AntiBVBL

Thanks for posting that Alanna. Just in case you all missed it, this little speech was made on June 5th, 2007 when the Anti-Immigrant Lobby was just getting started in Prince William County and the rest of us were about to turn on Channel 23 and say what the hell hit us?!

This speech was made when McCain was in last place and probably the only person in the U.S. who thought he had a chance of being the nominee.

Love how it cuts to that bigot hypocrite Tom Tancredo gnashing his teeth! Nash your teeth into retirement, bigot.

oops. gnash, I meant. but Tancredo is still the biggest embarrassment the GOP has seen since David Duke, and that includes G.W. Bush.

Don’t vote McCain. He will unnecessarily attack Iran, which will unite the Shia and the Sunni wings of the Islamic faith against us. We’re already going to war with the Sunni while the Shia stand mostly on the sidelines. Do we really want to pick a fight with the remainder of the Islamic world? For what purpose? Remember, in Iraq, the only time the Sunni and the Shia were working close together is when they were killing us in Najaf and Fallujah.

Because he is a war hero, McCain appears to be someone who knows how to protect America. This is an illusion. He is a Cold War warrior. But the cold war is over. This is a new fight. There are no rules, there are no boundaries to this fight like there were during the cold war. Mutually Assured Destruction will not work. He will attack Iran and this war will spin out of control.

Obama sucks. McCain is a nightmare.

McCain is a genius!!! He panders to hispanics who won’t vote for him and loses the conservative vote in the process! The war? As far as I’m concerned we won that the second Saddam’s neck went “SNAP”. I love the way conservatives equate getting out of Iraq with “losing” or “being defeated”. Almost the same way the lunatic left equates enforcing the law with racism.

Mackie,

I agree that McCain would be a dangerous President and I agree he may put forward a plan to bomb locations in IRAN,

but, I respectively disagree that the Sunni Muslim population would perhaps take up arms to defend the Shia. A lot of Sunni’s see the Shia as heretics, even apostates (though I hold neither of those views to be true myself)

I’m not saying that you would not have a bunch of Angry Muslims in and out of the US, but on a point of cultural protocol, The Sunni’s won’t fight on behalf of injustice against the Shia, they would seek revenge for injustice against themselves.

Another thing we forget is the Persians in general have a deep love of their homeland. Not all people from Iran are Muslim Shia, there are Curds, Jews, Christians, Bahai (extremely persecuted), Zoroastrians (native monotheist faith) and of course secularist (like the Shah).

The Secularist and the Zoroastrians really hate the Shia, many of them reside in the United States, exiled after the overthrow of the Shah. Attacking Iran is a lot more dangerous that attacking Iraq (stupid as that was). The Persian population in the US is integrated into some of the highest positions of corporate power. You also can’t always determine their nationality by their skin color or accent. Some Persians are as White as me and speak with a perfect American accent, others look more Latino and if you are not familiar with the tones in Parsi (the way you actually pronounce Farsi) you would think they were from South America.

Many of the Persian American population are highly educated, artistically sophisticated and love America, but their love and reverence of their native Persia (IRAN) runs deeper. An Iraq style invasion of Iran would have unfathomable complications for the U.S. On the one hand, I can guarantee international sanctions against the USA across the board and the possible withdraw of the UN from US soil. After that our self assurance of not dieing in a suicide bombing on our way to the library will equal to that of the Israelis. Did you know that “Assassination” was invented in Persia? Currently the Iraqi’s have no means bringing vengeance against the US, the Persians do in FORCE.

Attacking Iran is absolute madness on our part, our security and freedom are forfeit if we do, I don’t think even McCain is that crazy, and if he his, it does not matter, I fear Israel will beat him to the punch. The implications globally of that happening are pretty grim.

but anyway I digress…

we have two poor choices for president, that’s pretty horrible this time around. tancredo sucked too. We really didnt have any suitable candidates this time.

why does everyone call this resolution “anti-immigrant” when it’s targeted at illegal immigrants? seems as though this tag was put on by MWB and this blog not the authors of the resolution. I dont see one post on the other blog where anti-immigrant is the undertone of anything. I think everyone here is just sensationalizing things. Get it right people, the resolution is meant to prevent illegals not legal people.

Elvis

“Elvis loves Jenny Craig, and so should anti-bvbl…they need it!”

For Elvis, an in-depth explanation:

One good measure for whether the Immigration Resolution was anti-immigrant would be the way in which it’s proponents measure success or failure.

Sadly for this county and its reputation, for instance, Corey Stewart was on Fox “News” recently saying that the Resolution has been a success because there are less ESOL students in our schools. There is no positive link between ESOL and immigration status. If you ask Corey about it, his own children took ESOL because their mother speaks to them in Swedish. But Corey’s fan club, Help Save Manassas, told him over and over again that they want less Spanish speakers in their neighborhoods and supermarkets. Corey is now bragging that he came through for them. Somehow he doesn’t realize that what they wanted was anti-immigrant, because it dealt with suspicions and speculations about people based on their language proficiency. Somehow he doesn’t realize how awful that comment sounds to the general public, and how deeply he embarrasses Prince William County when he says such things. I think it’s because he’s spent too much time with Gospel Greg and Help Save Manassas. As I said, they are the only ones still talking to him.

Another indicator is Robert Duecaster, going ballistic after the April 29th policy change. He recommended rioting in the streets (remember the pitchforks and shovels remark?) because the law had been rendered impotent and the evidence????? He saw a Hispanic family moving into his neighborhood instead of out of his neighborhood.

You see, while skin color and language proficiency are an indicators as to how long someone has been in this country, there is nothing scientific about the conclusions one has to jump to in order to make a judgment about a person’s status. Immigration status is a adjustable and invisible quality, like the currency of your subscription to LIFE magazine. You just can’t tell by looking.

So while declaring that less students who need extra English tutoring is a victory, or that having a Hispanic family move in down the street is a defeat, is NOT a good measure for whether the Immigration Resolution is “working,” it DOES provide an insight into the sentiments of those who advocated for it.

WHWN:

while skin color and language proficiency are an indicators as to how long someone has been in this country

Not really. You don’t need english in many parts of the country. Some people are born and raised here speaking mostly spanish. My uncle has been here more than 40 years and barely speaks english. Skin color means nothing. Hispanics have been here since the founding. If everyone in manassas, had to move to miami and find work, hahaha, they would be the ones called immigrants.

Does anyone know what’s wrong with Mr. Duecaster’s voice? I mean that seriously….does he have a vocal problem or does he just get so emotional at Citizen’s Time that he has trouble speaking? (Not making fun of either of those conditions, BTW. Just wondering.)

BTW, I find his last name symbolic somehow….an ironic kind of pun or something….

Elvis, put the bottle down. Shall I try to find you a sponsor for your little problem. This is way too early in the morning for you to start the tippling.

To whoever called him Elvis the Pelvis yesterday…correction: Elvis the elbow bender.

Kgotthardt you mean like Due-plicitous?

LOL! Well that would be one.

I was thinking of DUE CASTER, as in, he wants to cast his idea of what is due upon us….like an evil magician….

Mackie, point taken. Prejudice is based on indicators. It isn’t easy to avoid making assumptions based on skin color and language proficiency. Few I think would deny having done so. There is after all a statistical probability at work, since so many of our recent immigrants are from Asia, Africa and Latin America.

This probability, however, is not sufficient to become the “whereas” statement of an Imigration Resolution, not does it justifty any sort of institutionalized prejudice, and I think that is your point.

It is a shameful fact that the authors of our Immigration Resolution used skin color to judge whether the hospitals were crowded with “illegal aliens” or just a bunch of people who could’nt afford health insurance (of which there are many).

This is etched in documents that none of us can deny. And it is echoed by our leaders going on national television, as Corey Stewart did yesterday, to brag that he has helped rid the county of people who might be illegal. This is a stain on our county’s reputation that we will be coping with for generations.

A handful of outsiders … Letiecq, Stirrup, Hethmon, Duecaster and Stewart … have given this county a reputation for ignorance and intolerance. For long time residents this is difficult to bear.

There has to be something we can do to reverse this unfair characterization.

“institutionalized prejudice”

WHWN, yes…that is EXACTLY what we have. THAT should be unconstitutional.

Here were Corey’s words on national TV yesterday. I believe I audibly groaned and then hung my head in shame:

“The numbers of students who don’t speak English in our school system has been decreasing”

Someone really needs to give him another line to spout when he speaks publically.

KG, lol, I’d envisioned another spelling of “due”.

Does anyone know if the BOCS can rein in Corey? I mean can he be made to say that he’s merely speaking for himself and not the BOCS or the residents of the county?

Censored,

You are a scream! I’m dying right now.

LMAO! Love it! Would make a great political cartoon.

“Does anyone know if the BOCS can rein in Corey? I mean can he be made to say that he’s merely speaking for himself and not the BOCS or the residents of the county?”

Write to your county supervisor. I think I will. Corey is an embarassment to all of us.

Let’s see….you mean DOO-caster?

Censored, I was asleep on that one. How funny.

Yup, he sure slung a bunch of doo on this one.

What else do expect with the 800lb gorilla in a room…sorry couldn’t resist

“The numbers of students who don’t speak English in our school system has been decreasing” — Corey Stewart, on national TV

That is so incredibly embarrassing. I think the Board should pass a new Resolution that says Corey Stewart does not speak for the county or the county government. He has demonstrated a greater interest in representing the interests of F.A.I.R. and a similar commitment to lies, spin, and obfuscation.

Either he should quite the BOCS and join F.A.I.R., or he should shut the hell up.

Make no mistake, Corey represents the vast majority of citizens of this county, just not the lunatic left fringe. Fortunately, he doesn’t need their votes. He’s got all the support he needs.

“The tide is turning so hold on.”

Or the sane people can all move out and leave the rest of the morons to just kill one another.

