Illogical Stewart Strikes Again
Chairman Stewart is on the press circuit again ‘touting the benefits’ of the ‘Immigration Resolution’. And, this time instead of his usual anecdotal stories about shorter lines at emergency rooms, or drops in ESOL students, he suggests there is a connection between a lower crime rate and the Immigration Resolution. Frankly, it’s laughable.
According to the DC Examiner, Stewart’s theory is that crime rates drop when ‘illegals’ leave. The converse of this statement being that the crime rate increases when ‘illegals’ arrive. It’s a pretty simple hypothesis and easily verifiable. If this hypothesis is true, as we have this supposed influx of ‘illegals’ that purportedly necessitated some action on our part, we should see clear statistical evidence witnessed by higher crime rates in the years preceding the resolution.
So, let’s review, according to the article, in 2004 the crime rate per thousand is 24.5, then in 2005, as more ‘illegals’ are ‘flooding into the area bringing their lawlessness and economic hardship with them’, using Stewart’s logic a higher crime rate is excepted but that’s not what happens! Prince William County experiences a drop in crime equal to that of the drop between 2006 and 2007. Additionally, it’s not just a drop from 2004 to 2005 but AGAIN from 2005 to 2006, then the same from 2006 to 2007! Very simply, Stewart’s theory is proven incorrect. The resolution can not reasonably be referenced as the reason why the crime rate has once again decreased for the 4th year in a row.
Yeah, when I read that article the first thing I thought was, like other commenters, “How could a brand new policy affect the crime rate in 2008?” Of course, the local ranters said “because when the illegals heard about the policy, even before it was implemented, they all left.” To which I thought, “well if houses were foreclosed in general, regardless of people’s citizen status, there would be fewer people in PWC so the crime rate would go down anyway.” In other words….fewer people to commit crimes and fewer people to kill. I wondered what Chief Dean had to say about that.
Stewart just loves to lie to people, doesn’t he?
Elena , Kg, etal,
When will you give up?
Nice try and I commend everyone BUT the truth is ( the final layer of the ONION)
It ALL comes down to the HANG LOW theory of the FAT BROADS….go figure?!? LOL
Excellent post Alanna!
I did a little digging of my own on this bogus hypothesis being espoused by Corey, et al. Here are some interesting facts that play a role in the decrease of crime. This may be surprising to Corey and others, but our dilligent police department deserves much of the credit! Sorry Corey, life doesn’t all revolve around you and your perceived feelings of grandeur. Here are some interesting facts about our police department:
THe CID’s initiative of assigning the Special Investigations Unit to Robbery suppression in specific areas that saw a drastic increase of immigrants being victims of robberies has clearly had a very positive outcome. The Police have made it known through community meetings (crime prevention etc.) that there will be mandatory arrests for domestic assaults and that may lessen the number of them. Homicide is usually a crime of sudden anger or passion. There is no prediction for the homicide rate that is accurate.
It is a shame that Corey failed to point out these great pro-active initiatives our Police Department has taken to truly combat violent crime. It is our police department that deserves the thanks, not a costly, unresearched, and unproven anti illegal immigration resolution.
Red Dawn,
We really must get under Robert Duecaster’s skin, he just can’t let go of that one
No video to accompany your comment
Excellent work, ladies!!
opppsss…. Elena/Alanna…I covered myself with the etal clause
Anyway, it may be easier if some people call 1-800-jenny for some solutions INSTEAD of soul searching and EGO shrinking….hmmm, is there a patent attny out there? LOL
I have a serious question for you all. Alanna, in the title of this post you call Stewart “illogical.” Do you REALLY think he is illogical? Or is he really, as I tend to believe, dishonest?
It just doesn’t make sense that someone with a law degree could not have the kind of logic we are talking about here. I know a degree doesn’t mean much sometimes, but I really can’t believe this man is stupid. I see him as deceptive and manipulative. What do you all think?
Elena 21:27
CAUTION!!!!!!!!!!!! look side to side and over your shoulder before you click on this on..but hey there are SOME political figures talked about……LOL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ_ZFpPnyog
This is serious, we have not touched on why one should have to become THICK skinned to deal with these ISSUES….
I’m trying to be diplomatic, but between the two of us; manipulative works for me. He is desperate to spin this thing into something ‘positive’ for himself, presumably as a stepping stone to something more. I’ve always believe it’s about political motivation but then again it’s conceivable that he’s bought into this non-sense.
Thanks, Alanna. I’m working on that “diplomacy” thing but I don’t think it has kicked in yet.
The crime rates are statistics manipulated by Cheif Deane’s Police Department. In and of themselves they may not mean much.
But the streets obviously ARE safer without so many undocumented walking them. Enough of us here know it and appreciate it. People who used to stay in their houses are now enjoying fresh air again. Stewart is and will remain popular. Try to convince yourself this isn’t true if you like.
860 criminal illegal immigrants have had detainers put on them on them at the ADC since July 10, 2007. I think 720 of them have been deported. Those are pretty telling figures.
I will give Corey a chance ( I think/KNOW I am LATE in the game on that one, as the majority of you have ALREADY done so…) I was a supporter of him until I saw the ELECTION REFLECTION in his eyes( AGAIN, you all have seen that one)
I will give HIM the chance ( not yours, mine..LOL) that yes, he was ALL of those: manipulative , etc. with SELF centered agendas…ummm…isn’t that what a politician does? ( where is Bob?)
and if you don’t, I guess you are part of F.A.I.R. game and what a S.H.A.M.E that would be….
Anyway, I am willing to give him the benefit for the reason that I do see that WE as a county ( nation) were all had….and it was not when LOVE came to town…Corey, WAKE THE F”"”" UP! There is hope
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wH81Klu1FAw
Corey,
Search YOUR heart(no one can blame YOU, if YOU admit, YOU fell for it too)
YES!!!!!!!, Something needs to be done and I would think you see that it is not as easy as you once THOUGHT.
MAYBE, that would be because it is expected of you to manipulate, etc., to get ahead and at WHAT cost and YOU were CHARGING it up to pay for it later?
