AntiBVBL

Come on, Texas is a stones throw back to the border. Point them south, and give them a good shove! They came here on their own they can leave on their own. US citizens are faced with hard times constantly and figure a way to recover, like moving. You think all truly needy people come from only south of the border? Try telling that to all the US citizens that live in the inner cities and extreme rural areas! Help the legal citizens first, and when all have been helped, then and only then turn your attention to the illegals if you so choose.

Second Alamo, I couldnt of said it better! It amazes me that we have hardworking LEGAL citizens working their butts off, Struggling with THEIR families, paying THEIR taxes, barely making ends meet and then our own Government denies them ANY assistance, meanwhile those same families have to watch and hear how the bleeding hearts of America want to offer all these services, handouts, assistance to individuals who are not American Citizens but rather law breakers.

WAKE UP AMERICA…believe it or not, we have Children in America born to legal Citizens that also go to bed at night hungry, Are they not worthy of your sympathy?
Do they not deserve the best for their family? Gimme a break!

Check this out for an explanation: http://youtube.com/watch?v=J3Xe1kX7Wsc

Plenty of empty homes in Mexico. Actually you could take a more positive spin and see this as an attempt to reunite families.

i honestly dont care about the families of the illegals going hungry. until we can feed all the poor LEGAL citizens then they dont hit my radar. sorry to be so “blunt” as KG would put it but that’s just common sense folks. this is our country first, theirs second. if they want handouts they should be taking them from their host country. the deserve no services other than a swift deportation back home. if they want to be citizens, then put in the paperwork and wait like my spouse did (which took forever but she did it). I’m not sympathethetic as I have a spouse that is a legal immigrant (and now citizen) that jumped through all the hoops. no sympathy whatsoever.

bubberella
Thanks for sharing this video. People can say what they want about racism in America but it is still alive and thriving. Yes, some would say put it in the past. It is history and we should not keep dwelling on it. How can we put it in the when it still exists? We have never learned from history and keep repeating the same thing over and over. The elite still run the country get richer by the day while the poor keep getting poorer.

On another note: When the people in Missouri and Louisiana needed food and help because our government was moving so slow and the people in that region were devastated, who brought food? The Mexican army came in with trucks and portable kitchens and fed them. They were there to help, to be part of the solution, to extend a hand of compassion.

Sorry, I meant to say Mississippi and Louisiana needed foood and help…..not Missouri

What an illuminating example Elena.

Do you think the anti-immigrant forces in Iowa are checking the immigration status of everyone who volunteers to help fight the flooding???

If the same thing happened in PWC, would the HSM people be out there with their red stickers, protesting undocumented who were working to stop the rising waters?

Marie

Divide and conquer has always been the way.

There’s a lot of truth in that video, bubberella. Too many poor people keep voting for the party that’s most likely NOT to represent their interests. Heehee…and the party supporters above are crying crocodile tears over the poor legal citizens whose assistance programs they’d love to take a torch to. Just Cause, Second Alamo, do you support a hike in the minimum wage?

Marie-I’m not trying to be heartless but the bottom line its insanity ( Doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result) and it will never change. Take the time to remember and reflect but my goodness stop comparing, things ARE DIFFERENT then what they were, maybe not to your standard..but it is different.

As far as racism..You get that from all sides of the spectrum, to say whites are the only racist people on this earth is truly an ignorant statement and I have read that in several pasts post from different people not to mention todays YOU TUBE VID..

Censored- YOU BET I SUPPORT a hike in the Minimum wage!

As far as racism..You get that from all sides of the spectrum, to say whites are the only racist people on this earth is truly an ignorant statement

I have to agree with this statement from Just Cause as we can find examples of bigotry from pretty much every group and I’ve been on the receiving end of bigotry from many of them.

The difference in our country though, is that it’s mostly whites who have the power to pass laws that are clearly bigoted, like the current Ethnic Cleansing sweeping our nation under the pretense of the Rule of Law (Jim Crow circa 2008). Remember this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pay3VltJSfw

I’m not saying illegal immigration doesn’t have problems. It does and we need to address those. But a pogrom is nothing less than a scorched earth solution.

So if you look back in our history, most examples of bigotry-in-law is by whites against all others. But as we become more multiracial, that is changing.

I have faith in the young people though. They’re growing up in a multiracial country. I think overall, they’re much less racist than their parents. However, some of the young people from the deep south that I’ve met seem to be lagging behind the rest in this respect.

I think most of the whole current Ethnic Cleansing is being pushed by the older generation. They’re scared to death their kids will be at the mercy of blacks and latinos. THIS is truly whats motivating Greg. And the kids of all races are bewildered at their parents concerns because they’re mostly not racist. With every new generation this will decrease. We’ve had a setback with the Ethnic Cleansing against latinos, the last hurrah…the last charge of Good Ole Boys if you will…but eventually the pendulum will swing back towards common sense. Especially in November, when latinos hand the Republicans a crushing and party-obliterating defeat across the board. A royal smackdown of epic proportions. A true campaign of ‘Shock and Awe’.

I’m already chilling the wine bottle…

Just Cause, I agree – a hike in the minimum wage is long overdue.

US citizens are faced with hard times constantly and figure a way to recover, like moving.

Second Alamo, of course, “moving” is what immigrants have done to solve their problems. Some US citizens could take a lesson in that respect. Some areas are never going to have much of an economic recovery because they’re too remote geographically, their industry is obsolete (or exported overseas), their citizens aren’t educated in the right fields, they’re viewed as too backwards, and so on. What do you do with the residents of these towns? Tell them to move? Or support them? Or a combination?

On the surface, requiring rental permits seems a way of controlling numbers of people in houses – or knowing who’s in rental housing. (I’m not sure that’s any of the government’s business.) But most jurisdictions allow more “family members” to occupy a house than they do unrelated individuals. There’s that sticky wicket about the definition of family. I don’t see how anyone can justify having kiddos live out of cars or in tents because of their parents’ immigration status.

I suppose the one positive to come from localities and states adopting a wide variety of often looney ordinances is that it will force the federal government’s hand and it will have to tackle immigration policy. The advocators of these ordinances probably won’t like the result.

Just Cause-I would like to know how old you are? If you did not grow up in the 50’s then I do not think you can make a comparison between then and now and how things have changed. I have not seen many changes in attitudes about people who are different, have different skin tones, languages, etc. If you did grow up during the same era as I did then our views are just different. The recent events in this country have given me much heartburn. It is really hard to overlook how people have been treated and continue to be treated. In addtion, I know bigotry and racism comes from all sides of the spectrum and I did not mean to give the impression that only whites are guilty.

As Mackie said “The difference in our country though, is that it’s mostly whites who have the power to pass laws that are clearly bigoted, like the current Ethnic Cleansing sweeping our nation under the pretense of the Rule of Law (Jim Crow circa 2008).”

I do remain optimistically hopeful that the youth of this country who have grown up in diverse communities will turn the tide.

Marie- What is your obsession with the past?? My god, things ARE Different today than they were in the 50’s the 60’s and the 70’s and in my opinion FOR THE BETTER.

