out that you think homosexuality is something to be ashamed of. I get it now. I don’t think the posters that were “speculating” on their after hours activities were serious, while your post clearly demonstrated your disgust with such a thought that a white man and hispanic woman could have a child together.

I think YOUR hatred bubbled to the surface in your post and that’s why you were called on it. I noticed I wasn’t the only “self righteous” person to point it out.

Emma, have you tut-tutted Greg about his posts/threads about gays? Have you chastised Robert Duecaster and clones for their use of the term “fat broads”? If not, your “outrage” is transparent. Which is the bigger sin in your book – poking a bit of fun at Duecaster’s name (afterall , he coined “fat broads”) or adopting a divisive resolution based on out-of-state emails? At least you’ve got to hand it to Robb Pearson because he showed the ability to reform his opinion based on gathering more information.

Haha. I’d be more inclined to consider the “others’” arguments if they actually made any. But instead I see a lot of wimps who race over holding each others’ hands and dropping such bon mots as “unbelievable”, “Every time I think there is some room here for understanding, the hatred that bubbles just under the surface here rises up”,” anti-immigrant falsehood”, “you’re as bad as the other site”, etc. They are hoping that by making these comparisons that they will somehow become true. An old political ploy. Haha – but they keep doing their drive-bys to wag their fingers and tut-tut. I’d be more impressed if they chided the Black Velvetas as well.

Very well said Censored.

Emma, 16. July 2008, 22:51
to use homosexuality as a slam against someone you hate is, ironically, homophobic in itself.

Yeah, that statement really makes me a homophobe, doesn’t it? I find it indefensible to use that sort of thing as some kind of “insult,” and I pointed out the hypocrisy of doing so. You all wanted to find a way to insult someone, and what did you come up with? The first thing that comes to your mind is homosexuality, because YOU clearly think there is something wrong with it, don’t you? Your twisted logic can work both ways now, can’t it?

Don’t you just hate it when people paint others with a broad brush?

“You all”

Don’t you just hate it when people paint others with a broad brush?

Haha.

Whether or not Greg is a Homosexual, I cannot judge. I know a homosexual couple who are members of “Help Save Herndon.” Both have children from a previous marriage and in fact, that may be one of the many factors that caused Help Save Manassass to break off from Help Save Herndon. Greg also seems to have a low opinion of women in general, but whatever…though I’m hetrosexual myself, I have many friends and co-workers who are gay and bi-sexual. Greg’s sexual affairs are his own business.

… but no matter who you are; race, creed or color, when you start taking action to force your hateful agenda upon a community, that’s where you have business with me. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but turning opinion into action via physcological or physical warfare crosses the line and in turn you will be opposed.

What the story at hand shows, is that sometimes the opposition works. 99% of the haters are motivated by some form of ignorace. In this case Pearson was given a reality check, a beautiful yet painful route of escape, of which I feel is directly awarded by a higher power. All in all, Pearson was “saved” from following a hate fueled downward spiral into self destruction, whether Divine Providence will see fit to rescue Greg or Corey, or any of the people who are following them backwards into oblivion is yet to be seen.

Censored, I’m glad to see you appreciate irony.

Emma

Have you seen the snake story on BVBL and that it’s being chalked up to cultural differences between the blog master apparently perfect yet narrowly defined culture and Asians???? Yet 45% of this years TJ’s class is Asian? Should all of TJ be worried now about snakes in luggage in the building?

I will support Greg’s right to post whatever he wants on his blog, however, he does not have that respect for others. He has lead the charge against arts, literature and theater on issues with which he disagrees and not just by disagreeing – He is vicious in his attacks of specific people.

It’s simply the how. When it comes down to it, we are all within a few degrees of agreement regarding amnesty, pathway to citizenship, deportation, gangs, blah blah blah….. It is the fact that this man’s approach – the how – is seemingly endorsed by some of our local governing body.

He can say what he wants, but outside this leeetle group of players here and on BVBL, no one is really paying too much attention. Most people in PWC don’t even know who he is. And it looks like he has been dropped by the media.

Going to go read more about Asian culture and snakes……

I’m not sure how the whole ping-back thing works within a thread, but when I clicked on the one a few posts above it took me to this page, which highlights the discussion on this thread. I thought it was worth the read:

http://americanhumanity.wordpress.com/2008/07/17/not-immigrants-indians-pro-migrant-sanctuarysphere/

Here’s an excerpt:

In yesterday’s SanctuarySphere post I wrote that the ProAmerican rally, held in Morristown, NJ, last year is where I got my first taste of the anti-migrant insanity. It was at that point that I decided to start American Humanity. It was painfully disgusting what I saw there. My post on this day can be found here in A Change Of Heart – One Year After the ProAmerica Rally.
symsess :: Not Immigrants. Indians: Pro-Migrant SanctuarySphere
Anti-BVBL writes about this ‘change of heart’ in One mans journey from “rule of law” to the golden rule. Anti-BVBL has to be given a lot of credit for their local advocacy struggle as they saw the terror that is “Help Save Manassas” and they got out and did something about it. They’re still doing something about it and should be seen as a model for how to take back your community.
Thankfully Morristown is not home to any anti-migrant groups and the mayor has all but ended his requests for any actions against undocumented migrants. However, there are still a number of groups in the New Jersey area and Pennsylvania set on pushing hateful laws through local government. One man who’d like to think he’s a pioneer on this front is Hazleton, PA’s Lou Barletta. Lou is running for congress so he can spread his anti-migrant agenda throughout the halls of our federal government as he’s tried to do in a small town where blaming migrants has taken precedence to actually helping the community.

Oh, and I have a suggestion to everyone here. I know Alanna’s stated policy is to avoid banning anyone from this blog, but this doesn’t prevent the rest of us from shunning or ignoring a poster. Emma thrives on the attention she gets here. Just like that parenting adage says, even bad attention is better than none at all. No matter how she pokes and prods, no matter how irrational or disagreeable, I will ignore her. There is no point in trying to engage her because you will never be able to lift a discussion with her out of the gutter. In fact, notice how she generally drags the rest of us down there with her. I say we don’t give her that kind of control over this blog.

Ignore her. It may take a while, and it will mean that her ridiculous statements and ad hominem attacks will go unchallenged, but this will be a better place when she finally takes her ball and goes home.

