AntiBVBL

Yeah, and Annabel and Eric have to do so much to make GL and his pals racist, huh? You know what? They look racist through ANY camera lense. You can’t hide the truth for very long.

kgo…you are truly a piece of work! Also, I have read some of the most viscious, shameful, hateful, mean-spirited, and at times threatening comments on this blog and “mom” leads the pack. Birds of a feather……

MayDay used to be a glorious celebration of the revolutionary spirit. Ah, the beautiful parades in Red Square! Now I must march amid the bovine masses, waving my Mexican flag in sad futility.

One day, we will make the white man pay….

Reading the resolution is pretty clear to me. I don’t think the spin can continue.

Also, attacking Deane must appear to be the only avenue left?

Too much work today to check out Eric and Annabel…will do so as soon as any video is up and running.

The bashing of the Police Chief is ridiculous. I don’t visit the other blog because it is so disgusting, but I can only imagine. I guess since Deane’s leadership has led to a downward trend in crime in the County…a factual statistic overlooked by these people…he is to be thrown out simply because he is a reasonable and thoughtful person…traits not inherent in “Advocator” and some of the other nuts. I’m still in absolute disbelief that ANYTHING drafted by that guy was even remotely taken seriously by elected officials. P. U.

Maribel, if you don’t like what I write, then why do you bother to read it? No one tells you to come here or to comment on what I write. Do you LIKE to get yourself annoyed?

Let me tell you something. When I found BVBL offensive, I didn’t GO THERE! Do you know why? Because I can’t stand to read that kind of stuff. GL blocked me but I had to find out second hand that he even WAS blocking me. I am not “after” BVBL for other reasons, not just being a piece of poop floating in the blogosphere. GL has crossed the virtual line into the physical, and that is a no-no.

If you find my comments offensive, well, then, that’s the way it is. I’m not cutting you down, nor am I bashing anyone on this blog. If you want to defend GL, go become his lawyer. He’s going to need one.

“I am not “after” BVBL for other reasons” I meant I am NOW after BVBL…and I mean that as in it need to be shut down.

Twin, you know what’s ironic? That people can bash the Chief of Police but get upset if you bash GL or any of his vocal buds. Does that sound surreal to anyone else here?

KGott,

Surreal, but par for the course.

Don’t pay any attention to Maribel…she is the biggest hypocrite I have ever come across in my life. She is only here enjoying a great life in America because her father came here illegally. Yet she wants no one else to have the chance her father had. How she can look at herself in the mirror is beyond me.

“How she can look at herself in the mirror is beyond me.”

Convenient eyesight problems?

: )

“Anti-BVBL” … wow, you couldn’t think of a more original name.

Los Idiotas Unidos- they are the locos who crossed the border from Mexico to the US without proper ID. Una Idiota said: “Stepping on those tracks is like sitting in a sacred space where many have prayed before you. It is like walking through Auschwitz…” These people obviously haven’t got a CLUE what went on behind the walls and barbed wires of Auschwitz. Are illegals brought here against their will? NO. Actually, they come here FREELY. Do we round them up by the thousands, treat them like cattle, and force them to toil until death? NO. Is there a Dr. Mengele performing horrendous experiments on them? NO.
The Nazis made homosexual men wear a pink triangle, the Roma and Sinti people were forced to wear a black triangle, the Nazis made the Jewish people wear a yellow star, and the list goes on. Do the BoCS, FAIR, etc. make illegals wear their colours? NOPE, but they fly El Salvador, Mexico, and other flags at their own free will. I guess it’s too much to ask them to go to Wal*Mart and buy an American flag for the country they allegedly love so much.

PotomacNews: “Immigrant rights’ groups to march in DC”
May 1, 2008

Associated Press
Published: May 1, 2008

WASHINGTON (AP) _ A coalition of immigrant rights’ groups and social justice organizations are marching today in Washington to call for immigration reform.

The groups are demanding that Prince William County, in northern Virginia, rescind its anti-illegal immigration measure. They also want raids and deportations to end, and are calling for worker centers to be established in Washington, Maryland and Virginia.

Activists also plan to deliver a letter to the Republican and Democratic national committees, asking the presidential candidates to enact immigration reform.

The events in Washington are part of rallies and marches planned in cities across the nation.

Notice how it says “anti-ILLEGAL.” I rest my case.

PS-
Here’s some “equality.” if BVBL “needs” to be shut down, then it would only make sense to take the rival sibling down with it. It’s the fair thing to do!

Twinad,

I don’t buy the story. I just think it is one of the many multiple personalities from the trough that allows a few people to preach to the choir.

Mom rarely posts here but like everyone else, she is welcome. Mom has been known to be quite blunt and critical wherever ’she’ goes. Actually she was more positive here than she usually is on the OTHER. Mom’s identity remains a mystery to all.

I love how admin stated at the BOCS that the Other was so full of hatred and name calling. All I can say is people who live in glass houses (even if there’s 20 of you) shouldn’t throw stones! kgotthardt is starting to destroy your ‘open discussion’ theme big time!