LOOK AT THE COUNTRY!!!????!!!!!
What do YOU really ( being HONEST) want to say? What is it that YOU would change?
Even the best can fall down and be had…..Okay, a song comes to mind.
I would rather YOU answer one way or another and go from there….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JSBhI_0at0
Rick,
I do respect you BUT guess WHAT? There was a time that WE ( I am including YOU too) that was able to leave our car doors and front doors/windows UNLOCKED, right here in PWC..I STILL have a bad habit of NOT doing so! OLD habits are to break, I get this and can become sadden by it.
The thing is that YOU and I have to ask ourselves ( and Corey) IS this REALLY the solution to the BIG PICTURE? Go click and flip the finger to BVBL and see if they have any MORE concerns or answers…and PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, tell the that JENNY sent YOU
Sounds like Chairman Stewart is a fan of truthiness.
Truthiness, I LOVE it Kyledeb!
Rick,
Would you please clarify your point about Chief Deane and his manipulation of crime stats please? On one hand you say crime has decreased and the resolution/corey are responsible for that decline, but on the other hand you say that the statistics are unreliable, which is it? Was crime steadily declining from 2004-2008 or not?
A true leader would commend those under him for their extraordinary efforts in bringing down crime. An opportunistic political blow-hard would take the credit for himself and use the initiatives he supports as a reason for the occurrence.
Which is Corey Stewart?
A. a true leader
B. An opportunistic political blow-hard
Circle the correct answer.
One could argue that the resolution itself is one huge mass crime perpetrated against thousands of innocent working class families. From this perspective, the crime rate has skyrocketed…
Sounds like the level of crime just got lowered in Richmond. Oh, illegals have no impact on crime? http://www.wtvr.com/Global/story.asp?S=8568846
Permanent campaign mode. This is what the former White House Secretary called the style of politics perfected by the Bush White House. Corey Stewart is obviously a huge fan. Otherwise, he’d be devoting his efforts to governing right about now… right about when we have an economic and foreclosure crisis which he has compounded with his inept and selfish “leadership.”
Right about now would be a good time to stop running to the newspapers with “illogical” AND “dishonest” propaganda for the purposes of … what? Running a strong campaign for the 2011 Election? By that time, the cat will be out of the bag. Corey Stewart will be remembered as a George-Bush-Wannabe, all-electioneering-no-problem-solving former Chairman who resigned in disgrace when community outrage over the consequences of the Duecaster Disaster (the Immigration Resolution) reached its boiling point in mid 2009.
Elena, I am not saying Deane manipulated stats any more one year than the other, or more or less than his predecessor. I’m just saying statistics like those don’t mean much. Anyone who watches “The Wire” will remember how easy it is to manipulate statistics, and know why it is done constantly …
You can’t tell me that having thousands of people around you who law enforcement can’t track and doesn’t know past background of, speaking in a language most of us don’t know, made this area safer. It’s safer now.
Red Dawn, it IS the answer. The fight against illegal immigration is a LONG UPHILL one but I believe common sense and national sovereignity will prevail. 2007 was the flash point. Now my side just plays this issue out strategically - when someone suggests amnesty (as Obama or McCain certainly will) we mobilize public opinion and scare heck out of Congress. And gradually, things get better, and word gets out that the US is NOT a haven for illegal aliens, and people stop paying 10K and getting raped in the desert to pay their way over by the millions. This was always a long fight but we’re past the tipping point, locally and nationally. And resisting amnesty and criminalizing illegality IS the answer. Long-term.
The reason that it’s a long fight is not because the American people don’t have a consistent, predictable reaction to the core questions. Nor is it a long fight because we lack resources to protect ourselves.
It is a long fight because the elitists who run our government are engaged in conspiracy against public will, and refuse to enforce laws they swore to uphold. They do this because it makes the rich richer, and because the world looks very different from their ivory towers. They think of illegal aliens as the smiling gardeners and nannies they and their friends have been employing for decades. If they thought of them as the scowling man-child who lived in a group of 15 next to me for 2 years, leering at my daughter and thumping noise through the walls all the time, if they had to deal with that, they’d have a very different reaction and the whole problem could be solved very quickly.
“One could argue that the resolution itself is one huge mass crime perpetrated against thousands of innocent working class families. From this perspective, the crime rate has skyrocketed…”
When you consider enforcing current law to be a criminal act in and of itself … perhaps you need to stop intellectualizing nonsense, take a sedative, and try to get back in touch with reality.
SA,
I’ll give you this. Gangs will look more appealing if these young people don’t have viable alternatives, this is why the DreamAct is so important.
SA,
But really, how does Corey attempt to take credit for a crime rate that has been decreasing for 4 years and attribute or rather attempt to attribute it to the resolution? It’s completely absurd.
you just have to be around to see the decreases in crime, however they occur it’s a fact they ARE occuring, here’s why:
1. illegal immigrants are moving due to:
a. shortage in construction jobs
b. recession in the economy
c. the 287g program
d. resolution
I would submit that the economy is why they are leaving for the most part, followed by the other reasons I listed. with them leaving they are taking their crime with them. that’s my synopsis. whenever the economy get’s bad or property get’s too hard for people to afford the migrate to lower-income areas to survive. It’s called in some circles as “gentrification” similar to what has happened in D.C. over the years, low income people moving out with higher-income people moving in to fill the gap.
from my eyes in roving around the court house daily I see criminals constantly, many are hispanic an a pretty great percentage of those are illegal aliens . however I would say the bulk of the crime is made up of other races when you get down to pure numbers.
so, removing illegal aliens will reduce crime when you have an area that is saturated with a hispanic population regardless of HOW that removal was accomplished.
Rick Bentley, the only law enforcement officials who would agree with your firmly implanted head-in-the-sand idea that we are safer WITHOUT community policing are assholes like the KKK Sherif of Arizona. Community policing, since you probably haven’t thought this through, is policing built on trust. Police Officers need to have the trust of the community … that includes people of color, I might add, since you haven’t thought this through … in order to do their jobs.