Yes, Casual, then you can sink into your cesspool of hatred for anyone who disagrees with you or tries to call you on your hypocrisy and inconsistency. Of course you would assume that I am in complete lockstep with “the other side.” That is nothing but intellectual laziness on your part that helps to excuse you for having to answer for your own hypocritical assumptions–”Emma disagrees with using homosexuality as a weapon, therefore Emma is ONE OF THEM.” You completely missed the irony behind what I was saying about Robb Pearson, which came AFTER Rod and WHWN’s attack on Greg and Corey, so I am spelling it out for you v-e-r-y s-l-o-w-l-y.

Burn bridges and put up walls as you wish. You won’t respond to this, but I know darned well you will have read it

Emma, I must say I admire you for posting here even after several of us have mercilessly mocked and obliterated your childish antics and almost arguments. Casual Observer, your psychological assessment is probably correct, and I commend you for not responding. But if we didn’t have Emma, this blog would be a lot less entertaining. She also provides information, inadvertently of course, that is valuable going forward.

Emma’s antics are a perfect example of why the Anti-Immigrant Lobby won’t and can’t survive in this century, not in PWC, and not anywhere there is a free society. There are far too many people with mixed heritage or mixed families or simple human decency for Emma’s world view to prevail. All the Hate Bunnies blend into one for most of us, but there is one thing and one thing only that we will forever associate with “Emma” … her hideously racist reaction to the fact that Mr. Pearson had a change of heart. Why, she ponders? Because he “knocked up a Hispanic woman.”

“Hideously racist” is a bad thing for our country, a bad thing for our county, and an unsound basis for civic action and/or local legislation. This has been my point since I joined this blog, and no one makes it better than Emma.

So please keep posting Emma. You have made those four letters, “Emma,” more than just a name. You have made them an emblem for the type of ignorance and intolerance that temporarily seized control of Prince William County’s government this time last year. You are providing a public service by demonstrating the tragic inanity that ensues when Anti-Immigrant Clones go off script. And you are doing it in the right place. Here, there is no short supply of intelligent and insightful thinkers to debunk and/or ridicule your specious attacks and foolish reasoning. We make an example of you. An example that is very valuable. It is the “Emma’s” of the world who will run your democracy for you if you don’t endeavor to get involved yourself. That is a vitally important lesson about our civic duty as Americans and as residents of this county. For this, Emma, I thank you.

You are the gift that keeps on giving. We can make an example of you each day anew. Despite all the valuable information that informs this debate and this blog, you remain a fossil from October 2007 that we can point to and say, “No, not that way.”

Juturna, Greg seems to be forgetting the local white guy who was bitten by one of his snakes and used up a large supply of antivenom. I can’t remember his name or the year it happened but I think he did some work on our house.

Censored,
Right. The guy lived in Gainesville. The antivenom was gotten from the San Fransisco zoo(if memory serves me right). If not mistaken, that the “snake charmer” had it happen again a few years later. Where’s Red Dawn? She dug up that story from the paper. I think that snake man was before Greg’s arrival in PWC. I think the snake thing happend in the 90’s.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~:<

HSS, Chris and Censored. Why are you digging up all that snake stuff.

Censored, I think you probably win for having the most weirdos come by your house in search of work. But then again, there is Billy, the drunken tree cutter. Did the snake-man leave any of his snake children at your house?

WHWN, the “Emmas” of the world support law and reason, don’t accept your sometimes anarchic view of the way things should be, believe in comprehensive immigration reform that is fair to ALL and not just favorable to Latinos, and hope that, with amnesty of the 12-20 mil probably on the horizon with the two presidential candidates, that it will be fair and will screen out the real criminals. How very “specious.” What a “fossil.”

Get a life.

So I guess all those “Emmas” will fully “support law and reason” when this “amnesty” you say is coming takes place after the installation of one of the candidates. Right? Because it will be the “law of the land” and the law is to be respected, right?

Chris, I think the guy did get bitten a second time.

Moon-howler, DH must have figured out who he was by his last name. Either that or the guy confessed. They probably got to yakking about the snakes around the house.

Censored,
I think he was living at the eastern end or mid-county for round two. You definately win for having the colorful characters wanting to work around your house. Although, MH is right about thought Billy dude. In fact it’s about time for that crew to come knocking on the door for the umteenth time in three years.

corr: Although, MH is right about *THAT* Billy dude.

Emma, there’s nothing “anarchic” about pushing back against the Anti-Immigrant Lobby’s use of prejudice as a political rallying cry.

The fact that you can make it through one, or even several posts, without a racist meltdown is not a surprise to me. It simply demonstrates that backward-thinking relics from last century can and do function in today’s society, and can adeptly disguise their prejudice if political goals require it.

The Anti-Immigrant Lobby is not only hateful, they are deceptive. Otherwise, they would not have gained temporary control of our local government. I’m not saying you ARE the Anti-Immigrant Lobby, Emma, or even part of it. But I do commend you for demonstrating the kind of mind-set it requires to be seduced by their rhetoric.

Bottom line: you repeatedly attack us, and defend Gospel Greg and other agents of the Anti-Immigrant Lobby, and in the process you expose your underlying prejudice. That makes you more of a help to us than you are to them.

Emma

I don’t hate those with whom I disagree, most thinking people don’t. Most thinking people seek out those with whom they don’t agree for thoughtful debate!! Why is it so hard to understand that it’s how Greg handles things that gets everyone’s dander up?? I can easily defend Greg’s rights to do what he does and to think what he does about illegal immigration. I can’t morally endorse how he does it. Emma, that is the key to most folks disagreements with Greg. HOW. There are wingnuts on both blogs that appear to have the intelligence of a fruit fly and need everything in simple easy to understand language and are not capable of discernment. THen there are those who could but chose not to.

I will ask you if you think how Greg does things and how he describes other human beings is okay with you. You don’t strike me as a cruel person and that’s how I view him. Most of the crud here is locker room variety – the gay nonsense. But it’s not a serious attempt to ruin a career which I believe Greg did to Jeff Dion. I am talking cruel, seriously cruel.

Censored & MH,
Here’s the link. Scan down to 8/26/95 there’s three bits of the story. Then go up to 12/01/1997 to Triangle, VA. I think this is the same dude. Note 6th bite by 1 of 10 venemous snakes.
Red Dawn, thanks for the link.
http://www.api4animals.org/popups/a3b_captive_animal_incidents.php

That time frame sounds right, Chris.