Lets hope all the illegals come back and then you can try your alternate approach at solving the problems in place of the Resolution. What an opportunity to prove to the nation that PWC had it all wrong. Why don’t you prove that you have better methods by getting that billboard taken care of, and then we may start paying some attention to what you’re saying. Actions speak louder than words.

SA, what do you you think about the attacks on Deane and the changes to the resolution?

I don’t have much to say about Deane. He is suppose to work for the benefit of the legal citizens, and uphold the law whatever it might be. As far as the change in the Resolution, it should end all the unnecessary fear of profiling. However, if the county starts to regress I can guarantee that the money will be found for those cameras, and the change to the Resolution undone. The people would send donations before they would live through this again. It’s either that or the only people that will be left in the county will be day laborers.

See, I find that confusing. Until Tuesday, S&S were firm on a lower/no tax increase and questioned the necessity of the cameras. Mr. Covington was firm about not increasing tax rate due to commerical impact.

I think they did realize that gutting county gov’t was not the answer but they did a complete reversal on taxes and opinion on the cameras. Unfortunately, on this, I don’t think people want to put their money into it as it is a never ending pond and right now there is very little support for this issue (financially) outside PWC.

I think the approach now is sound and if someone would think to increase or shift support to neighborhood services it would take care of issues like Park’d has mentioned and people like Lafayette have addressed on their own for the past year or so.

Keeping on the neighborhoods is good for everyone and there was no additional resource applied to that area despite requests.

I agree with keeping on the neighborhoods, but how do you accomplish this as no one has found a way to enforce housing issues without some support group claiming we’re targeting Latinos and threatening to sue. This has been an ongoing problem that is a big source of the frustrations that resulted in the Resolution as the only legal solution.

SecondAlamo,

I believe that federal and state laws prohibit some of the action that needs to be taken with housing issues. Also, the minute you start talking about how many people live in a house, you get your hand slapped. A house down the street from me had 11 kids living in it. You can’t tell people they can’t have 11 kids (although I would like to be able to say that).

I agree with Juturna about beefing up neighborhood services. We need people to be on the job when folks are at home. We are going to have a horrible time this summer with the mowing that is going to have to be done on these vacant houses. I can see 4 or 5 of them from my front door. (thus dispelling the notion that I live in a gated community) To my knowledge, neighborhood services weren’t given an extra dime. That is where change can happen.

And to answer your question, I simply don’t know. Valley Girl posted some really good suggestions here this morning. Do any of those look do-able to you?

Clarification: Before anyone asks, the family down the street with the 11 kids was anglo.

I have a better question. How does one support 11 kids? Maybe they won the lottery, but I must have taken the wrong major in college, because I couldn’t afford that.

I’ll take a look at some of the suggestions.

I reposted the suggestions from Valley Girl. We really should take a pro-active stance. It would be great if the Board could maybe form a task force, as an intermediary, when problems do arise in neighborhoods. SA makes a good point in that we don’t want to wait if issues arise again.

Valley Girl said on 1 May 2008 at 8:37 am:
A couple of ideas that worked in Loudoun -
1. presentations held at any Spanish language event (i.e. churches, school meetings, Hispanic markets, done with Zoning enforcement officials in Spanish that explains zoning laws in a straightforward, practical way. Assume that the folks that have 10 plus people in their homes will not attend but encourage peer pressure – a “pass the word along” approach, about the zoning laws and the effect that breaking them has on the whole community.
2. Drop off flyers in Spanish (BRIEF and too teh point, best with graphics) to the same effect.
3. Create neighborhood groups that include Hispanics and people of other ethnicities, that meet once a month and include a two or three person team that can drop by problem houses (perhaps notifying police in advance) to try to make contact and voice concerns as a first step, with the promise that enforcement will be on the way if the problem is not solved. I encourge training by a group such as Northern Virginia Mediation first. In some cases this training could be free.
4. Approach your zoning department as a neighborhood team, again including neighbors of various ethnicities. A group has more weight and if it is diverse it is hardly controversial.
5. neighborhood picnics and block parties, to establish positive contact and communication.
6. Offer a once a week ESL class in your home. It could be as short as 1 hour, basic level. Teaching ESL is great fun and it is wonderful to expose your kids to volunteerism. You could have a small group of two to five people. You will become a “friendly person” and your concerns about probled houses will be taken more seriously by the Spanish speaking community. A potluck dinner idea works graet and you will get some great food. If not in your own home than in a nearby church, library etc. there are many free ESL teacher training resources.

These steps take some commitment. Getting a group of people together and keeping them togther takes time, but it is worth it.

One thing that has always intersted me is teh issue of work vehicles in residential areas. can we offer alternative parking areas? On teh one hand it is an eye sore, on teh other hand it is a livelihood. Is there an empty parking lot with a shuttle bus?

We have to offer alterantives.

SecondAlamo, I would say you are right on enforcing overcrowding etc. But additionally the zoning officers have essentially refused to do any kind of investigation on anything. They follow up on a minimum basis and stop.

