Anti-BVBL

Since the article about Manassas City neighborhood services director Kisha Wilson-Sogunro and her young volunteers appeared in the WaPo, she has had many people call and ask about how they can help their community instead of calling in complaints. As the young volunteers made their way through neighborhoods, people sent their children out to help as well. And then they helped. Kisha might be a good starting point for suggestions for cleaning up impacted neighborhoods. Maybe she’d be willing to write a short list of suggestions though I imagine she has a full schedule.

I think that because the children came here with open minds and a desire to help, they contacted the folks that needed help. They didn’t look at a messy yard and judge the people. They asked if the homeowners needed help in removing the messes and then helped to remove the mess. Maybe it’s time to get younger people more involved. They seem to carry less baggage and they have the energy to get things done. (And they shame all the folks who just sit back and b!tch.) There must be several youth groups that could be willing to tackle some of these neighborhood problems.

I think there probably need to be a few well publicized seminars on immigration to dispel some of the info that circulates out there. I’d include spokespeople from the federal government as well as from universities and the business communities.

“we will not fix the immigration reform debate from a local standpoint.” - WRONG. We have made IMMENSE progress in making PWC a more lawful place, with NO support from either political party at the State or Federal level. Turns out communities CAN choose to enforce the law.

“solutions that will unite us as opposed to divide us” - IMPOSSIBLE. I will resist Amnesty or any type of reward for lawbreaking, as will most Americans, and that won’t change. It’s as if you’re proposing to give free housing next door to average Americans to ex-cons after letting them out of prison, and expecting us to pay for it (or subsidize it, more accurately). And some minority of you can’t agree to enforce current law, and you have the elitists on both parties riling you up and helping to falsely define the issue. The division between us may get much worse, it sure won’t get better until US law gets enforced.

“Part of the solution must involve the Latino community, so I hope that people will come up with some innovative ideas. ” Here’s one. Stop pretending that all Latino citizens support Amnesty or reward for lawbreaking, as many do not. And stop sympathizing with and providing any credence to those who do. Let’s communicate the fact that America is a nation of laws, which must be respected - as opposed to communicating the racial victim mentality so evident for example on Fernandez’ sign.

“Some of the issues that need to be addressed are day laborer sites and a more dignified location for people to look for work, ” Only for legal workers.

“overcrowding issues” Enforce US law. PS overcrowding is in and of itself a result of illegal immigration and the only real solution is to provide disincentive for illegal immigration.

“language barriers” Encourage use of English and for God’s sake don’t provide government sanction for use of other languages. Drivers liscence tests in Spanish? Asinine.

“community healing” will never happen until average people see their govenmnet respond to their needs, not those of the cheap labor pool.

“immigration education” Teach everyone, even the youngest schoolkids, that America is a nation of laws, and these laws are not jokes.

Look this issue straight in the face, stop pretending there is some genteel solution. People are coming over here from nations with lesser standards of living, and propogating them into our cities. It is in some sense bringing us closer to third-world conditions. We can absorb some number of legal immigrants but not nearly so many as are coming in. It contributes towards a wage gap and degradation of life for lower and middle class Americans, and is only tolerated because it drives wages down.

There is NO PLACE in our communities - save certain liberal jurisdictions - for these people. They should go back home.

So long as they stay, overcrowding and conflict and friction will predominate, and poverty will rise in America, ands wages will stagnate. The rich will get richer, if that’s what you want.

Anger management seminars…they need to be incorporated into any solution.

Imagine 5 years ago someone says to you “Hey I know how we can increase the poverty rate in America, reduce wages for working people, increase the gap between rich and poor, introduce a massive strain on hospitals and on health care prices, introduce a large strain on local school systems, and create a subculture of working poor who speak their own language and can’t even communicate effectively with us or with our law enforcement system”.

Would you have said “Let’s go for it! I think it’ll promote a greater sense of inclusion and diversity in my community and make me feel good about myself”.

If your are going to make a Day Labor site, you proablly better do it with complete private funding. Herndon’s Day Labor model was really good, it’s flaw was in using tax dollars to fund it. the general perception in the community is that, though they may disagree with helping Illegal Immigrants in general, if it’s a interfaith or private group doing the help, there is really nothing that can be done to stop it.

The Herndon Model was set up with the communities best interest in mind because an Organized site…

-Keeps workers off the streets.

-Allows you to screen workers to seperate those who want to work from those who want to scam.

-Allows law enforcement to obtain information on the general mood of the working community and perhaps information on the criminal element within it.

-provides insurance that workers are not cheated.

The Herndon site was run by a charity organization. The general site manager had served high up in the U.S. Peace Core and could speak about three diffrent languages but his deputy managers were picked from amoung the workers themselves. There was a shelter for bad weather and a trailer that served as a classroom for learning safety and English skills for those who wanted help during the lull.

The Worker Center was equal oppertunity, Nationality was never in question, no matter who you are, if you needed day work, you were allowed to use the center.

I was involved in the early discussions about the nature of the site so i know a little bit about the logistics of how the Herndon Model was to opperate in general.

Unfortunatly, the town made it very difficult to find a perfect site. Some of the best sites were zoned for upper scale development. Ironically some of the origional sites they denied us are still overgrown empty lots to this day. The Local churches who were interested in voulenteering space were in the middle of either historic districts or resedential areas so the zoning regulations usurped their good intentions. In the end the town agreed on a location that was doomed to fail. It was in a location far from the working class neighborhoods, it was hard to enter and leave in an organized fasion and to top it off, the now defunct “Herndon Minutemen” were out there with their cameras on a daily basis, then dwindled to a once a monthly basis. The Police depertment really disliked them and the DHS thought they were a joke. The IRS accecpted their photos and reports but never took action, but despite all this, many contractors avoided the worker center.

I know a PWC worker center, even privately funded and located on private property with ample parking in an industrial district would still draw protest, but I would like to point out, we are not living in 1999 anymore, many people who at one time thought themselves an unstoppable success are finding themselves on the street. G-d forbid, but it could happen to you and me. These centers should not be designed to only cater to a Latino Working Community, they should be a place where everyone can find quick low-skill jobs. These should be places where, if circumstances were tough, you would not feel uncomfortable being there. Fixing our economy will require an army of dedicated workers at all levels, and our Army runs fine on a don’t ask don’t tell policy. The immigration status should not be an issue, the dedication to working an honest job should be the prime focus. The bad elements in society will become more marginalized and leave the community on their own accord.

Those who really want to help build, maintain and live in a strong community will remain and proove themselves…you just got to give them a chance. Herndon never did, but you could succede where we failed.

I’ll leave securing the borders to someone else, but this is my opinion on how to deal with an awkward situation in the near future.

-R

Rick, we made PWC an embarrassing place of intolerance, fear, and fiscal ruin.

1. Censored, YES! Anger management calsses.

2. My church offers a course called “Non-violent communication.” I’m taking it. It will help diffuse anger. It will not reduce actual threats, I am afraid, because people who threaten usually do not want to remedy the situation. They have other issues.

3. Pick up trash.

4. Call the Prince William Clean Community Council (702) 792-6272 and ask how you can help.

5. Volunteer to teach ESOL courses.

6. Smile at people in the streets and say hello no matter what language you think they might speak.

7. Don’t “report” people automatically or based on suspicion of immigrant status. Talk to them first. If the situation isn’t remedied, THEN call.

8. Don’t participate in BVBL or other anger-based, hate-based collections of people. If you think this is a hate-based blog, then don’t participate. Do your own positive thing.

9. Write letters to your local and state reps. Give them ideas for immigration reform. Do so logically. Give reasons why you think your ideas will work and what SPECIFIC problems you are trying to address.

10. “Love thy neighbor as thyself.” No one said it would be easy, especially when you think you are combating what you might consider “evil.” Sometimes you can “love thy neighbor” by ignoring them. Other times, as we see here, agree to disagree or just discuss logically even if you do not agree. TRY to control anger. Again, this isn’t easy. I know!

11. Try to clear up miscommunications. People might take this as your attempt to justify yourself, but state, “I am trying to clear up miscommunications.” If they cannot accept that, then it’s their problem.

12. Don’t generalize. Don’t use words like “all” and “every one” and the sweeping “they” or “those people.”

” think there probably need to be a few well publicized seminars on immigration to dispel some of the info that circulates out there.”

Unity in the Community
in collaboration with
George Mason University
Manassas Campus
University Life
presents
Crossing the Line
An Immigration Film Series
at the
George Mason University Manassas Campus, Verizon Auditorium

Sat, Aug. 2, 7:30 p.m. Da Nadie — Prepare for the journey as an unknown, a nothing, no one. Prepare to leave everything behind and travel alone. Prepare to face the same intimidation when you cross into the United States–if you live through it.

Sun, Aug. 3, 2:30 p.m. Letters From the Other Side — A much-needed examination of the collateral damage of illegal immigration, sensitive. effective and emotionally potent. John Anderson, Variety

Sat, Aug. 9, 7:30 p.m. Golden Venture — A shipload of immigrants runs aground creating a media circus and symbol of a growing national concern over undocumented immigration.

Sun, Aug. 10, 2:30 p.m. Ramchand Pakistani — A true story of the accidental crossing of the Pakistan-Indian border, two members of a Pakistani Hindu family belonging to the ‘untouchable’ (Dalit) caste, and the extraordinary consequences of this unintended action on the lives of a woman, a man, and their son..

Sat, Aug. 16, 7:30 p.m. Alienated: Undocumented Immigrant Youth —
Undocumented immigrant youth face the challenges of life after high school without options for legalized work or college.
and Beyond the Border — Latinos seeking a better life have migrated to Kentucky, for low-paying jobs in the tobacco, manufacturing and horse racing industries. As Latino communities swell, so does the xenophobia and discrimination they face.

Sun, Aug. 17, 2:30 p.m. Under the Same Moon — The reunion of 9-year-old Carlitos and his mother, Rosario, who works as an illegal domestic in Los Angeles.

Sat, Aug. 23, 7:30 p.m. Farmingville — The shocking hate-based attempted murders of two Mexican day laborers catapult a small Long Island town into national headlines,

Sun, Aug. 24, 2:30 p.m. To Be Announced

Following the films, join discussions facilitated by students from George Mason’s Institute for Conflict Analysis and Resolution.

Rick
You know as well as anybody that the jobs being ‘taken’ by illegal immigrants are not the jobs that effect the lower middle classes. When were the middle classes picking fruit, working in meat processing or cleaning dishes?
Your anger is misplaced and your argument ill-founded.

13. Fiddle while Rome burns

uk visa, actually my mother-in-law used to work as a janitor, a family friend used to work in landscaping, I know people who worked in meat processing plants in the past, and I myself worked at McDonalds when i was a teenager. All job paths more or less gone in areas like ours where illegal aliens dominate the lower paying jobs.

Well, here’s one way we can ALL help the county out. Every neighborhood including the “gated/golf” communities have FORECLOSURED properties sitting empty. The county has a form that you can fax to Neighborhood Services. I am attaching the link for those of us that live near these vacant properties. I’ve witnessed squatters for months, and then finally the police came and took away a prostetute, her “john”, and her “pimp” if you will.

We must all take an active and positive roll in our communities here’s one of many ways to start. Please, take the time to help the county out with our 7,000+ foreclosure properties in the county.
Here’s the link for the Neighborhood “Eyes and Ears” Checklist for Vacant Houses.
http://www.pwcgov.org/docLibrary/PDF/008268.pdf

KG, thanks for the information on the film series.

Thanks for the link, Chris.

Rick, it seems to me that you feel that Hispanic People are genetically prone to be criminals and only survive in third world climates… Is that true, is that what you believe?

You also seem to be implying the USA is a cut above all other nations, the most technologically advanced, the most moral, the most wealthiest, But all of this technology and consumables are produced outside of the U.S. Do we have the infrastructure now to imediatly cut off all trade relations with the rest of the world and produce our own technology and materials?

No we don’t, those are factories that have to be built and staffed by our citizens. Do you know how to build a microchip? A capacitor? do you know how to assemble a mother board? neither do most Americans, they will have to be taught.

Are you willing to pick apples 10 hours a day at $7.00 an hour, or are you willing to pay $10.00 per apple at the grocery store so an American worker can get and American wage?

And lastly, would you be proud of your son or daughter if they spent the rest of their lives working on an assembly line inspecting the plastic red handles of “Dora the Explorer” lunch boxes, even though the job you worked was much better than theirs?

Keeping America running on her current rate of consumption and living the current standard of American living is impossible, on an internal workforce alone is immposible. We can have a strong internal economy, but it will come at the price of loosing our materialistic lifestyles… which is fine with me, but are you ready to have one car per family again? Are you willing to live in a smaller house or appartment? Are you ready to take a pay cut and learn how to live on a budget, grow your own produce, base your life on what’s in biking distance?

You may not be ready Rick, but your kids will need to be for by choice of nesessity we will have to stop our capitalist lifestyles, But America would do well to do it without burning bridges with the rest of the world. There may come a black day when a more powerful east invades us and steals our national resources. A stronger fair trade union with our neighbors and a peaceful working relationship with the rest of the world would lesson the odds of that happening, but be warned, we are living in a Neutron age, it is possible to wipe out the Americans and keep America for yourself, espcially when you are using global capitalism to fatten America up like a blind hog, a hog being eyed for the slaughter.

We have got to wise up.

Great comment ROD
Keeping America running on her current rate of consumption and living the current standard of American living is impossible, on an internal workforce alone is immposible. We can have a strong internal economy, but it will come at the price of loosing our materialistic lifestyles… which is fine with me, but are you ready to have one car per family again? Are you willing to live in a smaller house or appartment? Are you ready to take a pay cut and learn how to live on a budget, grow your own produce, base your life on what’s in biking distance?