Yea I saw the support he had on that film where he turned red in the face and kept drinking water. Yup Yup Yup. Slowpoke Rodriguez, keep telling yourself that. It will save his opponent next election cycle some money.

I actually laughed when I saw him trying to spin that he had gotten what he wanted all along.

He is becoming more and more marginal.

Slowpoke,

The majority of people turned to Corey and the resolution because they were desperate over the quality of life issues and felt they had no other choice…or at least I hope that’s the case.

Mackie,

I think that is a very good explanation as I and many had fallen into that category and saw it all happened so fast ( to jump on a bandwagon)…that is when I started to question…”things being too EASY”

Should add ripe for the picking and here we are right back where we started

kgotthardt, 12. July 2008, 11:44

Does anyone know what’s wrong with Mr. Duecaster’s voice? I mean that seriously….does he have a vocal problem or does he just get so emotional at Citizen’s Time that he has trouble speaking? (Not making fun of either of those conditions, BTW. Just wondering.)

Glad to see you’re not making fun. I heard him speak at Citizen’s Time several months ago. I work with a dude that sounds similar…his voice sounds very nervous even in calm, ‘no pressure’ situations. It’s just a ‘thing’, and not that uncommon.

Similarly, I have a severe stammer,at times. My speech is worse when I’m calm though.

es_la_ley,

“It’s just a ‘thing’, and not that uncommon.”

Also, it is wild that someone can change like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzl0O8rsgAM

Red Dawn,

Ah, now Corey has been caught rolling in the mud with an ear-to-ear grin on his piggy face and we can see the little piglet he was all this time hiding beneath his starched white shirt! Oink! Oink!

We must revoke his starched white shirt.

Woe is us that we forgot the sage advice of the Beatles:

Have you see the little piggies
crawling in the dirt
And for all the little piggies
Life is getting worse
Always having dirt
to play around in

Have you see the bigger piggies
In their starched white shirts
You will find the bigger piggies
Stirring up the dirt
Always have clean shirts
to play around in

In their sties with all their backing
They don’t care what goes on around
In their eyes there’s something lacking
What they need’s a darn good whacking

Everywhere there’s lots of piggies
Living piggy lives
You can see them out for dinner
With their piggy wives
Clutching forks and knives
to eat their bacon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1QqZaMUzZs

Mackie,

Do you think PWC was caught in the web? oink~

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKvuj9lAfCc

I have watched and rewatched Mr. Stewart and canna find one simple altruistic act or statement that would allow me to view him favorably. He was elected based on his anti illegal immigraion signs and his party. Those that I know that voted for him knew nothing about him and based their decisions on those two factors.

Local elections must take on a greater importance and greater depth. Frankly, party affiliation at the local level is immaterial. (IMHO)

Red Dawn,

In our fear we imagined ourselves caught like animals on a farm with no way out. Then there arose a few piglets from among us who promised us the answers and hope. Oink! Oink! The piggies pointed the way with their hooves and we marched into the mud while they kept their starched white shirts clean. And every time they couldn’t resist and dived into the mud and rolled around in it, we bought them a new starched white shirt until we couldn’t afford any more…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksnwIUyspps

But now we’re waking up. No more starched white shirts for the little piggies…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsPZsPSa_fw

“Similarly, I have a severe stammer,at times. My speech is worse when I’m calm though.”

Yeah, I have this thing that I forget words. I do it when I’m nervous, tired, distracted or for other reasons I cannot figure out. I hate that! That’s one reason I would never make fun of anyone for their speech. Public speaking in particular is a bear!

Mackie,

Red Dawn was a good movie and I would say the MOST POWERFUL tool is INFORMATION.

Okay, can’t resist: Wolverines!!! LOL

Yes, the delivery of information is key.

Wolverines!!!

Kgottardt,

‘Tis a shame that Mr. Duecaster doesn’t possess your kindness of heart. He certainly doesn’t mind poking fun at perfectly innocent people.

KG –

Please stop. Seriously. Your ass is showing continually. For some one who claims to be “disabled”, you quickly pick on somebody for their voice (even though you say you aren’t making fun of him) and then you make a comment about “or the sane people can all move out and leave the rest of the morons to just kill one another.”

I hope you are the first to leave the county – your insanity is contagious and it’s starting to show that you are quite unstable. OR better yet – move to Mexico, El Salvador or Guatemala since you love it so much –

Can you make it through ONE day without making fun of others? Doubt it. Good role model for your kids.

Tell tale signs that our lovely model citizens KGothardt, Alanna, Elena, and the gang have vanquished “you wish” and the Hate Bunnies include:

1) Hate Bunnies are reduced to repeating the same debunked arguments over and over again punctuated by adolescent personal attacks.

2) The “Rule of Mob” Resolution has been dismantled, and Gospel Greg and his clones have been reduced to Red Circle Litter Pick-up Saturdays and pretending their humiliating defeat is a happy grinning victory.

3) Public opinion has turned against Chairman Stewart, who is now associated with Help Save Manassas nearly as directly as Gospel Greg himself.

4) Their sorry attack on Chief Deane was so piteously short-sighted that it anyone who has lived in this community more than 5 years (unlike most of the HSM anti-immigrant bunch) didn’t bother to respond, and those who did completely destroyed Chairman Stewart in front of all his colleagues and on TV. Yet the political suicide of this attack is still being discussed with shock and amusement, and seen as a turning point in the fall of the Anti-Immigrant Lobby and the rise of the silent majority.

5) The old blog has almost no traffic, and is no longer a source of “information”; only a spectacle by which to monitor the tragic spiral into madness of a racist watching helplessly as two non-racists duel for the White House.

6) The new blog is the talk of the town, and the above-mentioned ladies are the darlings of the county

7) Hate Bunnies like you wish keep coming back here to vent their frustrations, but only succeed in making mini-spectacles of themselves, periodically reminding us all how frustrated they are with 1 thru 6.

I like # 4!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIqYn_1IdZU

Actually, WHWN, when I was “challenged” to post a solution, which I did, there was no response from the “lovely ladies of this blog”. I think it’s funny that you say this blog is so “popular”, when the only ones who post are regulars and there is no new blood. The resolution is working, whether you like it or not, and others around the country are taking notice.

It’s those of you that continue to defend rapists, child molesters, tax evaders and murders that should be ashamed. What “we” want is for the law to be enforced, period. Regardless of the country of origin. I know that you don’t agree with that, because you have posted several times about the fact that laws are of no matter.

And what have you contributed to positively other than running people off the board so you can continue to post your absurdities?

“The new blog is the talk of the town, and the above-mentioned ladies are the darlings of the county”

And if that’s true, then PWC is screwed big time.

Speaking of KGothardt,

I was PROUD to give her a hug around the neck when I finally had the chance to meet her the other night. She takes the beating and if it is not her, it is Alanna and Elena..F cowards!!!!

I welcome them ( and on or 2 may have grown up here) to my hometown.

RD,

Good for you. Spend some more time with her. I’m glad that you where proud to give her a hug – could you manage to fit your arms around her?

You wish,

No one can be screwed, only raped. No matter how PREPARED you are.

Red Dawn, my friend, I am proud to know you! And I’m proud to be with Alanna and Elena and everyone else here is working for positive change! –raising a glass to you my friends–

WHWN, YOU are one of the darlings of the county! Cheers! (Will I ever get to meet you?)

you wish sounds like doodoocaster to me. Doodoocaster, why so cold?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cV6xBQDCTzg

““The new blog is the talk of the town, and the above-mentioned ladies are the darlings of the county”

And if that’s true, then PWC is screwed big time.”

CHEERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayF1T_CdGro

Mackie,

Good song. Glad to see you are still AWAKE….LOL

I get it that you get it…confirmed Luv it

You wish, are you the next one in line for a good old fashioned shunning? Just say the word…we will comply.

Let’s just all go for one last arse kicking before it begins.

No one on this blog has ever defended a rapist. child molester, tax evader or murderer. You are a liar for saying so. Grow some nads and argue against some of our ideas, but don’t make up crap that no one here has said.

Spin it anyway you want, the regulars here were pleased that the resolution became contained and immigration check was moved to post-arrest. That small adjustment protects the county, the people here, and directs concerns towards criminals, rather than immigrants.

Interesting song and video, Mackie. Never heard of the group or that song.

“Grow some nads and argue against some of our ideas, but don’t make up crap that no one here has said.”

Well said, MH.

And no, I wasn’t making fun of Duecaster’s speech. I believe I said that about six or seven or eight times, but in case You Wish didn’t get it…here’s #9. I was just ASKING if there was something wrong with his voice just like if I limp, you might ask “Did she hurt her leg?” Since when is that making fun of someone?

You Wish needs a tranq.

This song is dedicated to the people of Anti. None of us have to know the secret hand shake, or wear a red circle. We don’t have to quote the party line and we don’t get throw off for not agreeing with Alanna. Here’s to the New Kid in Town!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HLyrbDblw-Y

Consider me shunned – I will no longer waste time on this waste of space – enjoy your third world neighborhoods!

And unlike KG, I don’t believe in better living through pharmaceuticals.

KG/ my friend that I am PROUD to give a hug around the neck,

Let me tell you a secret ( that I also need to remind MYSELF of) The HEART can be a handicap in the WRONG eyes/ears.

I will always WELCOME the heart over any matter in my hometown.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_CU-9FNoDE

“The HEART can be a handicap in the WRONG eyes/ears.”

Well put!

HEY! I made a smiley face! It worked! I learned it on Tom’s blog and now…

Okay. Little things make me very happy. I admit it.

Red, totally awesome tune and video! Wow. Thanks!

Moon-howler,

FREAKY, FREAKY, that we both posted at the same time talking about a SECRET…ohhhhh, let the conspiracy theories begin! LTFOL!

You wish,

Hope that you do come back but I understand. My momma always told me don’t rent space in your head for free ( BUT, I still do) No one is shunning you and I will stick up for you in a heart beat if that is truly how you feel!!!!!!!!
How else are we to solve problems if we cannot talk, blog, agree, disagree, understand or not understand?