I am 42 years old born 1965, have 3 siblings ALL RAISED in the 50’s then there is me.. Both Sisters married black men and have children, In the:

The 70’s: I was teased relentless in school and never noticed color till my Brother in law picked me up from Elementary school one day and several kids made it their point to “teach” me the difference in color and NOT ALL THE KIDS WERE WHITE, there were Several black girls that taught me a lesson as well ( and there was NO SUCH THING AS ZERO TOLERANCE in school back then so you DEALT WITH IT)

The 80’s: The focus on interacial couples was not as harsh as the 70’s. People seem to be more tolerant EXCEPT for Parents and teachers of BOTH RACES. OH and I also want to mention that the school told my bi racial neice she had to CHOSE to be EITHER white or black..She couldnt BE BOTH…My Sister HAD to check a box on a school form for one or the other!

90’s: the “in” thing was interacial dating, so it wasnt considered as much as a big deal then, however you still had a few here and there that didnt like it but NOTHING compared to the 70’s

Today: Interacial dating is common as well as Bi racial children entering in schools.

SO DONT TELL ME time HASNT CHANGED FOR THE BETTER..This is just a small list..

Now stop your history bantering and focus on what you can do to be more productive in society other than being a moderator of hate!!!

Just Cause,

Are you blind to the Ethnic Cleansing engulfing the latino community? Blacks have never been able to challenge white numerical majority in this country. Latinos can because there are so many willing to come from right next door, latin america. THIS is what Greg is trying to stop. Immigration law is his tool, not his goal.

Just Cause-I do not have an obsession with the past. I do not appreciate your tone and your shouts at me. I was just stating my opinion. You have your view and I have mine. If you look at what is happening to the latino community then some things have not changed. I have to agree with Mackie.

“Ethnic cleansing”, yeah right. It’s a virual holocaust. Come on, grow up.

Amnesty is dead and increasingly people are starting to realize that yes we can hold our government officials responsible for the rule of law.

Marie- Sometimes in debates, people will have a tendency to get a lil “loud” and how your getting a “tone” from words..kinda mystifys me on that…but when you and Mackie start throwing in words like..racism and ethnic cleansing and you stsrt reciting history..well people like me get annoyed…If you are willing to “dish” it out, then be prepared to “take it”..If not, then you possibly need to find another social group.

Nutbags…

Rick Bentley,

“Ethnic cleansing”, yeah right. It’s a virual holocaust. Come on, grow up.

If your best response is “Come on, grow up.” then you’re bankrupt on the issues.

Amnesty is dead and increasingly people are starting to realize that yes we can hold our government officials responsible for the rule of law.

Not really. It’s just that the fear and hate mongering has reached such high proportions that people are ready to ask for draconian laws that move us closer to a police state, and invariably lead to a bloodless Ethnic Cleansing. It’s not the law people care about. They care about getting rid of these foreigners by any means necessary.

Don’t you remember the threats of violence at the BOCS meeting in October. The co-author of the resolution himself, Robert Duecaster, threatened to use violence. I hardly think such sentiment has to do with respect for the law. The law is just the convenient tool. It is not the goal. You are saying it is the goal. You are wrong.

Mackie, I would hardly call any anti-ILLEGAL immigrantion resolution “Ethnic Cleansing”. What’s odd is that I don’t really agree with most of what you wright but I do find some of your ideas interesting. Then we get to something like this (Ethnic Cleansing) and it kind of throws me off a bit. You seem to be a pretty smart person but then when I read you using this term over and over it somewhat lessens my view of you. I wish you would take a step back for a moment and think about it before just making your mind up on something like that.

I can’t remember where I saw it but I did see a list of all of the people so far that have been reported to ICE (Ill see if I can dig it up again). Not every one on that list is Hispanic, there are people from the middle east, people from Asia, from all over. Are most Hispanic, yes, but that’s because of the vast majority of illegal immigrants here are Hispanic.

Ethnic cleansing doens’t have to be extermination in the literal sense, such as what happened in Bosnia in the 90’s or in Europe in the late 30’s and 40’s. It can simply be removing a particular ‘element’ or ‘ilk’ from the region– Sort of the modern day ‘Be out of town by sunset’ mentality.

There are plenty of examples in our national history. The Mormon migration to Utah, Japanese interment, and the Trail of Tears come to mind right off the bat. In each and every case, the people doing the cleansing justified each and every move. They clearly thought they were right.

Retrospectively, historical judgement has been extremely harsh when evaluating all three of those examples. (and there are hundreds more) How will history judge what is happening in our community? Will your posterity feel shame because of your behavior or will they stand up proud?

hello,

Moon-howler said above what I would have said.

Just Cause – Well, now I am a nutbag??? I have been called worse. You know come to think of it I am obsessed with inequality, bigotry, racism, discrimination, and injustice to name a few.

For the record my daughter is older than you and so are my two sons. They have no clue what life was like in the 50’s and the struggles of the minorities then. They do know the history but unless you have lived through it then you really have no idea. I need not apologize for my belief that history must never repeat itself. Someone has to remember and someone has be the conscience. We must ensure that people being hated because they are a different color, hated because speak a different language, hated because they have different views, hated because they have different faiths will never lead to the actions of the past.

I have to agree with Moon Howler. How will history judge what is not only happening in our community, but what is happening across this nation?

“How will history judge what is not only happening in our community, but what is happening across this nation?”

Who cares? Gosh you guys are drama to the max. blah, blah, blah
Here’s some reality for you. How about we just let the illegals keep coming in…we’ll open up ALL of the borders, disregard ANY immigration laws in place, and let the whole country go to hell in a handbasket. Forget about law and order…forget about our American flag. Who cares about the Latino gangs….we’ll just let them roam around – continuing to take over towns across the country….Then we won’t have a nation to give a hoot about. Wouldn’t that make you happy!
I could CARE LESS about what other countries think of us. Do you REALLY think they give a crap about us? I would like history to judge us as a nation that stood strong against lawlessness and a nation that closed ALL of it’s borders for five/ten years until this enitre mess could be cleaned up! Oh my, I’m such a meany!

Wow! I think stw is Greg himself.

Wow, Mackie – no argument? Just an accusation. Typical.

stw,

I have heard no one say:’ just let the illegals keepo coming in.’ I don’t know anyone on this blog who has suggested that we have open borders.

You had better care about what other countries think of us unless you want to go around being the world bully for the rest of time. When people hate you, they try to kill you. You know what that means. You have to go to war to whip their asses. War is expensive. We are still paying for WWI for God’s sake.

Where does it end? I believe in peace and prosperity myself. If I can make people want to cooperate raher than kill me, I am a happy camper.

Oh and one last thing, we get most of our oil from Mexico and Canada. Maybe we should care more what they think about us also.

“When people hate you, they try to kill you.”
A majority of other countries already hate us and would like to see us fail – they are just lying in wait for our ruin. We are the laughing stock of the world. China is buying up all of our debt. We’re being charged out the butt for oil. Bottom line, the world is sucking us dry. We’re not only being destroyed from the outside, but from within. The least we can do is take care of ourselves for awhile, and stop trying to save the entire world. That doesn’t make us bullies, that just keeps us from being the world’s largest chump.

stw’s outlook is even more grim than mine…and that’s saying something. I think I’m gonna just end it all and go jump off the occoquan bridge. Do you think it’s high enough? It would suck if I went to all the trouble and wrote the farewell letter, and then all I did was end up getting wet.