Well, Twinad, democracy works both ways, doesn’t it? There are people here who discredited the idea that the majority spoke when Corey Stewart was elected, because of the poor turnout on election day. But the fact remains that he won, didn’t he, and then he moved forward with what his voters wanted him to do. You don’t have to like it; you can be a sore loser and whine about it online, or you can get everyone you know out to vote and you can work for change. Did you bother to show up on election day?

Or maybe you prefer the Mexican system of dealing with dissenters, who very often simply disappear.

Emma,

As a matter of fact, I did show up to cast votes for the opposition to Corey and John Stirrup. And they moved forward on what a small, vocal minority of constituents wanted. Now the opposition is more well organized and has caught on to what HSM and FAIR propagated upon our County. Oh, yes, I prefer the Mexican system of dealing with dissenters…what a lame comment.

So anyway, that is why I am now contacting the BOS regularly to let them know that not all PWC residents are bigots and ignorant. Too bad Corey counts all emails to him as in support of him! I got several automatic messages from his e-mail thanking me for “my support” of his immigration “initiative”. Too bad my messages were not in support! So he goes around using the number of e-mails he gets in support of him, when in reality, he counts them all as support whether or not they are! Nice.

I don’t use email–automated or otherwise–when I contact elected officials, Twinad. I actually type out letters, sign my name to them and put stamps on the envelopes. Remember those? And I have sent a number of those in the last year, as well as made several phone calls, and I have gotten calls and letters back in every case.

I applaud you for your email activism, Twinad. But if you really want to be heard, you might have to leave your chair and your keyboard and at least use a phone or walk out to the mailbox. Then your email won’t be counted among the thousands they receive every day, and you might actually get to talk to them.

Emma
I guess I will take your lack of response as an affirmative?

TWINAD, I got the same thank yous for my opposing emails (typed out, not automated, and signed) from Corey as you did. I guess mine are tallied in support as well.

Check out this news article from July 12th. Charlottesville. Now not only has PWC enjoyed a 19.3% decrease in crime, PWC has save MILLIONS. Now, why doesn’t Mr. S buy the cameras for the police and get on Kettle Run school witht he MILLIONS.

Hope the link works, I stink at this….

http://c-ville.com/index.php?cat=1991704080566501&act=post&pid=12031207084029961
3

Emma,

I prefer to send my communication to the BOS via e-mail and one would expect to have it reviewed to find out what position the e-mailer has! Especially when the subject header in the e-mail says “Support Frank Principi!” I got an automated response from Corey’s office with hte “Support Frank Principi!” in the subject line that then goes on to thank me for my support of Corey!

I have spoken at Citizen’s Time, so yes, I have gotten out of my chair and made it past my mailbox all the way down to the McCoart building to make my feelings known, if you must know.

Emma, most of the people here who have commented today, don’t even understand what the term “democracy” means. They are transforming the country into an autocracy.

An autocracy is a form of government in which the political power is held by a single self-appointed ruler or self-appointed racial, gender, religious, or ethnic group.

Democracy is a system of government by which political sovereignty is retained by the people and exercised directly by citizens as “individuals”. In modern times it has also been used to refer to a constitutional republic where the people have a voice through their elected representatives.

Sovereignty means establishing a border, a common law, enforcing that law fairly and equitably on everyone, discouraging lawlessness, preventing “illegal” entry into your sovereign border, and establishing a common integrated culture from which your nation prospers and defends itself as an identity of “freedom”, democracy and common political ideology to support government by the people, for the people, not government by the political racial, gender, religious, ethnic groups for the racial, gender, religious, ethnic groups.

The first principle is that all members of the society have equal access to power (the majority exerts its will by individual vote, and the majority decides the direction of the nation) and the second that all members enjoy universally recognised freedoms and liberties. This power of the indivudual cannot be usurped through the tyranny of “factions”, which usually align agaist the people and the existing free democratic government in an attempt to topple it (a military or political faction takeover) along political lines of power formed by racial, gender, religious, and ethnic militant and political groups.

There are several varieties of democracy, some of which provide better representation and more freedoms for their citizens than others.

However, if any democracy is not carefully legislated to avoid an uneven distribution of political power with balances such as the separation of powers, then a branch of the system of rule is able to accumulate power in a way that is harmful to democracy itself. The “majority rule” is often described as a characteristic feature of democracy, but without responsible government it is also possible for the rights of a minority to be abused by the “tyranny of the majority”. It is equally possible the rights of the “majority” may be abused by the “tyranny of the minority”, who use political factions and elected officials, bought with corporate or advocacy funding (Political action Committee, racial, gender, religious, ethnic group political advocacy funds), to buy enough votes to counter the effects of majority rule. When this occurs the power is no longer in the hands of the people, but now in the hands of politically funded advocacy groups aligned along racial, gender, religious and ethnic group lines of power and the government is no longer a democracy, but a group led dictatorship. This is how most dictatorships and takeovers are funded and won in countries without democracy, typically in socialist movements by radical political leaders of these groups and “antagonistic visionaries” . (Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Castro, Mao, Ayatollah, Saddam Hueissen, etc). An essential process in representative democracies are competitive elections, that are fair both substantively and procedurally and not swayed or corrupted by group advocacy radical factions and criminal elements in the government placed there by these racial, gender, religious and ethnic group factions. Furthermore, freedom of political expression, freedom of speech and freedom of the press are essential so that citizens are informed and able to vote “entirely” in their personal interests based entirely on personal conviction. Increasingly these convictions are being swayed not by a two party “democrat and republican system”, but by hidden multi-party racial, gender, religious and ethnic group political system that removes power from the people by ignoring political and civil law. It is the blatent claim that the law does not apply to them, that permits them to operate outside of the law furthering the group’s and its radial leaders political agenda’s and corrupt elections.

Popular sovereignty is common but not a universal motivating philosophy for establishing a democracy. In some countries, democracy is based on the philosophical principle of equal rights. Equal rights really means equal law, and equal enforcement of the law, regardless of race, gender, religion or ethnic group “social law” which is often as diverse as the political groups. Many people use the term “democracy” as shorthand for liberal democracy, which may include additional elements such as political pluralism, equality before the law, “freedom from the law” and the right to petition elected officials for redress of percieved grievances as a group girevience, rather than an individual rights greivance, due process, civil liberties for groups rather than individuals, human rights for individuals, and elements of civil society typically operating outside the law, on the fringe of the law and outside the government’s legal influence. Democracy has its origins in Ancient Greece. It was a vote given to each individual literally, with the dropping of a stone into an urn. However other cultures have significantly contributed to the evolution of democracy such as Ancient Rome, Europe, and North and South America and more modern “political” racial, gender, religious and ethnic groups much to the detriment of true democracy. Democracy has been called the “last form of government” and has spread considerably across the globe.