On the upside of this, imagine how much healthier we’d all be!!

I heard that America lost 400k jobs last year. But, that small business increased by 200k. Problem there is that I don’t know how many of either were full time positions and the small business probably doesn’t provide health care or retirement options. Just like the Wal-mart employment method - part time positions with limited benefits.

“it seems to me that you feel that Hispanic People are genetically prone to be criminals and only survive in third world climates” No

“You also seem to be implying the USA is a cut above all other nations, the most technologically advanced, the most moral, the most wealthiest,” Yes

“Do we have the infrastructure now to imediatly cut off all trade relations with the rest of the world and produce our own technology and materials?” If we had to - we’d do better than they would

“would you be proud of your son or daughter if they spent the rest of their lives working on an assembly line inspecting the plastic red handles of “Dora the Explorer” lunch boxes, even though the job you worked was much better than theirs? ” Conceivably, yes. See unlike some of you I am not willing to completely abandon our weakest citizens

Rick,

I totally agree. They are focusing on Hispanics here. Oh the poor Hispanics! they cannot do anything without anti-bvbl’s help! I’ll say that’s hogwash, many hispanics I know are just as adamant about illegal immigration as you or I. They dont want anyones help as they are proud people who make themselves on the backs of themselves, not others. The illegals know that people like the blog owners will come to their defense because there are always people out there looking for a cause to support. Look at Nancy Lyall, she migrated from helping the gays out to now focusing on helping illegals. and one of the blog owners here is active in environmental stuff and anti-development which was what put her in touch with corey stuart. and what about other immigrants? koreans, etc…what are they saying about them? nothing!

illegals count on people to back them up, oh the poor babies.

What is wrong with helping people and the environment, Elvis? Some people believe that is our purpose on this planet. If people don’t WANT our help, that is something different. Those who don’t want help usually communicate it.

I’d help gays if I could, but the most I can do is defend my friends from discrimination and hatred best I can.

I’m tired of people getting picked on, Elvis. I don’t want to live in a world where we destroy our planet and one another because we refuse to find solutions.

Hey Elvis, glad to see you. Would you mind answering the outstanding questions posed to you about the many many officers that think Elena is smoking something??? Or is it just your MO to drop in, spew rhetoric and make parting shots????? Looking for some substance here pal to be able to deal with you…..

elvis, 6. July 2008, 12:37
the bottom line is that illegals DO hang out in front of the stores, usually around the marumsco area. the 7-11’s are horrible as is tacos ricos moya or whatever it’s called. I would have to say that elena’s description of her ride-along is a fallacy, it’s what “she” saw, everyone see’s with different eyes and apparently she thinks everything is ok. I guess she doesnt get out of haymarket much. have the cops take you out at night, like after 10pm and then you’ll see something. I think you got the standard company tour because I know MANY PWC police officers who think you are smoking something. why dont you tell us the officers name who escorted you on your ride along so we may verify if that’s what he really told you? I would hazard a really good guess he gives us a different story. am I calling you a liar? not completely, but I think you are seriously embellishing things to cover your agenda. I mean cant you just leave the illegals alone and go back to saving the tree’s or something?

I can’t imagine how anyone could consider themselves to be pro-environment and controlled growth, yet support the scheme to use illegal aliens to create wage disparity and to enable continued construction.

Rick,
You believe that the “USA is a cut above all other nations, the most technologically advanced, the most moral, the most wealthiest” but your mother-in-law used to work as a janitor. Is she American? If she is how do you justify that the system calls her “middle class”? I don’t want to sound elitist and I don’t see a janitor below me. In fact, a lot of janitors are my friends where I work because I speak Spanish. You said it right, illegal aliens dominate the lower paying jobs. You have to recognize that capitalism put some individuals into this situation (low class economically speaking), right? The problem is that the global economy is challenging our politically correct views about society. We have a marginalized group of people who cannot do anything but to compete for these low paying jobs. It is not a problem that illegal aliens are taking those jobs and bringing the wages down. The real problem is that we have a group of individuals in our society who we have failed. We have told them that they are part of our society but the “most wealthiest” nation doesn’t share a piece of the pie with them. We have lived in this fictional world in which we are sold the idea that Americans can achieve anything. That is a problem when you don’t have the schools or the system to support the poorest in America.
You can get rid of all immigrants today and the system won’t change. Why? Because we depend on that hierarchy that puts some people in the bottom of our economy.
Do you believe that the market will fix itself and suddenly a janitor in DC will make $60,000 (to survive in the DC area)? It is not about offer and demand but greed (See the oil industry).
We lived so many years in this imaginary world just because no other country challenge our power(Now even the Canadian dollar is worth more than the US Dollar).
For a moment I wish we could get rid of all illegal aliens so we can unmask all the fallacies we are fed every day.

In a smarter U.S. economy there would be no reason for your Children to have to work on red plastic handles for “Dora” lunch boxes because WE DON”T REALLY NEED THEM!!!!!

We should build, weave, carve, mold, sew or forge our kids a lunch box , the rest of the world seems to be able to do this, why can’t we?

Because your child’s attitude on consumption starts with you. First you have to raise them to be proud of themselves, that they should care less when other kids make fun of them for not posessing that got-to-have “Ben 10″ backpack or “barbie lunch box.” If we work hard to make a rebel life of non consumption the “Cool” trend, it will catch on. All of us must re-asess what is the definition of the “American Dream”? It used to be as broad as the rights to life, liberty and the persuit of happiness. Then we valued capital over these rights and made it near impossible for anyone to live a life outside of meaningless production and consumption.

I think we should take the Buhtan Approach, be more concerned with gross national happiness over gross national product. Though you can’t take your fortune with you, I believe hapiness can work as wealth beyond the grave.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=CXJwNSkdTH0

capitalism. uh-huh. Now here’s why I’m so mad.

We collectively agreed on laws that would protect our lower-paid workers and enable them a decent living. It’s no surprise to me that the rich want to abandon those agreements. But to allow them to do it by just FAILING TO ENFORCE laws they SWORE TO UPHOLD is disgusting.

If there is an honest debate and Amnesty becomes law of the land (for the 17th time) that’s one thing. But what is happening is a dishonest manipulation of Americans by their elitist “leaders”, who are lowering wages and chasing votes.

I agree with you that the “war on poverty” is a fiction. But that doesn’t excuse our leaders from TRYING to do the things they PRATTLE ON about and MANIPULATE people based on. Both parties are in collusion against the American people. I’m not willing to swallow that status quo. Go defend America in Iraq to protect Shell Oil’s interests, while your home town becomes a sanctuary area for illegals without any vote or public discussion. The heck with that.

“It’s no surprise to me that the rich want to abandon those agreements. But to allow them to do it by just FAILING TO ENFORCE laws they SWORE TO UPHOLD is disgusting.”

Agree all the way on this Rick. Problem is, ethical capitalism has become an endangered species. Our government and employers stomp on the basic rights of people and call it “free market.”

The “war on poverty” won’t be effective until our leaders change their minds about whom they want to serve—-the people or the corporations. Right now, the system doesn’t serve most of us via corporations because the corporations are not engaging in ethical capitalism.

For the first time Rick, we agree on something! We need a real War on Poverty. We might not be affected by it but it is always in the background. It comes to light when we have situations such as Katrina. I have been in so many neighborhoods that people resort to gates to protect their “islands”.
We need to start by teaching people to “think”. We should be capable of challenging what we are told. We will pay for the Iraq war and we won’t get a lot out of it.

I am going to have to have a change in name to “Chasing Elvis”. Just can’t get that boy to answer a question. Maybe he is a politician?

Juturna,

Remember “The Patriot” would call out those that didn’t answer his questions.
Yet, he never answered the question asked of him about attending GL’s church. The Patriot or at least that moniker has disappeared I wonder did the devil get him.

Maybe, “Elvis” is a figment of one’s imagination.

Here’s some more useful information and links from the PWC Neighborhood Services.
http://www.pwcgov.org/default.aspx?topic=010013000250004020

PWC’s Neighborhood Services Publications

Neighborhood Services provides publications for communities to use to inform their residents on topics related to neighborhood improvement and community building. Click the links below to view the publications. Articles may be reprinted - we just ask that you give Prince William County the credit given. If you don’t see a publication that you think would benefit neighborhoods contact the Neighborhood Coordinator at 703-792-6892.

Neighborhood News - Current and Archive
Approaching Neighbors on Difficult Topics
DID YOU KNOW? Common Code Violations
¿SABÍA QUÉ? Comunes Violaciones
Over Occupancy Flyer
Complaint Form for Property Violations
Neighborhood Resource Guide
The Difference Between Neighborhood Associations and Homeowner Associations
HOA / Condominium Transition Information
HOA Common Area Transition Flowchart
Graffiti Prevention Strategies
Responding to Graffiti
Recognizing Tagger and Gang Graffiti
Trash - Out of Sight!
Twelve Tips to Improve Your Neighborhood

On a local level, the coolest, most unique or socially and spiritually bennificial jobs all seem to be low pay or part time jobs. I would love to work a part-time or low pay job where I could help people and do something I love, but the standard of living in Fairfax County is SOOOO High, many people have no choice but to hunt for those high paying corporate jobs just to afford a small place. I refuse to work in government contracting, the clandestine services or weapons production corporations, so my choices of labor are limited, which is why I work in State Education, but I still can’t afford to rent a decent place yet.

We need to find ways to preserve a quality of life, but lower the cost. We need to de-vest in these giant corporate chain franchises and focus on small local business. My attempts to get education jobs in countries where I could live on an educators sallary have not worked out, so I’m moving to plan “B” trying to find a way to live a life without excess consumption so I can move to a part-time or low pay job that I enjoy and respect.

Even something as simple as growing your own produce can reduce your reliance on market consumption, it takes time, but good things are worth waiting for.

I also try to be socially minded when I shop, I try to invest in local products and produce. It’s too bad the Farmers Markets seem to happen only on Thursday Mornings, I can never get off of work to go and shop. I guess the thought still is there is at least one Woman or Man in the family who is home during the day, who can go out on Thursday and shop. How many of us are so busy that we can only shop on weekends?

I also invest in “Fair Trade” products which are made with ingredients cultivated in third world countries paid for as if they were farmed here. These Items can be a bit pricy, but I know the money is going to help hungry people, so we both eat that night.

Social investment and curbing consumption are just a few small things we can do Right Now to start reform. The best influence you can have on your neighbors and family is through self-example.

That said, let’s start having micro economy parties. Save some money so that your family can get together with other families on Friday night and go in groups to local resturants. Some of us will hit up American Fare, others International. I tend to switch between a local Afgan “All You Can Eat” Buffet and a Persian Kabob resturant once or twice a week for lunch.

Be one up on your co-workers, bike or walk to lunch…or at least carpool (I would if anyone else here was brave enough to hit up an Afgan AYCE Buffet)

They may not be the richest, brightest or good looking people in the area, but these local workers are our neighbors, they are our brothers and sisters in humanity. Investing in their wellbeing is investing in your own. And for those of us who have faith, for what you do in this life, you will be twice rewarded in the afterlife, so matter how small a deed.

That goes for good and for evil…

“we have situations such as Katrina.”

Let’s not forget Iowa.

Chris

Yeah, what ever happened to Patriot?? or Legal2, Monticup, or all the others???? Victims of multiple personalities or did they just wise up????

“We need to de-vest in these giant corporate chain franchises and focus on small local business.”

Right on!

Iowa. The red state where they want less government in their lives at election time. Well, they are now moving toward being a blue state. Guess they’ve had a few disasters in their time - enough to know where their bread is buttered.

Katrina - how much worse was Katrina than Andrew. Serious question. Anyone know?

Elena - no one pays serious attention to Elvis. In a credibility stand off, you have nothing to worry about, babe. Let’s just see if he can actually say something rather than spew!! I tend to doubt it.

Hope all is well.

OK Cleaning up the Communities..Great thing except my Community has done that for the past 8 years. HOA brings in a dumpster twice a year blah blah blah..Still doesnt provide a solution to “Involving the Latino Community”…and bringing “everyone” together.

I see alllll these ideas by different people, Whats your plan in getting your idea in action?

Ok just read an interesting article,

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/07/AR2008070702845.html?hpid=topnews

Its about an illegal immigrant who was not given his wages for 72 hours. He made 10.00 an hour and was due 720.00…but the employer failed to pay him, so he obtained a lawyer..and sued…and WON…The judge hesitated since obviously Jose ( his name was with held since he is here ILLEGALLY) wasn’t taxed on his earnings.

The story goes on and on…But my point is…This is PART of why Citizens are upset..

His name was with held cause he is ILLEGAL
No tax was issued on his earnings
Illegally here and still protected by local labor laws
Free Counsil since he met his lawyer at Church

Wow all that evasion makes me think of big business and tax laws…..

I get the point, but…..

Just Cause,
I thought part of the anti-illegal argument was that illegals were easy to take advantage of because they would not sue. But, yet, they are entitled to the same employment protection as the general public and they do exercise that right as evident by this article that you cited. Thanks for bringing that to our attention.

But what???

I am simply showing you one of the many scenerios and trying to enlighten on why there is some animosity…but I got the typical “one line zinger” response instead..

Chill. This is America and we have not exactly discouraged playing by the rules. It’s like watching a group of kids get away with something on the playground and thinking “I want to do that, too”.

It does not excuse it and of course there is animosity. It feels funny to say that we reserve that type of evasion for legal residents. But, we should.

not exactly discouraged playing by the rules - make that ‘encouraged’.