As the author of this post Elena, I’m shocked that you would have so much sympathy for people who MAY become homeless without investigating those American citizens who already are. Consider the following link to the National Alliance To End Homelessness:

http://www.endhomelessness.org/section/policy/focusareas/families

Excerpt from the site:
“Fact Checker: Family Homelessness
Every year 600,000 families with 1.35 million children experience homelessness in the United States, making up about 50 percent of the homeless population over the course of the year.”

1.35 MILLION CHILDREN! and you are concerned about the possibility that people who came to this country illegally MIGHT go homeless? Are you not shocked? I certainly was when I read that. Those people who MIGHT go homeless can always go back to their own country…our people are in their own country suffering as their fellow citizens concern themselves more over the plight of those who do not belong here.

How many of these families were unable to get housing assistance because illegal aliens got into that housing first with stolen identities or anchor babies (check out HUD stats)? You should be ashamed.

Check out another area of the site and you find this:

“Veterans
Convergent sources estimate that between 23 and 40 percent of homeless adults are veterans. The U.S. Department of Veterans estimates that as many as 200,000 homeless people are veterans, and that over the course of the year, approximately 336,627 veterans experience homelessness.”

Combine the two group alone (families and veterans) and they represent 73-90% of the homeless in this country! Have you ever once expressed concern for these people, or is this political football of illegal immigration far more important to you than what is happening in our own country to our own people? What incredible hypocrisy!

My guess is that Elena doesn’t want ‘our own people ‘ to be homeless either. But then again, that isn’t what this thread is about.

Please, awcheney, explain why Elena is guilty of hypocrisy because she creates a thread on homelessness that stems from the actions of a local government regarding illegal immigrants. Is she favoring one group over another?

AWCheney,
People do not qualify for HUD housing because of what you call “anchor” babies. The parent must be eligible. Do you not know that agencies who determine eligibility for public assistance programs including housing have ways to check status and social security numbers? Public assistance agencies in Virginia have access to VEC, DMV, SS and Homeland Security to check anyone who applies and EVERYONE who applies is checked against various databases. People are not getting HUD subsidized housing because of the sheer numbers on the waiting lists and the lack of federal funding to grant subsidized housing to everyone who needs it. Undocumented immigrants are not in line to get subsidized housing. I worked in the system for 28 years. Please get the facts.

I expect, Marie, that those 28 years were spent in the system prior to the eight years of the Bush Administration when enforcement of immigration laws was not particularly at the top of the government’s, or the Administration’s, agenda. Then there’s the matter of stolen and counterfeit social security numbers…don’t be so naive as to assume that these people are unable to “qualify” for Section 8 Housing.

Here’s one example of how they “jump” the lists:
http://www.doityourself.com/stry/section-8-housing
“A report in the LA Times on Sunday Oct. 21 reported that Rudolf Montiel, new head of the Housing Authority of the City of Los Angeles found a lot of corruption and fraud. Apparently, Section 8 vouchers were sold on the black market, and this action allowed hundreds of illegal immigrants to jump to the top of a 10 year waiting list over others who are poor or disabled. Montiel has been working for over 3 years to fight the corruption and fraud, and has been having limited success.”

And here’s another example of illegal aliens in government subsidized housing…only in this case they finally had it taken away from them:

http://www.telluridegateway.com/articles/2007/01/26/news/news01.txt
So it goes at apartment complexes in Mountain Village and Telluride, where illegal immigrants — many from Mexico and Central America — live in subsidized or government-built homes or receive state aid to help pay the rent.

And this, Marie, flies in the face of your statement that “People do not qualify for HUD housing because of what you call “anchor” babies:”

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F5071EF8345B0C718DDDAF0894DE484D81
HOUSE VOTES TO SOFTEN CURB ON ALIEN HOUSING
By LINDA GREENHOUSE, SPECIAL TO THE NEW YORK TIMES (NYT); National Desk
June 12, 1986, Thursday
Late City Final Edition, Section A, Page 25, Column 1, 661 words

[ DISPLAYING ABSTRACT ]The House of Representatives voted unanimously today to permit illegal alien families to continue to live in public housing projects if at least one member of the family was an American citizen or legal resident. The vote came on the fourth day of House debate on a major housing …

Obviously, it’s been going on for a long time.

These are only a few examples of illegal aliens acquiring government subsidized housing, Marie…I expect that more than a 15 minute search would come up with a LOT more.

Marie, I’ve responded to your comment with a number of links which means, according to the rules here, it is awaiting moderation (no problem Alanna). I did do a small amount of research and I assure you that there is far more than the little that I provided in that comment.

Another thread and once again, the “ethnic cleansing” theory is being promoted by Mackie and others.

Let me ask this..

Is it “ethnic cleansing” for a Country to demand that peoples within its borders are lawful citizens, residents or visitors? Does a Nation get to choose who stays within its borders or do individuals of other countries who come here get to make that choice?

If Mackie and the others say yes to the first and individuals to the second, than what is the alternative? Open borders to anyone who wants to enter? Do we as a nation have the right to tell people,”sorry”, you can’t come in and you cannot stay?

Study after study shows that the greatest number of illegal immigrants are Hispanic. But that is because we share a land border with Latin America and their economic and political situations are vastly different than our Country’s. So it would make logical sense that the policies affect more people of Hispanic decent than others – because the facts are that there are more of them here. This does not make our immigration policies “racist” or promote “ethnic cleansing” of one particular people. If we shared a land boder with Gaza, (another unsuitable economical and political area) we’d have more immigrants from that area, would that make our policies racist because the sheer numbers were of someone else?

I am tired of the “ethnic cleansing” analogy. On the last thread when this theory was beaten down, they switched to “terrorism protection” as the new reason for 100% amnesty. Better try that on this thread now.

Is it “ethnic cleansing” that when someone in this Country illegally comes in contact with law enforcement that their status is an issue? What’s wrong with a government knowing who is in this Country? According to the “terrorism protection” theory put forth by Mackie and others, this is why we need to give 100% amnesty, so the government knows who is here. So what’s wrong with the government finding out who is here in this manner? Can’t have it both ways.

Is it “ethnic cleansing” to want people who are arrested to have their immigration status checked? Why would anyone what to take some other country’s criminals?

It’s only “ethnic cleansing” if they’re Latino – the new protected class of bleeding-heart left-wingers. You or I are expected to posess valid identification, pay all taxes, drive with drivers liscence, etc. If we break a law and go to jail, we will be held accountable and John McCain and Ted Kennedy will shed no tears.

Because we’re not unnaturally lowering wages in the US – so we’re of less importance. Got to keep those wages down. If people are having trouble making ends meet – they should just pile multiple families into single-family homes, problem solved.

What do you mean Elena? These people are not here legally! A vast number of them are taking the very entitlements, and not just subsidized housing, meant for our poor and working poor! Many more are taking the unskilled and marginally skilled jobs that could, and would, go to many of these American poor! The resources that these illegal aliens are devouring, such as our tax dollars, could go to providing greater assistance to our own poor! It obviously is meaningless to you that their presence is exacerbating numerous of our critical problems in our own country, and of our own citizens beyond those created by the criminal illegal aliens and the gang members who followed or were brought by them here. You have so much compassion for what MIGHT happen to people who have absolutely no legal right to be in this country, yet your logic is that “the ordinance says NOTHING about assistance to people, no one is asking for a handout to rent or buy a home in this Texas town.”