Threats to Democracy:

Political Groups aligned along lines of power broken into race, gender, Religion and ethnic group can confuse the priorities of voters and, in extreme cases, can be used to sway voters in order to usurp power. This is the reason most dictators in third world sountires obtain and gain political power. They align with militant, religious, ethnic or criminal groups and use fear and political “propaganda” to convince the masses to join thier political cause. Many people have strong allegiance to their race, gender, religion, and ethnic group, more so than to their nation or to the democratic process. One need only convince such people that their races, gender’s, religion’s and ethnic groups moral values dictate something ( a community group think), or that it is the will of their ethnic, gender, racial or religious leader “deity” of choice, and they will blindly cast their votes for it without regard for principles like freedom, equitable law, individual rights and individual freedoms. In the best cases, this promotes the tyranny of the ethnic, racial, religious group political strategy to help themselves and themselves only (the dark side of democracy), and in the worst, can lead to democracies being replaced by dictatorships, criminal political elements, socialist ideologies, ethic group ideologies of hatred toward others no in their ethnic group or race, theocracies or “ordained” dictatorships.

Michael, you are right, but I’m afraid that the thinking on this thread will never go that deep. Many of the posters are just determined to be right, whatever it takes, no matter how spurious the lies they are propagating. Your thesis is correct, but this is more about vendetta than about intelligent debate.

One thing I’ll say for Emma is that she doesn’t waste us as much space as Michael. Does anyone here still bother to read posts by Michael? I’ll admit I reach for the scroll button….

But Emma, you’re so cute. Your position is clear in once sentence (like Michael’s) but you don’t then go on for another ten or twelve paragraphs. Thank you for that. Also, I agree with WHWN, you’ve done more to make our case than any single Hate Bunny or Gospel Greg Clone on this blog. Now that you’ve unmasked yourself with the “he had sex with a Hispanic” attack, we appreciate anything you post in the name of the Anti-Immigrant Lobby, which does only a slightly better job than you do at disguising their racist motivations.

I imagine Michael serves the same purpose based on comments he wrote before I started tuning him out. But because it takes him 10 paragraphs to prove he is what he is, I vote for Emma as our MVP (Most Valuable Poster).

Uncle…..

Juturna,

You did good…( like a patch on a smoker, trying to quit ,lol)

Why does everyone here try to keep referring to people as part of the “Anti-Immigrant” lobby? it is anti-illegal immigrant, not anti-immigrant. BIG DIFFERENCE. Of course, it is just another attempt to pull out the race card. I don’t think there’s anyone who posts on this blog that is “anti-immigrant”.

An observer,

Good point…damn it…here is another song……..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86PM0elnRU0

NGL, here’s a short one for you (sincd you don’t think a long paragraph has any valuable content, (and therefore expediency is accuracy and truth).

Not to single any one country out, but why do you think the IRP political party has been in power for 71 years, and is the main reason why “democracy” does not exist in Mexico?

Could it have anyting to do with corruption and political support of “lawlessness”, so that political leaders and “elections” can operate outside of the law?

I want the law enforced in this country, I don’t care what law it is, it is made by a “majority” vote of “individuals”, not by the desires of a minority GROUP to take care of only their own race, gender, religious or ethnic group all all costs just because they want more of their own race, gender, religious, or ethnic group in the country to influence political laws and votes along these same “criminal and corrupt” lines of political and electorate power. That is what happens in other countries (hundreds of them) that have “criminal” dictators and no democracy.

That is what is wrong with supporting “illegal” immigration.

Is that short enough for you?

Not Greg L,

LOL! I had just finished scrolling past his post after I read the first paragraph and then came upon yours!

So, Michael, I did read the second post…”you want the law enforced in this country, you don’t care what the law is”. So by this, when our lawmakers DO finally pass some comprehensive immigration reform that WILL allow at least some of those here illegally now to stay, you will be quiet? Because the “majority” will have spoken.

I hear a lot of moaning about the two candidates for president left standing from some people on this blog and “the Other”, but I must be a member of the majority of citizens, because I actually think America got it exactly right this time! I won’t vote for McCain, but he was absolutely the best choice out of the field of Republican’s. I supported Obama, but if Hilary had prevailed, I would absolutely have supported her, too.

NotGregLetiecq, I am honored. And most definitely, as you say, cute.

Again, such hypocrisy!! You let the whole using-homosexuality-as-a-weapon-to-defame thing go unchallenged, but are horrified at the “sex-with-a-Hispanic comment,” as you call it. I guess calling someone you don’t like “gay” was intended only in the kindest and most respectful sense, of course–no malice intended there, but, really, those of you who thought that was ok and then attacked me when I threw that out in response are showing your own true colors. Congratulations on your predictability. You would rather run with your assumptions about my “racism” than see the point I was making. Your sense of moral superiority is staggering.

I am glad you find my writing so succinct and valuable. Surprising that you would think that, considering your reading comprehension leaves a little to be desired.

NotGregLetiecq, add me to the scrollers. It’s usually the same whine from a white guy who doesn’t understand and refuses to acknowledge the reasons why ethnic, racial, and gender groups don’t think as he does. Laws are always influenced by the group that writes them. The laws may strive for neutrality but it sometimes eludes them.

A good song about debate and hypocrisy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DamvSHZKsYo

TWINDAD and Censored by, I also read the shorter Michael’s democracy rhapsodies, and I had the same thought as TWINDAD. His argument will be our argument after the election when Comprehensive Immigration Reform in enacted. The lawless ones will be the people going down with the ship (see WHWN above), who couldn’t let go of the power they enjoyed during the Anti-Immigrant Lobby’s run. So, as far as Michael is concerned, we can just wait until our immigration laws are fixed and call him one of the sane ones.

And then there’s Emma. I don’t know how quite to explain how prejudice works to someone like Emma. Can anyone help me? It’s not prejudice to mention prejudice. It’s certainly not prejudice to point out that those who suffer from homophobia are often closeted gays, or heterosexuals with gay tendencies. Someone, I think maybe WHWN made a joke that was not necessary. But as he said, it’s only funny because we’re talking about a Gospel Greg who is a self-declared homophobe.