The Police Force has a wider duty that to enforce immigration codes. They also have to solve crimes. To solve crimes, you need the victims to feel safe in REPORTING CRIMES, including people of color since you haven’t though this through. To solve crimes, you need people to feel safe in coming forward to provide information and to bear witness to crimes … including people of color since you haven’t thought this through. People of color, whose parents grew up in eras before laws were passed to prevent racial profiling, or, who have seen rare but infamous cases of racially motivated police brutality in the news, or, who have immigrated here from Asian, Latin American, or African countries where the Police is a para-military force conducting political persecution … ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE have barriers to trusting our Police Officers, no matter what county or state they happen to live in.
In THIS county, my head-in-the-sand friend Rick Bentley who hasn’t thought this through, there are a heck of a lot of people of color … even WITH your precious Immigration Resolution … there are people of color still here.
Now, thanks to your precious Immigration Resolution, our Police Force has one eye shut and one hand tied behind its back. Their ability to solve and prevent crime has a gaping blind spot that is our communities of color.
And here’s the newsflash, Rick Bentley who hasn’t thought this through:
Criminals, real criminals, the ones who might do you harm, do not limit themselves to non-white victims. If their first victim happens to be, say, ethnic, and the crime is not solved, they are likely to commit another crime, and another.
Not only has your Duecaster Disaster ruined our reputation, damaged our ability to compete economically with neighboring counties, delayed our recovery from the foreclosure crisis which it has demonstrably deepened, and hurt our tax revenue thus affecting all areas of public service … not only has your Immigration Resolution made us less admired, less prosperous, and less peaceful as a community … it has also made us less safe.
“the only law enforcement officials who would agree with your firmly implanted head-in-the-sand idea that we are safer WITHOUT community policing are assholes like the KKK Sherif of Arizona”
OH!!! Reverend Wright over here!
You forgot to mention Hilter, Nazis, Racism, etc.
“I’ll give you this. Gangs will look more appealing if these young people don’t have viable alternatives, this is why the DreamAct is so important.”
You forgot the best alternative…return to your country!
You forgot the best alternative…return to your country!
You mean the countries were they can work for American manufacturers for even less than they can get here? The countries we ruined with our greedy Capitalism? It was Americans that made those places what they are today, those people ARE in thier own country!
…or should I say “Owned” country.
Elvis:
You forgot some of the primary factors in your list:
1. Increase in the number of police officers
2. Substantive changes in the way the PD approaches crime prevention
“I’ll give you this. Gangs will look more appealing if these young people don’t have viable alternatives, this is why the DreamAct is so important.”
Kinda ironic, since MS-13 is sanctioned by the El Salvordian government (ask any PWC cop on the gang task force). They don’t come here to get a “better life”, they come here to destroy ours.
“The fight against illegal immigration is a LONG UPHILL”
Rick et al…the real FIGHT is to get our politicans off their butts and give us immigration reform. Local government is NOT the answer to a NATIONAL problem. If we had strong, caring leadership in this county and in our country, we would not be having this turmoil.
“so, removing illegal aliens will reduce crime when you have an area that is saturated with a hispanic population regardless of HOW that removal was accomplished.”
Elvis, yes, that was an incredibly racist thing to say! You are targeting Hispanics, specifically.
However, I think your statistical analysis is correct. Perhaps you should notify Corey.
Hey, KG - read all of the post from Elvis:
“from my eyes in roving around the court house daily I see criminals constantly, many are hispanic an a pretty great percentage of those are illegal aliens . however I would say the bulk of the crime is made up of other races when you get down to pure numbers.”
Quit picking out what you feel is racist and ignoring the rest. Elvis said that while a great percentage are illegal and hispanic, most of the crime is from individuals from other races. Stop blurring the lines.
“Rick et al…the real FIGHT is to get our politicans off their butts and give us immigration reform. Local government is NOT the answer to a NATIONAL problem. If we had strong, caring leadership in this county and in our country, we would not be having this turmoil.”
No, the real fight is to have the law enforced. If you are here illegally, you need to have consequences. No questions asked, no reform. Start enforcing the law and then reform the system. Why is it that people that are here illegally are entitled to more privledges that those that are here legally? Why are people that are deported allowed to come back into the country to continue to commit crimes? I don’t get it.
Since when is Corey Stewart a crime analyst? Along with all the other things his leadership has crapped up in this county, now he has to interpret crime statistics, to his own advantage of course.
Initiatives from the police department have done much to cut down on crime. Increased visibility in certain areas and simply hiring more officers over a period of time have helped cut down on Prince William Crime. Prince William County Police Department also continues to set the bar extremely high for selection and hiring of new officers. Those who decide to try law enforcement as a career know that it is far more difficult to be selected by PW Co than other jurisdictions. Professionalism and high standards help reduce crime.
Speaking of visibility, Chief Deane also goes out among the people of the county. He is everyone’s police chief, not just the white middle class folks. He met with many different groups before the resolution went into effect, explaining to people exactly what the resolution would and would not do. Even though he was criticized by the deputies of the red circle for this action, he continued to serve the needs and people of this county.
Corey Stewart wants it both ways. He wants to distance himself and his resolution from the foreclosures, empty houses, and million dollar plus expenses of vacant house/lot upkeep. He wants to blame the economy for Prince William County taking a backseat to its neighbors, while at the same time, he wants to take credit for 800 fewer ESOL students, lower crime in PW Co. (because of the resolution), and almost 1000 deportations. Interestingly enough, the 287(g) program at the ADC came along BEFORE the resolution was voted on.
SPIN……SPIN…….SPIN……….He should be plenty dizzy by now.
The fight here is : the will of the people vs. the government and the elitists who run it. Plain and simple.
Will of the people has logic and common sense on its side. Elitist point of view has money for advertising, TV time for politicians like McCain and Obama, and activist US courts - but even the most activist courts don’t seem to be quite able to tell a county like PWC that they can’t help enforce US law and deport illegals.