The above are well intentioned methods to help return our communities to ‘normal’ community standards. However, there are two major problems. First we aren’t dealing with a static population, but one that is ever increasing due to the constant border crossings. Eventually you would be overwhelmed in your efforts. Secondly I would still like to know how we can ‘enforce’ anything on those who still refuse to conform. I keep referring to the billboard as an example. We all know that in normal times that should never be allowed yet there it stands, and they want to enlarge it! Just tell me how even that can be dealt with successfully.

Those are great suggestions from Valley Girl.

There is a new business in PWC called “Home Town Greetings”. It is similar to Welcome Wagon, where they send out people to meet and greet newcomers in the neighborhood, and take them information about the area and area businesses.

Loading those packets with some good basic information and government partnering with this business to train the people they send out to communicate some basic things would be a good idea.

Our neighborhood watch is going to discuss vacant houses at the May meeting. It seems like if neighbors could look out for these places — pick up the free papers that sit there for days, pick up the tree limbs and trash … even get youth involved to mow the lawns (all with permission of the owners or banks, whatever), it would help build community.

Also, at the county’s neighborhood conference, they did a kind of a role play with the whole room full of people, asking people what their talents are, and how they could work together to make something happen. If you could bring together people for community meetings and brainstorm you could come up with solutions that are unique to that neighborhood — maybe get neighborhood services coordinators to act as facilitators, and then identify citizens who could take leadership roles.

George Mason University has a conflict resolution group. Bring together the sign owner, the neighbors, and anyone who is interested and try to work on a solution.

The sign is like an outward and visible barometer of all the hate and anger and fear bubbling up everywhere and spilling over. I’m not surprised it has expanded, larger and larger.

It will also be a signal that our community is getting healthier and healing when it does go, in the fullness of time. I pray that day is soon.

Second Alamo,

I really do not know. I never figured it out. I don’t think you pay any tax if you have that many dependents. Amazing, isn’t it? I was just always glad it was them and not me.

I think we are going to have to emphasize the neighborhoods and real fast. We are going to have a critical neighborhood situation with all the grass that is going to need mowing and bushes that need trimming. Tempers are worse in the summer.

“One thing that has always intersted me is teh issue of work vehicles in residential areas. can we offer alternative parking areas? On teh one hand it is an eye sore, on teh other hand it is a livelihood. Is there an empty parking lot with a shuttle bus?”

Unfortunately this solution is unworkable in this area.

First of all land is this area is far too expensive to pay for a free parking lot (who would pay for that) It is $500K for a simple church parking lot for 200 spots once you pay for the parking lot and all the site work (trees, curbs, gutters) that the county requires. ERven a gravel lot is now required to have the trees, etc. Shuttle buses are a fortune as well and that doesn’t even include the gas.

What about private lots that aren’t being used in the evening. The company still has to pay to have the lot repaved, more vehicles means more paving costs. And most work truck owners want to have their truck right in front of the house and would never leave it at a lot because all their expensive power equipment, ladders, etc is in or on the truck. If it is front of your house, you can keep an eye on it and it isn’t as likely to be broken into as in a lot with no one around.

HOAs can solve some of these problems, but the older neighborhoods, the ones most plagued by this type of problem, do not have HOAs, so they are stuck.

Okay…that was freaking surreal, Alanna! One second, I’m reading the old blog. Click to another area, and, VOILA, the whole thing changes right before my eyes!

How’d you do that ????

I really like the bright new look. It reflects how I think about this blog: a ray of bright hope shining in an awfully dark blogosphere. The graphic design of the other blog is all about intimidation.

I’m sure you’ll have some bugs to work out since this change just happened, oh, about sixty seconds ago.

Off to browse. And thank you for all you’ve done with this blog!

LOL…Thursday night is HGTV must see tv for me. Now that I watched both episodes of “House Hunters”, I thought I’d check out the blog and see what you’ve all been discussing tonight.

And now it’s back to the way it was before.

Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!!

Sorry for catching you when you’re weren’t expecting guests!

Admin, thank you. I cannot wait to come home

My mother hangs a mini-Panama flag on her rear-view mirror. She has a bigger one hanging in the back. We’re both from Panama, but she looks more Hispanic than I do. When the Resolution passed, I asked her if she had ever been pulled over. She said no. So I have to chuckle when I read comments from people freaking out about “racial profiling. I drive an awfully conspicuous truck when I’m home.

Anyhow, I’m not too keen on wearing a shirt with a flag on it, but that’s just me It’s been my experience that if you go to other countries and fly, wear, etc. a different flag, the locals look at you strangely. Gosh, it’s even illegal in some places! I wouldn’t say it’s not patriotic; it just seems odd that someone resides in a country and flies a different flag, that’s all.

Hmmm, I don’t think I’ve seen any IRL stickers. The only ones I’ve seen say “OBX”.

Again, thank you.

Valley Girl and Cindy B. Thank you for your thoughtful posts. Education is the key. Letting immigrants know what the ordinances are and what is acceptable and not acceptable. When they know the rules they will abide by them. When the Vietnamese arrived, they needed to be told by a translator what was acceptable.

Second Alamo-Just in case you do not know this, law enforcement officials must protect and serve ALL residents, NOT just the “legal”.