But that think you pulled with the Pearson guy. You can’t explain how a Caucasian person could see this issue with a clear set of eyes, so you come up with an accusation that he had sex with a Hispanic and somehow got contaminated? That’s truly frightening Emma. Right out of the eugenics movement. Yucky.

Very creative, NGL, but very wrong.

And one final quote to leave you with this evening, WHWN and others:

“The name-calling technique links a person, or idea, to a negative symbol. The propagandist who uses this technique hopes that the audience will reject the person or the idea on the basis of the negative symbol, instead of looking at the available evidence.”

Emma, when will you learn to stick to your Anti-Immigrant talking points? You try to quote something you think is bright and look what happens: you get schooled again.

Emma, my God, Emma. If you didn’t anticipate the fall-on-the-floor hilarious irony of you, a Greg Letiecq apologist, quoting some pedestrian definition of propaganda on the very same thread on which you laid bare your racism for all to see … If you didn’t anticipate the ridicule you would receive for implying that it is we, and not your beloved Anti-Immigrant Lobby, who generate negativity and hate as an antidote to simple facts and best practices studies … then I must ask the question of whether it is too cruel for the sentient adults on this blog to toy with you.

Evidence. We bury you with evidence time and time again. This thread began with a news article that corroborates exactly what we’ve learned the hard way in PWC. That the Anti-Immigrant Lobby’s agenda does not benefit anyone at the local level, no one. Not even those who initially thrive on the hate and hysteria it generates. That’s evidence. Hard evidence. But your only response is to dismiss the evidence by attacking the messengers. You pick through this thread trying to find something over which to feign outrage and indignation. Then, when reminded of the evidence at the top of this thread, you attack the man who had a change of heart by accusing him of “sex with a Hispanic?!!!”

And you complain about “names?” What sort of names? You don’t like “Anti-Immigrant Lobby?” Of course you don’t. It’s accurate and it’s effective. The phrase derives from our realization that there is a lobbying firm in Washington D.C. called the Federation for American Immigration Reform (F.A.I.R.) that coordinates your talking points, your legislative initiatives, your “grassroots” tactics, and your media campaigns. F.A.I.R. was founded by white supremacists, is listed as a Hate Group, and does not disguise or apologize for its Anti-Immigrant stance. Thus, the term “Anti-Immigrant Lobby” is simply an abbreviation for a network of activists defined by these undisputed facts. Considering the damage the Anti-Immigrant Lobby has done to our county’s economy, its tax base, its public safety, its schools, its public services, its housing market, its social climate, and its reputation, “Anti-Immigrant Lobby” is on the nicer end of the scale in terms of “names” we should be calling you.

What other names don’t you like? Please do tell. Ask us about “Gospel Greg,” I would love to see the answers you’d receive.

WHWN, I hope you had a glass of wine to calm your nerves before you went to bed. My God, you were up until 2 am thinking about ME? And then you had the energy to write ALL THAT just for me? I cannot begin to tell you how flattering your obsession is, but, really, I am quite happily married.

YOU are the one making the assumptions, YOU are the one attacking and calling names, YOU are the one who refuses to see the point I was making, and YOU are the one who simply can’t let go until you have beaten this thing into the ground. You’re not burying me with evidence, or anything else, for that matter, in your desperate efforts to be “right.” I’m pretty immune to bullying.

And Elena, when did you EVER see me use words like “parasites” “nonhumans,” etc.? Is that really fair? You assume that because I occasionally post on BVBL that I agree with everything 100%. I can’t answer for everything every poster puts up there, any more than you can answer for some of the more outrageous and offensive comments that get posted here. It works both ways. But if you want to join the “Emma is a racist” chorus of lies, go right ahead.

Emma,

“rapd financial decline” my a**. Might have something to do with the Hispanic woman he knocked up.

Re-read. Comment.

What was your point, if it wasn’t the point many of us have taken your point as?

I can tell that you are very frustrated, Twinad. Try not to let it get to you. And, as I said, that comment was made in response to “I won’t take it a step further and remind everyone of all the times the GregNCorey Show have been seen leaving the McCoart Building together at 1 AM.”

But you’re not upset, Twinad, that the implication that Rod and WHWN were making is that there is something wrong with homosexuality, and that it is reasonable to use it as a weapon to try to hurt someone’s reputation. I have immediately corrected my own teenagers when I have heard them say “That’s so gay!” about something they didn’t like. Apparently, you have no such scruples. Remove the log from your own eye before you start trying to point out the speck in mine, or at least learn to appreciate irony.

Oh, of course! Anyone would think to write that post in “response” to the one that about Corey and Greg. How silly of me. What a lame excuse. I’m only frustrated that you don’t see your own ignorance. Just trying to point it out…but everyone else has done a good job of that, so I won’t bother any more. Adios, enimigo.

Well, I guess you’ll have to continue being frustrated, Twinad. Just don’t let it eat you up and blind you too much. The difference between us is that I don’t consider someone who disagrees with me to be my enemy–”enimigo”–as you so graciously put it. So go ahead and add me to your likely long list of people you have written off.

Adios right back at ‘ya.

Well, I guess you’ll have to continue being frustrated, Twinad. Just don’t let it eat you up and blind you too much.

Haha. Is that some more irony?

Greetings to everyone.

It was a colleague who informed me about this article, so I took a visit, read a number of the comments, and decided to offer my own.

The author of this article made mention that “what was clear to me, was that Robb Pearson expressed the feeling that he wasn’t even sure how he had been caught up in this anti immigrant frenzy initially.”

In many ways that’s quite true. At certain moments in our lives I think we all get caught up in something (sometimes benign, sometimes not) without realizing how we got there in the first place. But in retrospect, I can identify two factors which seminally contributed to the “seduction” which had captured me: (1) my own decision back in early 2005 to examine, experience, and participate in “politics” and (2) my close association with certain people whom I’d encountered as a result of my entry into “politics”.

So if you’ll indulge me with your kind patience, I’ll explain the details.