…. because there has to be a starting point. Legal resident or working toward it is that. Do we agree, JC?

Well JC, the point was, if We start now and ween America off of Global Capitalism, it would be less appealing to the rest of the world because they would see they could promote simular change in their own countires.

It’s not “Juan’s Unidos Tacos Corp.” that is promoting 3rd world conditions in South/Central America, It’s Nike, Adidas, Craft, Coca-Cola, Gucci, etc.

If you invest in local companies instead of being suckered by the colorful adds of the Giant Globalized Corporations, you will do more to insure a mutual recognition of borders in the future, as opposed to this band-aid ‘Kick em all out and lock the door” plan.

…unless you are prone to believe that Hispanics are genetically prone to be Criminals and thrive only in third world conditions… Is that your belief.

Major corporations believe that all people from South America can be bred to be slaves by promoting third world conditions, while North Americans can be brainwashed to be endless consumers by threatening 3rd World Conditions if they fail to consume.

All of us are being manipulated by a handful of greedy heartless men, we can defeat them by conforming to a global revolution of non-consumption and smart cultivation.

Unless you have no reason to live but to make more money.

“it would be less appealing to the rest of the world…”

I mean it would be less appealing for the rest of the world to come here when they can promote simular change in their own countires and reap simular benifits.

Just Cause, 8. July 2008, 12:57

Get a grip chick! Did you not look at the links put up by Chris? Some of the information on the links were in Spanish. That’s nice and good for you that you have an HOA that you can run to for help. I guess you can’t see past your little HOA community. There are many older established neighborhoods that must work with the county.

rod- Easy on the Novels…Man!

I know where you are coming from, you turn questions into more questions and to answer them:

No.. Not an HSM Member
No.. I dont believe ALL hispanics are criminals
Yes ..I have Minorities in my Family
Yes.. I am making money so I can live
Yes.. I am a legal citizen
Yes..I pay taxes
Yes..In favor of Amnesty ( certain restrictions)
Yes..My opinion is based on Experience
No..I have never met Greg
Yes..I believe due to the influx of illegals, we have serious issues in this County

anything else?

” see alllll these ideas by different people, Whats your plan in getting your idea in action?”

Um….go out a couple of times a week and pick up trash yourself?

Write a flyer in English and Spanish and organize a community clean-up? Get kids involved? Do some of the other things mentioned in these posts? Go to one of the Hispanic/immigrant organizations and request mediation and help arranging these activities?

to :
Jorge Pollo, 8. July 2008, 13:45

OK CLEAN YOUR COMMUNITY..WHOOHOO..Is that your resolution to bringing all sides together??? LMBO….Now thats funny…I dont care if it is written in Spanglish, How does ” Clean up your Community” get the latinos involved??? Yea I have an HOA but did you know these OLD communities can START THEIR OWN HOA???

Taking the “chill” or the “relax” attitude is what got the County into this mess to begin with and if you dont “believe” that….

Mythology- Creating your Own beliefs to disguise the truth…

to kgotthardt, 8. July 2008, 13:57

You missed the fine print.. I said “YOUR” plan of action..Not mine

Yea I have an HOA but did you know these OLD communities can START THEIR OWN HOA???

Not very easily. It would probably take 100% of the homeowners agreeing to form one. A civic association or other less formal group should be doable.

Well there are many I know that actually get out and communicate and are neighborly with their immigrant neighbors. Talking to you neighbors working together, helping each other is good for all.
Of course many now you can start a Civic Association in neighborhoods. Unfortunately, all residents don’t want to participate. I did read the links above, and have read many more.
You haven’t a clue as to what I have or have not done. From the sounds of your posts you just like to read your words or hear your voice.

Sometimes something as simple as a block party in the summer gives neighbors a chance to get to know each other.

Well Jorge guess you got it alllll figuered out..and your right, Havent got a clue as to what you have done and really dont care.. Gald that you know “many other” communities that are leading the way, helping others etc etc..Guess if thats the case, then whats your point here???

Remember..Actions speak louder than words.

Censored,
That’s right and the county can assist with that. They also will help orgainize Community Yard Sales too.
100% participation.. I hope that’s based on occupied houses. A quarter of my block is still empty.
C

You say you don’t care what I’ve done or not done. Yet, you say actions speak louder than words. Right, you are I’ve been busy for years working for good for all citizens.
What’s my point here.. That is of no concern to you.
Go bok at your HOA!! Your comments are not working for good like the thread mentioned.

I go out with my kids and pick up trash at various places, if you must know. I say “hi” to my neighbors and let all the kids play together if they wish. If there’s a problem, I talk to my neighbors. I also do what I can within our church that reaches out to immigrants. I write letters and talk at Citizen’s Time if I can.

Is that what you are looking for, Just?

I’m also advocating for a Citizen Advisory Board to help direct neighborhood and community complaints…..NOT to write immigration policy but to help keep the peace, get residents to the right departments, field complaints, etc. The people on these boards must be customer service oriented, logical, kind, patient, and unconnected with any political party. And I would add, NO HSM MEMBERS OR ASSOCIATES.

Jorge Pollo- Your right…Your wisdom is so much more inspiring..Thank you for the enlightenment…

Kgotthardt- …..Nope…Thought the thread was all about bringing all sides together, hashing out ideas that also involved the latino Community…

Everyone here is all about “picking up trash” hmmmmmm are you guys associating Illegals to trash?? Makes one wonder….hmmmmmm

Chris, I think because an HOA has legal ramifications and homeowners bought their houses when those legally restrictive covenants weren’t in place it would take all of them agreeing to the change to make it happen. I might be wrong but that’s how it was explained to me. Civic associations aren’t that restrictive…you can join or not depending on if you wish. Supervisor Jenkins’ staff told me that some civic associations had been formed in older parts of Dale City.

BTW, I heard through the grapevine that “the sign” has seen some changes.

Yes, the Civic Association has nothing to with restrictions. It’s about coming together as community for many things. It keeps the neighborhoods looking good and getting people together to share ideas for improvement.

I was over ther Sunday, and it looked the same. I did notice a new flag flying on the top. I wil have to check it out. I’m going over to the City a little later. Thanks.

Here is a thought and its genuine so please dont pounce on me..But if HSM is really scaring off the day laborers then…Why dont some of you go and offer jobs to do around the communities..Like power washing houses, doing some light landscapping ( mowing, weed eating) take up a community collection and then offer the collection to a couple day laborers for their services.. In turn, you can s how HSM that YOU are not afraid and the day laborer is happy to be getting some income for his/her family and while these services are being done, Offer then lemonaid or some bottled water and strike up some sort of conversation…..

just a thought…

Believe it or not, I would contribute $25.00 towards this….I’m willing to take that leap, I just can’t be the leader….

Well good for you. And maybe you’ll get raped or killed the way some do who patronize day laborers. And probably your dying thought would be “Damn, I’ll bet Greg L. will have a field day with this …”

Seriously, it’s not safe hiring day laborers and taking them to your house.

Rick
You are right. No one’s doing “jack” at my home if they are not properly licesned, issured and bonded. Only a fool would take that liability on.

Just Cause, you’re nothing but a troll. Forget you and your boredom or whatever it is that drives you to waste people’s time.

@ Just Cause 8. July 2008 15:03

We do that in Herndon all the time…Many private home owners pick up Day Laborers at the unofficial site to do lawn work for themselves or the elderly.

As long as tax dollars aren’t involved, not many people care.

Chris, they called Jesus a fool as well as those who followed him, but He hung out with the poor reguardless.

We know the risk, we don’t fear.

rod,
You are so right. Some just don’t seem to see the big picute. What a shame. There so much beyond our own front door.
signed,
fearless

WOW talking out both sides of your mouth, Why not hire a day laborer? You are all talking compassion and getting to know one another and bringing communities together..blah blah..Just an idea and of course shot down.

Rick- Guess you are right

Chris- Hmmm rod2155 does it all the time, Whats the difference in Herndon and PWC?

Kgottard- If you dont like what I say, FART AND SKIP OVER IT..people like YOU are part of the problem, you have alll these suggestions and ideas but when its time to put your money where your mouth is…YOU FART and roll over……

Chris, 8. July 2008, 15:30
rod,
You are so right. Some just don’t seem to see the big picute. What a shame. There so much beyond our own front door.
signed,
fearless

______

Did you just not post that you would NEVER hire someone ( day Laborer) unles they are bonded and insured etc etc ??

KG, definitely a troll. Some loud pottymouth here but apparently fell to pieces when someone wizzed on her tire and laughed at her (or is that him). Uh huh…

JC,
I left a sarcasm alert!
I would NOT hire a day laborer or any fool that came knocking on my door wanting to do work. I have plenty of legal friends with ligit businesses. You can hire them if you want to.

Ignore those pesky trolls!!

CHALLENGE:

Why dont you KG and your gottar-bot censored, and all the other broads, troll ON over to Irongate and clean sweep that community and then hit Georgetown south..Make sure you wear your smiles and give your best “Hi how are you’s” and then report back how you were welcomed with open arms and how “nice” the community people were..

Put your Money where your Mouth is ladies…………

Chris- EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!! ..Becareful the troll police might “get you”…

Ignore kg, she is quick to label anyone she disagrees with as a troll, a Greg supporter, an HSM member, or other even more hateful things.

The City is planning its 2nd Annual Neighborhood Conference now. It’s going to take place on Nov 15 from 8:30am to 3pm at the Carteret Mortgage Boys and Girls Club in Manassas (behind Jennie Dean Elementary School). Call Kisha Wilson-Sogunro, the City’s Neighborhood Services Coordinator to volunteer — adults and youth needed! 703-257-8240

There are still two more groups of “Week of Hope” volunteers coming to the City of Manassas. Anyone is welcome to work along side them, or if you know of someone in the City who needs their help, call Kisha.

Join in planning the Study Circles (see beginning of this thread).

Go to the film series Unity in the Community is putting together (see KG’s post).

Thanks for focusing on action and solutions.

I think that there are a lot of bi-lingual people who post here (unfortunately I’m not one of them) has anyone tried to create and/or volunteer to teach English classes? I think that the main problem with getting a community together is that some people can’t even talk with their neighbor. If they could communicate then maybe some ice-breaking could start.

Wow, you have been a busy group today!

While I see some good ideas on this thread, Elena, I take issue with the way you introduced this thread:

we will not fix the immigration reform debate from a local standpoint
Yes, we can, and we will. Turning a blind eye to the breaking of existing laws is not a “solution.”

Part of the solution must involve the Latino community
Just the Latino community? Aren’t you drawing some serious generalizations here, generalizations that have gotten many people attacked on this blog for racism? What about the sizable West African immigrant population in Woodbridge? Are we leaving them in the dust? Or are you suggesting that Latinos need more hand-holding than other immigrants?

Day laborer sites and a more dignified location for people to look for work
I am all for helping LEGAL Americans find work. Many church groups and other private organizations are already doing that. It has seemed to me that you favor maintaining a way for illegal immigrants to get work, to continue to avoid paying income taxes, and enable their exploitation by businesses profiting by the cheap labor and depriving legal citizens of the right to blue-collar jobs that pay a living wage. Last I checked, it is still illegal to hire an illegal immigrant, and I won’t agree with any community “solution” that involves enabling that practice.

Community “healing”
The idea that this area has suffered a decline in reputation, that it is somehow more “hateful” and that Hispanic women and children are living in fear is an outright lie. I see Hispanic children riding their bicycles around police cruisers, women with them strolling with babies. They are everywhere living their lives like everyone else. The folks setting off illegal fireworks in the largely Hispanic neighborhood in PWC I was visiting this weekend were certainly not living in fear while they were defying the law. Mr. Fernandez and his crew didn’t look too stressed out while they partied in front of their big “FU” to the community. The day laborers who continue to gather are not living in fear. It is complete nonsense that is nothing more than an effort to make the race card a stronger hand.

Many of you suggest that it is simply a matter of loving thy neighbor. Unfortunately, some of you are wielding a rather self-righteous weapon here. Anyone who has shown even the slightest bit of dissent in this thread is painted with a broad, unholy brush, and that is unfair. Those who invoke Jesus to try to shut down a debate might be in need of a little soul-searching themselves. One cannot assume that those of us who take issue with some of the above are not already helping the community in many ways.

I hardly think, as some have suggested, that disagreement with the prevailing opinins here equals “anger-management issues.” Many of us are unwilling to simply abandon the effort to control illegal immigration and its effects in favor of “solutions” that simply provide a welcome mat and further incentive to lawbreaking.

Hi Emma, I had many of the same issues you pointed out but I was too tired to get into it. The one that most stood out was “we will not fix the immigration reform debate from a local standpoint”, a lot issues are first fixed at the local “grassroots” level.

However, when it comes to getting a community to come together it can only happen if neighbors can communicate with one another. I’m not saying everyone HAS to learn English, I’m just saying it would make it easier if we could speak the same language. If someone doesn’t want to learn English I could care less, but I may not get the opportunity to ever get to know them and they won’t get to know me.

jUST CAUSE,

Funny how one person reads an article and gets one idea out of it and another reads an article and gets an entirely different main idea …from the same article.

I read the same article and walked away outraged that someone would fleece anyone who had worked all day for ten bucks an hour. I also believe the anonymity was provided by the Post, not the courts. Furthermore, we don’t know that the man who was fleeced didn’t pay taxes using his ITIN. Check out the link.
http://www.irs.gov/individuals/article/0,,id=96287,00.html#what

I am curious why this article makes you so furious. It made me feel sorry for someone who was so desperate that they lived in another country to support their family and that some scumbag would take advantage of the situation by cheating them.