I SURE AS HELL DO NOT KNOW THE ANSWERS, BUT I LOVE THE QUESTIONS AND WILL DO MY PART……

you wish: see #7.

Tell tale signs that our lovely model citizens KGothardt, Alanna, Elena, and the gang have vanquished “you wish” and the Hate Bunnies include:

1) Hate Bunnies are reduced to repeating the same debunked arguments over and over again punctuated by adolescent personal attacks.

2) The “Rule of Mob” Resolution has been dismantled, and Gospel Greg and his clones have been reduced to Red Circle Litter Pick-up Saturdays and pretending their humiliating defeat is a happy grinning victory.

3) Public opinion has turned against Chairman Stewart, who is now associated with Help Save Manassas nearly as directly as Gospel Greg himself.

4) Their sorry attack on Chief Deane was so piteously short-sighted that anyone who has lived in this community more than 5 years (unlike most of the HSM anti-immigrant bunch) didn’t bother to respond, and those who did completely destroyed Chairman Stewart in front of all his colleagues and on TV. Yet the political suicide of this attack is still being discussed with shock and amusement, and seen as a turning point in the fall of the Anti-Immigrant Lobby and the rise of the silent majority.

5) The old blog has almost no traffic, and is no longer a source of “information”; only a spectacle by which to monitor the tragic spiral into madness of a racist watching helplessly as two non-racists duel for the White House.

6) The new blog is the talk of the town, and the above-mentioned ladies are the darlings of the county

7) Hate Bunnies like you wish keep coming back here to vent their frustrations, but only succeed in making mini-spectacles of themselves, periodically reminding us all how frustrated they are with 1 thru 6.

you wish, it’s been 30 minutes since you quit this blog (I just now noticed after posting the above). I’m sure you’re still reading, though, so I’ll say one final thing to you in case you really make good on your threat to leave:

I wouldn’t even mention you by “name,” or respond to you in any way if you didn’t attack people personally. I’ve never even noticed you before today, and if you’d just gone on cutting and pasting your talking points from Gospel Greg and F.A.I.R., I never would have called you out. If you don’t like being reminded of 1 through 6, then don’t attack people personally. Face it, you’re outmatched on this blog, not just by me, but by the average poster. Why?

1) The facts are on our side.

2) The march of progress and cultural change is on our side.

3) There is authenticity in the personal history of the contributors to this blog, particularly the bravest souls who put their real names out there like KGotthardt, Alanna, and Elena.

They are ordinary citizens who became extraordinary citizens in the face of a ferocious and seemingly unstoppable mob mentality, the Anti-Immigrant Lobby which had intimidated and over run everyone else until they ran into these three ladies and a few others who have risen to the challenge. They have the facts on their side, as well as history, and the march of progress. But more importantly, they are non-partisan and bi-partisan, with no other agenda than to preserve this community’s welcoming reputation, and defend our democracy against bullies and bigots. It took courage to do what they did. Our leaders had failed us. Most were afraid to speak. But when these gals decided to face down Gospel Greg on HIS playing field, they inspired others to do the same. And together as a community, we whipped him.

Meanwhile, people like you react to only one small detail of all I have said above. These women have their real names out there, and that means that people like you can hide behind the cloak of anonymity and take pot shots. Good riddance, loser.

Standing ovation for WHWN.

I thought I was falling off the wagon about being polite and reaching out to people whose opinion differed from mine.

But you are right. There are people who hide and then do nothing but take cheap shots. They don’t address the issues. They spout ancient tired rhetoric straight off the pages of FAIR materials. Yawn. They make fun of people they don’t know based on gossip from the dark side.

I agree. Good riddance. And you know what they say about the screen door.

WHWN, you have such insight and talent for getting to–and expressing–the heart of the matter. What was so upsetting was the intimidation and mob mentality, and I cheer and thank the ladies for the bravery to stand up to it.

Note to SELF, KG and others

“The HEART can be a handicap in the WRONG eyes/ears.”

and OPPPPSSSS, almost did it again….to caring and giving so many chances.

Oh well, I guess if I were to be CHARGED ( innocent until proven guilty)I would want people handicapped with a HEART

http://youtube.com/watch?v=hMenB9Ywh2Q

talk about 2 sides, played this backwards on my record player and it said smoke marijuana
ANYWAY, it was a request in my email box for you wish or people like you that want to be MEAN

You Wish,

If you are still out there, I want you to know that I am one of the new posters on this blog, and have sent it on to many like-minded PWC, Manassas City, and Manassas Park citizens. I have been telling them about the how wonderful it is, and how interesting the topics are.

WhyHereWhyNow’s #6 is definitely right. Anti-bvbl is only increasing in popularity.

You Wish,
I found your post:

“you wish, 8. July 2008, 19:39
Okay, how about these? Rather than just picking up trash, why don’t you volunteer in the community at schools and hospitals to act as a translator or advocate? OR create an organization in which immigrants who need help filling out paperwork/getting community resources/finding work get the help they need and the information that they need? There was just an article in the Examiner that up to 30% of students eligible for free/reduced lunch don’t get it because their parents don’t know that they can apply for it.

Is that better? I do many of these things where I work, because I work in the school system. I advocate for the parents who have limited English proficiency and make sure that a translator is available for them. I have volunteered to teach adult ESL, as has my mother. You think that because people are against illegal immigrant we are against ALL immigrants. You are wrong.”

Censored did respond very kindly to your post, sorry if I missed your suggestion, it’s difficult to respond to each comment, I am unable to sit at the computer all day to respond to each person. However, I also noticed within that thread, you began by insulting KG and her trips to Walmart. Maybe that set the tone for me and is why I missed your suggestion. However, even in your suggestion you being negatively…

“Okay, how about these? Rather than just picking up trash, why don’t you volunteer in the community at schools and hospitals to act as a translator or advocate”

My perception was that you were beginning your thought with an insult, like picking up trash is a useless endeavor. Also, you were clearly directing this at a “you”. Also, this wasn’t a suggestion for illegal immigration, this was a suggestion for legal immigration, as you clearly state in your comment. However, I would add, if you work in the school system, if you help immigrant families, you may very well be helping someone here who lacks legal status.

Now I see you directed an insult at KG personally, how very petty of you. The only reason anyone can direct insults at KG, Alanna, and myself, is that we choose to talk here using our real names, thus we take the risk of being attacked based on our looks and not our beliefs. I find this medium of communication can be very unhealthy, as it allows people like you to hide behind a screen and not be accountable for your words.

WHWN,
Thank you again for your kind words. You know, I had no idea that my speaking out would have mattered. I will be honest, when people like “Elvis”, continually attack me personally, I do get discouraged. I wonder if it is possible to come to reasonable solutions when so much hate and disrespect exists. On some level, I feel like this is class warfare and our government allows the tension, fear, and hate to grow, paralyzed by their indecision and lack of leadership, the average citizen is clearly feeling abandoned. Abandoment creates a sense of hoplessness and fear. We see our future with so many negatives before us, war, terrorism, rising health care costs, rising college costs, gas prices, global climate change, and immigration issues.

Diversity Gal,
Welcome!

Diverity Gal, yes, welcome. And I apologize to you for not saying it yesterday.

We are glad you are here.

Welcome, Diversity Gal.

Three cheers, WHWN!!

And thank you, Elena and Alanna, for stepping forward when the moderate voices in our county desperately needed spokespeople…and for hanging in there despite the mud thrown from the dark side. And, KG, thank you for continuing your well-written replies and for your stances at the BOCS meetings too.

What I find refreshing about this blog – besides the lack of censorship – is that it gives the actual residents of this county a forum to express their ideas and acts as a counterpoint to the out-of-state emails generated by organizations such as FAIR (which has no ties to this county other than its grand experiment, the resolution).

And these moderate, independent voices are important because neither party can win without them.

Elena’s right it does take curage to use your real name. Boy, I came under fire this week for making a statement and saying “some” in a “group”. Not, only did the comments come to life here. I got several of emails. I can tell you, I thought long and hard about a name to use here. Also, I am willing to stand up say what *I* believe in my own words. I don’t need anyone feeding my head and mouth with words.

The moderates must be heard, they are the vast majority. Both parties are joke, and the time has come for their to be a viable third party. I don’t think most Americans are extremists.

Chris, you are certainly one of the heroines of the story as well. I applauded and defended you on that super-long thread, although not as ferociously perhaps as I did Alanna, KGotthardt, and Elena above. Not that you were asking in your post above, but I’m now asking myself why. I want you to know it wasn’t because I don’t appreciate you for what you’ve done!

There are many heroes, sung and unsung. But your journey is an unique one, Chris, and your courage is singularly important in our county’s resurgence of morality, pro-activeness, and forward thinking for the common good.

While I’ve met more than a few residents here who filled out HSM petitions and were counted as “members” by Gospel Greg, only to later ask that their names be taken off the list for what they saw as email spam, you are the one person I know of who not only left the group, but used your own name when questioning their methods and contributing to a public forum that seeks, in part, to undo the harm they have done… this knowing full well that several HSM members have your home address, your email address, etc. … and apparently after you received some threatening warnings (that’s what I gathered from the infamous 400 comment thread).

We are, all of us, afraid of what people like Gospel Greg are capable of. Whether he means to or not, he presents himself as a frightening figure at Citizens Time, or just lurking around the McCoart building like a rogue shark among various schools of smaller fish. We also fear some of the pilot fish, the ones who cannot see the mean-spiritedness and cold calculations of Gospel Greg, and continue to flank him blindly.