You have so much concern for these people, let me ask you…have you EVER put yourself out for our homeless in any way? Have you EVER questioned why there are so many homeless in our country? Have you EVER once concerned yourself about even one of those 1.35 million children who are living in the streets or in dangerous shelters? How is it that the POSSIBILITY that some illegal alien children who MAY become impacted is so much more important than the reality of 1.35 million children who already are? From what you said it sounds very much like the difference is that the 1.35 children are poorer than the illegal aliens, and therefore less worthy of having a roof over their heads…and perhaps they became that way because an illegal alien took the job that one of those parents had because they were willing to accept so much less because they can live so much cheaper. My God, values have certainly become skewed!

I hope this clarifies things for YOU, Elena!

Mackie -
I guess your “jump” was a failure, eh?

awcheney,

How about no homeless children? You have gone on and on about why illegal immigrants shouldn’t be able to have a roof over their heads. Do you want them living in shanty towns in tents? That doesn’t seem like a good alternative to me. Let’s assume they don’t go home. Let’s assume that the worst living conditions in the world in the USA are better than the best living conditions in their native country.

Let’s stick to topic. My eyes glazed over. You obviously think that ordinance was a good one. Maybe you can interest our BOCS into passing it here. They seem to be open to just about anything that purges our area of ‘ILLEGALS.’

This ordinance is identical to the proposal made by the ILRI in May of last year when Mike Hethmon addressed a meeting of HSM. It is clear that FAIR has getting involved all over the country, or at least where they can find those willing to buy into their particular agenda.

junkyard dog, 19. June 2008, 11:30 post

What do you mean stick to topic? I think AWCheney was…a point was made and now we get posts that ” want to talk later” and “lets stick to topic” ..I want a response from one of the “bleeding hearts”.

Elena, Section 8 Housing happens to be only ONE point of many that I made. If you can’t recognize that, then you are indeed the pseudo-liberal of convenient compassion that I was beginning to think you might be.

It would seem, Just Cause, that our people of EVERY economic strata, including our poorest, are to take a back seat to the needs and desires of the illegal aliens…with the exception of those who economically benefit from their presence, of course.

AWCheney said it all.

Yes, Elena I believe “blended” families should not be eligible for Section 8. Point blank. We cannot, should not continue to ignore illegal behavior and expect less of it rather than much more.

And don’t doubt that a boatload of illegal aliens are living in “blended” Section 8 housing on taxpayer dollars, and many are either faking a relationship to someone ‘eligible” for Section 8, or not even faking it. There should be a stipulation that if you live ON TAXPAYER MONEY on Section 8 you can’t house illegal aliens. I don’t think there is – if there is one, it isn’t enforced by any mechanism. And there needs to be. When we as Americans collectively agreed to set up a safety net for our people in this form, it was never the intent to set out a welcome mat for other nations’ lower classes.

This is part of the hidden cost of illegal immigration, shouldered by middle-class Americans, and bankrupting local and State budgets, reducing the social safety net and standard of living for American citizens. But we don’t all work for peanut wages, cram in 15 to a house, and learn to love it so as AWCheney notes we are of less import.

I’m mad at the employees

I’m mad at the illegal aliens who come here and lower our wages

I’m spitting furious at our politicians who don’t even attempt to uphold their oaths of office, to uphold US law

I’m even angrier at the ones like Bush, McCain, Obama who propogate false information and struggle with all their might to push Amnesty before the American people realize they’re being presented with false choices and fatalistic views of the future

I’m mad at the elites in Mexico and the US who laugh all the way to the bank

And I’m mad too at people like you Elena who raise such a hue and cry about the basic concept of enforcing the law and providing disincentive for criminal behavior

Rick,

Who would you say provides accurate information about immigration matters?

What do you consider amnesty? I always thought amnesty was just forgiveness, no questions asked. (as in return your library books and there will be no fines)

You sure are angry at a lot of people. I have never known Elena to support criminal behavior of any kind. In fact she has always been downright tough on crime.

AWCheny- I am curious to know how you explain the rates of poverty for US citizens. Setting aside the rates of poverty/homelessness/hunger of immigrants and their children, how do you interpret the rates of the aforementioned in the native born population? Do you believe that the causes of epidemic proporations of homelessness and hunger is caused soley by immigrants, or do you have any other explanations or contributing factors?

Valley Girl, only you people have claimed that we assume all problems in our country are created by illegal aliens…and I have NOT seen or heard ONE person say that. There is no question that illegal aliens have EXACERBATED many problems, but all you people can do is put a spin on things.

I ask before, has ONE of you ever done anything to actually address the problems of our own poor in this country (like maybe going to the homeless shelter to hire an able-bodied family man there, rather than to a 7-11 to pick up an illegal day laborer)? Has ONE of you ever put yourself on the front lines of any of your issues, beyond perhaps saying a few words, either civil or insulting, before the Board of Supervisors or tossed a few dollars into a “political bucket?” Has ONE of you ever opened your home to a homeless person and tried to help them get a fresh start in life? All I see here is people playing lip service to compassion for people that they wouldn’t allow on their property unless it was to “do the work Americans won’t do” at the slave wages that they’re willing to offer.

I’ve had enough of this hypocrisy and pseudo-liberalism for one life-time. It’s people like you that give me insight into what a friend of mine from my past, Lori Jackson (who tragically died while I was overseas for a while), from such pseudo-liberals who talked a good game and then always left her hanging out there to dry when it came right down to it. For the unenlightened among you, or the new-comers to our area, she was a passionate activist in our area who had marched with Martin Luther King and counted Ralph Abernathy as one of her close friends. Here we were, me the Reagan conservative and she the civil rights activist, and we had an incredible amount of common ground and mutual respect. If you people believe that you are capable of achieving similar common ground in this issue, you are totally deluding yourselves. You don’t have the chops!

Yeah I’m angry. And enjoy venting my anger.

Seems to me Mark Kerkorian’s organization The Center for Immigration Studies is about the only one attempting to compile objective info on the cost of illegal immigration. Everyone else swallows the kool-aid and goes along with the facade that minimizes costs – mainly by not measuring benefits associated with the children of the illegal immigrants themselves.

What do I consider Amnesty? Anything that rewards people in any way for breaking in here in the first place. It’s that simple. Rewarding them in any permanent way for coming here illegally can only increase chances of more and more waves coming in. Note that it’s not really possible to “seal the border” as Bush and McCain would have you believe. The only way to stop illegal immigration at all is to implement and enforce laws that provide disincentive for doing it. It’ll never happen if the right keeps bamboozling people (with the motivation of lowering American wages) and the left does also (with the motivation of cultivating Latino votes) each using the notion of Christian Charity as a front.

Elena I don’t there is anything inhumane or fiscally irresponsible about enforcing the law, or about anything that’s happened in PWC.

Rick Bentley, the Center for Immigration Studies = FAIR, hardly an objective group.

“only you people” “you people” “has ONE of you ever” “Has ONE of you ever” “Has ONE of you ever” “All I see here is people playing lip service to compassion for people that they wouldn’t allow on their property unless it was to “do the work Americans won’t do” at the slave wages that they’re willing to offer.” “I’ve had enough of this hypocrisy and pseudo-liberalism for one life-time.” “It’s people like you” “If you people believe that you are capable of achieving similar common ground in this issue, you are totally deluding yourselves. You don’t have the chops!”

AWCheney, and we’re supposed to take you seriously?

I don’t care if you do or not Censored…the people who know me do.