It isnt too sharp to take anyone into your home that you don’t know if you don’t go through an established business, Rick. I don’t think being ‘illegal’ demonizes a person.

Moon-howler, I agree with your view on the article, it sucks that the guy got cheated out of his pay which I’m sure he worked hard for. However, at the same time I was thinking to myself… if this guy (the illegal laborer) won his case then wouldn’t that open up the possibility for charges on the guy that hired illegal labor?

So who elected you elena as defender of legal hispanic immigrants? I wonder, do they really want you to stand up for them? I would like to hear some legals ones say so, the ones I talk to say you are a blowhard looking for a cause and just wish you would shut up and go back to your environmental activism. Dont you have a bunch of kids? Shouldnt you be taking care of them instead of trying to help out the poor illegals? I’m fairly sure the legal ones dont need nor want your help.

MH, I got the same impression as you did. Yesterday’s WaPo had an article about how colleges are seeing an upswing in the number of students signing up for immigration law classes. There should be more attorneys to help with these cases in the future. (It sounded as if the judge in that one case needed an education in immigration law.)

Yap. Yap. Yap. Elvis, cite your sources.

KG spewed:
“We need to de-vest in these giant corporate chain franchises and focus on small local business.

Right on!”

Yet ANOTHER example of her waffling. Just yesterday she bragged about how she loves to shop at Wal-Mart because it’s cheap. So, uh, which one is it? Do you shop at mo and pop places or the big box stores? Which side are you on today, KG?

JC is right - all of your examples of “solutions” are picking up trash. Of course, if you live in Sheffield Manor, it’s pretty easy to communicate with your neighbors. Take up JC’s challenge and spend your Saturday (with your children!) at Irongate and clean up their neighborhood. Or better yet - go to the 7-11 and hire some day laborers to help you clean up.

You wish, and I guess you’re solutionless except to ditto JC.

Okay, how about these? Rather than just picking up trash, why don’t you volunteer in the community at schools and hospitals to act as a translator or advocate? OR create an organization in which immigrants who need help filling out paperwork/getting community resources/finding work get the help they need and the information that they need? There was just an article in the Examiner that up to 30% of students eligible for free/reduced lunch don’t get it because their parents don’t know that they can apply for it.

Is that better? I do many of these things where I work, because I work in the school system. I advocate for the parents who have limited English proficiency and make sure that a translator is available for them. I have volunteered to teach adult ESL, as has my mother. You think that because people are against illegal immigrant we are against ALL immigrants. You are wrong.

Just Cause:

The story goes on and on…But my point is…This is PART of why Citizens are upset..

His name was with held cause he is ILLEGAL
No tax was issued on his earnings
Illegally here and still protected by local labor laws

Don’t you know that income tax is unconstitutional and the IRS/Federal Reserve is an illegal entity? Wake up. Instead of arguing to enslave immigrants…don’t you think you should be fighting to liberate yourself and your children from the illegal garnering of your wages that is income tax?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173&q=freedom+to+fascism&ei=lf9zSObZCYS4rgKWl5GtCw&hl=en

Good for you, You wish, you’re making a positive contribution to your community regardless of your view on immigration. The reason trash is brought up is because some neighborhood residents are concerned about it and the mess in their community. My neighborhood has some messy houses - always has - and we do a community clean-up once a year and at other times we, as individuals, pick up the litter or report the worst of the houses.

I don’t pick up day laborers at 7-11. I use licensed and insured contractors…both for my sake and the workers’ sakes. And I get the proper permits. But, if that’s how some guy can pick up some money, I’m not going to prevent him from trying.

People on this blog work in different ways within their community and try to put their skills to the most or best use. Some of us who have spent time typing on our keyboards sending our messages to the WaPo, the MJM, other blogs, the BOCS, etc. feel that we’ve made a difference in county policy in that way. Others may teach classes that examine the issues of immigration. Others may be policemen/women who try to humanely deal with immigrants/the immigration issue on a daily basis. Others are involved in the thick of it at a personal level with their families.

It’s not as simplistic as telling someone to go pick up trash in Irongate or Georgetown South.

Something that I’d venture to say that most posters here do is greet immigrants with the same smile with which we’d greet our neighbors and not with the scowl of the Red Circle. Immigrants are here. For the most part, they are not “going back”. You can either make friends of your fellow county/city residents or you can make them your enemies. You decide what’s best in the long run.

You Wish, you can like Wal-Mart and support small businesses. It’s not an either/or. That’s the kind of thinking that gets us into problems in the first place. Think “and” rather than “either/or.”

I’d be happy to join anyone in a picking up trash event at Irongate or anywhere else. My daughters and I just did some at Stonewall Park near Point of Woods. Trash is everywhere. Just look around and start picking it up.

Anyone hear a whiny sound in the background besides me??? Oh, that is Elvis. Okay, let’s continue..

Dont you have a bunch of kids? Shouldnt you be taking care of them instead of trying to help out the poor illegals?

Whoa, elvis, them’s fighten’ words among some of us working moms. I’ve got four amazing kids, a full-time job I love, and volunteer work. I don’t tend to hang around long with people who say stuff like that.

But elvis does have a point there, once you get past all that. Where are all of the Hispanic voices? Are they really that weak and helpless? I’m not buying it. It seems more the norm that they are living their lives like everyone else, as I said, while some are openly defying zoning, employment, driving and other laws. When we hear about how fearful, oppressed or angry they are, it seems purely anecdotal.

For positive community solutions, PWC needs to deal with its “national automobile slums.”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1ZeXnmDZMQ&feature=related

“The idea that this area has suffered a decline in reputation, that it is somehow more “hateful” and that Hispanic women and children are living in fear is an outright lie. I see Hispanic children riding their bicycles around police cruisers, women with them strolling with babies. They are everywhere living their lives like everyone else. The folks setting off illegal fireworks in the largely Hispanic neighborhood in PWC I was visiting this weekend were certainly not living in fear while they were defying the law. Mr. Fernandez and his crew didn’t look too stressed out while they partied in front of their big “FU” to the community. The day laborers who continue to gather are not living in fear. It is complete nonsense that is nothing more than an effort to make the race card a stronger hand.”

That’s exactly right, and I’ll go further. I saw a lot of happiness among legal Hispanics when the Rule of Law resolution went down and their illegal neighnbors started moving away. Smiles everywhere.

And Jedi, I said day laborers aren’t safe, I didn’t say illegals. YOU projected that, not me.

It’s not actually anecdotal at all. The illegal immigration issue has mobilized Hispanics in this country like no other. There has been a wave of citizenship applications, a wave of new voters in states across the country. This is among legal residents. If you haven’t heard about this, I can certainly dig up the surveys/news reports.

This is because many people are citizens or in legal status have friends and relatives who are not, and all because people are angered about the potential for harassment and discrimination based on prejudice.

The Hispanic community isn’t monolithic. I am sure there are people who support all the legislation against illegal immigration on every level of government. But to pretend that is the majority voice across the country is to be wearing blinders. The candidates know that.

I, too, have met a number of legal immigrants who are angered when people jump the line–people who have had relatives waiting for YEARS to come from African countries, Europe, you name it. Legal immigrant and American-born Latinos I work with are largely OPPOSED to a blanket amnesty, and they have expressed disgust when they see Mexican and Salvadorean flags gracing homes and cars and being held by illegal-immigrant demonstrators demanding their “rights”.

Leila, maybe they just want to be citizens, plain and simple, because they want our way of life, not because they are “angered.” That is nothing but conjecture on your part.

Emma, Scholars and think tanks have studied the phenomenon both in terms of new citizenship application and, as important, increases in voting and voting patterns. Do you really think nobody has done polls on this issue among Hispanics, both citizens (and therefore potential voters) and legal residents? This is the farthest thing from conjecture. I can find the data if you want it. If you will promise to read it. Here’s an easy source. Google Pew Hispanic Research Center. Go to the site and click on Politics. Then click on the Dec 2007 report entitled

2007 National Survey of Latinos: As Illegal Immigration Issue Heats Up, Hispanics Feel a Chill

That is one individual data set. There are plenty. I am happy to direct you to sources across the political spectrum that will back up what I said with survey and other data.

PS to Emma. You might also want to check out what the advisors on Hispanic affairs for McCain and Obama talk about on shows like the New Hour tonight. And when I said “across the political spectrum,” I should have also mentioned the academic spectrum too. This is extremely well studied and not just in terms of recent events. See the research on Prop 187 in California for example.

correction News Hour (PBS)

Pew Hispanic Research Center? Now there’s an unbiased source I can sink my teeth into, Leila. Next you’ll be directing me to the SPLC website. Never mind what REAL people–neighbors, friends and coworkers–are experiencing. Let’s look at some cooked numbers from biased sources.

Of course illegal Hispanics feel more “vulnerable,” as the report states. They are breaking the law! “They are about twice as likely as Hispanic citizens to worry about deportation.” Well, duh, that’s enlightening. Why would a LEGAL Hispanic worry about deportation?

I think you might want to look a little more closely at your sources before you use them to make your point. If you read carefully, you would have seen this:

“Despite their concerns about the impact of the immigration debate, Hispanics are generally content with their own lives and upbeat about the long-term prospects for Latino children. Nearly eight-in-ten respondents, for example, say they are very (45%) or somewhat (33%) confident that Hispanic children growing up now will have better jobs and more money than they have.”

Hardly sounds like fear and oppression to me.

The survey was conducted by phone to 2,003 Hispanc adults, with no indication of how they knew whether any of them–or how many of them–were illegal.

You didn’t think I would read it, did you?

This is the first time I have been buried with over 100 comments before I even clicked on a thread! Congrats again on your success everyone. This blog has really been a community effort. If the same leadership and the same community spirit can be transferred from the virtual to the actual world, we can meet the challenges we face as we come a more diverse community without the politicization of hate-mongering and scapegoating.

I have been on the fence about government sponsored day laborer sites, but the idea of having churches sponsor the sites is outstanding. If ever there was a time when we needed the strength and wisdom of our religous community, this is the time. Rob2155 thanks so much for sharing your experiences from Herndon! We will all be so much better off if neighboring communities can learn from one another. In the modern era, they don’t even have to be neighbors! I am not an expert on this issue, but from reading this thread I would like to throw my support to the solution-oriented minds like Rob2155, Chris and KGotthardt.

I’m glad to see that, for the most part, the Hate Bunnies have not contributed their usual droppings to this thread. It’s helpful to hear the thoughts of those who resist solutions such as Rick Bentley Who Has Not Thought Things Through and Just Cause, and analyze what they offer instead (more reasons to be angry).

We need to take such people into account as we move forward as a county and as a country. Although their numbers are dwindling and their talking points are swiftly being disproved and dismissed (especially on this blog but also in mainstream public opinion), we should not cause them to feel ignored or disenfranchised. If we make this mistake, the Order of the Red Circle will have some new recruits … and the percentage of people willing to devote their energies to discord, disunity, and hateful rhetoric will go back to 2007 levels.

Quick Note: Spent time in West Virginia over the Fourth of July holiday weekend, and they think Prince William County is backwards. So, you know it’s bad.

That’s hilarious. Emma thinks the PEW Hispanic Research Center is not to be believed because it has the word “Hispanic” in it! LOL!

The term “Mexican food” has the word “Mexican” in it, Emma, does that mean you won’t eat a taco?

You are very amusing Emma. First you damn the source, the Pew Center, then you use its data to support your argument. Can you spell disingenuous?

However you ignore everything but that graph. I am very glad you read it. Then you must have read all the other statistics in the study such as:

“Just over half of all Hispanic adults in the U.S. worry that they, a family member or a close friend could be deported, a new nationwide survey of Latinos by the Pew Hispanic Center has found. Nearly two-thirds say the failure of Congress to enact an immigration reform bill has made life more difficult for all Latinos.”

There was also information about the differing attitudes of those who were citizens and those who were not.

There are also several other reports on the same site specifically about voting behavior, which means citizens.
FAIR uses data from Pew, as do others. However if for some reason you think they are wholly biased, I am happy to provide other sources for you, including other think tanks, polls, academics, and news articles. The point is that it wasn’t “conjecture” as you claimed. You just now choose not to accept it.

Also, what makes you think I or others here don’t have friends or family members of Hispanic origin who are citizens and who discuss their concerns about issues? Or are only the ones you talk to right?

I noticed another funny from Emma. Her latest contribution to the ever-stagnant list of Official Reasons To Be Angry is (drum roll please) … flags that are not our American flag. Thanks Emma, we hadn’t heard that one….

You know, I ate lunch at an Italian restaurant today and they had the NERVE to display an Italian flag in broad daylight outside the restaurant on a permanent flag pole! I guess the progenitors of the Hate Bunnies were right tha Italian immigrants (W.O.P.’s) would never assimilate and could never be good Americans. There are dozens of ways to advertise Italian food without insulting America. We should resurrect the Hate Bunnies from the 19th century ASAP. … Right Emma?

WHWN, what you said is completely asinine. I said no such thing. Stop lying.

Bring it On, exactly why is West Virginia “backwards”? I’d love to hear your stereotypes.

Another gem from WHWN. You’re not really reading, are you?

Leila, my point was that you are picking out what you want to hear and leaving the rest, and to show you that I could do the same if I chose. It’s a question of credibility.

And where did I say no one else here has Hispanic friends or family that they talk to? Are you simply speed-reading and guessing, or are you just choosing to put words in my mouth?

Spoken like a true revisionist Emma. You said my claim was pure conjecture, which means I had no evidence for what I claimed. You appear to have forgotten you said that. It is seriously amusing that you speak of credibility.