These frightening figures are ones you have seen close up. From the distance that I have watched them, I observe Greg and his followers to be particularly disturbing because

a) they present a certain type of right wing fanaticism that targets minorities such as Muslims, gays, and Hispanics

b) they seek to appropriate the county Police department as extensions of their agenda to rid the county of certain undesirables

c) sadly, they succeeded with (b) in large degree … not in actuality but in perception (perception is reality right Chris?) soiling the reputation of our world class Police force and the county as a whole.

d) and most frighteningly of all, they seemed to have infiltrated our local government, with members in our State Legislature (Jackson Miller) and on our Board of County Supervisors (John Stirrup), and a Chairman of the BOCS in Corey Stewart who seems more consumed with the local interests of HSM and national interests of F.A.I.R. than he does in leading this county through a period that would have been challenging WITHOUT last summer’s ambush by the Anti-Immigrant Lobby.

I lay this out, Chris, because you may have come to similar conclusions peering at these people from the inside. I can only imagine what it was like for you (and Red Dawn and forgive me if there are others) to slowly realize that your are sitting in the pews of a Church in which you no longer believe. What a painful identity crisis that must have been.

Really anyone who spoke against HSM’s legislative agenda and/or tactics at Citizens’ Time or on blogs should be commended, but you actually are the bravest of all.

So, why haven’t I defended you as staunchly when you, too, were attacked in a personal fashion?

From what I read, it seemed like the posts directed at you were hurtful, but not in the same anonymous scrawling on the bathroom wall way that Elvis N you wish have targeted Elena, KGotthardt, and Alanna. They were basically using
the Scott McClellan Damage Control Special you know, “Gee, I thought I knew her,” “Gee, that doesn’t sound like the Chris I knew.” Blah, blah, blah. There was an adolescent tinge to the whole thing as well. With one of your former HSM mates saying things like “I thought we were friends” and trying to guilt you. I guess I didn’t feel it was my place to jump into such a thing. In fact, I questioned what it was doing on a blog in the first place. If any of you valued the friendships that you have, this feeling of “betrayal” the other gals were expressing probably should have taken place over coffee.

On the other hand, I guess I’ve just lost patience for the unsavory routine in which the Hate Bunny crowd tries to debate the issues, gets spanked, and then retorts with some sort of insult usually referring to body issues. That is precisely the type of bathroom wall bullshit that Gospel Greg’s blog is known for, and precisely the type of bullying that put our county in the economic, fiscal, social, and public relations whole that hit is in today.

So, I guess you can take this as a long expression of support, and an explanation as to why certain attacks get under my skin more than others. I’m sure if I learned more about what you went through, Chris, I would have a great deal more sympathy for you than I already do. Your story is so unique. But in the case of Alanna, Elena, and KGotthardt, I could not have more sympathy because I went through a very similar process of watching in horror, doing a little, doing more, then doing as much as I dared to reverse the tide. They took it a step further than I did, using their real names when they reveal how they feel about these issues. So I invest all the more in them, I see the courage I don’t quite have. So when some anonymous vandal comes on here thinking this blog is a bathroom wall for him to malign the very heroines that made it possible, you bet I’ll leap to my feet with a mop and a scrubber. Just call me the school janitor.

WHWN,
I was not expecting all of that. However, it is all appreciated. I really have to absorb it all. I will think about this long and hard while I relax on my last hours of vacation. I certainly took note of your defense.
I’m glad Alanna had the courage, knowledge, time, patience, etc to take on bvbl head to head. My “perception” is the fact that she’s a WOMAN doesn’t sit too well with some egotistical minds. And we all know what perception is right?

Stirrup’s opponent also had no political savvy. He got very little support from the democrats. I barely considered him a viable candidate. Perhaps a well-run campaign would have brought different results. Who knows.

Chris, you are an insightful on aren’t you. I was thinking about gender as well but from the other side of the equation. Is there a reason why so many women were brave enough to stand up to bullies who violated our democracy and disgraced our county? Where are all the men? (Of course there were a lot of men, Gregg Reynolds and Dexter Fox come to mind, plus that guy who did the “Fear Politics” speech on October 16, and of course Patrick Garland, but go with me here.)

Think about the Board members. Until Principi came along, who was the only one willing to stand up to the Chairman. Maureen Caddigan!

I’m going to think on this from a male perspective. I’m anxious to read your Meditations from the Last Hours of Vacation. With that title it sounds like an opus! : )

aaag! my smiley face was chopped in half! KGotthardt, how do you do it?

WHWN, I wonder if the gender gap has to do with linear thinking. My husband is better at seeing one project from start to finish and I’m better at multi-tasking. Women generally have to balance so many things that we’re often five steps ahead in detecting danger signals. And we end up as mediators to family squabbles so often that we know nothing is easily black or white. It’s often the women in a family that give their children the admonishments of: Don’t be mean. Share. Don’t make fun of… Etc. We’re a sex that has experienced discrimination and often are willing to keep others from having to unnecessarily experience it.

Also, some of our husbands remain more publically neutral because of their jobs.

Alanna,
I really feel the reason the western portions of our district were won “no fuss no muss”, is due to the fact that that’s where the more affluent neighborhoods are. I feel these neighborhoods have a strong Republican base to begin with.

Censored by bvbl, I fully understand being forced to be publicly neutral because of a job. There are men AND women in this county who are in that position, believe me.

But I’m also wondering if there is a jewel of insight in what you said about having experienced discrimination as women. I have definitely noticed that people of color have been much more likely to speak out against the hostile takeover by the Anti-Immigrant Lobby in Prince William County. The reasons for this were so obvious that I didn’t give it much thought. But now that you point out that women are more likely than men to have experienced some sort of prejudice, namely sexism, than men, I wonder if women are also more likely to have experience defending themselves in situations where their rights are violated. I’m not only speaking of sexual assault, but also sexual harassment.

For me, as a man, I was completely taken aback watching as my local government was overwhelmed by this well-organized “army” of local agitators assisted by a well-funded national lobbying firm called F.A.I.R. The ugliness and the disrespect with which the Anti-Immigrant Lobby infiltrated and toppled our county government felt like a violation to me. I had no way of processing such an action. I was not accustomed to standing up and saying, “Wait a second, my rights have been violated, and I will not stand for this.” Why? Because I am a white male, and such things do not often happen to white males in American society.

So my theory is that our fate was in many ways left up to the brave women in our community who took the lead in standing up to these ill-motivated thugs. The men of Prince William County were not psychologically prepared to admit that we had been violated as a premise for standing up and saying “no.” It took us a while longer to realize this, and rally to the cause. We needed our brave sisters to show us the way.

WHWN,

PIR(perception is reality), all the way! I’ve been thinking about your post and how to respond. In actuality anything I say is subject to attack. I understand, and by the same token have no problem at all defending MY feelings. Yes, my feeling are honest and sincere. Iv’e always said being in the middle/moderate means you take an ass beating from both sides.

Yesterday, I was listening to the radio and I heard John Cougar Mellencamp, and one line that has ALWAYS stood out in the song is. “If you’re NOT part of the future, then get out of the way”. I wonder just how many of these “newcomers” will be in PWC for generations to come. I’ve also asked the question of the “newcomers”. They’ve came to OUR county guns a blazing, and telling our board how things should be run. They must have thought things were good enough, they moved here didn’t they. I want to know where many will be in 10-15 years. I will NOT call names on this.

You’ve been paying close attention to posts clearly. I will say the threatening email was from just a mere “member” of HSM. This same person had nerve enough to come beating on my door one afternoon, after they’d been to address the BOS. They told me “I’d better get down there and thank Corey and John S. for the resolution or we could kiss it good-bye”. This coming from someone that’s been know to write that the Resolution came from the residents of WestGate. Yeah, that’s a crock of you know what, if I ever heard it.

The blogs are no place for personal attacks. You’ve seen me ask some that like to make nasty comments of the some’s appearances makes me ill. Are they ready for the cover of GQ or Cosmo? I was pleased to get the emails over such stuff instead of reading it on the blog. I personally don’t base friendships based on wheter or not they agree 100% with me or not. We are all INDIVIDUALS, with our OWN minds.

I can NOT stand to see the reputation of our county going down the tubes, simply because our board got rail roaded by a few. This makes me physically ill. I must say I seem to have taken five years off my face since no longer being involved with a “group”.

I remember going to address the BOS for the first time 6/5/2007, at the request of HSM. Well, there were seven talking point speeches that had already been handed out by the time myself, and two other PW natives which I didn’t know showed up. We were told we didn’t have to speak we could stand up and show unity. Well, ha haa!! The three natives got up and spoke from the heart of their true life experiences after all the “speeches” were read. I could be wrong, but I’ve always thought the three us made a far better/positive impact on the board than those that read talking points provided by someone.

Maureen Caddigan was the only one to stand up to Corey it seemed. I’ve always admire her, and even more so after I’ve watched her over the past year.

An opus from me..surely you jest! I have the gift to gab not the gift to write. Yet, I don’t let that stop me. I think my reasonable rational voice is needed in the county. I would encourage ALL to make their voices heard. This is one of the many beauties of the USA, we can speak to our minds.

WHWN, I grew up as somewhat of an outsider – a Yankee in the 50s/60s South, a female in male dominated math and science classes. I guess I was a stubborn little cuss who didn’t like to be limited and as a result, I don’t like to see arbitrary limitations put on others.

I think that many people were taken by surprise by the actions of HSM and the rapidity with which the BOCS capitulated to their ideas. Too many of us have been trained/conditioned to be nice, let’s-not-upset-the-apple cart type of middle class people. We assume people can debate, behave rationally, be heard equally. Bullies don’t operate like that. They seize the moment and rely on our being too flabbergasted at the very public brouhaha to repond effectively. (I could write a book about the class clash in my neighborhood alone. It should have prepared me for the Black Velvets, but I was complacent and tired of dealing with loudmouths.)

So, I don’t think it was just a lack of preparedness on men’s part. It was equally a culture clash…as well as a battle for a higher ground and fair treatment.

WHWH, While I have admired Ms. Caddigan since she was a School Board Member for her public service, lets not laud her with laurels over the immigration issue too quickly.