“Why is it that people that are here illegally are entitled to more privledges that those that are here legally? ”
White liberal guilt + Conservative business owners’ profit margins + Black community hesitant to side with white viewpoint on this matter + Hispanic racism.
Moom-Howler thank you for your incisive obliteration of the desparate and flailing arguments of Rick Bentley Who Hasn’t Thoght This Through and the other mindless clones who’s monikers I can’t recall.
The “have it both ways” revelation puts the spank to the feeble argument that The GregNCorey Show should be credited for four years of crime statistics going down … Credit that should rightfully be afforded our nationally revered Police Chief Charlie Deane.
I just don’t understand why these two hapless clowns … The GregNCorey Show I mean … keeps on attacking and insulting a man in Chief Deane who has more courage and integrity in his little finger than the freak show and their dwindling clones all combined.
Because he doesn’t seem to care enough about safety and lawlessness in his County? Because he seems more concerned with meeting with Mexican officials than with the welfare of his own citizens? Because he’s more interested in lessening his workload than in getting criminals off the streets?
I see that the hate bunnies have hopped over to the WaPo this morning to contribute their usual vitriol to the article on Mr. Fernandez’s sign. One even went so far as to cite Corey’s statement about the decline in crime. What a stooge! I’d like to say that my fellow citizens were too smart to be taken in by the political spin, but , alas, it ain’t so…
Ever notice the hate bunnies and trolls never have anything new to say or anything meaningful to add to the conversation? These folks beat dead horses into pulp and then make soup out of them so they can crap out some more rot.
“White liberal guilt”
Because conservatives have been reconciled with the lord and they don’t have to worry about anything else but to accept the Lord to be saved? Sin-free people who have a cleared conscience?
“Conservative business owners’ profit margins”
Here you are half right. I think that this country sells the idea that there are no poor or ignorant people just a working class. When they cannot get jobs, they believe what they are told that illegal aliens are stealing their jobs. I have said it many times: Why US citizen have to compete for jobs that only uneducated illegal aliens want? It says something about us as a country. We are worried about the people of Iraq but not our own.
“Black community hesitant to side with white viewpoint on this matter”
Think about it: Black people are relegated to the bottom in this society, not by Hispanic but mostly by White people. Do you expect that they will side with White folks?
“Hispanic racism”
Meaning that they hate White people? A recent poll showed that White people still experience bias against black people. It is not about racism but about culture. The people bothering your daughter might be here legally. Bad manners and all that misbehavior cannot be attached only to illegal aliens.
kgotthardt,Censored bybvbl- There are “hate bunnies” as you call them on both sides of this issue. It is amazing how you hear the same thing coming out of both sides of the fence.
You wish,
“Kinda ironic, since MS-13 is sanctioned by the El Salvordian government (ask any PWC cop on the gang task force). They don’t come here to get a “better life”, they come here to destroy ours”
Bothe the MS 13 and Mara Salvatrucha started in LA and not in El Salvador. The Salvadorian government is dealing with a problem that was exported to El Salvador from our own streets. Most of those kids don’t even speak Spanish.
I met recently with a member of the Salvadorian cabinet and she told me a story of how she was kept hostage by a group sponsored by gangs. I don’t see how the Salvadorian government could sanction that. I know for a fact that there are task forces working together to deal with gang issues in both countries. I think that if the PWC police has evidence of this type of sponsorship, the US government would be addressing this issue differently.
I know that people don’t like to be called racist. MS 13 members are all Salvadorans. MS 13 member are here illegally. All Salvadorans here are gang members. You are grouping some people based on nationality. It is not racist but it is very close.
I agree with you KG, there are some folks who come here just to say: “you are using the nazi argument again so all your arguments are wrong”.
Its a handfull of cowards on PC’s claiming to be the million man army of the American Majority. A bluff network of blogs and social(ist) clubs who bully or bribe local politicians to bend to their will or be broken. Pity so many lesser men and women in office believe these ranting clowns. But the alliance of hate is breaking, I see Greg never mentions Help Save Herndon anymore, they have seperated themselves from the witch hunt. ForThe Cause, who worked hard to get manipulate the Herndon Council went nearly bankrupt backing Tancredo for President.
The fools can claim all the fake victories they want in cyberspace, but reality is quite diffrent. They have lost Fairfax and Arlington in thier plot to unite NOVA under a black Nativist banner, and they are loosing PWC. The National Elections may push them over the edge, a Second Alamo, a weeks worth of spicy news followed by the oblivion of fading memory.
Keep up the Heat…
I have an idea for all of those who don’t want to share anything constructive: Go to the AWCheney Blog. The poor thing keeps posting but no one is commenting. It is not that we don’t want dissenting voices here but…. bring something good to our table please!
“Social(ist)” actually I mean “Social Control” clubs
TH ,
I actually welcome Rick Bentley Who Has Not Thought Things Through because, unlike the Hate Bunnies his posts amount to more than little droppings of disinformation and bald prejudice.
Like Rick Bentley Who Has Not Thought Things Through , the Hate Bunnies only serve to hurt their own cause by serving as examples of the kind of people who support blindly bad policies even after they have proven to be bad. There are hateful people, and then there are the misinformed. Both are our allies.
Rick Bentley Who Has Not Thought Things Through hurts his own cause in various ways, not the least is carrying the water of The GregNCorey Show by attacking our revered Chief Charlie T. Deane. If you recall, when the The GregNCorey Show tried this laughably chicken-little-alarmist tactic in March, I think it was, they simultaneously became the laugh stocks of the County. Well, some people were pretty pissed off, and others were worried that some how these two clowns from out of state were going to get anywhere attacking the Chief, but those of us who’ve been around, those of us who know the man, and those of us who know Prince William County were never concerned. We were too amused by their political foolery and hubris to be angry. It was down right humorous because we saw them walking right into a buzz saw.