I didn’t pick and choose anything. I mentioned an entire report, and I mentioned in the context of a site with lots of other reports that anyone going there would immediately see. The graph you chose didn’t contradict anything I have said anywhere. I didn’t use the terms “fear and oppression.” You did. I said the immigration issue has become a major catalyst for political mobilization for Hispanics in the United States.

The reason both parties are intent on wooing the Hispanic vote is because it is mobilized like never before and this issue is key in key states.

I will say this though. Since both candidates have opposed mass deportation or other draconian measures. And since both are for a path to legalization, the issue has gone down quite a bit in importance for Hispanic voters since the early primary season.

But since McCain has already done a bit of a flip flop to appease the famous base, things may change yet again. I’m waiting for the debates.

Leila, you are the one who is selectively reading and talking in circles, and YOU seem to have forgotten my initial point. Elvis was wondering why Elena felt the need to defend the Hispanic community. I also observed that Hispanics living in this community don’t seem to be cowering in fear, but going about their business. You did not initially cite your “studies” when you made your 21:12 comment, and that is why I said that it was “conjecture” on your part.

Perhaps Hispanics are mobilizing, but it does not appear to be out of fear and persecution, and the studies you cite have mixed results and the samples are fairly small You can pull out anything you want from your studies to fulfill your need to be right, however. I would never deny you the right to do so. I am much more interested in the experiences of real people in the community I live in.

Bring it On, 8. July 2008, 21:47
Quick Note: Spent time in West Virginia over the Fourth of July holiday weekend, and they think Prince William County is backwards. So, you know it’s bad.

Still haven’t answered my question, BIO. What exactly did you mean by that?

I’m afraid you have not provided any evidence whatsoever to doubt the Pew or any other study, nor have you explained why their polling techniques are inaccurate or differ from the polling techniques of any other researchers. But that’s fine. No problem. It is good you are interested in the experiences of real people in your community because based on reading this blog, bvbl, other blogs, and the English- and Spanish-language news media, there are many in your community who object strongly to the policies of your BOCS.

Frankly, I didn’t feel any need to cite studies in my first statement because what I was saying was so patently obvious. I didn’t realize it would come as shock to you that a majority of Hispanic citizens and legal resident aliens would be opposed to your views on illegal immgration.

But back to solutions.

The question was asked, where are all the hispanic voices? I heard them loud and clear October 16. 12-13 hours worth of their voices. I am sure they feel their voices fell on deaf ears.

Mr. Fernandez of ‘The Sign’ fame is speaking out loud and clear. I think many people are at least hearing him. They were sure sending up smoke signals today over there at 9500 Liberty. I am not sure what it was all about but something was cooking and I don’t mean on the many bbq grills I saw smoking.

Oh, their voices are out there.

Leila:

I said the immigration issue has become a major catalyst for political mobilization for Hispanics in the United States.
The reason both parties are intent on wooing the Hispanic vote is because it is mobilized like never before and this issue is key in key states.

Emma, this is absolutely true. It is no longer a discussion about immigration policy (not like the Republican party ever intended to have a discussion). The debate has been deliberately transformed by the Republican Party into a forum where bigotry can be openly expressed and encouraged under the transparent excuse of ‘enforcing the law’. I have been physically assaulted and threatened with physical assault multiple times over the past few years simply for being Latino and speaking Spanish. That’s not even counting the glaring bigotry inherent in telling people they have to speak English, the endless harping on crimes that some immigrants commit as if all are criminals, passing resolutions to expel a whole group of people that violate the concept of innocent until proven guilty, etc., etc.

This is a knock-down, drag-out, bar-fight now.

Elvis,

Taking another cheap shot at Elena I see. Hmmm…must be that crush. Elena was ‘put in touch with Corey Stewart’ because of her environmental activism? If memory serves me right, she held a fund raiser for him at her home. It seems to me that he should be indebted to her. I feel certain the same courtesy would NOT be extend to him today.

It’s time to give it a rest and stop singling out individuals here to pick at. People’s children are clearly off limits. Argue the issues and leave the personal claptrap out of it.

Wow, my name wasn’t on the list! Hey, I must not be so offensive after all. So this must be keeping Elena up at night, or at least 4AM. After reading the listed posts I get the feeling of utter frustration from those posting. It may not be sugar coated or PC, but then again the words were chosen in anger. I’ve expressed outrage at times, but I guess I chose my words more wisely.

I still want to know how a family of six with one wage earner working a low paying job can live in the same type home that it took me years to be able to afford as a professional, and they are still able to afford a new SUV? I’m sorry, but something doesn’t financially add up! So don’t tell me I’m not footing the bill for their life style. Maybe that’s why my daughter had to pay through the teeth to have her baby at Fairfax. Nothing in life is free…….at least for legal citizens!

SA, You are on the B list. She will get to you tomorrow.

Most people speak in anger occassionjally. However, I think what Elena has captured shows a pattern and is indicative of something deeply engrained in the soul of Prince William County more than just being an periodic outburst or two. She is giving us a look into a dark place; a dark place where the people who go there feel that they can say or do just about anything and it is accepted as the norm by their peers.

She has addressed these issues before the BOCS before……if you need a reminder.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=SuEGM_erDno

MH,

How do you explain low wage people being able to move into upper class neighborhoods? It’s never happened in general, and yet suddenly these illegals have found a way. Can’t be legal or unsubsidized or something. There is no way a guy making laborer’s wages with a wife (assuming here) and four kids could afford a $400K house. I had to go through reams of paperwork for a VA loan on my present home, and I was already a home owner for years. How can someone who walks across the border, is uneducated, doesn’t speak English, and doesn’t have a steady job accomplish this? All I can say is that my economics course in college must have been lacking!

Elena,

I could care less if they are Legal or Illegal! Just tell me how they financially afford it, and stop dodging the question. That’s just it, I bring up a financial subject and you want to go back to business as usual.

SA,

I don’t have an answer for you. In my neighborhood, all sorts of people have ended up with homes who appear to be ‘out of step with the neighborhood,’ if you know what I mean. I would like to be a fly on the wall and peek into their financial records to see how they are doing it.

I think credit was very loose for several years, right before the fall. Unscrupulous realtors and mortgage lenders put people in houses they could not afford and taught people how to pull in others to help pay for homes. As for cars, think leasing. You can get a lot more bang for your buck if you lease.

Those same folks who appeared to be out of step also represent some of the housing foreclosures. Perhaps I am now not so envious of their apparent free ride.

There’s an old blues song, “Summertime,” from Porgy and Bess. Perhaps you know it best sung by Janis Joplin, who took the Gershwin song and brought it into the pop charts field:

Summer time, and the living is easy, fish are jumping, and the cotton is high….your daddy’s rich, and your momma’s good looking…..so hush little baby, don’t you cry….

I think” summertime “is over for a lot of people. Jobs have dried up, industry is drying up, credit is drying up, mortgages are drying up, real estate is drying up,

From BVBL today:

(Picture of a contractor driving by 7-11):

This friendly guy, who drives a Ford F-550 with Virginia commercial tags TX 667, may have to look elsewhere for day laborers to hire for his commercial business from now on. The 7-Eleven on Coverstone Drive was the site of some actual enforcement of the law by Prince William County Police today, and for the first time in years was cleared of illegal alien day laborers. Efforts of the Crime Prevention Team of Help Save Manassas have started to make a difference in Prince William County, and between public efforts to discourage the unlawful employment of illegal aliens and quieter reaching out to business and property owners who are happy to have someone come to help them.

It will certainly take additional work to rescue these businesses and shut down day labor sites in the county, but for the first time, progress is being made. Hopefully some of the folks like Mr. Happy Pizza-Eating No-Hands Driver above will also get a lesson from the Virginia Department of Taxation about the potential consequences of flouting the law as well.

Oberserver,

So what. Just another person with their privacy invaded. Maybe someone will tell the driver of the white truck where he is posted and he can pay the person who took the picture a visit.

SA,
Nice try, no banana. You most certainly did pose your financial question in terms of illegal immigrants.

Statements like

and yet suddenly these illegals have found a way and How can someone who walks across the border, is uneducated, doesn’t speak English, and doesn’t have a steady job accomplish this?

definitely make your protests of righteous indignation “I could care less if they are Legal or Illegal! Just tell me how they financially afford it, and stop dodging the question. That’s just it, I bring up a financial subject and you want to go back to business as usual…” disingenuous and an outright falsehood. If you want to appear all innocent, at least don’t leave evidence at the scene of the crime.

MH and Observer,
Did you notice the comments are closed on that thread? They are also closed on the newest thread too. Why open a thread and close the comments right out the gate?

Moon-howler if you want to go to physical violence, maybe some American citizens who don’t like what is happening can go visit the Coverstone 7-11 with some baseball bats and clean house …

So Bring It On’s swipe at West Virginia goes unchallenged for its outright bigotry. I take issue with the way the “problems” are presented in the quest for “solutions,” and I get ridiculed by WHWN and Leila, among others. Is that how many of you hope to find common ground and work toward “solutions”? How is that working for you? Have fun at my expense, and good luck. I’m joining Leaving Point of Woods and saying bye-bye.

You could have a lot more to decry than Greg L. taking a picture oif a tax evader to worry about, if you want to start getting physical.

MH-

Can you not answer the question? You pick and tear a persons post apart to avoid answering legit questions that are asked. It amazes me that people come on here to view their opinions and ask questions and in turn, you and Censored constantly tear a person down ( a defense mechanism?). I put a challenge out yesterday and of course, it was picked apart ( I was called a troll..Pest etc etc) but in the end, the challenge had no takers….

SA, they may have had some cash to put down on a house or they may have done what people all over the county of all races and ethnicities did…used a subprime loan. Why do you think so many $700,000 houses languish on the market right now. I’d bet that it’s because the homeowners could no longer afford them as the interest rates escalated.

Rick,

What are you talking about? I have never advocated violence on this blog. Please explain yourself.

Sorry to hear that you are leaving Emma, I think you speak eloquently and Im sure alot of others think you do as well.. This Blog had no intent of ever wanting to debate.
They are discriminating against anyone of opposition ( becoming what they are suppose to despise) I also see where congratulations are being offered for the “most posts” when in reality its the same 7 people talking back and fourth, back and fourth, back and fourth…..rest assured reality has escaped most of the people on this blog..but then again as I have said in the past: actions speak louder than words and all I see are in fact……………..words

Just Cause,

What are you whining about this morning? All questions I found legitmate were answered. Did you not see my rather lengthy post? Nooooo you picked out what you wanted to see, which was a rebuttal. It amazes ME how absolutely ridiculous you are. You come here for a fight. Go fight on bvbl. You have no questions. You just lob grenades.

Emma, stay in touch. It has been a somewhat rocky road but I feel we have found some common ground. Mrs. Cheney has an excellent blog with lots of intellectual content and some serious rules. Maybe I will see you over there.

“they may have done what people all over the county of all races and ethnicities did” - BUT, around here, illegals did it much more, and the results were disasterous.

Emma, I enjoyed your posts, I hope you don’t get chased away.

Rick, I hope you’re not stooping to the usual threat of violence some of the anti-immigration crowd in the WaPo response section advocate. Here’s an example from a Post article on the increase in students studying immigration law:

Remember, our government just re-affirmed our right to own guns… To protect against a tyrannical government… They are getting Verrrrrrrry close, and to allow something that is so far from Citizens wishes will almost ensure a violent overthrow of our government.

Don’t think it will happen? Keep pushing us… I’m ready to go already and am waiting on a rally cry….

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/06/AR2008070602154_Comments.html#

The FBI should be interested in looking into some of this stuff.

To refine my point about potential use of baseball bats, Elana I think the Rule of Law Resolution WAS a relatively positive community solution. Doubtless tyhe majority of voters agree.

As to the opinion of elitists in other counties who have always looked down on us (”Welcome to Manasshole” the Washington City Paper once proclaimed) well give it a little time and see if this thing doesn’t play out similarly in other counties.

Sorry I meant Elena.

Did anyone notice over on bvbl under the WMAL entry?
The opening sentence reads.”On my way to work this morning, I was listening to WMAL as usual.”

I noticed that the comments were cut off on all the new threads. I think someone else mentioned that on here earlier this morning though. Why open up a new thread and close the comments.

Moon-howler, 9. July 2008, 8:13
Just Cause,

Q. What are you whining about this morning?

A: That you have succeeded in “chasing” away more individuals with your antics and belittling

Q: All questions I found legitmate were answered. Did you not see my rather lengthy post?
A: Same bantering..Different day..I get tired of reading YOUR posts…

Q: Nooooo you picked out what you wanted to see, which was a rebuttal. It amazes ME how absolutely ridiculous you are. You come here for a fight. Go fight on bvbl.

A: When you point a finger at someone, remember there are 3 more pointing BACK at you…in other words..Hi Pot..Meet kettle.

Q: You have no questions. You just lob grenades.

A: No you “hate” debate, When someone asks a question or discuss’s an experience or simply disagrees with you, you in turn insult them, belittle them and call them names.

maybe you need to practice what you preach…

Again from BVBL:

Good N. Plenty said on 8 Jul 2008 at 8:39 pm:
An interesting thing happened today at the day labor site at Coverstone 7-11.
After a civic organization did a bit of observing Saturday, and no doubt made a few more phone calls to have officials take a closer look at what was going on here, good news!!………..the typically 100 men who hang out for hours here were scattered today as there is a new surveillance on the scene. The property owner hired a security guard who has taken his job seriously and getting some police support on that site. Most of the men scattered to unknown areas, some shifted to the corner of Coverstone Apartments

The day laborers have been scaring away business from the 7-11, the owner didn’t want them there … so they started hanging out on the adjacent vacant lot.

Sounds like they’re not wanted there either!