PWC has a Neighborhood Services Handbook with common violations, and it’s printed in English and Spanish. These have proven to work in areas they’ve been distributed. They also have a newsletter. Here’s the link to Jan/Feb 2008 addition. It’s very informative.

http://www.pwcgov.org/docLibrary/PDF/007491.pdf

Good morning, oh Noble Board.

Let me talk about being blunt. I’m pretty blunt. I grew up first in a northern “yahoo” town and when I went to college, lived in pretty rough parts of the city. I’ve not had a cushy life. I’m not exactly as polished as some would like me to be, though I’m fairly well educated. But “blunt” is the least of our problems here.

I’ve spoken to many “blunt” people, and really, it’s refreshing. Blunt people don’t sling the BS. They have nothing to hide. They are themselves. In fact, I had a long conversation with that guy who said at the April 22nd meeting that the county ‘was trying to live on champagne when it needs to be on a beer diet.’ He supports the resolution because he’s had problems with his rental properties…..not with the “families” or the “Hispanics” in general but with REALLY unruly people. He said he would rent his whole property if he had Hispanics like the ones he has mostly…..they are peaceful, hard working and mind their own business. So I asked him if everyone acted like those families he likes, would he care about immigration status. He said “no. That’s their business.”

I told him he didn’t seem like a hateful person to me and I completely understood why he was angry. I also told him that the kind of behavior he was describing (in REALLY BLUNT terms that would offend most of you) was not acceptable, that we had to send a clear message it was not. We don’t always have to send clear messages through deportation. Reserve that for criminals.

So….lesson in being blunt. Nice guy, blunt, fair and honest.

If blunt offends you, don’t talk to this guy and don’t read my postings.

Understand the distinction between being blunt, being hateful, being angry, being racist, and being part of a hate or hate mongering group that treats everyone who is different poorly.

BVBL has bashed gays (or people who have “gender identity problems”), the elderly, people of different religions, and immigrants of different nationalities. That’s not blunt. That’s a serious social problem.

If BVBL gets shut down, Admin. could always change the name of this blog because you won’t see anything that I just described here. I see lots of solutions here.

And yes, I see lots of bluntness.

I don’t have much time this morning but I ran across this article on MSN and wanted to share.

Crackdown leads to drop in illegal immigration
Tighter security persuades some would-be migrants to give up sooner

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24409765

kg,

I would agree with you, your post actually seems very intelligent but I will have to say that I have seen some pretty hateful things from you (and others) on this blog. Blunt is fine, belligerent is not. You are belligerent and in doing so you cloud your point by ensuring that people get upset at you. and when admin and others come to your defense they delete other peoples posts.

if you feel you are being blunt, that’s fine. but dont try to cloud the issue here. Normally people who are sure of their attitude dont feel the need to explain themselves, you apparently do need to explain your behavior which obviously means you see some flaw in it. There is no explanation for being rude, crude and obnoxious. if you have an issue that is fine, back up it up with respectable facts, opinions or whatever. Being blunt is stupid in civilized society and it makes you look like someone of lower social status.

KG,

I can be very blunt. I work on controlling it but it doesn’t always work. I have been told that my bluntness is seen by some as rude…nah…not me;)

Yes, many folks over at the other could be described as blunt also. They are also stirred into a frenzy by a person whose goal it is to do just that. I don’t think that trying to reason with some of those angry folks is productive for us. And some of them, like your guy you talked to, probably have a reason to be angry.

Anger, however, isn’t usually the best way to solve problems. I think we need to stop engaging them. We are getting off focus and this issue is far from settled. It isn’t over by a long shot.

Just my opinion, for what thats worth. I don’t want to become one of those angry people. I saw that was happening.

Yes, thousands gathered, and you want pictures. Why were they gathered? They gather for May Day, and worldwide celebration of marxist and anarchist revolution. I think it quite telling that those here who picked up and carry the banner for Mexicans Without Borders, by continuing to defend ILLEGAL ALIENS. Yeah, I know. Many of you don’t think that marxist-socialists will ever come to power in this country. Are you all that stupid? Look at Berkely. Look at San Francisco. look who is leading the Democrat party. Look who is funding and running the majority of 527’s.

You’ve got a regular contributor who wants people arrested for political speech. She wants them arrested for wearing military clothing. She wants them arrested because they chose to exercise their Constitutionally protected right to bear arms for self-defense.

That many of you celebrate the gatherings of those who wish to destroy traditional American way-of-life is quite telling indeed.

Info only, thanks for posting a link to the county’s Neighborhood News. The clutter photos of “Things Your Neighbors Shouldn’t Have to Look At” were a lot worse than the things I saw walking my dog this morning — the worst was a shopping cart in the yard of a vacant home — but I still picked up three grocery bags of trash in a less than 2 mile radius.

Keep the solutions dialog going!

Cindy,

Good for you. Wow.

I think we need to start making lists of vacant houses in our neighborhoods. That will help with intruders, squatters, kids hanging out, etc. We can also start alerting the county about mowing and cleaning up debris.

Does anyone know anything about this?