Thus, Rick Bentley Who Has Not Thought Things Through is useful to this blog, because he reminds readers of how arrogant and inane his leaders are. History will look back at the specious attack on Chief Deane during the spring of 2008 as the undoing of The GregNCorey Show. It was this boneheaded misplay that emboldened the Supervisors with a conscience to band together to REPEAL PROBABLE CAUSE, and stick a thumb in Corey Stewart’s eye. It was the beginning of the end for The GrenNCorey Show, and for one of the more embarrassing chapters in Prince William County history.
So, Rick Bentley Who Has Not Thought Things Through, I invite you to continue attacking Chief Deane. Please. Have a field day. I hope to God you aren’t using your real name. You’ve disgraced yourself enough times on this blog without becoming famously known as the fool who still thinks there is political gain in attacking Chief Charlie T. Deane.
Crime Rate is determined by who is actually making the numbers. Who determines what is a crime? During the days of slavery the crime rate was probably really low in the rural areas right? Except for the fact that over 10 million human beings were whipped and chained like animals. But besides this small discrepancy, the crime rate was wonderful…as long as you weren’t black.
Then came the Jim Crow laws…and the crime rate was also very low…because human rights crimes against blacks didn’t count…
Rick Bentley:
Haha Ricky. Citizens should ask ‘what is the law?’, but real Americans always ask a second question, ‘Is the law just?’.
Asking this second question is what gave birth to the American Revolution and every major improvement in our country since then. Read your history Ricky.
KGott wrote:
That was a pretty gross analogy, but it does aptly describe the intellectual scatology of the Hate Bunnies . I’m glad you didn’t take it to the stage where the slurp up their “soup” in order to regurgitate it again…. but if you did, The Lou Dobbs Comedy Hour and the F.A.I.R. affiliated websites are the places to slurp that dead horse soup! (Gospel Greg’s website used to be one too but no one goes there any more, other than for a good laugh.)
WHWN,
Great points!
Sadly Richard tends to disappear once you prove him wrong.
Rick,
I am trying to stick to topic here, why do you feel that Chief Deane doesn’t care enough about safety and lawlessness in this county? Why do you feel he doesn’t meet with his own citizens? Has anyone that we know asked him to meet with any of us? I know he did meet with HSM when invited. Why is he lessening his workload? Do you have any specifics on that one?
I feel your anger over your neighborhood is blurring your vision. What do you feel Chief Deane could do about all you criticize him for? How could he make it better? Most of us have a great deal of respect for the long time chief. I am curious why you don’t.
WhyHereWhyNow:
Sorry to burst your bubble WHWN. People of color know from experience what it’s like to have their rights violated by the police. It happens all the time right here in the good ole USA. It may not happen to you…that does not mean it doesn’t happen…it just means its not part of your reality. For those of us, who have experienced it, we understand that the police are always the enemy. This is not a sentiment imported from abroad. This sentiment is born because, like everything that lives, we love ourselves, even if we’re not white and told we’re supposed to consider ourselves inherently criminals, and we want to live free. We love ourselves too, and like everything that loves itself, we seek self preservation. Because we love ourselves, we are able to identify the enemy.
Watch the following video. Why would a CNN anchor admit on national television that it is common in the black community to have your Fourth Amendment Constitutional Rights violated just because you’re black? Why would he acknowledge it so flippantly?
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/11/23/racial.profiling/index.html#cnnSTCVideo
Read the WaPo and you’ll see that the overwhelming problems that upset people are the obvious visible blemishes to their neighborhoods such as overcrowding. That’s where it starts, and then people find that those doing the overcrowding are illegal and it incenses them even more. Then they notice ever increasing numbers of men standing on street corners and in parking lots. This is what they see, not any ethnic slant but the action of people. That’s how it started in PWC, and now it’s causing heads to turn in Fairfax and elsewhere. Soon those counties too will be forced to take action, and then you’ll have more people to blame on this blog.
Mackie, whatever the reasons that people of color tend not to trust the police, including past experiences of rights violations, my point is that Robert Duecaster and F.A.I.R. (with a big assist from The GregNCorey Show) have made community policing in Prince William County EVEN MORE DIFFICULT, and even more sadly, likely erased many of the remarkable strides our Police Department has made in recent years under the leadership of Chief Deane.
As Alanna points out, our crime rates have gone down consistently during years in which immigration of Hispanics and Asian Americans to this county have increased dramatically.
Of course we can dismiss “Elvis” who says that crime and skin color are necessarily related. But it is true that diverse population provide certain challenges for Police Departments because ethnic communities often do not trust law enforcement enough to participate in community policing … reporting crimes, aiding investigations, testifying for prosecutors, etc. The challenge is always there, and under Chief Deane, our department is meeting those challenges, hiring a diverse police force with multi-lingual skills, and training all officers to be respectful of citizens’ rights.
The problem has come about because The GregNCorey Show have created the perception that our police force is mandated to commit racial profiling as a matter of policy. This of course is not true. Chief Deane would never have allowed such a policy to go into effect.
We did, in March and April, have a policy in effect that bordered on racial profiling, and perhaps was unconstitutional. Now, that policy has been changed.
But the perception remains. In large part, the perception is living on because of irresponsible, inaccurate, and borderline racist assumptions made by our Board of County Supervisors, such as the implication that Hispanic people = crime and less Hispanic people = less crime.
By the way, did anyone notice that murders and rapes actually went up in a short-term fluctuation. Is The GregNCorey Show celebrating that?
Bottom line, The GregNCorey Show’s vindictive and shortsighted campaign for police enforcement of federal immigration laws has made matters worse in countless ways, and one of them is from a community policing perspective.
The GregNCorey Show and their indoctrinated hysterical clones have made this county less safe for immigrants and long time residents alike.
Mackie,
You might also want to consider being a female out after ‘curfew.’ I suppose that might be called driving while having internal genitalia. It does happen. It isn’t just a minority issue. Women who are out later at night than is customary are much more prone to get stopped than men, all things equal.
Facts and data are obfuscated because of factors like alcohol. It is hard to prove, just as driving black is hard to prove, so is driving female.