Maybe they’ll get the message that illegal is illegal and we can then move together towards a humane comprehensive solution. Or maybe they should just go camp out at fernandez’ sign and get picked up there. Actually there would be a logic to that. Then the people who pick them up could look up at the sign and be confronted with their own anti-Americanism.

An Observer- I think a 100 men is a high estimate. The funny thing is the daylaborers had dwindled in numbers earlier this year. Now, they daylaborers are a growing again in numbers at the Coverstone 7-11. If so many have fled the area, why are more daylaborers hanging out than ever? I guess some like in BOTH ways.

Rick,
They are scattered now near Coverstone Apts. This is the same tactic used a couple of months ago at the 7-11 accross from Marumsco Plaza on Rt. 1. However, I was getting some cheap gas, as if there is such a thing at Race Trac around 7:30am today. I saw 15 men on the 7-11 property seeking shelter from the rain at the store front. The 7-11 sure didn’t seem to mind having them there this morning. I thought 7-11 wanted them gone. That’s simply not what I saw this morning.

Speaking of the sign. You can most literaly camp out at 9500 Liberty. Last night in the early evening there were about 5 tents set up and dinner was being grilled.

SA,
This is what I was talking about yesterday. People believing what the system tells them. I don’t know about your background but you cannot say that $400,000 houses in this area belong to upper class neighborhood. I am not saying it is a slum but in most suburbs that would be the cost of a condo.
We have been telling lies to working-class people and now with the state of the economy we blame the “other” group ( immigrants) for our problems. They are not destroying our way of life. We were deceived and we didn’t get ready to compete in a a new global economy.

So did Greg get hired by 7-11 to be it’s official Security Guard?

Two interesting articles in today’s WaPo. FYI.

- “Latin Lovers” by Dana Milbank on A3. A report on Obama and McCain at a
League of Latin American Citizens meeting this week. “Como le dice ‘pander’
en Espanol?”

- Op/Ed page piece “The Candor Gap” by Robert Samuelson. “We could refashion
immigration policy to favor skilled immigrants, because they contribute more to
the economy and assimilate faster.” He notes that “low-skilled” Hispanics
don’t assimilate rapidly and lag behind other immigrant groups.

From BVBL today:

(Picture of a contractor driving by 7-11):

This friendly guy, who drives a Ford F-550 with Virginia commercial tags TX 667, may have to look elsewhere for day laborers to hire for his commercial business from now on. The 7-Eleven on Coverstone Drive was the site of some actual enforcement of the law by Prince William County Police today, and for the first time in years was cleared of illegal alien day laborers. Efforts of the Crime Prevention Team of Help Save Manassas have started to make a difference in Prince William County, and between public efforts to discourage the unlawful employment of illegal aliens and quieter reaching out to business and property owners who are happy to have someone come to help them.

It will certainly take additional work to rescue these businesses and shut down day labor sites in the county, but for the first time, progress is being made. Hopefully some of the folks like Mr. Happy Pizza-Eating No-Hands Driver above will also get a lesson from the Virginia Department of Taxation about the potential consequences of flouting the law as well.

Ooh. I smell a lawsuit in the making if Greg makes a habit of posting these pictures and accusations without any proof to back them up. Hope he has deep pockets.

Oh now it’s starting to make sense… Greg said a while back that the owner of 7-11 could not afford to hire a security company so HSM has either footed the bill OR one of it’s members has a new job working for 7-11.

I wonder if HSM will organizer it’s self into a private security contract agency, you know like trigger happy Blackwater.

An Army for hire if you will. Soldiers of Fortune

Mercinaries…

Chris, I can understand anyone leaving an organization that wants to go in that direction. It’s very dangerous. Are they going to institute private cerfew on people, will they carry weapons? I remember Greg boasting about a huge supply of ammunition he won a few months ago.

If this is the case, you guys are in for some trouble. The Herndon Police had always expressed extreem displeasure with the Herndon Minutemen, yet not even they were so bold to become a neighboord Vigilante group.

Although I’m now Very Confident that the FBI will be take notice.

“The FBI should be interested in looking into some of this stuff.”

Did you report it? I just reported more hate-messages I got to the police. These are gender based/disability/gender preference slurs.

TH wrote

“I don’t know about your background but you cannot say that $400,000 houses in this area belong to upper class neighborhood. I am not saying it is a slum but in most suburbs that would be the cost of a condo.”

I agree. And I am disturbed about stereotypes about wealth, which is in the hands of people of different backgrounds, ages, ethnicities, etc. There is not a typical wealthy “professional.” Being wealthy means that well-to-do person is not typical. They are not necessarily going to have a “9 to 5″ like everyone.

Chris wrote:

Speaking of the sign. You can most literaly camp out at 9500 Liberty. Last night in the early evening there were about 5 tents set up and dinner was being grilled.

There was a story about the sign on WJLA last night, and it mentioned that a group (from CA, maybe? I forget) had come to see the sign (among other activities). I think they were the campers you saw yesterday. One of them is interviewed in the video.

http://cfc.wjla.com/videoondemand.cfm?id=18134&ref=home

Actually, here’s a better link to the video, with an accompanying story.

http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0708/534268.html

SA,
How does anyone know, how anybody affords anything? I often wonder this myself, sometimes in the middle of the day, I’m in Manassas running errands and think, why don’t these people have jobs. How could they all afford to be out spending money instead of working.

In the case of your neighbors, maybe they kept buying and selling every two years through the real estate boom? Who knows, maybe they have rich families, or do you believe that’s not a possibility, and if not, why not?

It reminds me, when we were looking for a home, model home salespersons with no idea about our financing actually attempted to steer us away from certain neighborhoods by saying things like the homes are really over priced in this neighborhood, you should look down the street where the homes are more reasonable. It isn’t right and neither are your assumptions that your neighbors couldn’t conceivably afford a home in YOUR neighborhood.

KG, I’ve got screen shots of the most vile or threatening messages. I’ll probably save them and send them as a group if I send them at all. I’m really surprised that the WaPo lets that garbage stand but it gives their online version of articles hits and in the process shows how bizarre some of the posters are. The problem that I see is that it also enables the hatred to rise in a more public arena…which some people will think validates it.

rod,
I hope you do understand I am NO longer a member of HSM. This current behavior is nothing I want to be associated with. Thank goodness this was not happening in my days as a member, because I would jump overboard on the spot. I find both groups hanging out up there to be troublesome in my mind. This of course is my personal opinion.

I honestly have no idea what they’re doing these other than what my daughter, mother, and myself have witnessed with “our own two eyes”. I don’t like this current direction in my native county. I find it all very sad.

Censored, that’s why I sent mine to the cops. I copy/paste but unfortunately, other people’s sane comments get mixed up in the insane ones. People really have nothing better to do than harass and spread their vile everywhere.

Chris, I agree that civil wars are not what we want. We want solutions. Glad you are out of the hate scene.

Casual,
Thanks for the videos. Mr. F says they won’t back down. Nice. I tell you one thing that might start some healing is if he would just take the remaining side of the house down that was to have been demolished. I could care less what the sign says. The problem is with the blatant zoning violation(s).

Oberserver,(Do I have that spelling right?)

Are you trying to point the readers here in a general direction? I would surmise from the clues you have dropped that Greg is the new security guard at the 7-11.

That certainly would be the rooster guarding the hen house, now isn’t it?

KG and Censored- ..I have to ask, Where is the Hate posts?? I went back and have read and read and read some posts but I dont see anything that is “vile” in the least, I do see a bunch of tit for tats but nothing that I would suspect as threatening or harassing.
I see some hostility ( from All sides) but nothing that requires police involvement.

Isnt this a no holds bar, get your opinions off your chest, bounce issues around kind of blog??? If I cant practice free speech without the threat of being reported to police then guess I will have to follow Emma out the door….

Just Cause,

Was that black velvet-ese for nah nah nah naaaaah nah?

Yawn! Don’t read the posts then.

Moon-howler, 9. July 2008, 11:24 SAID:
Just Cause,

Was that black velvet-ese for nah nah nah naaaaah nah?
__________________________________________________

MH- I dont get it??

Rick Bentley,

Moon-howler if you want to go to physical violence, maybe some American citizens who don’t like what is happening can go visit the Coverstone 7-11 with some baseball bats and clean house …

You could have a lot more to decry than Greg L. taking a picture oif a tax evader to worry about, if you want to start getting physical.

Please take your lunatic threats elsewhere. If you big bad mamas boys went to 7-11 with baseball bats the police would put you over their knee, spank you and throw you all in the slammer. Then you would be in jail for years to come, lose your house, lose your job, lose your wife, lose your mind,…and ultimately end up a drooling, babbling fool in a straight-jacket who doesn’t even notice when he urinates on himself. And who would be the orderlies who laugh at you while you flop around in your own excrement? Undocumented workers.

Is that what you want for your future?

The MACK is BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Censored was talking about comments to a Washington Post article online. And no, this isn’t a ‘no holds’ blog. If you say something that should be reported to the police, JC, it will be.

Actually, you can’t really assume much on a blog. That’s the risk you take. Is the learning curve that steep?

Amen Mackie!

Moon howler:

I mispelled my name and didn’t notice it.

As to what you say about the Coverstone 7-11, you can draw your own conclusions. Also that thread is open now for comments and there are some interesting ones in it.

My supervisor is going to be cleaning up yards in Georgetown South with his church the next two Saturdays. He enlisted my entire family and several of his neighbors. He also challenged all his employees and some are even coming from Arlington to help. Even my kids are excited. The foreclosure situation in the neighborhood has caused tremendous problems. I’m not sure of the exact times yet, but if you’re ready to walk the talk, you can get information from the Manassas Assembly of God Church. I’m sure they’ll appreciate all the help they get.

Be part of the solution instead of the rhetoric.

MH-
Anytime there is a debate, I think it should follow the “freedom of speech” that is why I tolerate your zingy comments but I chalk it up to you “blowing off steam”. I can only hope that in “real life” you wouldnt be soo belittling. As for the steep learning curve..Anything that is posted in Cyperspace is permanent and forever I understand that, I was inquiring where the ” hate” posts were coming from that the Police would of been involved, I just think that is ridiculous and people need to grow some tough skin or get out of cyperspace all together! Now if a person is getting personal emails full of threats and hate, thats another story..My philosophy is that if you can ” dish it out, You better be prepared to take it”.

Threatening a persons freedom of speech with the police…is well….Insane

Chris, I’m very glad your not with HSM anymore. All of us have our diffrences, but descending to militancy to achieve them is a self destructive path. It’s only a matter of time before someone gets hurt, or killed.

Fortunatly the Oaklahoma City bombing is something the FBI has never forgotten, and they will not hessitate to nutralize any homegrown terror orginization like HSM is turning into.

“Censored, that’s why I sent mine to the cops. I copy/paste but unfortunately, other people’s sane comments get mixed up in the insane ones. People really have nothing better to do than harass and spread their vile everywhere.’

You wasted the police’s time because of what? Where are these hate comments that you are talking about? So can all of the people that you slander send your comments to the police?

It’s called freedom of speech - and every one of the regular posters on this blog have been guilty of hate speech at one time or another. You know, people in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

You wish- Thank you !!!

My point exactly..I think its a tactic to “hush” the non-believers over here…

Militancy? HSM is working hand-in-hand with law enforcement as I understand it.

There are laws against loitering. I think they should apply to everyone. Is that militant?

Agreed, where are all these “hate posts” that were reported to the police. I would also like to know.

Interesting. You might want to report hate speech to your site host.

“BRIAN LEVIN
California State University, San Bernardino

American extremists have traditionally cultivated technology to enhance efficiency and promote goals. This article concentrates on how domestic right-wing and other extremists have used computer networks to these ends. Although the concept of a guerrilla insurgency through “leaderless resistance” became a factor in right-wing extremist movements before the Internet’s advent, cyberspace hastened its popularity. The Internet has been useful to hatemongers and extremists because it is economical and far reaching, and online expression is significantly protected by the First Amendment. Various court decisions have established that not all communication is protected, in cyberspace or elsewhere. Although the government cannot regulate Internet expression because it offends sensibilities, it can regulate expression that constitutes crimes that fall under various unprotected areas of speech. Courts have convicted hatemongers who use the Internet to communicate threats rather than merely ideas. Private service providers and foreign governments have greater latitude to prohibit offensive and hateful expression that does not constitute a threat. ”

http://abs.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/45/6/958

I would like to “see” them, I am wondering if they infact exist at all or if this is just a figment of a dangerous mind…

“Courts have convicted hatemongers who use the Internet to communicate threats rather than merely ideas.”

Who has threatened anyone on this blog? Words have been slung, but I haven’t seen someone come right out and say “I’m going to kill you” or “You’d better watch your back”. What exactly are you talking about, KG?

KG-
Can you please just give a sample of the posts that you received and feared as a threat that might consitute crime???

Interesting KG, several people have asked you to point out specific posts on this blog that you have reported to the police and so far you have provided no evidence.

If you don’t give us evidence we’ll just assume this is yet another attempt to silence those who disagree with you, like your previous attempts at labeling them as Nazis, Greg clones, etc. That’s probably what all this “reporting hate speech posts to the police” nonsense really is about, isn’t it?

For all you dim bulbs up there who can’t seem to follow the link to the WaPo comments section that I posted above (as well as the actual comment that threatened a violent overthrow of the country) go back and find it before belly-aching about something I didn’t say. I haven’t sent anything to the FBI that I’ve read at BVBL or the WaPo though I’ve made a lot of screen shots. Go back up there and read the selected comment and then come back and defend it, contrarian trolls.