Oh yes…and the people I respect do!

I’m fine with it too, and it makes it easier for me to accept that knowing that the majority of voting citizens in PWC are closer to my position that yours, and the Rule of Law will stand, and it can stand up to any scrutiny that any activist judge cares to hold it to, and in fact it is helping to convince illegal aliens to leave my area (rather dramatically).

Does it create or contribute to a climate of intolerance, as some say? Hardly. It might REFLECT some of the extreme anger that many residents feel, but it certainly doesn’t create a climate change.

Obama and McCain can fiddle while Rome burns, but here in PWC we have found a solution, party orthidoxies be damned.

If you think I’m angry now, you should have seen me a year ago, when the illegal kid next door prevented my wife from feeling she could relax in her own bedroom (noise), and started leering at our daughter.

Man, that is a lot of you people this and you people thats! I would say that is sure lumping all the people here into one big do-nothing bunch.

I would say, awcheney, that you simply do not have the right to say that about the posters here because you do not know. That is a mighty broad assumption you are making and you know what happens when you assume.

The “people” to whom I refer know exactly who it is that I’m talking about.

If you think I’m angry now, you should have seen me a year ago, when the illegal kid next door prevented my wife from feeling she could relax in her own bedroom (noise), and started leering at our daughter.

What does this have to do with immigration law? Would you be any less angry if this person had been legal. In fact, I”m curious if you actually knew for a fact, the person was undocumented (here’s a hint: English proficiency don’t mean squat)

If this is why you support the resolution then you have violated certain basic precepts of our justice system. That the punishment should fit the crime. Anything else is cruel and unusual punishment.
And that people be judged as individuals, not as whole communities.

Hey y’all, I figured out how we got ourselves into such a mess:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS2WZk_Ku_0

elp Save Manassas has been busy at day laborer sites in Prince William County over the past few days, spending time in Woodbridge this past weekend, and then this morning at the 7-Elevens in Yorkshire on Old Centreville Road and Coverstone Drive today. We’ve documented quite a few people picking up day laborers, the evidence of which should be of great interest to federal authorities, and reported some unlawful behavior to the Prince William County Police which is increasingly regarding the Crime Prevention Team as a valuable partner. When county police show up in response to a public urination or drinking in public complaint as they did today, it is amazing the extent to which the day laborers quickly clear out.

At the end of the team’s shift at the Coverstone 7-Eleven, the business owner came out to have a chat with us and thanked us profusely for coming to help. He said he had been begging the Prince William County Police Department for help for many months, and about all he ever got was a squad car parked in his lot for a few days which did little to solve the problem once the day laborers figured out that the officer wasn’t going to do anything about them. He’s called the property owner of the adjacent vacant property where the day laborers congregate after he runs them off his property at least a hundred times, and nothing has happened. He told us that the only thing that seems to have made any impact so far is when citizens show up to document Americans hiring day laborers which significantly seems to the activity. He would really like to see a lot more of Help Save Manassas out in front of his store, in the hopes that it will discourage so many illegal aliens from co-opting his place of business as their spot to hang out and trash the place.

The presence of day laborers has significantly harmed his business, and dramatically damaged the profitability of this store. In his opinion, for every day laborer that thinks he’s entitled to hang out in front of or next to his store, it reduces his customer base by fifty people, which sometimes translates into a daily net loss on his daily business operations. The owner of the store is himself an immigrant, a legal one, who isn’t too impressed with the notion that illegal aliens can destroy his business in the name of diversity and compassion towards immigrants. They seem to have no compassion whatsoever for this non-hispanic immigrant, who involuntarily shoulders the burdens that these day laborers impose. This business owner is enormously frustrated that local law enforcement will not enforce laws prohibiting the employment of illegal aliens or more vigorously enforce ordinances against loitering and tresspassing, and welcomes whatever help the Crime Prevention Team of Help Save Manassas can provide.

I can’t blame him one bit. This morning we had some interesting fellows hanging out and adding to the diversity in the area, some adorned with tatoos on their necks and faces that seemed to be gang-related. Who would want to run a business where customers have to run a gauntlet of these types in order to come into your store? Probably not many

# AnonGuy said on 18 Jun 2008 at 1:25 pm:

Did the usual supects show up to “observe” HSM? Was Eric “I wanna be a skinny Michael Moore” there? Did John “I love Che’ ” on the scene? I wonder if Annable “Bobble-Head” Park will show up to do an after-action interview. You know, the one where she asks a bunch of leading questions and gets responses like this:

“HSM showed up in full military tactical gear and started shouting insults to us, telling us to quit pissing on walls and being drunk at 7:30 am. Then Greg unleashed four german shepard attack-dogs and threw tear-gas grenades, while Maureen Wood hit us with a water cannon. It was all very tramatic. I have to feed my kids, which is why I come here and drink beer in the morning. Breakfast is the most important meal of the day.”

and then there is a BS text overlay that says:

“HSM denies the accusations, but the details have been confirmed with PWCPD”

AnonGuy is none other than anon AKA Leaving Point of Woods AKA the idiot who likes to dominate every discussion here. I told you guys before anon was a liar and a fraud. The proof is in the two posts above.

OneForTheRoad,

Nice quote. A direct lift from Greg’s BVBL blog. I read this blog entry with much interest.

How pathetic that the HSM should choose to deny hardworking men a chance to put food on the table. Is this now the definition of patriot?

You guys actually think you can stand in the way of the unconquerable laws of supply and demand. Ha! Our country was built on benefiting from supply and demand. Read your history. Every time we try to stand in the way of supply and demand, we fall down on our faces and suffer until we learn our lesson. For example, the prohibition laws, speed limits that are unrealistic, the idiotic war on drugs, denying visas to immigrants and then calling them ‘illegal’ when we are the ones who made them so.

Keep fighting the law of supply and demand. Keep spending your resources. Keep wearing yourselves out and slowly breaking your morale. If this is a war of attrition, you will lose because reality is not on your side, bubba.

Futility is on your side.

It’s a poor ally to have.

We’ve documented quite a few people picking up day laborers, the evidence of which should be of great interest to federal authorities

I doubt it. They’ve got bigger fish to fry/catch. Are you saving PWC money only to make the feds waste it responding to small potatoes? You’re probably wasting PWC dollars as well on your vigilante tactics in harrassing the day laborers because of the resulting police calls. I imagine regular shoppers are not going to want to go to the 7-11 while you guys are hanging around either. They’re not going to want to get in the middle of your camera weilding lunacy. Although kudos to you for picking up the trash!

Mackie, 20. June 2008, 12:50
“How pathetic that the HSM should choose to deny hardworking men a chance to put food on the table. Is this now the definition of patriot?”

Absolutely!
Mackie – you take the cake! And you, sir, are pathetic! So, the owner of 7-11 is grateful, and you’re upset because HSM is helping him out? Oh, that’s right, you all are only interested in helping the illegals in the county – to hell with the hard working LEGAL businessman!
What a crock!

Hey, I’m on you guys side. Why are you attacking me?

But if you want me to play devil’s advocate here’s some other posts that you can respond to:

# Rick Bentley said on 18 Jun 2008 at 2:00 pm:

Those guys are out there every day. it’s sad to hear that the store owner can’t get the police to help. I thought loitering was illegal. At least it is for non-Hispanics.