Where was her moral compass when she voted on October 16th? She had all the facts that every other board member possessed and she voted along with everyone else that day.

She was not duped or blindsided by what the resolution would do, she had all of the reports and actions that the County was about to undertake and she still, like the rest of them, voted in favor of the resolution. I am not saying she was worse than the other seven, but she was one of the eight who voted for it and should not be let off the hook so easily.

My thoughts about the other supervisors is that they are pretty normal people without larger ambition. Perhaps they had no clue how to deal with the Chair? I mean how many other people have come along that clearly care less about PWC and are clearly there for their own benefit?? Connaughton pales by comparison. At least he had good manners. Maybe they did not know how to handle this situation. The man is a bully. Most good people don’t know how to handle these situations.

I believe they are learning.

The two meetings of the budget markup and budget recap were interesting. The others simply sat back and let him attempt to lead. He couldn’t and they stalemated and stalemated. Finally they approved Principi’s original recommendation. Interesting how it came from him and was voted down,$.97 and no cameras and checking after arrest but when it came from stewart it went. Don’t tell me Stewart negotiates how supervisors vote based on what is presented. Tell me it can’t be possible?

The only real innocent was Frank Principi because he wasn’t on the board.

In fairness, I do believe that some of the supervisors were in the dark about where the push was coming from. I believe that 2 of them knew that many of the emails and faxes were not from within the county. The other 5 I will give the benefit of the doubt to.

WHWN, I applaud you for recognizing the strength and courage of the women on this blog especially the women who spoke up publicly without the safety of the virtual cloak of anonymity. I imagine you to be one of the men out there with the imagination and intelligence to see what others’ experiences are like. I have had many fights with my boyfriend — who is white — who failed to see discrimination against women and minorities for a long time. After hundreds of hours of fighting and discussion over the years, he is now more quick to see it than I.

There is a certain refusal to see, to acknowledge the truth. I think it’s a generalized resistance to change. If we acknowledged the truth, we’d have to change and change is unnatural, hard, nearly impossible for many of us, as individuals or as a community. To change is deeply disturbing and challenging for most people. Even if evolutionary adaptation demands it of us. HSM represents to me people who can’t and refuse to change. They can’t adapt to the dramatic changes in their lives. Sadly, they will go the way of dinosaurs. They’d rather destroy than change.

I admire Chris and RedDawn a great deal because they had the courage and strength to change their minds.

Here’s a toast to all the brave women and men on this blog who’d like to work towards changing the county, approaching the project with compassion and courage.

NotGL,

Many thanks for you kind words. If in the days of using a screen name from time to time I would sign them with my first and last name. I never felt I was anymous. Too many people watch BOS meetings, and for those that heard me speak during the days of giving your complete address, I was never a mystery. For those that paid attention the could figure me out in a heart beat. I’ve had several people call my house wanting some guidance on neighborhood issues and other things. I’ve also, had people ask for my information to contact me at a later time to discuss issues further after Citizens Time. I am still more than willing to assist anyone with these types of things. My concern is for our county, and it’s reputation.
Compassion and Courage two badges to wear with honor.

Is it illegal if we lie to the BOCS and give a false name when we speak at the BOCS?

Thought crimes…they’re on the way…pioneered by those sworn to uphold and defend the constitution.

HR1955 passed 400 to 6.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyutU1eu5Ps

I’m not saying Supervisor Caddigan is less culpable than the other 2007 Board members just because she challenged Chairman Stewart during Board meetings. Yes, her vote was the same, along with Barg’s and Jenkins’. They wrongly believed the whole county was anti-immigrant at the time. Now they know better, and now they vote differently as the 9500 Liberty movie showed. What I was talking about was courage. What does it take to stand up to a bully? And why does it seem that the women of this county are more likely to do so? Even inside HSM, the ones brave enough to reconsider were women. Just trying to get to the bottom of that.

BTW, wasn’t this thread supposed to be about John McCain!!??

WHWN,
I think the cold hard truth of the matter is that the women in the county have bigger balls than the men. I hate be so crude, but it’s the truth.
Did you say something about John McCain.?!?

Alanna, 13. July 2008, 14:31

I truly believe the Republican base in the western portion of the district is what did. Stonewall, WestGate and others have usually been democratic precicnts. I guess some would say we are just the working class fools in the eastern part of the Gainesville district. There were several that campaigned hard for John S in the Stonewall precinct. Stonewall has the older established neighborhoods with many original owners in them. You were at Stonewall, and I think a lot vote a mixed ticket in our area. I know of two women that did quite a few “lit drops” in the Stonewall precinct. Once again we are back to the women being the “work horses”.

Re. McCain, I see his victory in the primary as related to and/or parallel to our victory in PWC. Perhaps McCain’s courage made it possible for people like Alanna to step forward? I don’t know. Alanna is a life-long Republican. What would she have done if the entire party, including the party elders had said, “The Anti-Immigrant Lobby R Us?”

In any case, PWC is a solidly Republican county … or at least as solid as there is in NoVa these days. That is why I say, both here in PWC and on the national level, there is no American more valuable than a moderate Republican.

On our Board, there are two moderate Republicans. I love them both. I find it hard to criticize them for taking so long to stand up to the Anti-Immigrant Lobby because they were torn by party loyalty, and, because I myself didn’t do sh*t until after the election.

As for McCain, I am agonizing with him on other issues like Iraq, Iran, and the economy. I wish he were the same candidate he was in 2000 when he got shafted by that “John McCain has a Black baby” b.s. in South Carolina.

WHWN.
I want to know when is John McCain going to visit us like Hillary and Obama?

I’m sure he will come to Virginia, but I am no expert on his campaign. My gosh, what will Gospel Greg do when McCain comes to town??? He was so angry about Obama being here that he wanted to stage a protest but couldn’t get anyone to join him and called it off to avoid the humiliation.

Someone said earlier that McCain is pandering to Hispanic voters. That’s a load of bull. Whoever wrote that probably didn’t even realize that Hispanics voted at all until the Democratic primary “spin” was dominated by the question of who will the Hispanics vote for. McCain was right on the immigration issue long before that. Remember, he introduced the bill that would have seen us avoid all this hell we went through the past year.

Wow! I missed a lot here, but it has been a relaxing Sunday. I can FEEL the LOVE! You guys are great! We all need pick-us-ups after a troop of hate bunnies.

Chris, I’m curious. Did HSM or particular people in HSM every scare you?

k-
I don’t scare that easily.
HSM as a whole didn’t/don’t scare me. However, there’s a handful of HSM that really feel the only way to get any where is by bullying. I am not, and have never been, and never will be about such tactics. It’s kind of laughable when I really think about it. I think most members just signed up. The meetings always had the same 25-30 faithful attendees. I would say about 85% of the membership have never even been to a meeting.

Chris, thank you for that insight. As someone who has received threatening notes/emails/anonymous blog posts, I can tell you that not knowing who these people are (other than what I read, see, and hear at BOCS meetings), makes the group and its leaders come off as really scary.

We live in a very “you just never know” age. I used to think people on blogs and online were just full of crap, that they would never go out and do some of the things they talk about. Then I learned the hard way that yes…some of these people really will act out what they say online. HSM showing up at 7/11’s, screaming at children, harassing people, sending threatening e-mails etc……it’s way too over-the-top for me not to be extra cautious.

On the other hand, as a woman who has had to endure a certain amount of gender-related crap, I agree that it makes me speak out even more. People have mixed reactions to this: they think you are brave (as some people here have said, and thank you for that) or they think you are stupid. I have a good many reasons for speaking out in my own name, but I will also confess that I didn’t know a thing about GL and his gang before openly ripping apart his tactics. Now I know. Would I have changed my mind if I had known what I was getting into? I really don’t know. Probably not. Again….courageous or stupid?

kg, you are very courageous. You’ve inspired me and many others.
I send you some Sunday love from Dumfries. My boyfriend loves you too.

I can FEEEEL the LOVE, NGL! Thanks to you and the man!

K-
I’ve been thinking and need to clarify the email was a threat of a law suit.

For Senator McCain:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYcBUEBd9FA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_csHlyPNeA

Chris:

I’ve been thinking and need to clarify the email was a threat of a law suit.

Lemme guess, it was from Greg. Thats one of his favorite tactics. Threaten you with a law suit using all kinds of legal words and citing legal cases to lend credibility to his threat.

Mackie,
The email was NOT from Greg!!!!
It was from a subordinate member of HSM.

What on earth could a subordinate member of HSM sue you for, Chris?

Free thought?

That may be against the group’s charter, but it’s not against the law.

I have to agree, getting out of HSM, took a great amount of personal courage and fortitude. To seperate from any group that you have become personally involved must have been difficult. We appreciate your insights Chris and Red Dawn, as you bring a unique prespective to the discussion. Did anyone see this article in the PW section about the “strike team” in Fairfax, dealing with boarding houses? Really, what people had concerns about were, and still remain, neighbhorhood issues. The County’s collective energy and money would have been better spent on really beefing up Neighborhood Services and working with citizens to create outreach services!

Chris,
Do you think the subordinate was just doing Greg’s dirty work for him? You don’t have to answer that if you don’t want to.

Elena,
No. I think this “neighbor” took upon theirself to be nasty to me. Oh well, live and LEARN!
I’ve learned way more than I ever bargained for. I’m always available via email for the answer to that riddle.

WHWN,
What can I say there are “nice” people, and there are the “mean spirited souls”.

I saw the article about the ’strike team’. Just their name makes me kind of wary. No one can enter your house without a warrant. To do so is a violation of the 4th amendment. Does anyone know how this strike team gains entry to peoples’ houses?