Ed.
Marxist, socialist, anarchists, leftist? Sounds like a wild conspiracy theory. You do realize that Hispanics are KIA(Killed in Action) at a faster rate than African Americans, guess they didn’t get the memo that they should ‘destroy traditional American way-of-life.’ Hispanics make an excellent ‘fit’ with the Republican party – religious and family oriented but we’re now driving them away in droves. The Republican Party’s actions actually could force Hispanics into voting Democratic in the next Presidential election.

Love the new look!! It conveys professionalism and sophistication.
Some thoughts: Can you make the typeface a point or two bigger? And perhaps black? It looks closer to gray now. That will make it easier to read.

Thanks, and great job!!!

To Ed -
I just want to point out that this is a very diverse crowd here, in every sense.

I have never been comfortable with the marching and demanding rights approach for resolving the immigration crisis. I think that it fuels the fire and demonstrates a misunderstanding of the American ethos, an understanding of which is critical to move major change forward (just look at Obama’s handling of the Wright situation). There is a real potential for federal reform but “demanding” rights for illegal immigrants (beyond obvious human rights we all share) is a fundamentally flawed, poor strategy.

I also object to the content of the Liberty Wall, specifically the part about recent immigrants being Native Americans. The first parts of the text may be accurate representations of parts of our complicated US history, but it disregards all of the fantastically positive works by individuals and groups that have for the most part overcome those historical horrors and created a nation that is so fantastic (albeit flawed) that hundreds of thousands of people seek to come here and where we have the right to post whatever signs we want on private property.
But back to the Native American part. Recent immigrants from Latin America (with some few but notable exceptions) are almost all Meztizos, i.e. mixed Spanish and Indian, and a dozen other ethnicities on top of that (Japanese, German, African, etc.). Furthermore, they are descendents of Aztec, Maya, and Inca and other Southern American tribes, not Northern Indian tribes such as Apache, Cherokee, Sioux, etc. There are significant differences between the histories of those native Americans. I do not see any inherent rights of Indigenous people from Mexico, Central and South America in the US.

Ironically, in Latin American culture it is sadly common for “indio” to be used to describe someone as dimwitted, backwards, etc. I know of very few Latin American immigrants who describe themselves as Native Americans. The only ones I know who might do so are “activists”, and they are so often very far off ideologically from the people they purport to represent.

I just can’ think of a worse way to achieve progress in the current environment than to display that sign, though they have every right to do so. I would just hope that people know that it does not reflect a majority opinion among Latin American immigrants.

Actually, I also know some very real Indigenous people from Mexico and Central America, but they are so humble, they would never make claims like those on the Liberty Wall.

And back to a solution. There is a very succesful concept in health outreach to immigrants called the “Promatora de Salud”. It is based on traditional communities, where there is often a well respected unofficial matriarch, the “go to person” who is well respected and wise. This aspect of community is often replicated amoung immigrants in their new communites, so the approach is to identify those unofficial community leaders and train them about a health topic so that they can disperse that information to others who trust them. The same could work for neighborhood issues such as overcrowding. In this case it could be men or women, a pastor, a store owner. Anyone that is well known and regarded in the microcommunity, and preferably a small group of people. You could formally train these people as mediators and leaders in their communties who would spread the word about overt overcrowding and the concept of good neighborliness. Communities have to change from within and it has to become unacceptable amoung immigrants themselves to have an unsafe amount of people in a home, to not put in effort to keep a home looking good, and to not be a good neighbor.

Enough about the Liberty Wall. It’s all just words (and, of course we all know that “mere words cannot incite”). Those who oppose it have every right in the world to erect their own sign somewhere. What about the notorious Republican Hill? The two hills on either side of the Minneville Rd. and PW Parkway intersection? They owner is a Republican, and he allows the party’s candidates to erect giant signs during campaigns. Approach him and see if he’ll agree. Or lease space on a billboard.

Just stop whining about it already! Let the city’s zoning process play out and it will be gone soon enough. To use it as an example of everything you see wrong about this debate is ridiculous. It’s one man’s sign. His thoughts, on his property. If it’s erected illegally, it will come down.

Sure, it’s inflammatory. It’s also provocative, which is not always a bad thing.

I also think it’s a flight of fancy to make this sign somehow analogous to Barack Obama and Jeremiah Wright.

Valley Girl wrote:

But back to the Native American part. Recent immigrants from Latin America (with some few but notable exceptions) are almost all Meztizos, i.e. mixed Spanish and Indian, and a dozen other ethnicities on top of that (Japanese, German, African, etc.). Furthermore, they are descendents of Aztec, Maya, and Inca and other Southern American tribes, not Northern Indian tribes such as Apache, Cherokee, Sioux, etc. There are significant differences between the histories of those native Americans. I do not see any inherent rights of Indigenous people from Mexico, Central and South America in the US.
Ironically, in Latin American culture it is sadly common for “indio” to be used to describe someone as dimwitted, backwards, etc. I know of very few Latin American immigrants who describe themselves as Native Americans. The only ones I know who might do so are “activists”, and they are so often very far off ideologically from the people they purport to represent.