Second Alamo, after the piteous example Prince William County has set, I truly doubt that Fairfax County or any other locality with a television or internet access will want to follow in our footsteps. We are not just living an economic, governmental, and social Duecaster Disaster; we are living an internationally FAMOUS economic, governmental, and social Duecaster Disaster.
WhyHereWhyNow,
What world are you living in??? Everyone I know in our neighboring counties are not exactly enjoying the increased crime rates that have come with the illegal refugees from PWC. They WISH their governments had the guts to do the right thing. When are you going to figure out that the only folks giving PWC bad press is YOU?
“Bothe the MS 13 and Mara Salvatrucha started in LA and not in El Salvador. The Salvadorian government is dealing with a problem that was exported to El Salvador from our own streets. Most of those kids don’t even speak Spanish.
I met recently with a member of the Salvadorian cabinet and she told me a story of how she was kept hostage by a group sponsored by gangs. I don’t see how the Salvadorian government could sanction that. I know for a fact that there are task forces working together to deal with gang issues in both countries. I think that if the PWC police has evidence of this type of sponsorship, the US government would be addressing this issue differently.”
As for the comment about the El Salvadorian Gov’t not sanctioning MS-13 - please do your research. The PWC gang task force came and spoke to members of PWCS and has EVIDENCE that the leaders in El Salvador are sanctioning the action that MS-13 does. There is a photo of a high leader in El Salvador shaking hands and awarding a plaque to an MS-13 member for his “continued good work in the US”. MS-13 may have started in LA, but it is largely individuals from El Salvador who support illegal immigration to the US and gang activity.
You wish,
“High Leader”? a politician? A cabinet member? A priest?
Can we say that given the support that Stewart received from Fair or Greg, Our Chairman is a nativist or racist?
Gangs are a major problem for all citizens in El Salvador. I haven’t seen picture but I have lived there. I have been in contact with Gangs and believe me, it would be the end of any politician to get associated with gangs.
Read what you are saying “good work” How gang activity benefits any government? It is just moronic to say it (not calling you a moron, just the thought of it).
I don’t have a lot of respect for Deane because he has been resistant to enforcing the Rule of Law. His job from my perspective is to enforce the law and increase public safety. He spends an inordinate amount of time assuring Mexican Consulate Officials and anyone else who wants to see him in his shiny neat uniform that PWC really is an okay place to be illegal after all.
TH -
“Can we say that given the support that Stewart received from Fair or Greg, Our Chairman is a nativist or racist?”
Hardly a fair comparison - Is Stewart killing people, bringing drugs illegally into the country and supporting fire arms being brought into the country illegally?
Let’s see how the gang “good work” benefits the government - drug money sent back to the country and money sent back from the sell of illegal arms.
Like I said, contact the NOVA gang task force and they can show you AMPLE evidence of how the government in El Salvador supports and sanctions MS-13.
My one and only encounter with the illustrious Chief Deane was several years ago when I was driving onto the Manassas NVCC campus. He came up behind me and pulled me me over, waited a few minutes then came sauntering over to my car. I asked him what I had done wrong. He paused for a second, then pulled out a mug that said “mugged by Chief Charlie Dean” as a reward for wearing my seatbelt (the law had just been enacted prior to that encounter). What a stupid power trip and an abuse of power. I had no idea that I had an option not to stop, thought I was being stopped for some violation when I wasn’t even speeding. I still have that mug, and still think he is a jack***
and the icing on the cake was that I was late for my exam there.
WHWN,
Keep your eye on the paper. I bet anything that by this time next year one of our neighboring counties will have duplicated the actions taken by PWC. People are fed up!
Can you give me a hit, Second Alamo, as to which neighboring county would like to follow in the footsteps of Prince William County?
*** “hint” not “hit”
darn it.
Moon-howler:
That’s interesting. I’ve never heard of that. Why do you think women get pulled over more often than men after hours? Is it because male police officers like to hassle women late at night?
I’d say Loudon followed by Fairfax.
Let’s take a poll. Is “Slowpoke Rodriguez” a…
a) Self-hating Hispanic who revels in cartoon stereotypes
b) Sneering non-Hispanic who can’t disguise his racial intolerance
c) Gospel Greg himselflooking for someone to converse with now that his blog is dead, but too chicken-shit to admit he too has switched to Antibvbl
d) Gospel Greg Clone who has learned to dummy the inane made up “everyone I talk to” kind of evidence we’ve been dismissing now for years
or…
e) Hate Bunny too dumb to do much more than cut and paste old Gospel Greg arguments from this time last year
Emma, I think that’s awesome! LOL! It’s so corny, it’s hilarious! Sorry you didn’t think so. I would have laughed my ass off.
“That was a pretty gross analogy”
I know. I couldn’t help it, WHWN. I see you couldn’t help by continue with it : )
SecondAlamo, why do you think Loudoun County will follow PWC’s path? HSL or the residents of Sterling Park (if you’ve read the recent thread at TC) can’t seem to become organized into a group larger than 30 people. There’s also been a change in their Board which would make it seem less likely to get involved. The representative for the most blighted area is known as a crackpot even by many Republicans. The folks you seem to rely upon to make that change (HSL?) aren’t going to win many friends by calling the county staff a bunch of names and calling for everyone’s head. They appear unable to understand that staff’s hands are tied by Richmond and the Dillon Rule. Fairfax County prides itself on not being PWC so I doubt they’ll handle any potential problems the way they were handled here.
Thanks for the clue, Second Alamo. I’ll keep an eye on the papers for the Loudoun Duecaster Disaster followed by the Fairfax Duecaster Disaster. I’m sure you are more plugged in to such things than I am. In case I somehow miss the headline, though, can you do a post here as soon as you receive the Hate Bunny Email Alert? : )
That really upsets me that the hate bunnies and clones are attacking Chief Deane again for no better reason than that he has done an excellent job in numerous ways keeping this community safe, with crime numbers that have been on a general downward trend long before FAIR and Gospel Greg came to town (thanks for the reality check Alanna!).