WhyHereWhyNow, 13. July 2008, 20:17 said,
“In any case, PWC is a solidly Republican county … or at least as solid as there is in NoVa these days. That is why I say, both here in PWC and on the national level, there is no American more valuable than a moderate Republican. ”

What??? As a leftie liberal, hard-core Democrat, I question the above statement. It may be true in PWC, given the party affiliation of those who pushed the resolution, but you can’t make that generalization for the whole country. It depends on your perspective, obviously. We need liberals to ensure that the right to choose is not taken away, that one day gays will be allowed to marry, that religion stays out of government, for example.

Mackie,
I believe they first try to obtain permission from the occupant to gain entry. If they aren’t allowed in, then they obtain a warrant. Fairfax County does have the info on their website. I saw it a few months back. The strike force is multiple departments working together. It be any of the following and some more agencies. Health Dept., Police Dept., Zoning, Building Code, Fire Marshall, Social Services, etc. I’ll see if I can’t find the info for you. I believe PWC was going to do a pilot program similar, but it was about the time all the tall grass was creeping up the complaint list.

Mackie,
Here’s an excellent starting point for the strike team. I hope it answer some questions for you. I will be looking at later.
http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/news/2008/149.htm

Thanks Chris

Wow, HSM is really starting to sound cultish on this thread. Chris, you are certainly entitled to your opinions and affiliations, but do you really think it took “courage” to stop going to meetings? The whole tone of this discussion makes it sound as if you are in some kind of recovery mode. I’m glad you are able to find here the love and support you need to make it through such a trying time, but really, you seem like an intelligent person capable of thinking for yourself. Did HSM really have that much of a hold on you?

Emma,

Actually, it was a very difficlut choice to make. I invested a great deal of my time, energy, etc. with HSM. I only need and want the love and support of those that REALLY matter my family! You are right, I am intelligent enough to think for myself. I can contribute to the community just the same without them. I do not approve of some of their recent tactics, which all started after my departure. I did more than stop going to meetings, dear. I asked by that mine and my husband’s names be removed from the membership list.

Do you miss seeing me at meetings or something?

Chris

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bax8FqBECd0

I’ve never been to a meeting, Chris, and I’ve never met you. I’m just wary that you are being made a poster child here. Hate to see you get used in the neverending quest by many here to ridicule and discredit another group that is exercising its free-speech and freedom-of-assembly rights. As an HSM member, you would have been vilified here; now they’re ready to kill the fatted calf for you while they milk you for information.

But I could be wrong.

Emma:

HSM is really starting to sound cultish on this thread.

I have it on good authority that GregL sacrifices one of the immigrants’ homegrown chickens before each meeting and takes a small doll that looks like Roberto Juarez and stabs it repeated with a sewing pin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zH9ktru-TEs

Chris,

HSM IS a cult. Don’t ever go back there! This is what they did to the last person who left the order…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0BukAy_dko

That’s quite an image, Mackie. Mi sento male.

Actually, I just met the guy last week on July 4. I didn’t see any horns or talons, and I came home still the same disagreeable Emma.

Makcie,

you are a trip! I am still giggling over the animal farm video/analogy. That was PRICELESS

We all learned this lesson with the movie ” Wizard of Oz” it was in yourself all along. All you have to do is believe

My favorite WOZ line:

Almira Gulch. Just because you own half the county doesn’t mean that you have the power to run the rest of us. For twenty-three years I’ve been dying to tell you what I thought of you! And now… well, being a Christian woman, I can’t say it!

Love the classics

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw0zZttfUaw

Emma,
You just said you’ve never met me. So, how is it you think anyone is milking me for information? I write my comments of my own free will here, and have never had them deleted. I can’t say the same for bvbl.
And my favorite WOZ line.”Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain”

Mackie,
I look at those videos a little later, and get back to ya.

Emma,

I can vouch that Greg is not a person with horns or talons. I can also vouch for Chris, that the Girl SPEAKS her mind!!!!! ( way before HSM) She isn’t missing and posted on some milk carton somehwere. She even said herself, her parents didn’t have to fear her being kidnapped as they would RETURN her…LOL

Anyway,no one fromm HSM with a respectable tongue or debate would get vilified on here. Ask Maureen! I give and she gets props

Elivs,

Sorry dude, it is that 8th grade education THANG ( typos)

Emma,

The horns and talons were in the Christmas Parade. Remember, that post, Auntie Em?
Red Dawn and I were talking about picking an angel from a tree for a child to get a Christmas gift. Guess what those comments were taken down. We mentioned how simple some of the items were that kids were requesting. Now, why would that have been deleted? Maybe, because two local gals such as RD and myself are compassionate? I have the slightest idea what was wrong with trying to share some charitable ideas at Christmas and for kids. Geez..

Chris, I was basing that on earlier posts in this thread, nothing else.

Courage! What makes a king out of a slave? Courage! What makes the flag on the mast to wave? Courage! What makes the elephant charge his tusk in the misty mist, or the dusky dusk? What makes the muskrat guard his musk? Courage! What makes the sphinx the seventh wonder? Courage! What makes the dawn come up like thunder? Courage! What makes the Hottentot so hot? What puts the “ape” in apricot? What have they got that I ain’t got?

Chris,

I never thought it would happen, that I was accused of being to compassionate ( only warned )but I have.
The only thing I can think of as far as the Christmas post, Krutis gave us props for getting in the Christmas spirit…breaking away from the thread of devils marching in the parade..who knows, who cares…

just a good ole GIRLS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNVQpQa5qdY

yoo hoo/red dawn..trouble posting links ( as in TOO many, lol)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrkX8axRMTg

Emma,
Sorry, I’m a little fiesty tonight. Forgive me.
I enjoyed the words of COURAGE you posted.

Chris,

Fiesty or fat broad? they both start with f! LOL

I wasn’t reading blogs back when the devils were marching, so I didn’t see that thread, Chris. I just remember the devil-creature running up to a little girl near me, and the child burst into tears. Inexcusable.

It’s bad enough picking on a straw man, but picking on a little dog!

This past Christmas Parade was only about the thrid or fourth one I’ve missed in my life.
I am glad I was not there to see the devil. Kids crying at a Christmas Parade is not my idea of fun. I do understand there are those that a scared of Santa, like some are scared of clowns. Kids crying is definately INEXUCASABLE!

Emma,
Is BVBL really the place you believe promotes reasonable discussion and sane solutions? Is Elvis, who consistently insults the women here on anti because of weight, really the type of person you want to be friendly with? Do you wonder why so many of us view Greg as an instigator of racism and hate? Maybe your immigrant ancestors came here as doctors and professional, mine did not, I guess that makes my ancestors non-contributors to this great nation. Yes, just imagine if “no one challenged this insanity” the insanity of the outright racism on BVBL directed at Latino’s.

More Mail
By Greg L | 13 July 2008 | Illegal Aliens, Prince William County | 46 Comments

Some of the items that land in my inbox really reinforce my firm conviction that working to reduce the number of illegal aliens unlawfully residing in our community is a vital community service. There are a shocking number of folks out there seeking to excuse a specific ethnic group from any requirement to comply with the law, a philosophy that is contrary to the foundational ideals of this nation, and which if codified into law would undoubtedly cause tremendous problems. To wit:

we latinos are makin the world a better place!
no damn white american guy would construct a school or any other buildings… when you see WE LATINOS working in construction we actualy work…all i see is the white guys smoking.
the crops come from latin america
and don’t forget GAS!
SO YOU NEED TO STOP COMPLAINING!
WE WERE HERE B4 ALL OF YOU..
WE ARE NATIVE AMERICANS!
JUS REMEMBER OCE UR GREAT GREAT GREAT GREATGREAT GRANDPARENTS WERE ONCE ILLEGAL!

Just imagine if no one bothered to challenge this insanity, and it became accepted as the politically-correct mainstream view. Would we continue to actually have a country, or would we be reduced to warring tribes scrapping over the smoking remnants of the United States of America?

The opinions expressed here are solely the views of the author, and not representative of the position of any organization, political party, doughnut shop, knitting guild, or waste recycling facility, but may be correctly attributed to the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy. If anything in the above article has offended you, please click here to receive an immediate apology.

You can follow the discussion through the Comments feed. You can also pingback or trackback from your own site.

46 Comments
BattleCat said on 13 Jul 2008 at 4:06 pm: Ahhh, a little something from the coordinators of the “Anti-Site”???

Dave in PWC said on 13 Jul 2008 at 5:25 pm: Keep up the good fight, you and HSM are making a difference, my neighborhood is coming back, people are walking around at night after dinner visiting with other neighbors out walking. No more flophouses that I can see. Drop me a line the next time you want to go demonstrate our first ammendment rights.

elvis said on 13 Jul 2008 at 5:25 pm: even the fat broads wouldnt cook up something so stupid. They ARE stupid but at least semi-literate. OK, I’ll concede they have at least a 8th grade education which is far more than the fool who wrote that letter.

manassascityresident said on 13 Jul 2008 at 5:40 pm: Hey Elvis -
Nice to see you over here!

Elvis said on 13 Jul 2008 at 6:56 pm: MCR,
Thanks…tired of playing in kindergarden. Those chicks are whack!

BattleCat said on 13 Jul 2008 at 6:58 pm: Dudes / Dudettes,
Our house just got nailed by lightning. That’ll make you mess yourself!

Emma said on 13 Jul 2008 at 7:32 pm: Yeah, the greatest and most powerful nation in the world became that way while the white guys just stood around smoking.
Hi, elvis.

CitizenofManassas said on 13 Jul 2008 at 7:46 pm: Wow, I suppose he would also say they are the only ones to rape 4 and 10 year olds.

Arlington Minority said on 13 Jul 2008 at 8:23 pm: I would strong commend to all BVBL readers and commenters the following article from “The Brussels Journal” which focuses on the Portland, Oregon mindset and concludes that our inability to control our borders, culture and language is slowly but surely causing America to voluntarily transform itself into a dysfunctional socialist Third World country.
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/3409

IllegalisILLEGAL said on 13 Jul 2008 at 8:51 pm: Yeah, just what we all want a third world country. I too welcome elvis. I love your songs!

manassascityresident said on 13 Jul 2008 at 8:54 pm: Battlecat – Are you ok? Hope so! Where exactly did it hit?

starryflights said on 13 Jul 2008 at 9:48 pm: What “fat broads” and “chicks” are you referring to. I know you are turning me off from this site. Other other women offended by this?