Absolutely! But it also needs to be pointed out that these indigenous tribes suffered much the same fate as our own Americans Indians did when the Spanish came over and colonized Mexico. The powerful ruling class in Mexico are descended from these European Spaniards. Just look at those Mexicans and Central Americans who are coming to America from their home countries. Then spend a few minutes watching Telemundo or any of the Spanish-language TV stations. Look at the actors, talk show hosts, game show contestants, news reporters and anchors. Notice anything? They are the privileged class, all of whom are descended from the Spanish.

The native tribes are discriminated and marginalized. They yield little power outside their own villages or few states where they hold a majority. They live in poverty because they have no voice.

So they come here where, as bad as it can be for them, at least they don’t have to worry about their entire village sliding down the mountain in a river of mud during the rainy season.

Actually – I disagree completely. Not that the fate of Latin American Indians was much better than North AMerican Indians, BUT the approach was completely different and had a major impact in the evolutions of the US vs. much of Latin America. Latin AMerica was conquest, rape, and intermixing. North America was an almost total extermination. It has a lot to do with the objectives of England vs. Spain and Portugal. But that is a long history lesson.

As to how the liberty wall and immigration protest strategy relates to Obama and Wright – Generally speaking, in order to move an issue forward and create change it is imperative that you have an understanding of the powers that be and/or the minds you wish to change. Your style of communication must take into consideration the audience. A good communicator is a good listener. Obama is a great communicator and he undertands the larger audience, the powers that be, th American Public. It is impossible to know how he truly feels about Wrights words in his heart but he knows that acknowledging his words means the end of his cause.

Please note that I belive in the fundamental right of the individual to post the Liberty Wall, no question, but to the extent that it is a confirmation of the worst fears of a lot of uninformed people who may be ambivilant about this sitauation, “the average Joe or Jane”, and it is basically a tool for anti-immigarnts extremists to proove their assertions about who immigrants, both legal and illegal, it is almost like a sabatoge to the cause, much like Wright, IMO.
Comprehensive Immigartion Reform (the only real solution to this mess) will not be achieved by the continuos back and forth of well established “sides” and the battle between the studies that “prove” one thing or another. It will be made when the average US voting citizen comes to a reasonable conclusion about the state of our immigration system and sees immigrants as a benefit to our nation, not a threat. A sign like this says, “threat” perhaps not to you but to many people that may not understand this situation as you do.

And don’t forget the extent that media can be used to photograph that sign and broadcast it around the nation as a symbol for whats going on in PW County.

FYI:

http://www.questconnect.org/mexico_cc_ethnic.htm

Ethnic Groups

The overwhelmingly largest ethnic group in Mexico is the Mestizos who are of mixed Spanish and Indian ancestry. They control most of the money and the power. The next largest group is the indigenous population who largely retain their sense of distinct identity. The Mexican government recognizes 56 different indigenous groups and these cultures that have survived largely because of their rural isolation. These people are generally poor and their main wealth is traditional and spiritual and their way of life filled with communal customs and rituals.

The largest indigenous group is the Nahua, descendants of the Aztecs. There are at least 1.7 million Nahuatl speakers. There are approximately 1 million Maya speakers, 500,000 Zapotecs, 500,000 Mixtecs, 260,000 Totonacs and 130,000 Purepechas.

I could be wrong, but I’m guessing part of Mr. F’s reason for erecting the sign is continuing anger and frustration over how the indigenous Mexican tribes have been treated in their homeland and, now (as he sees it), here. I’m not saying his sign is in any way constructive or helpful means in framing the immigration discussion. I am suggesting that his POV and perspective is uniquely his. His sign is his voice. It really has no ability to empower or persuade so, really, it’s not much of a threat. I’d say it’s a distraction from any constructive dialogue, and we’re being silly if we ascribe any real power to it.

Valley Girl,

I don’t really think we’re that far apart.