WHWN, I vote for b, d, and e. But you should have added an “f” for Pathetic Weasel.
WHWN,
Is this one one of those tests which asks the question which one is NOT the right answer? In that case, I chose A. Now gimme my A!
Rick, I suppose you are entitled to your own opinion. I find almost the opposite to be true regarding Chief Deane.
Mackie, I think that it the pull overs at night are perceived as an easy way to get some DUI quotas. Why else would a woman be out at night late if not at a bar…mentality.
Regarding the ridiculous comments that the Salvadoran government sanctions gangs—first of all, the correct term is Salvadoran, not Salvadorian or El Salvadorian–gangs are despised by Salvadorans.
Gang roots are in the civil war. You had a whole generation of youths growing up with unspeakable violence and guns. So what happened when the war was over??? You had a whole generation of youths who knew only that. During the war, many fled to the U.S. to avoid being forced to fight on either side. Both sides perpetuated violence on the populace. Los Angeles was the destination of many, and they began to form gangs as protection against the black and Mexican gangs. But the root of it all was the civil war, of which the U.S. had a part.
Today you have gangbangers being deported from the U.S., but these guys sometimes don’t even speak Spanish, have few family ties, and are despised by local residents. The key to stopping this scourge is to prevent kids from joining in the first place, to help kids find alternatives ways to find success and acceptance.
That is, if you care about kids.
Firedancer,
You just describe my old job as a counselor at Glasgow Middle School. My job was to help these kids see they had a future, that each of us has something special to offer the world. We needed to offer them a “different” way of security and feeling of belonging than MS-13 ever could.
You wish,
“Let’s see how the gang “good work” benefits the government - drug money sent back to the country and money sent back from the sell of illegal arms”
Wouldn’t be easier to have the Colombian cartels building new infrastructure without the violence of Gangs?
I was asking you if you knew the stats and facts to support your statements. I don’t have to call the PWC police to give me a report. Easily, I can still call people in El Salvador who worked with the press, foreign aid non-for profits, American professor conducting research there, etc, etc.
I have worked there, you just have seen a picture of a “high Leader”. You would be the perfect citizen in North Korea. A picture is enough to convince you that everything is OK.
If kids join gangs to be accepted, then what does that say about the parent’s lack of acceptance? It all starts with the family, and having more kids than you can properly raise doesn’t help. Why is it that most gang members come from poverty? Is it also because they are involved in crimes that net big bucks that they feel they couldn’t earn legally? So between the poor family structure and the lack of income coupled with the perceived ‘coolness’ of being a gang member it’s impossible to prevent kids from joining. A great deal of those kids are crossing our border, and hence the increase in gang related crime. So don’t tell me that illegals are increasing crime in this country! Sure, there are plenty of good people also, but it only takes one violent criminal to offset the positive effects of 100 good people in my estimation.
Typo: “So don’t tell me illegals aren’t ………” oops
Emma is that true? That’s bizarre.
I saw Deane speak at an HSM meeting and was amused with how pompous he was. And less amused by how resistant he was to the idea of having to help us weed illegal aliens out of our community.
Imagine that! Chief Deane resistant to doing something illegal? Chief Deane resistant to violating civil rights? Tell me it isn’t so.
Chief Deane’s job is not to help ‘us’ weed out illegal aliens from out community.
It wasn’t his job then and it isn’t his job now, or any other local law enforcement officer. Can you imagine what an even mediocre civil rights lawyer would do with this one if Chief Deane complied with your wishes?
The Rule of Law violates noone’s civil rights - and will stand!
And Cheif Deane, you’ll notice, is getting with the program. I never saw so many Police cars visible as in recent months.
TheGregNCorey Show presents
The Brainwashed Gospel Greg Clone’s Guide to Immigration Philosophy
1) I know the “crackdown” is working because the bus stops have less “brown faces” and the schools have less ELS students
2) I know the “crackdown is working because Hispanic adults no longer feel welcome either, abandoning their mortgages and leaving vacant houses that cost us tax dollars and depreciate our houses (woopeee!)
3) I know public opinion is on our side because “everyone I talk to” is also a Brainwashed Gospel Greg Clone
4) I know Chief Deane supports the “crackdown” because “I never saw so many Police cars” (therefore there must be more Police cars, and Police cars = less “brown faces”)
5) I know Chief Deane doesn’t support the “crackdown” because he has foresight, integrity, and the capacity for independent thought … 3 telltale signs of a person who opposes the “crackdown” and does not support The GregNCorey Show
6) If crime statistics are down this month, the credit goes to The GregNCorey Show. If crime statistics are up next month, they don’t mean anything. Good policing has nothing to do with crime statistics, it’s all based on how many Hispanics The GregNCorey Show can “weed out” with their “crackdown” resolution.
7) I know all of this because if I allowed evidence, good police work, economics, the U.S. Constitution, or civil rights law seep into my brain, there would be no room for the mountain of precious talking points (see above) I have memorized without critical thought. Thank you GregNCorey Show! Your shortsighted and self-serving agenda is safe with me.
And Cheif Deane, you’ll notice, is getting with the program. I never saw so many Police cars visible as in recent months.
Are those two statements supposed to be somehow related?
I don’t care what you two think. Because, while the cause-and-effect between these may be arguable, these individual points are inarguable :
1. Illegal aliens are leaving PWC, and have left my neighborhood in particular
2. Most American citizens and legal residents who live in PWC are experiencing better quality of life and are happier with their neighborhoods than a year ago
3. The Rule of Law resolution is in effect and regarded by illegals as a sign they should leave PWC
4. After Rule of Law got so publicly approved, there were more visible police cars out than I’ve ever seen before - I assume some funding was approved for this
5. The Board of Supervisors understands how vehemently a majority of ther voting constituents feels about this - with the exception of Frank “Chicken Coop Man” Principi
And you two woofing plus 25 cents might get you a gumball
2. Most American citizens and legal residents who live in PWC are experiencing better quality of life and are happier with their neighborhoods than a year ago
Prove it. Statistics would probably show that the majority of houses and neighborhoods in PWC were unaffected by overcrowded houses. Ask the County to provide you with statistics that show what percentage of the housing stock in the county was overcrowded. Less than 5%? You’re extrapolating your experiences to fit the majority of residents’ and I don’t think you’re right.