In the piece I wrote on July 14 on my Daily Record blogpage (Transformation: One year after the ProAmerica Rally), I wrote a brief backstory about a personal journey I began back in 1999. You can read the details on my blogpage, but suffice it to say that I began at that time a several years inquiry into all manner of religious, spiritual, and philosophical traditions. The journey was sparked by the tremendous impact my brother’s death in the summer of 1999 had on me, and the crisis of faith I experience as a result. I needed to be self-informed and remove the inadvertent ignorance and unqualified certainty I possessed as a result of the strict and limiting religion I had been brought up in. I ultimately needed to discover for myself an understanding of the implications of life and our purpose in it.

By 2004 I had studied and experienced countless traditions (most of them within Christianity), and in certain cases was deeply involved in some of them for brief periods. But there was one remaining field — one remaining human belief system — I had yet to study and experience: politics. And so in early 2005 I hit the ground running.

Politics, as I stated in the piece on my Daily Record blogpage, is really not so different than a religious tradition. It has all the gods, idols, rules, songs, liturgies, holy writings, and forms of worship that can similarly be found in almost any religion. And the flavor and fervor of devotion found in politics is peculiarly identical to (and frequently compatible with) that found in religion.

And I absolutely had to experience it as part of that journey of being self-informed. And in doing so I befriended certain people who became my “teachers”, and who I allowed to influence me on my journey in politics. Two of them had become very close friends of mine and we often worked together on certain political projects. Over time, due to their influence and my deep regard for our close friendship, I adpoted their political views and would involve myself in certain activist endeavors which advocated those views. And eventually, like any neophyte (or new “convert”, if you will), my devotion became energetic, my approach overzealous, and my objectivity skewed.

By the time the summer of 2007 came around, my seduction was complete. Thanks to my “friends” I ended up becoming one of the thirteen main bloggers on the Daily Record website (before its recent changeover), with my blog discussing national politics and social issues. Mine would end up becoming the second most popluar blog on the Daily Record website, and I would use that to my advantage when I decided to plan the ProAmerica Rally on Morristown (which did not please the Daily Record, whose management made the swift decision to end my blog one week before the rally).

By the time the rally was ready to go, I was fully immersed in the ultra-conservative fervor of “anti-illegal-immigrant” sentiment. I was at the peak of my immersion in politics, no longer a bystander, but a highly visible activist who gathered over 300 people to a rally (with 150 others protesting us across the street) which did nothing less than assail the weak and defenseless.

If I may invoke a Biblical comparison, I was similar to Saul (who would later become the apostle Paul) who at the peak of his radical devotion to Judaism as a Pharisee was joyfully persecuting the non-threatening and innoffensive Christians. He would later have an epiphany and experience a complete turnaround in his life and views, similarly as I would also experience a life-changing event and a resulting turnaround in my life and views (though my experience is not fraught with any religious overtones).

(By the way, I’m not comparing myself to Paul, of whom I’m in no way a fan. I’m merely citing a readily fitting comparison to better illustrate my own experience.)

It would take the tremendously impacting events I endured between October of 2007 and March of 2008 to compel me to reevaluate my life. It was far more than “rapid financial decline” and losing almost everything. There were other life-related issues, unrelated to finances, which crashed down upon me without warning, and in ways that were undefinably painful.

I would learn that my two close “friends” were deceitful and dreadfully inauthentic, and whose only desire for my “friendship” was to manipulate me, and my talents, for their own agendas. Albeit deeply hurtful to me, it was a sobering revelation. And a healing one.

I discovered that my journey in politics had to end; that the seductive nature of politics (and patriotism) was akin to the serpent’s craftiness in the Garden of Eden, and that its poison inhibits all sense of genuine humanity while at the same time convincing us that by eating its fruit our “eyes will be opened”. There’s a saying: “If the devil can’t seduce you, he’ll distract you.” Politics is a seduction, and a distraction.

After accepting refuge with my family early this year, I reflected deeply. And when I made the decision to abandon politics and abandon all my unhealthy associations, I began to see more clearly. I began to see that the more important thing — the most paramount thing above all — is our common humanity. It was a vision I’d actually embraced shortly before my engagement in politics in 2005, but which I unwittingly relinquished during my terrible journey through the starving and distracting desert of patriotism with all its vile temptations.

But having finally — and thankfully — completed that journey through the “desert”, out of which I’ve emerged far more healthy and far more blessed than I’ve ever been in my life, I’m now prepared and devoted to vigorously advancing our common humanity, rejecting qualities which seek division and not unity, which are destructive and not creative, and which dehumanize rather than humanize.

And my ultimate goal: to seek and build the Oneness — both within ourselves, with one another, and with our world — that I believe is Creation’s plan for all of us, where compassion, mercy, and grace are our sole rule of law.

Emma, I am glad to hear your crusade for equality for gays and lesbians goes beyond your ferocious defense of Greg Letiecq. While racist rants are not the ideal rubuttal to an imagined insult to the gay community, I do give you an A for effort.

Now if you’ll just put the same energy you put into your racist rants into lobbying your Congressional representatives for Hate Crimes legislation that protects the gay community, you could actually do some good for the one minority you seem interested in defending rather than scapegoating.

Or, if you’re just looking for excuses to proove your undying allegiance to Gospel Greg, perhaps this will be an intrduction for you to an additional pursuit.

If it’s something in between, I sincerely hope that the same decency that causes you to be a good parent to your children will eventually lead you to a change of heart with regard to Hispanics. Surely, if you give them a chance you will see they are no more deserving of scapegoating or hate-mongering than gays or lesbians.

Until such time, as you continue your gay rights crusade, perhaps you could save your scolding for those who oppose gay rights, like your beloved Gospel Greg, instead of those who point out the familiar psychological profile of those who seek to “prove heterosexuality” by railing against fellow gays and lesbians.

WHWN, you really ARE obsessed. Really, there are plenty of other women (or men) out there

WHWN,

Don’t bother anymore with Emma. She has had to back pedal from her comment and say she was “responding to the homosexual slams”. But if you re-read her two sentence comment, it is crystal clear that she is responding to the article because she says “financial problems, my A@@, he knocked up a Hispanic. Her racist comment was 100% directed at the article and only after she was called on it did she say, “oh, I only posted it in response to the attack on the wonderful family men, Greg and Corey!” Yeah, right! Sure it was.

Twinad, now you’re sounding desperate. Chill.

Emma does seem to delight in being the butt of our jokes. So to answer the question above, No I don’t think it cruel for the sentient adults to toy with her. My feeling is: better it be a member of the community than an outsider who came here just to poison our social environment for political purpuses. Emma, you go girl!

How do you feel about Obama vs. McCain?