# Wine Please said on 18 Jun 2008 at 5:17 pm:

the 7-11 owner is right about losing business due to the loiterers…when I first moved to PWC, I lived in the Carlisle Station apts across 234…and used to go to that 7-11 all the time because it was close. Then as time went on, and more and more men loitered about, I stopped going there because I didn’t appreciate the obnoxious and lewd comments shouted at me as I walked up and entered the store.
Interesting that when the resolution was passed, the loitering around the nearby Walmart and Home Depot nearly disappeared, yet this poor 7-11 is still suffering. Glad to hear he appreciates HSM’s efforts!

What’s next said on 18 Jun 2008 at 5:52 pm:

I live on rt.1 and when I first moved here my wife and I went to the 7-11 (at the corner of the prkway and rt.1) and there were about 30 guys just standing around. As we walked in most were staring at my wife and talking about her in Spanish. I never go there anymore when I’m with her and I don’t allow her to go alone because I fear for her safety. I can see how these types of places would lose business because nobody wants to deal with it. I’ve also had a similar experience at the other 7-11, next to Rico’s Taco’s.

# anonlady said on 18 Jun 2008 at 7:17 pm:

Sunday night at around 6 pm there were 20 or so guys “looking for work” (wink, wink) at the 7-11 at Rt. 1 and the Parkway.

I used to be a regular 7-11 customer – slurpees and/or coffee everyday; yum.

Haven’t been in several years. It’s just not worth it.

stw…or should I say Greg. The effect on the businessman is not acceptable either. Abuse by the undocumented is not justifiable than by the documented. Abuse is wrong no matter who commits it.

This is why, the day laborer center in Herndon was such a great idea. But Help Save Herndon killed it. This is what I mean by fighting the Law of Supply and Demand. It creates unnecessary problems and businessmen like the 7-11 owner suffer. And while he may complain, many people come to his business specifically to pick up the laborers. Do they not take the opportunity to buy his products?

You see…I too advocate the Rule of Law. But my law is called the Law of Supply and Demand. It is a form of freedom.

And another heartbreaking story, for all of you who like to post your heartbreaking stories about illegal immigrants and what a hard time they have here:

Fellow local blogger PWConservative writes about an “interesting” experience on Sudley Road where he was rear-ended by someone lacking a drivers license, lacking any insurance, who could not speak English, and who left the scene of the accident in an attempt to evade an interaction with the Prince William County Police Department. I’d hope our fellow conservative blogger ensures that whatever information about this driver and his vehicle hs has is quickly provided to the police so we can remove another dangerous and unlicensed driver from our roads.

The problem was, the guy who hit me couldn’t speak a word of English, My linguistic skills in Spanish are equally dismal, I am assuming He was either a Tourist or Illegal Immigrant (Alien sounds too much like a Martian).

We pulled over, As soon as He saw that My neck hadn’t completely snapped off, He mumbled something in Spanish, Jumped back in his car and took off.

The question PWConservative poses is whether the Rule of Law Resolution has improved road safety. In his case, the presumed illegal alien fled the scene in order to avoid law enforcement scruitiny, but that behavior has long been a hallmark of illegal alien drivers in the area, who have been fleeing the scene of an accident long before anyone was discussing a crackdown on illegal aliens. In Mexico, for example, the advice given to many legal drivers is to flee the scene of an accident regardless of whether you’re at fault or not, because any interaction with the corruption-ridden police at all will be somewhat problematic, at best.

The problem of unlicensed and uninsured drivers of questionable legal status in Prince William County running away from the scene of a accident exploded in the past several years. Not too long ago, Lieutenant Philip Harrover was gravely injured in an auto accident involving a drunken illegal alien who attempted to flee from the scene. In my discussions with area residents, I always seem to find a ready supply of people with stories to tell about how their parked car was smashed by someone on a Friday or Saturday night that fled, or attempted to flee the scene. When the individuals were apprehended, they almost always seemed to have tremendous difficulty speaking English, don’t posess a drivers license, and have no insurance.

The frequency of these accidents seems to be decreasing, however. Mexicans Without Borders has plead with their illegal alien membership to respect state and local laws, many more folks are riding around on bicycles, and the local reports of parked cars getting hit in neighborhood have declined to just about zero. By reducing the number of illegal aliens unlawfully present in the area, the number of unlicensed and uninsured drivers has precipitously dropped, although as PWConservative’s account attests, we still have more work to do. By all accounts, the Rule of Law Resolution has made our roads safer, even if we havn’t quite yet discouraged the remaining illegal aliens in the area from unlawfully using a motor vehicle.

# DPortM said on 20 Jun 2008 at 11:58 am:

I know someone who was hit at the intersection of 234 and Sudley Manor about three weeks ago and the woman didn’t speak English and she didn’t have a driver’s license. The person who was hit asked the officer why he wasn’t checking the immigration status of the driver and the police officer said that policy had been suspended and that they weren’t checking any longer for just an auto accident anyways.

# CitizenofManassas said on 20 Jun 2008 at 12:26 pm:

The poor guy was most likely just trying to go from his 4th job to his 5th job in attempt to provide for his family who is otherwise law abiding and upstanding. No doubt he also is under pressure to support the family members that he left behind in his native Country. I can understand why he has not had the time to obtain a driver license and insurance.

Oh, that’s right, you all are only interested in helping the illegals in the county – to hell with the hard working LEGAL businessman!

There goes that broad brush again. I’ll speak for myself only. I don’t want to see any looney groups at 7-11. But then again, I haven’t come to a 7-11 that I’m afraid of. My husband stopped at that Coverstone 7-11 on his way to NVCC one morning recently. He wasn’t afraid of the day laborers.

Your law of Supply and Demand, Mackie, is we Demand and you Supply.

And watch who you call “bubba” – Wacky Mackie! You are wacky too when you don’t even realize I posted to help you out. Leaving Point of Woods aka anon insisted he never posted on BVBL. It is clear he does. You might have missed the proof since you said you saw that thread but read it without much interest. He was the first poster on that thread.

CensoredbyBVBL: I’m sure your husband is the size of a lumberjack or something. Big deal that he doesn’t feel afraid of going to the Coverstone 7-11. If everyone was the size of a lumberjack they wouldn’t be afraid in crossing the “day laborer line” either!

AWCheney: the only thing Mackie supplies is a bunch of BS.

Mackie spouted angrily: “stw…or should I say Greg.” Thar she blows again! Everyone must be Greg in hiding! Yeah Mackie keep telling yourself that. Live in your delusional world that the only person who could be on here and post those kinds of things in support of the resolution must be holy Greg himself! You are pretty deluded to think that!

Mackie pontificated most eloquently: How pathetic that the HSM should choose to deny hardworking men a chance to put food on the table. Is this now the definition of patriot?

And what is your definition of a patriot, Mackie? Answer your own question! Or was it a rhetorical question? Then again you are quick to ask questions of others, but i don’t see you answering their questions. Interesting.

OneForTheRoad, is it a slow day over on BVBL that you have to keep bringing your threads here?

I think many uninsured drivers will flee the scene of an accident – native white guys as well as Hispanics. Just Cause will get his knickers in a bind, but here’s another of my stories: I was in my kitchen and looked out the window as a car tried to back into and turn around in a space besides my husband’s Jeep. The driver ripped the bumper off his car in the process and then tried to flee. But the turning radius was too tight and I ran out barefooted and stood in front of her car. I recognized her as a neighbor from a couple blocks away. She threw her insurance card out of the window at me and left. I called her boyfriend, who owned the car, and asked what he was going to do about the bumper. She wasn’t on his policy because she’d had too mant DUIs and had no license. Luckily, he paid. But, scofflaws come in all ethnicities.