Northern Virginia has become a spiritual desert and in this sandstorm of cultural confusion, I’ve been trying to collect my thoughts on the issue.
I was born and raised in the Herndon/Reston area of Northern VA, with brief residencies in Mount Jackson and Richmond, I’ve also traveled in Europe and the Middle East. Having not lived in PWC I don’t have enough facts to have a valid opinion, but from what I can gage from the conversation, the Immigration problems of Fairfax are slightly different from PWC.
In Herndon in particular, an Immigrant community from South and Central America, both legal and illegal, came for the development jobs all booming all over NOVA. Herndon (and Sterling) still had affordable housing in the early 90’s and many Immigrants settled there. As we all know, the office development market slowed down but the housing values and market continued to expand. Many settled immigrants started looking for work in the landscaping/maintenance sector. Out of this rose Day Laborers, Overcrowding, Sanitation and some Gang problems.
In terms of Herndon, I find a lot of the arguments against Illegal Immigrants to be utter hypocrisy. The traditional line that pops up at least once every council meeting is thus;
“The Illegal Aliens have no respect for the laws of this country and no invested interest in our community. They are like locusts, they come into the area, drain all the money and ship it back to their home country, and they drain all the resources meant for the citizens. The Illegal Aliens spread disease, violence and rubbish; they want to turn Herndon into a third world country and when they are done ruining our standard of living they disappear back to Mexico or another community to do it all over again.”
Illegal Immigrants are not the only “Alien” force to invade Herndon. When I was growing up in Herndon, It was a quiet suburb with affordable housing and a strong sense of community. We actually knew our neighbors; hardly anyone had fences between properties and neighborhood BBQ’s were not unknown to happen in the summer. Around 1995 an influx of young middle class Americans (mostly White) came into Herndon in hopes of working in the budding dot com industries, weapons manufacturing and government contracting. It was during these years that the McMansions and Luxury gated condos were constructed. Practically every inch of open forest I used to play in as a kid was torn down to make redundant strip malls and four story townhouses. My neighbors who worked in the manufacturing sector moved out only to be replaced with families who never so much as bothered to ring our door bell and introduce themselves but quickly built fences to mark their territory. This Influx of white collar workers really have no investment in the community, they are looking to make as much money as possible sell their poorly constructed foofoo homes for 3 times what they are worth and hightail it out of town to retire in Florida (or Mexico). And where does this leave the invested citizens? In a concrete jungle devoid of community spirit and organic life, a community that cost’s ten times more to live in than it did when I was born into it and where the quality of life is measured in 401K.
Our past election results show that most residents of Herndon are completely apathetic to their town government, but as soon as their housing values lower they start to take notice. In Herndon a handful of manipulating “Social Control” advocates, using their skills in spinning and blogging were able to convince enough of the apathetic citizens that the “Illegal Aliens” were the source of their lowering housing values and quality of life. All but one member of the town council was voted out and replaced by “Reform” Candidates who have, to their credit, managed to re-affirm Herndon’s post 95 values where Quality of life is replaced by quality of material, moral values made subservient to housing values, an elitist utopia which now is preparing to fully clean the council and make way for total social control.
Blinded by greed, the white collar mob who blame “Alien” elements for ruining their lifestyle need only a simple mirror to see what has doomed our the next generation. We built too much, too fast, with no plan and no good heart. As I said, PWC seems to have a different type of problem than Fairfax, but I believe this statement holds true to every community… “If you build a community on hate, you will hate the community you build.”

“You do realize that Hispanics are KIA(Killed in Action) at a faster rate than African Americans, guess they didn’t get the memo that they should ‘destroy traditional American way-of-life.”

I commend those who have served or are serving in our armed forces, regardless of race, ethnicity, religion or national origin, and I have no problem whatsoever rewarding immigrants who do serve with expedited citizenship. But to your point: The largest ethnic group of KIA’s in every American war has been Caucasian, including Iraq. Therefore their KIA “rate” is still the highest. But what does this have to do with the May Day marches? Nothing. I didn’t mention anything about race. You did. You are using a liberal tactic of re-framing the argument, when you can’t address it. What I oppose is the political leanings of those who marched, and the socialist marxist idealogy that they want to impose on this country. You on this blog have never criticized MWB for their ties and support of EZLN, or their alignment with anarchist revolutionary groups. Your silence is consent for their actions, as far as I am concerned. You, who claims to be a “conservative’ should be very concerned about this.

Oh Ed…I don’t know where to begin with your post but let’s just say this:

Berkeley CA, San Fancisco…marxists and anarchists? LOL. Yeah – they sure do represent the ENTIRE nation. As for your claims on the Democratic party…well, no party is free of corruption. And if the Dems are marxists-anarchists, they are finely matched by the fascists of the Repubs.

“You’ve got a regular contributor who wants people arrested for political speech. She wants them arrested for wearing military clothing. She wants them arrested because they chose to exercise their Constitutionally protected right to bear arms for self-defense.”

She doesn’t want them arrested. She thinks the tone of their blog however is rather incindiary and prone to induce violence. The fact that you are all het up on her opinions and think this nation is at danger from being taken over by marxists & anarchists would be truly amusing, if it weren’t so sad.

Thanks, Bubba. I think people who harass and threaten and act violently SHOULD be arrested, however. GL fitst the bill in my estimation : ) That doesn’t mean it will happen, of course.

“you apparently do need to explain your behavior which obviously means you see some flaw in it.” No, YOU see some flaw in it so I explain it. Perhaps it will help you understand but I guess not. Oh well. I can’t MAKE you understand if you don’t want to.

“lower class” LMAO! Like I CARE what class you think I am from?

In fact,I am from a very “working class” family and proud of it. My mother’s side of the family was impoverished. I put myself through school and have worked hard for whatever I have. I think the snobbery and racism I see in this county are disgusting. So…..if you think that’s obnoxious, oh well.

BTW,I had a dream about Wally Covington last night. Does that make me higher class? : )

On the Chief:

http://luxuriouschoices.blogspot.com/2008/05/all-hail-chief.html

May Day ’round the world:

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=%22May+Day%22+celebrations&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

It’s a lot more than marxists and anarchists. Why are so many Americans afraid to do their own research? Some of it will support your particular bias (and we all have biases), others won’t. But what’s so awful about moving beyond our own comfort zones and learning a bit more about the global community, instead of focusing like a laser beam on how everything impacts our own zip codes?

We may not like all that we read, learn and hear when we put ourselves out there, but I guarantee we will come away wiser.