I’m not talking about this blog. And unless you are sending hate notes directly to me, you have nothing to worry about.

We were talking about KG who said she DID send posts (and didn’t seem to refer to the Washington Post article but to this blog as she claimed they were directed at her personally). We want her to prove what she is saying once and for all, as otherwise she’ll lose all credibility on this blog. It just seems like one more in her many attempts to silence those she doesn’t agree with. No one has been asking you, Censored - they were asking KG. Maybe you are the “dim bulb” for not seeing that several people were asking KG to back up her claims.

Hey look - I found one!

kgotthardt, 26. June 2008, 11:06
Slowpoke, remind me to let you die a slow, miserable death the next time you violate civil law.

Doesn’t that constitute hate speech? Maybe I should send that to the police.

And censored, we were asking KG, not you.

OK KG, thanks for clarifying that. I was wrong in assuming you were referring to this blog. My apologies.

Censored- CHILLAX…Why cant you CUT and PAST it here, You put this out there, now defend it..Put your name to it!!!! Us dimbulbs dont want to have to find your needle in the haystack….

My blog disclaimer:
href=”http://www.namaii.com/readme/”>

Then again, you said:

“Censored, that’s why I sent mine to the cops. I copy/paste but unfortunately, other people’s sane comments get mixed up in the insane ones. People really have nothing better to do than harass and spread their vile everywhere.”

That doesn’t sound to me like you were referring to individual e-mails - as how could you mix together several people’s e-mails? Now you see why all of us thought you were talking about posts to a blog. You can cut/paste a single e-mail - how would you mix together “hate” and “non-hate” e-mails from different people (or as you put it - “people’s sane comments get mixed up in the insane ones”). Now it seems you are just changing what you said since you have no proof to offer of “hate posts”.

Censored is KG’s talking head…..

My blog disclaimer:
href=”http://www.namaii.com/readme/”>

Just cause, it’s pasted above but I guess you’re too blind to see it, contrarian troll.

Not sure that KG needs a talking head! So far KG is losing credibility fast as far as I’m concerned, since she seems to be changing her story. It seems to be clear that she was referring to blog posts, in her original post - but now claims to be referring to private e-mails she’s received. Which is it? If it is private e-mails than her original post about cut/pasting and inadvetently including non-hate posts doesn’t make much sense, does it?

Rick, finally we agree. The laws on loitering should apply to everyone–HSM members and daylaborer alike. Why is one loitering and the other not? Surely the red circle doesn’t offer up an aura of protection now does it?

LB,
Why don’t you chillax yourself? Never mind, don’t bother to answer you posts are of no interest to most. Go to bvbl it’s better suited for your mentality.

So, I just looked on KG’s blog and don’t see any hate mail that she has posted in the comments section.

Because Observer, this is a “hush” tactic…another nit witt idea stirred up by the infamous KG and her fellow Got-bot Censored and yes the tone has now changed then what they represented earlier.. It wouldnt surprise me if the 2 of them didnt create the threats under anonymous names to each other…Desperate people have been known to do desperate things..

I would of looovvveeddd to been a fly on the wall at the station after these “alleged” crime posts were reported to the police, Can you imagine…

My blog disclaimer:
href=”http://www.namaii.com/readme/”>

“kgotthardt, 26. June 2008, 11:06
Slowpoke, remind me to let you die a slow, miserable death the next time you violate civil law. ” My original post had the word IRONY next to it. Perhaps you should not edit my postings.

I don’t care if I lose credibility with trolls.

Just Cause - looks like KG finally shows her true colors when at first she talks about how she cut/pastes posts and inadvertently includes “sane” ones, and then in the next breath she says no, she meant e-mails being sent to her. Interesting. It doesn’t help her credibility, that’s for sure. I wonder what the police thought when they were handed these inadvertently included “sane” posts (oops, I mean e-mails)?

Doesn’t matter KG - still a threat. And where are those pesky hate e-mails you been getting? Just in your imagination?

Observer and JC - the police probably filed in the circular file, if you know what I mean

KG goes back to labeling people she doesn’t agree with as trolls. Similar to her previous attempts to label them as Nazis, Greg clones, etc. Interesting, since she protests so loudly when someone uses “illegal aliens” as a label. Another sign of a true hypocrite. She is losing credibility with more than just the “trolls”.

Oh, I better watch out, she might report this to the police as yet another one of those “hate posts”.

kgotthardt, 9. July 2008, 13:07 - LMBO said the one troll to the OTHER!

Censored- WE the people are over your CLOAK and DAGGER, Please CUT and PASTE those criminal emails..er…Posts….er……What ever they are again so we Dim bulbs can see for ourselfs BUT please dont forget the link from where they are posted…

Info Only- I SAID CHILLAX!!! Not LB….

KG - you are buying into those that troll here looking for a fight for the sole purpose of trying to make THE OTHER look less than hideous. Don’t let it get to you. You are working against yourself and other folks here.

They are easy spot. While they won’t be blocked, which is, one of their goals, we need to just skip over them.

Thats Ok Observer, Attach this readme link to your posts…Its a bloggers disclaimer. AS long as you reference it, There aint a thing that can be done..

KG- You might want to read it, It also states on this disclaimer that if you find posts that are offensive, abusive..blah blah the correct action taken should be to LOG OFF or CLOSE YOUR Browser!

My blog disclaimer:
href=”http://www.namaii.com/readme/”>

“KG - you are buying into those that troll here looking for a fight for the sole purpose of trying to make THE OTHER look less than hideous.”

Uh, no - we just looking for her to back up her statements, which she can’t seem to do -

Thanks, Juturna! My wanting to explain my writing sometimes gets the best of me, not comments from trolls. I guess I just don’t UNDERSTAND why someone would want to waste time being a troll. I really don’t get it.

JUTUR

I have been here far to long to be considered a passing by “troll”..I have beliefs and opinions like everyone else here, The difference HERE is that if you Disagree you are labeled a troll, If you make a point thats valid, your then labeled a Nazi..If you reference illegal activity you are provoking Genocide, if you challenge a persons word, then you are the KKK, If you ask for Proof on accusations, your a dim bulb…

and last but not least, when you HAVE NOTHING LEFT TO SAY, you recommended SILENCE….

My blog disclaimer:
href=”http://www.namaii.com/readme/”>

I guess I don’t understand why someone who can’t back up her comments resorts to labeling someone who asks her to back them up as a troll. Then again labels are her favorite thing - anyone she disagrees with gets a label, and her best hope is that they get off this blog so she can just have people she agrees with on here.

This is worse than teaching remedial reading. The hate speech spoken about by Censored was in the Washington Post. Laugh all you want, but comments made to a newspaper either by snail mail, phone or a blog are taken seriously and can bring the police to your door.

Would some of you be surprised to learn that students can be expelled for sending threatening email to a teacher or administrator or making a threat against the school (such as a bomb) or another student? Anything written in cyberspace leaves much more of an electronic footprint than if it was done by other methods.

Since you don’t know the content of the email and comments left for kgottardt, I wouldn’t comment. Just a word to the wise: Comparisons in style (or lack thereof) are being made as you speak. Most blog owners don’t wait for a subpoena. If the cops ask, they sing. Most…not all. Same with web hosts.

Time for the laughing to be over and to improve those reading comprehension skills.

You wish- She will never back up that statement just like she wouldnt accept my Challenge yesterday…and they have nerve to call people TROLLS…

The 7-11s should WORK TOGETHER with the illegal aliens. You know, tie-in promotions and so forth. Have a ditch dug, get a free 2-Liter bottle of Pepsi. With every 3 roofing jobs, you get a free pizza. Stuff like that. And of course with 5% of the profit sent to Mexico as remittances, to prop up the status quo over there.

You’re right, JC - she’s never backed up anything that she says. Shouldn’t have expected anything else from her other than the hiding and name calling.

Just Cause - you hit the nail on the head about how KG likes to label anyone she disagrees with as something. Her new label is troll. Before it was Nazi, a KKK member, they were enabling genoicide, or they were a Greg supporter. We’ve seen it time and time again.

Here’s a fact KG:

Just because you disagree with someone, doesn’t automatically make them any of those things. Show me one person who’s regularly disagreed with you on this blog that you haven’t applied some incorrect label to. I’m sure you’ll have a hard time proving that one!

Jedi-

Can you please provide the LINK to that article……..

Rick, that 7-11/Illegal promotion is a great idea! That’s the funniest thing I’ve heard in a long time.

Yoda -

We get this - “Laugh all you want, but comments made to a newspaper either by snail mail, phone or a blog are taken seriously and can bring the police to your door.”

What we are saying is that KG started by saying that she sent hate posts to the police.
When we asked her to back it up and show us where these “hate posts” were, she couldn’t. Then they were supposedly posted on her blog. Again - after checking her blog, there is nothing posted by anyone other than KG and Citizen Tom.

These weren’t comments made to a newspaper - they were supposedly made to KG on her blog, but she can’t show that they actually exist!

Well, she probably deleted them.

JC
……..and when you are silent is means you have nothing to say. You set that up beautifully!! Don’t misunderstand reasons for silence. It’s a powerful tool. And yes, you are an oldie but goodie.

KG - and there are people that are mean for the sake of being mean and I don’t get them. There are simply people that we don’t get along with. Doesn’t mean anything about either.

You Wish — It COULD be POSSIBLE that if you file a report or are in the process of an ongoing investigation, you COULD be asked not to disclose the details. I’ve heard that happens.

JUTU- Set what up beautifully, That I am calling KG out and your only defense is Silence?

Usually when a person is silent, it is just that…they either have nothing to say or want to say nothing ( But in this case, when you have no facts to back a statement, just be still and be silent and hope the subject changes)

No one is being any MEANER than the Next person here and thank you for your psychology 101 and if that was ALLL it took to hush KG up… I could of counseled her free of charge ALOOONNNNGGGG time ago!

Just wondering what the context was that made her think it was hate speech. Was it a fat broad comment? If that’s what she considers hate speech, she should go back and read up on what the courts consider hate speech.

Juturna, 9. July 2008, 13:37
You Wish — It COULD be POSSIBLE that if you file a report or are in the process of an ongoing investigation, you COULD be asked not to disclose the details. I’ve heard that happens.

THEN WHY MENTION IT AT ALL!!!!! ECSPECIALLY IN CYBERSPACE!! AND YOU SET THAT UP BEAUTIFULLY…

CAREFUL LADIES..YOUR DIGGING DEEPER AND DEEPER AND DEEPER…

Glad to give you my line to use.

She can mention it, ususally it’s the details that are not to be released.

Have a wonderful afternoon.

Just Cause - excellent point, if she wasn’t allowed to talk about it because it was under investigation, then why mention it at all?

You Wish - if it was the comment that you referred to (fat broads) then KG has made far more harsher comments about people referring to them as Nazis, KKK members, etc. Interesting!

Juturna- Give yourself a pat on the back…you are wise and thank you for allowing me to use your line…

LMAAAAAAAAAOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Oh my goodness, never have I ever seen such back peddling, word alterations and flip spins on scenerios like I have seen today.

OOOPS and Curious minds want to know..Wheres that picture of Corey Stewart hanging out at the 7-11 participating with the HSM’s…Someone was suppose to post it..I cant find it..Please provide that link as well…

Just Cause - they still are working on it in Photoshop - it’s taking a long time to make it look authentic enough so no one will question it once it gets posted!

Learn to make proper contractions. YOUR is possessive. YOU ARE forms the contraction YOU’RE.

The English lesson is over. Raiders should know better.

Master Yoda may be old but he is not a lady.

Master Jedi-

Learn ta make proper contractions. YOUR iz possessive.
YOU ARE forms da contraction YOU’RE.

The English lesson iz over. Raiders should know bettah.

Brace yourself foo’!

sho ’nuff!

He who laughs loudest laughs last.

There stands Just like a stone wall. Rally around the cause.

or something like that…..

Sorry Thomas Jonathan and Barnard Elliot to take such Jedi liberties.

A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack because
a Jedi’s strength flows from the Force. But beware of the dark side. Anger, fear, aggression; the dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did Obi-Wan’s apprentice.”

On to greater challenges….I grow weary with such dull students. Back to Dagobah for a much needed nap and to replenish the force for more powerful opponents.

JC sure sounds like oops on the dark paged blog.

And a special oops at that…

Censored and information only, a VERY special oops.

I am surprised some folks don’t get torn apart, with a foot in each blog domain, just posting away at both. I am glad I am not paying their salary. Have you seen those little mirrors people put on their monitor so they can see their boss coming down the hall?

And those who are working for themselves…business must not be so good.

Ummm. So much trolling. So little time (er… is that too much time?)

With all these trolls. Please, where is Billy Goat’s Gruff?

Ooops! said on 9 Jul 2008 at 12:12 pm:
Was this thread closed down for awhile?? Seems that was the TOPIC on the wild side this AM…..

Oops..She did it again. The first thread still is closed for comment. Looks like you told a little white lie on the dark paged blog. Just Cause I thought you’d like to have someone point out your MISINFORMATION!!
FYI-this was just copied from there.
McCain Courts The Communists
By Greg L | 9 July 2008 | National Politics | No Comments

You can follow the discussion through the Comments feed. You can also pingback or trackback from your own site.

Comments are closed.

Views: 165

This is the “wild side”.hahah! Well, I guess that’s better than being a group of local Barney Fife’s.

Ok, how’s this for a solution - we increase the quota of legal immigrants allowed into the US. This would decrease the number of illegal immigrants coming in while increasing the supply of (legal) labor - thus, decreasing the demand for illegal labor.

Is that too simple?