Nice try to claim credit for the decreasing flights from the scene. There are as many factors at play there as in the home foreclosure mess.

OneForTheRoad, my husband is just average guy size. I’m just average woman size. We don’t quake in our boots at the thought of going to 7-11. And we don’t need a band of vigilantes accompanying us.

Hey Mackie: answer this one if you can:

Who’s the bigger patriot:
Door Number 1. The law abiding legal American resident who is hard working, doesn’t put a drain on society, and seeks to keep his family safe.

or

Door Number 2. Those who seek to allow people here who do not follow our laws and terrorize our citizens with their drunk and disorderly behavior.

or

Door Number 3: The legal citizen of Mexico who sneaks across the border and lets his country further disintegrate into a huge stinking pile of crap. And then he will expect every other country to help bail out his country.

I know which choice you’ll pick.

Censored – yes that’s right it is good that the resolution brought on all these foreclosures. There is one on my block that was full of illegals that all they did was loaf around and piss on their front yard. I didn’t see them doing any work. It was even too much of a bother for them to keep the grass on their lawn cut. It grew like weeds. And their junker of a car was an eyesore for the whole neighborhood. It probably was a danger to everyone when it was on the road. Unfortuantely wherever they moved it probably is still on the road. At least now the lawn is cut, the house is up for sale, and we don’t have to see people taking a leak in front of their house and on their neighbors lawns. They must be too lazy to take a leak inside the house – what a concept – so THAT is what the bathroom is for!

And good for you and your husband. Then again maybe you are martial arts experts. Whatever, it is good that you are not afraid. But maybe you should be.

I think it’s time to go back to BVBL. This place is pretty boring. See you later!

AWCheney,

You may insult me if you wish. I don’t mind, and I get a kick out of it. However, please include some substantial arguments along with your insults. It’s not fair to whet my appetite and then deny me the main course.

OneForTheRoad,

We don’t really need you to cut and paste BVBL’s posts here but you’re certainly welcome to debate the issues. I called stw Greg because that’s what he sounds like. It might not be Greg, but that’s the kind of person the follows the Glorious Gospel Greg.

And my definition of a patriotic American is one who fights for freedom. As you can see, HSM is moving us towards a police state when they even spend their free time harassing peaceful day laborers at the 7-11.

OneForTheRoad, I’ve lived next door to the same type of tenants and they were white.

Is the Crime Prevention Team like the Minutemen’s Civil Defense Corps?

Mackie, and is it not right to fight for our freedom from having such a huge drain on the local economy with all the services these freeloaders take up?

And “all hail Glorious Gospel Greg”!! I’m sure that’s what you like to think everyone who you disagree with does – repeats that mantra day and night. In your dreams, “bubba”!

Simple: LPOW was anon until he was cajoled endlessly into adopting something different. On BVBL he is still hiding behind the anon id. It is very simple to figure out. Also it sounds like the same junk he posts over here.

You story is interesting, but as far as a lack of personal responsibility goes, illegals have far more lack of personal responsibility than law abiding, legal residents. If they were so responsible, they wouldn’t be pissing on my front lawn, spitting their disgusting chewing tobacco on the sidewalk, and driving their wrecked up beater cars around the neighborhood blaring loud music. If they were so responsible, they’d pick up their lazy asses and clean up the mess they make instead of making an even bigger mess every day with their disgusting bodily functions and trash. I have never seen such a lack of personal responsiblity as the illegals appear to have. It is way beyond anything anyone could ever have imagined. If they were so responsible, they’d go back to Mexico and clean up the mess there, instead of bringing it here into the USA. We are not a welfare state, and we shouldn’t be helping these people who come in and trash our country.

Censored – I don’t know, I’ve never seen the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps. But the Crime Prevention Team is doing an outstanding job of making our businesses safe for all citizens and legal residents to enjoy and feel safe in.

I have never seen such a lack of personal responsiblity as the illegals appear to have. It is way beyond anything anyone could ever have imagined.

Maybe you’ve never seen that behavior before, but it certainly exists/existed in the good-old-boy community as well. I’ve lived in several of what you might call “marginal” neighborhoods and the same problems were present and the guilty parties weren’t Hispanic.

So, exactly what has the Crime Prevention Unit done? Where? What changes? Any permanent changes? Taking photos of day laborers isn’t enough in my book to classify any changes as more than temporary.

It is time to ask that all important question. What is the difference between the day laborers loitering and the Crime Prevention Team of HSM loitering? Seems to me that loitering is loitering.

Has the CPT been hired as private security? Maybe they should consider getting a few dogs out there. Sniff out the bad buys. Or…perhaps they just want to stir up trouble.

I don’t doubt for one minute if the 7-11 at Coverstone called the police and asked to have loiterers removed, it would happen. Those folks at 7-11 say whatever it is they think someone wants to hear.

I want to know what Censored asks. What HAS the CPT done to affect any change? Last time I drove by that 7-11 I saw plenty of folks out there looking for work.

Here’s a little secret: ICE knows exactly where the day laborers are. They don’t give a rat’s ass. So all the ‘I’m turning you in’ threats are just that…threats! BFD.

MH,

It’s like somebody said earlier ICE has bigger fish to fry. Why in the hell would they worry about 50 men loitering at 7-11 to find work. I personally hope and want ICE going after corporations. They could start in Rockingham County at the poultry plants, Smithfield meats, etc.
ICE was certainly interested in the concrete company right here Manassas.

You say BFD, I say UFB!
Both are quite fitting IMHO.

Censored,
I hope we get to exchange some of local yocal stories soon. I reall would like to meet you. We’ve had a couple of “rounds” in a “different world”. Yet, we could always find a thing or two to agree on. A mutual friend knew exactly who the fools were that stop by here to grind the stump in the front yard. She even knew name of one. lol

I would also like to add. I don’t want to drive by their and see anyone hanging out. Loiter free is loiter free, right?

I guess it could be said WHAT PART OF LOITERING DON’T YOU UNDERSTAND?

Chris:

It’s like somebody said earlier ICE has bigger fish to fry. Why in the hell would they worry about 50 men loitering at 7-11 to find work. I personally hope and want ICE is working on after corporations. They could start in Rockingham County at the poultry plants, Smithfield meats, etc.
ICE was certainly interested in the concrete company right here Manassas.

All the high profile ICE raids are nothing more than an illusion to mollify the voting public. The Bush Administration is doing it’s best to help John McCain get elected. These raids are all political stunts. The politicians know immigrants are part of the economy. They’re not really going to do anything. They’re not stupid enough to cut off their nose to spite their face and damage their own economy. It takes a local politician to be that stupid.

Chris said “I would also like to add. I don’t want to drive by their and see anyone hanging out. Loiter free is loiter free, right?”

So we all agree then – no Hispanic loiters, and no need for HSM to come by and photograph them.

Sounds like a good solution – everyone’s happy! The problem is everyone knows with things left the way there are now – “no Hispanic loiters” will never happen without someone doing something to stop them from loitering. As no one is, HSM is stepping in and doing that work. So if the Hispanics stop loitering, then obviously there won’t be any HSM loiters.