The only “joke” here is how much Twinad, NGL and WHWN clearly have in common with the people they despise. There is no limit to how low you will go to get the last word, is there?

Learn from the Emperor:

“Good, I can feel your anger. Take your weapon. Strike me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!”

It looks like you are well on your way. Have a beautiful weekend.

Neat trick, Elena. That post wasn’t there earlier.

Thanks for pointing it out, Elena. I always forget that new posters get put into moderation and their posts don’t appear at the end of the thread. Had you not said something, I would never have seen it.

Mr. Pearson, if you check back in, I hope you will weigh in on some of the other threads, too!

I hear deep breathing. Emma, do you think that Anakin actually knew he had gone over to the dark side? I often wonder that about you. Argue you will not.

Robb Pearson, if that is REALLY you, I am stunned at your vanity, your utter hubris in comparing your journey with that of Saint Paul. Your last paragraph is an incredible blasphemy, to say the least. Do you now compare yourself to Jesus?

You sold out your friends and supporters at what price? 30 pieces of silver? I love the way you put “politics” in parentheses as if it is all filthy, and you have nothing but purity of purpose, don’t you? It smells a lot like vendetta. You will fit in well here.

Emma, it wasn’t there earlier because it was in moderation as a first time post. This is standard for all first time posts.

I forgot about that, MH, you’re right.

I can’t believe this is for real, though. His posting is so astoundingly arrogant. I would think someone who has had an “epiphany” would have slightly more humility.

Robb, I want you to understand that your beautifully written testimonial was in moderation for many hours today. That is why the comments that follow don’t seem to respond. It wasn’t there before. And don’t mind Emma. She’s our pet anti-immigrant clone. We just keep her around for a good laugh. Hope to see you over on the new thread. Perhaps you could quote back your entire testimonial there, since it was quoted only in part.

WHWN, it’s good to see that you are learning the ways of St. Paul from Gospel Robb. Don’t let your saintly hatred of me eat you up too much.

Actually, there’s a fine line between love and hate, and you can’t seem to let go of me, can you?

As I’ve always said, Emma, your childish ramblings here do more to illustrate the nonsensical, deceived futility of the Anti-Immigrant Lobby than any single contributor here. I don’t hate you, I love you. Keep it up.

Awww, gee, I feel so warm and fuzzy inside, now that you’re being so nice. You must be preparing yourself for Gospel Robb’s second coming on this thread.

Emma, I’ll be honest with you. None of us know you as a person. None of us really love you, or hate you for that matter, as a person. If you were a real person to us, we would not mock you so mercilessly, please know that. You may sound like Gospel Greg, but you have not done the damage that he has done to our community, not nearly.

But because you are anonymous, and you are, well, “Emma” you are very useful to us. For this, we love/hate … not really you … but the character you’ve created. After all, who knows if the outrageous things you type here are really your beliefs, or someone else’s regurgitated here just to test them out and see how you (the real person) like the response you get. I doubt very seriously that you would say most of these things in real life without at least testing them in a virtual public square. For you I imagine this is a form of intellectual experimentation, much they way teenagers experiment with social identities. In this endeavor, we are happy to oblige you.

In addition, for my purposes, and I imagine the purposes of many who contribute to this blog, you are the most useful emblem of the Anti-Immigrant Lobby imaginable. Of our resident trolls, you are by far the easiest to debunk. We don’t have to waste any time scrolling through eighty paragraphs hoping to find a point, we don’t have to contend with any amount of expertise or research, let alone wit. “Emma” is pure adolescent angst mixed with prejudice and partisan fervor. To have “Emma” be the loudest representative of the Anti-Immigrant Lobby on this blog is the gift that keeps on giving.

Of course there are more sophisticated arguments to be made on behalf of the Anti-Immigrant Lobby, but you conveniently convey none of them. This is why we love “Emma” the character. As for the person behind the keyboard, we are indifferent until we have some way to truly know you.

WhyHereWhyNow . . .

Thank you for your kind words. I completely understand about the delay in posting my comments. Not a problem at all.

Emma . . .

In case you missed it, immediately after my mention of Paul I stated: “By the way, I’m not comparing myself to Paul, of whom I’m in no way a fan. I’m merely citing a readily fitting comparison to better illustrate my own experience.”

As for Jesus . . . hey, we all have role models whome we aspire to emulate. Jesus happens to be mine (PS, I’m not a Christian, but I’m a huge fan of Jesus of Nazareth).

To everyone . . .

Yes, I’m the real Robb Pearson. Short of giving out my email address, feel free to contact me through my blogpage at the DailyRecord.com website.

Forgive me. I’m attempting to see if some basic HTML formatting works on this site.

I’m hoping the “quote” tag works.

I found a direct link to Robb’s blog:

http://www.dailyrecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=PluckPersona&U=6238168de8384150af0d3e52ebe0c865&plckController=PersonaBlog&plckScript=personaScript&plckElementId=personaDest&plckPersonaPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3a6238168de8384150af0d3e52ebe0c865Post%3a5ca8ff19-7fca-418d-81aa-ef452910641f&sid=sitelife.dailyrecord.com

Elena,

Thanks for asking. I wanted to ask too. Robb, If you don’t mind

Elena, about Gospel Robb’s religious upbringing:

In my youth I was an extremely devout Jehovah’s Witness, possessing an unqualified sense of unshakable certainty regarding life. But having abandoned my Jehovah’s Witness faith years prior (an elitist and exclusionary faith, by the way, which strongly discourages inquiring about other faiths, beliefs, or life philosophies),

Hope there are no Jehovah’s Witnesses here to be offended. Nope, this guy is as open-minded and tolerant as they come. Just like Saint Paul, really.

Emma,

You do bring up a good point about what offends and one that Mackie was trying to make on the thread ” The flip side of the sign” with his comments on July 18th @ 2:17.

I happen to share the concern and all thoughts (beliefs of religion, etc.) are at risk:

“House Resolution 1955, the Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorist Act, specifically targets the use of the internet to spread ideas. In other words, thought crimes.

It passed the House of Representatives 404 to 6.