Red, White and Blue said on 13 Jul 2008 at 10:56 pm: Did I notice all the white people hanging around the 7/11s, Home Depots, and plazas? I must have missed them. The latinos must be hiding them in the crowd. Wow, and I never knew mexicans built America. I just need to look at Mexico, El Salvador and Honduras and I should have figured it out with their great roads, infrastructure, super cities, well dressed folks, fantastic wages, great colleges and a super police department as well as a the best in an outstanding political system -second to none! Thanks for bringing all this to America. Thanks for being here during World War II, building our highways, our skyscrapers, our cities and of course, growing all our crops over the decades. Those poor white people just sitting there and smoking. Now I understand, I see the picture and I smell the poop.
Let all the history book be changed. It wasn’t Jefferson and Washinigton, it was Jose and Julio. It wasn’t Edison, Ford but Juan and Roberto. Generlisimo Electricia, EBM, and Boeing Aero are all really mexicanto.
The Raylettes were right – “Hit the road Jack and don’t ya come back no more, no more, no more, no more, no more…..”
Got a job for you that Americans won’t do – believing your lies.

monticup said on 13 Jul 2008 at 11:42 pm: Red, White and Blue: This is the nonsense the illegals are fed. They actually believe that installing drywall means they built a country. It is childish thinking; very primitive and unsophisticated. Why they choose to come here to construct a country rather than focus on their own cesspools is a question they never address. These ignoramuses are in denial–I defy them to name ONE technological or scientific advance originating from Mexico or El Salvador. They can’t do it. On the other hand they’re good at growing marijuana. If only they would focus on growing coffee and mahogany. Then they really would be making a contribution.

long time said on 14 Jul 2008 at 6:46 am: we wouldn’t need to be building so many schools if the illegal aliens weren’t all having 10 children. At least the letter you received could have thanked the “smoking white guy” for paying taxes to build the school that his anchor baby children get to go.

zeezil said on 14 Jul 2008 at 7:40 am: Those writings (and thoughts?) reinforces the ignorance of the illegals and the fact that they come here with no education. After millions of our taxdollars spent to pump up their IQ by a point…it ain’t working!

IllegalisILLEGAL said on 14 Jul 2008 at 8:55 am: Can anyone tell me what new housing went in to cause the huge addition to Yorkshire elementary school? Or could it bethe overcrowding that is happening in that area?

What’s next said on 14 Jul 2008 at 9:09 am: starryflights – I would have to agree with you there… Can we stop calling people from the anti site names. Sure, disagree with them but calling them “fat broads” doesn’t do anything for the debate and just takes away from what is being said here. I don’t agree with most of what is said over there but I don’t think we need to be calling them names when ever someone refers to them.

NLH said on 14 Jul 2008 at 9:44 am: Red, White & Blue:
Well said. The Mexicans may have been on this soil many, many years ago, but the legal immigrants (our families) that came to this country built it and made the United States something so good that we are being over powered from legal immigrants to stay here. The illegal alien’s are the ones causing the confusion and problems. I still do not understand why there are those who want to give our country away!

anono said on 14 Jul 2008 at 10:44 am: “Let all the history book be changed. It wasn’t Jefferson and Washinigton, it was Jose and Julio. It wasn’t Edison”
Funny you should mention Edison.
http://fecha.org/edison.htm
“Most people believe Thomas Alva Edison was born in Milan, Ohio. But there is a legend in Mexico that “Tõmas” Alva was born in Lagos de Moreno, then taken to the U.S. as a toddler and adopted into the Edison family.”
There was some crackpot on Libertypost claiming that Edison was Mexican, so I had to look it up and sure enough, it’s a Mexican legend. I guess that goes right along with the legend of Aztlan.

anono said on 14 Jul 2008 at 10:45 am: “I defy them to name ONE technological or scientific advance originating from Mexico or El Salvador. They can’t do it.”
Sure they can. They’ll just make up something.

Mr. Anon said on 14 Jul 2008 at 10:46 am: NO, the Mexicans were not on this soil many, many years ago. People need to stop repeating this lie. Native Americans are not Mexicans. Mexicans are a mixed race consisting of indigenous (to Mexico) native populations and Spanish immigrants. The indigenous peoples of Mexico did not live in the US, and the tribes are disparate in their cultural beliefs, views, and religious practices from Native Americans.
The unfortunate problem is that illegals are being fed this line of BS and are starting to believe it.

Diversity Gal said on 14 Jul 2008 at 11:09 am: “I defy them to name ONE technological or scientific advance originating from Mexico or El Salvador. They can’t do it.”
Hmm…I think ANYONE can do it if they just do a little research. I found a lot of advances originating from Latin America. I looked around and found many references for the following Latin American contributions to the world (I left out the ones I could not find corroboration for):
architecture which inspired Frank Lloyd Wright
creation of the world’s first team sport
biogenetic domestication of corn into its modern form
astronomy style that influenced European astronomy after 1492
antispasmodic medicine for surgery
mandatory, universal education for both genders and all classes
first people in the world to use the number zero as part of their mathematics system
predated Europeans with a base 20 (vigesimal) math system
created the latex treatment to make rubber
I’m sure there are many more, but I would have to do more research. I am actually ashamed of myself that I haven’t taken the time up until now to educate myself about these contributions.
I think the history of Europeans in America is very important, but I also believe that we have to face facts. European-Americans (of which I am one) are the ones who recorded it, and so it is overwhelmingly Eurocentric. It is a shame that people seem to imply that their culture or ethnicity is better, simply because you can read more about it in reference material.

anono said on 14 Jul 2008 at 11:16 am: “first people in the world to use the number zero as part of their mathematics system”
Since when is India or ancient Babylon part of Latin America[1]?
[1]http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/59074.html[2]
[2]See, I have no problem citing my sources.[3]
[3]It’s fun.[4]
[4]Easy too.

anono said on 14 Jul 2008 at 11:36 am: The Mayans did not invent zero until 350AD–650 years after the Babylonians invented it in 300BC. [1]
[1] http://www.mediatinker.com/blog/archives/008821.html

Che’ said on 14 Jul 2008 at 12:58 pm: Come on anono, you are being eurocentric. Don’t actually check facts and provide references. Shame on you.
Did DG’s list come from the NCLR website?

CitizenofManassas said on 14 Jul 2008 at 1:14 pm: Diversity gal,
You should turn your opinions on the illegal not that those poked holes in his email.
Simply put, Mexico is a cess pool. Just this weekend, there was another rampage by a drug gang that killed a police chief and others. While we do have our own crime issues, it pales compared to Mexico and Central American Countries.
And for the record, nobody is “native” to North America, Central America, or South America.

Johnson said on 14 Jul 2008 at 1:25 pm: Who founded the United States of America? Whites. How many hispanic or african nations are as sucessful as the U.S. or Europe? Japan? China? Russia? Do the math, apologists. The rest of the world needs to rise to our level, not drag us down to theirs. Look at England, Italy, Germany and France. They’ve seen the error of their ways and are reversing the process.

Jae said on 14 Jul 2008 at 1:44 pm: I love how people expect us to respect their opinions but cannot even write it properly. Bad grammar and English when trying to put their opinions across only hurts their argument.

Diversity Gal said on 14 Jul 2008 at 1:46 pm: Sorry for the long delay, but I couldn’t post my response (it was blocked for some reason). Someone told me that if I split my website sources up, I may be able to get through. That is what I tried next. Unfortunately, it STILL did not work. So now I forced to provide no direct links, but to just list the names of the sites. I hope it works!
Anono, the tone of your post seemed a little teasingly aggressive, but here goes…
Evidence for zero being used by Mayans as a NUMBER (in use on its own) and not a PLACEHOLDER:
Wikipedia
School of Mathematical and Computational Sciences
University of St Andrews (a site called TURNBULL)
Ask a Scientist from Newton BBS
I can understand if you still don’t trust these resources. There are so many cultures who have made contributions to the history of zero, whether they used it as a placeholder or as a number on its own. I think the point is that Mayans made a valuable, independent (not derivative) contribution to mathematics. In any case, they did it WAY before Europeans did.
Here are some other contributions I found that were a bit more modern. They are from Wikipedia, which I know isn’t always accurate. I encourage people not to simply trust me, but to look things up if they find it interesting. It’s what we all should be doing, right? I sure hope that no one is taking any of the posted topics as fact without doing their own research.
Alejandro Corichi, Mexican physicist who contributed to the understanding of black holes
Guillermo Gonzalez Camarena, Mexican who invented one of the first color TVs
Luis E. Miramontes, Mexican chemist who coinvented progrestin (synthetic progestogen which can be used for oral contraception or hormone replacement therapy)
Ignacio Martin-Baro, Salvadoran priest and philosopher whose theory of social psychology influenced studies of community psychology worldwide

Diversity Gal said on 14 Jul 2008 at 1:55 pm: Oops, sorry for the typos!

monticup said on 14 Jul 2008 at 2:18 pm: I certainly would not go to wikipedia for my info. Didn’t you know wikipedia is notoriously inaccurate and easy to manipulate?
I apologize in advance for being Eurocentric but I wonder if DG’s brilliant inventors are Spanish or indigenous peoples. My point is that hunter-gathering peasant types that find their way to our country are good mainly for low skilled labor. They rapidly outlive their usefulness and then become a burden to the US. Using humans for mindless labor is terribly inefficient economically. We need people who can design, manufacture, maintain and repair the machines to do the work. Mechanize, mechanize, mechanize.

monticup said:

My point is that hunter-gathering peasant types that find their way to our country are good mainly for low skilled labor. They rapidly outlive their usefulness and then become a burden to the US. Using humans for mindless labor is terribly inefficient economically. We need people who can design, manufacture, maintain and repair the machines to do the work. Mechanize, mechanize, mechanize.