That shows how silly this whole argument is.

Mackie,
Your point is well taken. I can’t even get started on local politics.

OFTR,

I don’t think either group should be loitering. This all too in your face for me. I’ve been know to take pictures. However, without incident. It’s all in the approach.

Yes, it’s silly,indeed!!

Chris, one day you, Moon-howler, and I could meet to support a particular local business. Moon-howler knows which one.

Say what you want, but HSM is performing a public service by documenting the illegal hiring of illegal alien day laborers. It is a violation of federal law to employ an illegal alien. ICE obviously does care about illegal aliens – that is one of the purposes of their job. ICE just does not have the resources to round them all up and ship them all back to their home countries.

HSM isn’t loitering when we are at the day laborer spots. We certainly aren’t drinking alcohol, urinating and defectating in public, harassing women, and being a general public nuisance. Please remember that if the illegal alien day laborers weren’t destroying the businesses of these 7-11’s, HSM members wouldn’t have to spend our time documenting anything!

HSM is actually doing something about the problem. What is here at anti is a lot of persons posting nasty, derogatory comments about an organization or our local leaders that are focused on bettering our community and our county.

I would not rent one of my homes to an illegal, I always ask for proper id and documentation. I also do a credit check and other stuff to ensure they are who they say they are.

Loudoun, HSM has cost this county enough already. How many times will the police be called because your little vigilante group has to hunt Hispanics?

Please remember that if the illegal alien day laborers weren’t destroying the businesses of these 7-11’s, HSM members wouldn’t have to spend our time documenting anything!

Hogwash. I hope you don’t honestly think anyone falls for that excuse for your harrassment. No one is forcing you to do anything. You’ve got a couple people in your organization who love to stick their noses in front of cameras. That’s the real reason you’re there…hoping for publicity.

The accusation that those on the other side of the illegal alien situation are targeting Hispanics is perpetually forwarded by the illegal alien “lobby” in Prince William County, yet I primarily hear “Hispanics” specifically mentioned in the debate by people who make statements such as, “How many times will the police be called because your little vigilante group has to hunt Hispanics?” If the debate has devolved into one focusing on Hispanics, you ought to be looking in the mirror before you ask why.

There seems to be a misunderstanding about hiring daylaborers. AWCheney do you want to clear up the issue? I think you did a wonderful job the last time explaining your experience at the masonry company.

I’ll be happy to explain my experience during the time I managed our family masonry construction company (after the death of my father) but I don’t understand what you mean regarding the “misunderstanding about hiring day laborers.”

I first became aware of the homeless situation in Prince William County in the early 80’s from one of my sisters who periodically volunteered at the SERVE shelter in Manassas. A construction company often encounters immediate need for labor in the day-to-day operation of the business due to attrition or needs during “off season” construction (meaning not during the summer months when large armies of high school and college students were looking for summer work, and even unskilled laborers could make extremely good money in construction…we paid LEGAL, market wages). To make a long story short, I simply made the decision to periodically offer those jobs to men at the Shelter, rather than only running ads in the newspapers. A man with the right attitude and work ethic could make a very good living in those jobs…many of our skilled bricklayers, even foremen, actually started out with our company as laborers.

I find it senseless for a construction company, or any company for that matter, to be hiring people who are taking jobs illegally and are here today, gone tomorrow, simply to save a few dollars. It’s pure exploitation at the expense of people who are here legally and need those jobs just as badly, while not breaking the law to get them.

Censored,

We aren’t vigilantes, we don’t hunt anyone, I personally have never had my face on camera, and we certainly don’t harass anyone.

The only way to effect change is to bring to light the problems that are facing our county, our state, and our nation. I certainly don’t do this for fame, but for my loyalty and love for my country.

You don’t know me, and I am sure you don’t know any members of HSM, because if you did, you wouldn’t make those accusations.

Why don’t you come to our next meeting so you can see how utterly misguided you are?

The accusation that those on the other side of the illegal alien situation are targeting Hispanics is perpetually forwarded by the illegal alien “lobby” in Prince William County, yet I primarily hear “Hispanics” specifically mentioned in the debate by people who make statements such as, “How many times will the police be called because your little vigilante group has to hunt Hispanics?” If the debate has devolved into one focusing on Hispanics, you ought to be looking in the mirror before you ask why.

AWCheney, since you quoted me and I was talking about the activity at the 7-11 (Coverstone, in particular), do you deny that the day laborers there are Hispanic?

We aren’t vigilantes, we don’t hunt anyone, I personally have never had my face on camera, and we certainly don’t harass anyone.

A video camera, you mean? Perhaps you don’t harrass anyone, but a witness who happened to visit that 7-11 was surprised by what he (or she) saw…two members of your group shouting at the day laborers (something similar to “Go home. Get out of our country. You don’t belong here.”)

Censored,
I’ve told MH to get on it. I know the place too. We shall meet soon.

Let the witness come forward and then we will see who is lying. That was NEVER said at the 7-11 and whoever claimed they witnessed it is a liar. However, the illegal alien day laborers have yelled at us – expletives and words too foul to be repeated here.

Censored – you and those who associate with you either have blinders on or are lost in some alternate reality.

I invited you to see for yourself what HSM is all about. Will you take me up on the offer or will you keep slandering those whom you know nothing at all about?

Loudoun, I didn’t just drop off the turnip truck. I’ve followed this issue. I don’t need to attend HSM meetings (just as I don’t attend MWB’s meetings) to get the drift. I’ve read your (HSM’s) newsletters, read BVBL (the dog food thread, the Christmas parade thread, and a multitude of others), read the MJM and WaPo as well as many other blogs and newspapers. I’ve seen how the majority of Manassas City Republicans rejected HSM’s slate and how the SPLC has labelled Greg a nativist. I’ve seen how the KKK can feel at ease in dropping its literature off on Manassas streets. I’ve seen how FAIR bombarded, with the help of HSM, our BOCS and influenced policy without input at a public hearing from the average PWC resident. Here’s a clue for you…the vast majority of County residents are unaffected by overcrowding and day laborers at 7-11.

I have no reason to believe the person who said that he witnessed the above statements is lying. In fact, it rather backs up what the Hispanic men in 9500liberty’s video said. Maybe you have the ability to be reasonable; but unless you’re always there with the HSM crew, you can’t vouch that it didn’t happen.

Chris, hope to see you soon.

Well, let me be blunt since that seems to be a word of the day.

I have a lot more respect for some illegal immigrant trying to work (not that I KNOW who is and who isn’t) than some lazy ass native born citizen sitting on his or her tail, drinking and drugging and contributing nothing to society.

As a citizen of the world, when it comes to compassion, I think we can look beyond political boundaries.

Perhaps we need to explore and discuss what vigilanteeism is and what it is not.

Unless HSM has a written agreement with the 7-11 where they are loitering along with the day laborers, I would think they were out there as vigilantees.

No one has successfully stated what changes have been made since HSM has been out there. Are there still day laborers? yes. Are there still still people swinging by for workers? yes So what has changed?

Oh and as many times as I have gone past the Coverstone 7-11, I see hispanic workers almost 100% of the time. I find it odd that HSM assumes everyone is illegal. What are they going to do when they report an American citizen for being hired, if anyone even cares.

Loudoun, stay away from that kool aid. Poison alert!