5. The Board of Supervisors understands how vehemently a majority of ther voting constituents feels about this - with the exception of Frank “Chicken Coop Man” Principi
Hogwash. They understand that they were flooded by a large number of emails - generated by FAIR. I suppose if that fits your agenda, then you’d rather have PWC policy dictated by people who reside out-of-state than by actual PWC taxpaying residents.
As for more police cars. That proves absolutely nothing one way or the other as far as the Immigration Resolution goes.
Whatever the statistic was, it’s based on lies - some of those families would claim to be related, thereby skirting how many people they could cram in, even though the “family members” would change frequently. This happened next door to me, anecdotally … 10 people in a 2-bedroom townhouse, inspector said they were all related when they clearly aren’t. Again, if you speak Spanish you get to play by a different set of rules.
But they moved anyway. hooray!
RB, the County could give you the statistics based on complaints in relationship to the entire housing stock regardless of whether the complaints were valid or invalid…just the numbers called in or investigated in relationship to the entire housing stock.
The Rule of Law Resolution changed substantially between July 10, 2007 and July 3, 2008. The original document was fraught with civil rights violations. Why do you think it was changed so many times? The county didn’t want to get its pants sued off.
About this subject, I don’t see how you can possibly make this statement:
“he suggests there is a connection between a lower crime rate and the Immigration Resolution. Frankly, it’s laughable”
On what planet does detaining and/or deporting criminals not reduce the crime rate? So if you allow criminals right back in the community they aren’t going to commit another crime??? Where is the logic in that, am I missing something? I don’t agree with some of what Corey Stewart said but you would be hard pressed to convince me that detaining and/or deporting criminals doesn’t reduce the crime rate.
Yeah, Moon-howler, they refined it very well. I’m sure it’s going to withstand any legal challenges and it’s encouraging illegals to move elsewhere.
Censored, you look up the stats if you want. I remember the publicity some got crying that a disproportionate number were filed against Hispanics. Can I sue Hispanics for disproportionately cramming into houses and wrecking neighborhoods?
Rick, it is bizarre but true. I have wondered since what would have happened if I had refused to stop. It was a cheesy PR move, somewhat funny, but it always bothered me as to whether I could have blown him off. He made it look like I was being stopped for a violation.
Rick, I feel comfortable saying that fewer than 5% of houses were overcrowded.
Hello, the crime stats were going down for years prior to the resolution. How do you explain that?
Censored, I would explain the crime stats going down for years as good, solid police work. However, you didn’t come close to convincing me that detaining and/or deporting criminals doesn’t reduce the crime rate. There is absolutely no way you can say otherwise, can you? Are you seriously telling me that releasing a criminal’s back into our community doesn’t reduce the crime rate in any way? If so please tell me because I think it’s far from “laughable” as Alanna would say.
Hello,
The 287(g) program at the ADC was not part of the original resolution. No one that I am aware of has a problem with it. No one wants criminals in their neighborhood.
Rick,
I do hope you are aware of the fact that many people here on this blog worked tirelessly to get the resolution reworded into its final form. It isn’t perfect but life is full of compromises. There are people out there who shall go nameless, who would spin anything in to their own win.
Careful inspection of the ‘Resolution’ from its inception until final passage will show what I am saying to be true. The only way to change it was because funding. Do not think that went down without a fight.
Are you telling me that a criminal deported won’t come back? A criminal in detention is a criminal detained…illegally here or not. Good. If he/she is guilty and kept off the streets, fine.
Before you support Corey’s spin, consider that the same good police work that has made crime stats fall for years could be negated in some instances if people become fearful of the police.
Censored as I said before, I place no value in statistics. I do know that where I live - zip code 20109 - people are generally very happy about the exodus of illegals, and feel safer. And there are many logical reasons that they should.
Moon-howler the resolution is what it is. It tells illegals that if they drive a car here and get stopped, they might be deported, and all the bleeding heart ACLU lawyers and activist judges in the world can’t stop that. So I am very happy with it.
RB, I’m in zip 20112 and most people I know are more upset about the brouhaha created by HSM than they are overcrowded houses. There are isolated incidences of overcrowding or operating businesses illegally out of houses but immigration does not register high on the scale of subjects people are concerned about. It’s a subject that the right wingnuts will try to play up this fall so that they can take people’s minds off of the war, gas prices, utility prices, foreclosures, health care, the shrinking job market.
Censored, “the shrinking job market”, don’t you think that illegal labor contributes to the shrinking job market? Also, “health care”, don’t we indirectly pay for illegal immigrant health care causing it to go up (even by a little)? And “foreclosures”, didn’t illegal immigrants contribute their fair share of foreclosures at least in this county? My point is it seems as if people overlook the fact that illegal immigration plays a contributing factor to most of the issues you stated. Alone, maybe not so bad but the combined effects mount up.
Hello, in some cases I’m sure it does contribute to a tight job market. However, I grew up in a “one industry” area where immigration (the local pols went to Mexico to recruit labor) saved jobs. The labor shortage was such that the industry would have moved overseas in order to continue in business. The immigrants who move to that area enabled the mills to continue to operate and employ the locals as well as the immigrants.
I think the feds make out while some localities lose. IOW, your social security may be a bit safer because of what immigrants have paid in but will not recover, but you may pay more for schools locally. That is an issue that I feel the federal government is going to need to address.
I totally agree Censored, the feds make out while some localities lose which is why the feds don’t seem to do much about the problem. I think that is why your seeing more and more counties implement some kind of “resolution”.
RB,
Does a person get arrested for driving without a license? I don’t think so, at least not routinely. I don’t necessarily think driving without a license makes one eligible for deportation.
For the record, I have no problem with jailing criminals. I have