Now it sits in the senate as S1959. And when it passes the Senate, the only way to stop it would be with George Bush’s veto…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wJsovPRTEM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjALf12PAWc“

More wisdom about Jehovah’s Witnesses from Gospel Robb:

Thursday, February 8, 2007

Posted by Robb Pearson at 12:11 PM

Silent Lambs

Most people are shocked to discover that the Watchtower society — the religion of Jehovah’s Witnesses — is a haven for pedophiles. Thousands of Jehovah’s Witness children have been sexually abused — and many undoubtedly still continue to be abused — and most of them never see justice because of the religious policies of the Governing Body which reject the rules of “the world” in favor of the overriding rules of God.
silentlambs.org/silentlambsrobpearson.htm

Talk about painting with a broad brush. Tell us what you think about the Catholic Church now, Robb.

Why is Emma reading every blog post Robb ever wrote in a hopeless effort to discredit him? Why is Emma grasping at straws, desperate to some a way to counter Robb Pearson’s perspective?

First of all, consider her impossible situation, hampered by a complete lack of knowledge on the issue beyond the basic Anti-Immigrant Lobby talking points. These very talking points form the rudimentary foundations of Robb’s knowledge, which now so vastly out-paces Emma’s talking points that there is no comparison. Emma’s missing ingredient, of course, is the capacity for free thought. But that capacity, I sense, is growing in her. That is why her denial stage is so vehement. The truth is dawning on her but she doesn’t have the guts to admit she was wrong.

She finds Robb especially threatening because he demonstrates the courage she lacks.

This is precisely why I admire him. He is proving that a man with courage and intellectual integrity can not only change his mind and admit a mistake, he can help guide others to do the same.

This is a greatest challenge yet to Emma’s Anti-Immigrant Lobby talking point bubble, and a reminder of her own cowardice in the face of an expansive and rigorous debate. As a member of this blog, she is being confronted with information that pops that bubble on a daily basis, and she is finding that she lacks the very courage that has made Robb a hero in the eyes of all who posses it.

Admit you were wrong Emma. It will be a great weight off your shoulders, and the best contribution you could make to society, other than being a mom of course.

Yes, Twinad 20:42 I will support the majority voice. I will also be one of the people who want the current “illegal” immigrants deported, and will cast my vote for that, your vote if cast in opposite will nullify mine, but I can also say I will try to convince many others that “illegal” immigration hurts everyone, and helps no-one”, so that the entire voice of the majority vote is in support of my view rather than yours, that “illegal immigration hurts no-one”.

Robb 10:03

I applaud you on your journey toward a deeper understanding you began in 1999. I began mine in 1981, and am still learning. Imagine how much more you will come to understand the creator wishes for our lives in the next 20 years of study.

I am pleased with your discovery of “common humanity”. Common meaning “ALL” humanity, not just certain racial, gender, religious and ethnic group humanity, in my understanding a concept better understood by the people who wrote such laws and concepts wiser than me. I too fight against such concepts that are divisive, and not unifying, especially applied to races, genders, religions and ethnic group rhetoric.

“But having finally — and thankfully — completed that journey through the “desert”, out of which I’ve emerged far more healthy and far more blessed than I’ve ever been in my life, I’m now prepared and devoted to vigorously advancing our common humanity, rejecting qualities which seek division and not unity, which are destructive and not creative, and which dehumanize rather than humanize.

And my ultimate goal: to seek and build the Oneness — both within ourselves, with one another, and with our world — that I believe is Creation’s plan for all of us, where compassion, mercy, and grace are our sole rule of law.

I too believe that the most important “rules” are those that follow compassion, mercy and grace, and extend that concept to mean it must also be applied equally on all but not in support of destruction,division, suffering, and lawlessness as it effect all others, and the actions of all on all others.

I recently watched a film by a man in Afganistan, named “Reza”, who has found this same “common humanity” in dealing with the “lawful” Afgani’s and the “unlawful” Afganis. He has come to recognize that “common humanity” cannot be applied to all the same, but to each as he deserves, based on the impact his behavior has on all others.

His weapon is the truth, and the media outlets of truth, and pictures which tell a thousand words. He identifies those people in his land that are “good” and those people in his land that are “bad” and applies the law the same to all of them, but not the same compassion, mercy and grace to all of them as many who cause the misery his pictures depict as an effect of racial, gender, religious and ethnic wars, do not deserve an identical application of this human compassion. He has to make daily decisions regarding who is right (the religious, racial, or ethnic radicals), or the innocent victims of their law-breaking and claim that only their people, their race and their religion deserve the “bounties and justice” of God.

He is a man who has discovered that not “all” people of cruelty, lawlessness, ill-will action and of “illegal” behavior have a “common humanity”. There is no ideal middle ground that all humans use toward all others, some have more humanityt, some have less. Some are “illegal” and cause pain and suffering, some are “legal” and prevent pain and suffering, by preventing people of less “common hunamity” from harming and hurting others of “more common humanity”.

It is for this reason my personal discovery of “common humaniy” is that it is anything but “common”. It has humans you must protect from humans who would harm.

That is the way I deal with the “illegal” immigration effect, and the “legal” immigration effect. These two groups of people who make a choice on which side they stand on “common humanity” cause a greater and lessor harm on each other. My battle is against those who cause harm misery and suffering on others, based on the individual harm each does to the other, the effect on the entire community, and the individual benefit each gives to the other. In my experience, being on the “legal” side of immigration is more merciful, compassionate and graceful, than being on the “illegal” side of immigration when you look at the impact of lawlessness on the entire community of “common humanity”. I think of none in isolation of the other. I can also find scripture to support this compassionate view toward ALL mankind, to support taking care of the “greater good” as being more important than taking care of the “lessor good” I simply disagree with the assumption of those who often seek “a common humanity” that “illegal immigration harms no-one” and “deportation harms everyone”.

Reza and his pictures, shows the answer to what happens if you ignore the need to protect the innocent from the lawbreakers.

Michael,
Please clarify which Presidential candidate will you be casting your vote for that wants to deport the illegals? I just mention this to point out that neither is supporting this policy.

Robb,
Thanks again for joining our conversation, your quoting of scripture and writing style is so desperately needed.

On 19. July 2008, 23:56, Elena stated:

Robb,
If you don’t want to share, I understand, but I was wondering, do you belong to any formal religious group?

Hi Elena. I have no problem sharing. The answer is no, I don’t belong to any formal religious group. I occasionally fellowship with the local Unitarian-Universalists at their church near me, but I usually only do so when it involves some type of social justice or human justice endeavor. My attendance and participation is otherwise quite minimal.

For the most part, though, I am quite independent and tend to describe myself as a Jesus-loving non-Christian.