Guilty ( never tried to hide it to begin with)

I wanted to get some confirmation on WHY the thread was closed..
(per discussions above) and THIS IS THE WILD SIDE, with so much conspiracy theories and so much back biting…Its freakin WILD……..

Who said Barney Fife???

Elena- Your right, back to discussions at hand so I can be pounced on somemore, called names and labeled a troll etc etc..

Censored- Two can play your game my dear. I havent released personal info….yet…

JC, what game might that be? I think a lot of people already know.

Don’t forget tonight’s webinar if you signed up.
Cindy B,
Thanks for your great information as always. You truly care. That can’t be said for ALL in our county, and I include the City of Manassas, and City of MP in that statement.

Censored bybvbl-

Then why ask??

Peace out peeps!

It’s funny Elena, you always state how the conversation degenerates into meaningless attacks yet it seems on this thread, like many others it was one of the frequent posters on this board attacking someone they disagree with that started the whole thing. There was nothing in the previous posts in this thread that merited this personal attack, and from there the thread degenerated. If you make a careful study of threads on this blog, more often than not the personal attacks are first started against those that do not agree with the majority of the posters on this blog. Somehow the usual justification is those attacks are nothing compared to what goes on at the “other blog”. Some justification.

The very first post in this thread attacking someone is:

kgotthardt, 8. July 2008, 15:12

Just Cause, you’re nothing but a troll. Forget you and your boredom or whatever it is that drives you to waste people’s time.

It’s funny Elena, you always state how the conversation degenerates into meaningless attacks yet it seems on this thread, like many others it was one of the frequent posters on this board attacking someone they disagree with that started the whole thing. There was nothing in the previous posts in this thread that merited this personal attack, and from there the thread degenerated. If you make a careful study of threads on this blog, more often than not the personal attacks are first started against those that do not agree with the majority of the posters on this blog. Somehow the usual justification is those attacks are nothing compared to what goes on at the “other blog”. Some justification.

The very first post in this thread attacking someone is:

kgotthardt, 8. July 2008, 15:12

Just Cause, you’re nothing but a troll. Forget you and your boredom or whatever it is that drives you to waste people’s time.

Do I see smoke coming from a dark place??????

Chris, I am glad you put up a reminder. How about times also. Can we count on your as the blog alarm clock on this one?

After reading all of this, I have a public announcement

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytJpZguSy2U

This goes to KG, and who ever else…

I don’t see what is so wrong with asking KG for proof that she received threatening messages which she had to report to police, and then you call the person a troll? Odd since a few days ago I gave an example of an incident I had at a 7-11 and Firedancer said the incident which I spoke of “was a flat out lie” and wanted me to have my wife explain exactly what was said. Nobody ever called him/her a troll for calling me a liar or asking for proof. What’s that all-aboot?

That’s because the only ones who are called trolls on this blog are people who don’t agree with the majority of the posters on this blog. No one has ever called one of the people who agree with the majority view on this blog a troll. The name calling on this blog is very one sided, and it is constantly defended as being OK.

An oberserver, I agree, it seems as if someone here questions certain people they get ganged up on and called names but they can call you a liar and demand proof and nobody says anything.

MH:
You can count on me as the “community alarm clock”.
6:30 is the time, your internet, and your telephone.
So, it an hour and a half countdown.

Censored, you gave an example of almost the exact same incident and even provided me with tactic to use the next time it happened (which I do appreciate, I told my wife about it last night, thank you). You didn’t call Firedancer a troll or stick up for me in any way… I’m just sayin.

Also, about the topic, I thought my suggestion of bridging the language gap was a good start. Neighbors need to be able to communicate with one another if any community is going to come together.

I had asked if any of the bi-lingual posters here have ever volunteered to start and/or teach Engligh classes. The only person who repliced was you wish (you wish and his mother volteered to teach ESL). So not one bi-lingual person here has even tried to teach English to anyone?

Hello, I am not bi-lingual and I have helped people with English in the past. You don’t need to be bi-lingual in order to work with people wanting to learn English. There are several programs in the county. I will email my friend who is currently working with several Korean ladies and find out the name of the organization.

May I be honest though? I hesitate to publish the name of any organization that reaches out to immigrants because the name ‘illegal immigrant apologist’ would be said by someone. I wouldn’t want to bring on the wrath of the black velvets on any organization that wants to provide a service in this county. Do you understand my dilemma?

No organization that I know of would demand to know status before accepting a student.

Hello,

Let me also add, that on these long threads, I often overlook many of the posts. If I have to play catch up, which is often the case, I overlook things people have said. The is sometimes a good thing. I expect I am not unique in overlooking.

Additionally, and I do not mean to attribute this habit to you, some people make suggestions in such a tone that you wouldn’t honor their request if your life depended on it.

Moon-howler, I understand your dilemma. Also, I would have to agree with you that you don’t have to be bi-lingual to help someone with English, I do the same all of the time. I go to a particular restaurant in Manassas (I’m not going to name it) where most people do not speak English. I hang there with my buddies almost every weekend and I know the owner. Most of the wait staff don’t know English and I have an agreement with one of the waitresses, Ill teach her English words and she teaches me Spanish words.

I just think that if you are bi-lingual you could put that to good use, especially if you brag about how much you support and help out the immigrant community (not going to name names).

This is totally unrelated but I remember a few of the ladies here talking about how much the loved Erik Estrada, you should love this then (I though it was kind of funny): http://www.break.com/lg/erik-estrada-attacked-by-little-person.html

hello,

He still looks good LOL

Elena, I can see how having two children would make it difficult, I don’t have any kids but babysat my niece and nephew for 3 days two weeks ago which by the way is great birth control for anyone thinking of having kids.

Yeah, the wife and I have reevaluated our decision on having kids after that experience. We are still recovering but once we are back to normal we will approach the subject again, cautiously.

hello, 9. July 2008, 18:58

I can see how having two children would make it difficult, I don’t have any kids but babysat my niece and nephew for 3 days two weeks ago which by the way is great birth control for anyone thinking of having kids.

LOL! And there are those that will tell you that it’s different with your own kids. Don’t believe them.

Disclaimer: I have two of my own. Wouldn’t trade them for anything, but I would like to have my hair back.

hello,
watch the new show on NBC, I think it airs tonight, called the Baby borrowers…kids are cute and they grow up…well you have to go thru the TEENAGER stage and THEN , hopefully they do…LOL!

Prince William County…needs a hero…

http://www.break.com/index/dark-knight-trailer-spoof.html

Hello,

I think your language arrangement at the restaurant is really neat. I used to help with English at a local Chinese restaurant many years ago. It didn’t last horribly long but it was definitely fun while it lasted.

Mi Espanol es muy malo. I am sort of lame in foreign languages. I have 4 years of Spanish. Years and years ago. No one would want to hear me muddle through. I have studied several. I was always marginal.

Oh bull…I am lying. I failed Italian. There, I have confessed.

Moon-howler, I’m not that great at pickup up different languages either. However, I’m committed to learn Italian because I’m going to be going to Sicily, with about 20 relatives, for a few weeks next year. It’s where my family is from so we are getting back to our roots so to speak. My family has a street named after it in a town in Sicily so we are going to stay in the town my family is from. I’m thinking about getting the Rosetta Stone for Italian, Ill let you know if it works.

hello, Rosetta Stone is good software. The best I’ve found. If you’re going to italy, any spanish you’ve learned should help you. They’re almost the same language.

Hi Mackie, we will be spending all of our time in Sicily (Termini Imeresi to be specific) , but thanks for the tip.

How do we move forwards toward positive community solutions?

I’ve said it a million times but no-one who advocates for “illegal” behavior ever listens.
You simply enforce the existing law, written by the people for the people, voted by congress representing the people, who are a MAJORITY on the vote. You simply then ENFORCE that same racial, gender, religious, ethnic group NEUTRAL law, on all individuals the SAME, in its ENTIRETY, to protect ALL 360 million Ameicans from the lack of “ethics, remorse and character” of 12-20 million “illegal”aliens from a MULTITUDE of different races, genders, religions and ethnic groups. You DON”T get bogged down in petty name calling debates, and special interest group passions and fits of un-justified sympathy for people who break a law designed to PROTECT 360 million Americans from the HUNDREDS of damaging actions dumped on citizens and legal residents by the callousness of “illegal” aliens who simply want what they want and will take what they want, regardless if it hurts anyone else or not.

You control “unreasonable” growth, with reasonable quotas (like we have now under law), and you ENFORCE those growth quotas, AND search out all offenders who ignore those quotas. You ESPECIALLY do not give Amnesty to people who break the law, if you ever want the viscious “illegal” cycle to stop. The FAILURE and POVERTY is a failure of the law to be enforced, in totality and without predjudice on everyone the same. You cannot “fix” the system by giving amnesty, when it will only encourage more “lawbreaking” by a new wave of lawbreakers all BEGGING for the same sympathy you gave the first and second 10 million “illegal” aliens.
Its that simple, everything else will FAIL. You have only to look at the failures of other nations to enforce law and allow crime and militant political groups to grow to know this all leads to ethnic and class wars if you do not enforce it fairly ,and equitably and consistently.

Michael,

Don’t you understand that current immigration law itself is example of racial, gender, religious, ethnic group abuse?

Michael, you are supporting racial, gender, religious, ethnic group division. You are dividing the country. Please stop the hypocrisy.

Hello, that sounds like a wonderful trip. Have you been before?

I agree with you about the kids. I have some. And they are your kids forever, once you have them. It doesn’t matter how old they get. Enjoy your youth. The worst reason for having kids is because your parents want to be grandparents, by the way.

Mackie, bite your tongue. re: Italian. No it isn’t! I thought it would be when I signed up to take it at YOUR college many moons ago. Such was not the case. Both romance languages. Maybe Hello will have much better luck than I did. I had many distractions and there were only 6 of us in the class with 3 of them already knowing Italian from having grandparents or living there. The other 3 of us failed. Oh sell.

Hello, I have been to Italy and the language is in a lot of ways, similar to Spanish. Rosetta Stone is excellent software, but a couple of hints. Buy version three because it has voice recognition software for your computer and please, check a site like e-bay before you purchase. I should have and would have saved a bundle. The new software will cost you about $240 but you can find it on some used sites for 1/2 the price.

I wish Rosetta Stone was around when I was failing Italian. It really wasn’t a very good learning environment. The 3 Italian speakers ran right over top of us 3 non-speakers. Did I leave off that the professor didn’t speak English? My Spanish did me NO good. I knew just enough to have it confuse me. But then again, I am extremely lame about foreign languages.

Mackie,

Tell me SPECIFICALLY how the current legal immigration law is an example of racial, ethnic, gender abuse? Just because you say so? Just, because it affects “specific numbers” of people from different ethnic groups, that by CHOICE choose to break the law.

Specifically describe to me how that law is NOT only applied to people who BREAK the law, regardless of their gender, race, religion or ethnic group.

You can check ALL of my posts on all three blogs and you will specifically see I have NOT promoted gender, racial, religious and ethnic group in-equality, or separation, or diversity, but have specifically supported that we need to be INTEGRATED and blind to racial, gender, religious and ethnic group political issues, Enforce the law the same on everyone and specifically STOP breaking into racial, gender, religious, and ethnic political groups each trying to apply existing fair and JUST laws differently to themselves and their political “group” based on the ethic group they politically advocate for.

It is people like you who try to twist these words to mean something they are not to gain sympathy for your own twisted idealogy, that somehow bad people, mean people, criminals and people who knowingly and willingly break the law deserve the nation’s sympathy.

Mackie, YOU are the hypocrite, and the typical bigot, reaching for straws just to feel good about your opined opinion that we who advocate law enforcement of “laws” are somehow (in your twisted mind) dividing the nation into different gender, racial, religious, and ethnic political groups. The LAW is not doing that, nor are the people who want the law enforced doing that. It is our two presidential candidates and the two radical sides of both political parties who are dividing the American nation into warring gender, racial, religious and ethnic politcal factions.

Police arrest suspected serial rapist

MIAMI BEACH, Fla. (WSVN) — Police have arrested a man they are calling a serial rapist.

At a press conference Thursday afternoon, Miami Beach Police announced the capture of 29-year-old Arturo Soto and asked the public if anyone out there may have been victimized by this same man. So far they think he is responsible for at least two rapes and one attempted rape.

Police apprehended Soto Wednesday night after an attempted sexual battery. The chef at the Maya Tapas and Grill restaurant, near where the latest attack occurred, said graphic surveillance video outside the restaurant, which police have confiscated as evidence, looked like something out of a horror movie.

Police said Soto reportedly lured a woman into an alley at 14th Street and Collins Avenue where he punched her bloody and fled on foot after he became nervous.

Police officers caught up with him soon after, and, authorities said, he confessed to the crime. During the course of the questioning of Soto, authorities determined he is also a suspect in the November 2006 rape of a woman behind the Presidential Hotel, located at 1423 Collins Avenue, also in an alley.

Police added that he is also a suspect in the more recent sexual battery of a woman who was visiting from out of town. This attack occurred on June 24, outside a Miami Beach parking garage, again in an alley, near 919 Collins Avenue.

According to the police report on the June 24 attack, the attacker also roughed up the victim, pushing her down and sexually assaulting her. She then ran to a nearby parking garage to ask for help. “She came to me running and screaming and crying, asking for help,” said Jairo Arenas, a parking lot attendant at the parking garage on 10th Street and Collins Avenue. “She was telling me that she was raped close by.”

Bond was first set for Soto at $87,500, but Judge Lawrence A. Schwartz raised it to $240,000, when police said Soto was in the U.S. illegally from Guatemala and may be a flight risk.

Again, if you or anyone you know recognize Soto from a similar rape, police would like to hear from you.