Wow, what a naked bigot. Hunter-gatherers? WTF is he talking about? Has anyone seen anybody in our county running around with spears and bows? If there are any hunters here it’s HSM. They hunt working class immigrants…and they do covet them as trophies…

Elena, seriously, hate goes around both sides. For example, I’ve been called racist here, my imninent death celebrated gleefully by a younger poster here, even though I’m only in my 40s–that kind of stuff is no better or worse than what elvis throws out to get attention. And I don’t think either side is “right,” and I think people need to be called out when they express extremes, like the person who sent the above email to Greg. I’ve also read a number of posters here making fun of the way people look and talk, making fun of their names, but I still manage to have a dialogue with those posters, too. Hard to learn anything if we don’t talk to each other. Just an opinion from another da** white g(al).

Emma, oddly enough I remember that little girl at the Christmas parade being discussed and written about. Suddenly, I don’t believe you are the quite the newcomer you would have us think you are. Frankly, I don’t want church people accosting my children either.

Now why is it that you feel Chris’s head is being picked for information? Why is it that you name Chris instead of Red Dawn? Sounds to me like black velvet information rather that just reading between the lines.

What do you think?

Interesting, CSF, now I’m part of the vast right-wing conspiracy or something. My teenager and I both saw a little girl burst into tears when the devil creature got in her face. I’m pretty sure that’s not what the kid had been looking forward to all morning. But I’m sure you’re right, that she would have been the only child in the ENTIRE parade route to react that way, and she was just a figment of my imagination anyway. Believe as you wish.

I don’t know what you are a member of. God only knows.

However, you skipped the critical question. Now why is it that you feel Chris’s head is being picked for information? Why is it that you name Chris instead of Red Dawn? Sounds to me like black velvet information rather that just reading between the lines.

Car Scratch Fever, that reference to the Christmas parade does sound familiar…

I already explained that in my dialogue with Chris. I don’t know what Red Dawn has to do with what I was saying.

Emma:

My teenager and I both saw a little girl burst into tears when the devil creature got in her face.

You mean how the children of immigrants were bursting into tears at the BOCS in october when they were begging the BOCS not to deport their parents?

Emma,

I think I have made my point. I don’t know why you would think Chris would be brain-picked and Red Dawn not. The point was made that both left the Order of the Red Circle.

Interesting concept, that of the poster child. Perhaps you would be surprised to learn how long Chris has been commenting on this blog. She went by another moniker. She is not a newbie here.

You are aware that this blog is not associated with any organization?

I didn’t know the BOCS had the power to deport anyone. You’re drawing a spurious relationship here, but if it gives you something to get excited about today, by all means.

Apparently Corey doesn’t realize he can’t deport anyone. Listen to that video on the first thread. The children did not know the exact details of how deportation worked. They thought the bocs held the power in their hands.

I agree with you that the devil at the Christmas parade was bad form. It is also past history.

Yes, it is past history that Chris happened to bring up in the first place, and I responded to it.

Emma,
What can I say. I heard the “horns and talon” bit and thought about the devil in the Parade. I had no idea it would’ve turned into all of this.

Neither did I, Chris. I’m just responding to the nitpickers here.

I too can be nitpicky. Can’t we all at times?

Emma:

I didn’t know the BOCS had the power to deport anyone. You’re drawing a spurious relationship here, but if it gives you something to get excited about today, by all means.

The relationship is definitely not spurious. The BOCS made it possible for the deportation process to begin for something as trivial as jaywalking.

Please stop ignoring my point and trying to change the subject by insulting me.

How can you ignore the tears of children who see their parents leave for work in the morning without knowing if they’ll be coming home?

Indeed, Mackie, not spurious at all.

From an article in the WaPo today about how immigrants here illegally are taking measures to prepare for the risk of deportation:

They are designating who should take custody of their children, indicating what should be done with cars and homes, ensuring that relatives have power of attorney to access bank accounts and key documents, and memorizing phone numbers they might need to call from jail. Some are sending their U.S.-born children for visits to their home countries so they could adapt more easily if the family is suddenly forced to move back.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/14/AR2008071402427.html

What makes you think I am ignoring anyone’s tears, mackie? You are drawing conclusions on your own to try to back me into some kind of corner that has no relationship to my earlier discussion. It wasn’t intended to be that global, but you can run with it if it gives your day meaning. Have fun.

Emma,
You can choose to create this pretend “hate” that happens on this blog, but we are absolutely nothing like BVBL. If the truth hurts, that many posters on BVBL use language IDENTICAL to white power groups, that is not my doing, that is the doing of their own fingers and what they type. Greg promotes that kind of prejudice, that simple. Be buddy buddy with Elvis, if that is really the type of person you choose to defend, it says alot about you Emma. Furthermore, Rod was clearly being sarcastic and actually apologized to you for his “elderly” comment. Please, we don’t call people cockroaches based on their ethnicity or degrade their children by calling them parasites, or suggest people are dog food, disease ridden, stupid, having no contribution to mankind, peasants, and on and on, soley based on their hispanic heritage.

Many of us have empathized with several posters here, concerned about their neighborhoods, offered neighborhood solutions, and yet, many of those same people take NO action to learn about the help that is out there.

Welll, I don’t choose to view everything in extremes, as you seem to assume, Elena. I think there are worthwhile opinnions on both blogs. I don’t think I’m “defending” the things that you find objectionable simply by saying that people have the right to express those things. Elvis says what he says to get attention, in the same way that some posters here freely throw out the words “racist,” “nativist,” the way they ridicule the way people speak and look when caught on camera at an odd moment, etc. You can deny that it happens, but if I felt like spending the time (which I don’t) I could easily find many posts to back up what I am saying.

There is so much concern about the feelings of illegal immigrants–ok, fine, that is humane–but sometimes no concern for the feelings of posters who have a difference of opinion and some genuine concerns about the effects of illegal immigration. Do you suppose that Mackie’s response to me on this thread would help win me over to his point of view? Look back at what was said, and put yourself in my shoes for a moment, and see how someone might be put off and maybe a little more alienated by that sort of talk. Maybe Mackie feels like he scored one, but at what cost? To lose ground someone who was willing to listen to you all in the first place, and who has taken the time to find some common ground here?

I was offended by the devil thing in the Christmas parade, and I only mentioned it because Chris brought it up, and all of a sudden it gets turned into my lack of compassion for children whose parents might get deported. And you would wonder why I would think, “WTF?”

Emma, some of the people who have had various things mentioned about them (speech, etc) have made some pretty hideous remarks about individuals here. The question asked by Kgottahardt was very kind in comparison to some of the things that person said about her and others. She didn’t make fun. She inquired what was wrong.

Elvis is being shunned. He doesn’t play well with others and attempts to harrass and intimidate several of the people here.

I think most, not all posters here have compassion for other posters. You either have to ignore them or tell them off. I don’t think you have crossed the administration over on bvbl. Wait till that happens. We will look like a Sunday school picnic.

You might want to check out what happened with Diversity Gal over there. She had a different point of view–a polite different point of view.

I read that thread, MH. Honestly, what did she expect after posting the same information multiple times? I got the impression she was baiting them, and I don’t see where anyone insulted her personally. Greg’s response was obviously tongue-in-cheek. What if I repeatedly posted articles here about recent crimes perpetrated by hispanics? What could I expect for a response?

Emma,

I don’t mind if you want to get into an insult contest with me. I would enjoy it.

McCain is Awesome, He risks his career by refusing to bow down to the bigots, We need more Republicans like him, I Myself am an extremely conservative person but I supported the Amnesty Bill.

Last word on McCain and immigration…

Immigration is one of the few issues Bush got right. The fact that McCain got it right also is not a strike against McCain. The Anti-Immigrant Lobby has been sitting in the corner of the GOP class room for decades, and only because of the disastrous Bush administration did they ever even come close to seizing control of the party.

During the primary, McCain got beat up a lot for having a sensible approach to the immigration issue. But he stuck to his guns. The closest he came to a pulling a Mitt “Bend-Over” Romney was saying he “learned his lesson” and saying today he would vote against the McCain Kennedy path to citizenship bill. Mitt “Bend-Over” Romney, made a deal with the Anti-Immigrant Lobby after their previous piss boy Tancredo dropped out of the race. Now McCain is considering the Bend-Over Boy for V.P. Danger, danger.

This is especially troubling to me because on other fronts, McCain is showing a weakness for powerful special interests like Big Oil, and the Mortgage Lobby that put us in the current foreclosure crisis. This is kind of desperation that put Romney in the Bend-Over position with the Anti-Immigrant Lobby (F.A.I.R., Numbers USA, etc.).

Choosing Mitt “Bend-Over” Romney as V.P. is not a maverick move. It is a Bend-Over move. McCain’s dubious relationship with corporate lobbyists seems to be a necessity that is unavoidable. But if he thinks he can lightly pander to the Anti-Immigrant Lobby by tapping Romney for number two on the ticket, we are all in trouble. As Corey Stewart learned, if you give these people an inch, they take over the campaign.

What happens if “Bend-Over” Romney assumes the position vis a vis the Anti-Immigrant Lobby? Will McCain be there to straighten Romney’s back for him? I hope we don’t have to find out.

Emma:

She was having trouble posting. She asked several questions about posting here. I know several people that has happened to. You post, you don’t think it went through, you post again. Actually you are in moderation. Most experienced bloggers have had it happen to them. How was she baiting them?

As for tongue in cheek, sorry, I do not buy that. Are pit vipers tongue in cheek? It was nasty. Consider Mackie’s comments to you tongue in cheek.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~:<

Mackie, do whatever you need to do to feel big. Wallow in your vindictiveness. Have at it.