May Day is significant around the globe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_Day

Valley Girl,
Another eloquent post, thank you. I concur 100% with your synopsis. I have been thinking, in order to get to the solutions, first we must deal with the “problem”. People clearly have different points of view regarding what the issues are before us regarding immigration, whether it be legal or illegal. Maybe it would be helpful to take each “problem” and break it down til we can agree on some solutions to address each one.

Elena – absolutely – establish a mission, goals and objectives, and tehn a plan for making those goals and objectives a reality. The more you can clearly define your objectives, the easier you can craft actions to achieve them, complete with timelines, job assignments, all of which can be measured for success or failure. It’s basic organizational planning.

Causual observer – I actually think that words have the power to incite a great many things, both positive and negative.

You wrote:
“Then spend a few minutes watching Telemundo or any of the Spanish-language TV stations. Look at the actors, talk show hosts, game show contestants, news reporters and anchors. Notice anything? They are the privileged class, all of whom are descended from the Spanish.”

Haven’t you ever seen the great India Maria?

“but how do you accomplish this as no one has found a way to enforce housing issues without some support group claiming we’re targeting Latinos and threatening to sue.” SA, this IS a problem because you can’t define family. BUT there are building safety codes. If you have too many people living in a house, you can enforce it. There are choices.

1. Obviously, let the people know. It would be better to let them know BEFORE they buy or rent the house. And it would be best to let them know codes are enforced. Realtors should know better than to sell a 4 bedroom home to a 15 person family!

2. If they get cited and they are one family, they have the option of adding on. If they don’t have that option, they might have to move.

3. Affordable housing is the biggest obstacle. We need to advocate for more affordable housing if we don’t want crowding. We need to do it for OURSELVES as well unless we want to keep paying ridiculous prices just to live here!

BTW, how come it’s okay for GL and his clan to be obnoxious but it’s not for me? Is it that I’m female and I’m supposed to be nicer? : )

Valley Girl,
No, I hadn’t heard of her, but I googled:

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=%22India+Maria%22&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Wiki entry:

María Elena Velasco, better known as La India María or Maria Nicolasa (born 17 December 1940 Mexico, Puebla) is a famous Mexican actress and comedian, and one of Mexico’s few major female film directors. Not much about Velasco’s private life has been open to the public’s eye; she prefers to be seen by the public as the character she usually plays in her movies: that of a countryside Indian who tries to make the most with what she has.
Velasco has said publicly that she wants India María to represent Mexico’s poor social classes, and she has tried to carry out social messages in most of the movies she has made. The character she portrays is a typical southwestern Mexican Indian (her characters usually say they are from the State of Jalisco), dressed in traditional garb consisting of traditionally braided and ribboned hair, colorful native-type blouses and skirts. In her films, she often goes out of her way to speak at least a few lines in native languages, such as Chichimecan, Zapotecan or Nahuatlan.
Velasco invented the India María character in 1972 for Mexican TV network Telesistema Mexicano (now Televisa) for a comic segment of the weekly program Siempre en domingo. It quickly became a hit and in the same year, Velasco began starring in an enormously successful series of low budget comedies that became a mainstay in Mexican movie theaters through the mid 1980s.

She sounds like a terrific role model who has broken some barriers. How many others like her are there? I watched 10 minutes of a telenovela after my last post, and I didn’t see anyone one who looked even remotely like India Maria, I’m sorry to say. Every single man and woman I saw looked like the typical actor on a US soap.

Valley Girl, you have a lot to add to this dialog about solutions! I like the idea of seeking out the “go to” person and making them the point of contact for the exchange of accurate information.

I wish we had community centers, the way the UK has pubs (but without the alcohol) where you could go on the weekends to connect with people. The closest thing we have in the city is JE Rice (Tru Value hardware) or Tony’s Pizza, where you run into anybody who’s anybody and get the latest news. Churches do the job, but congregations tend to segregate and not everyone is Christian or religious. In my parents’ little town in Nebraska, it was the Legion Post or the firehouse, at least for men to gather. Sometimes I wish the elementary schools would open their gyms on the weekend, with help from volunteers.

I’m showing my age now, but I remember celebrating May Day in Minnesota as a child. We would make baskets out of cupcake papers and pipe cleaners and fill them with nuts and mints and leave them on neighbors’ front porches. And yes, the posts for the laundry line in the backyard became our May pole.

Rod2155 has accurately described some of the young professionals who don’t know how to be neighbors either. I call them “muters”. They get in their cars, go to work, come back home, use the electric control to open their garages, drive in, and disappear until the next morning when they drive out again. They don’t know how to say hi or make eye contact, if they’re out on the weekends, it’s on a riding lawn mower with an i-pod and sunglasses. When I walk, I have to watch out because they back out of their driveways without looking, and they nearly run me down if I’m crossing the street when they have to turn. I am simply in their way. They drive on neighborhood streets as if they are still on I66. I just want to say “snap out of it!” because they’re in a trance.

Casual Observer, May Day for me always meant the dance around the Maypole. Must be the Scandinavian background… (Although I’m sure some think of Socialism when they think of Scandinavian countries. ha ha)

Good points, Cindy! In our area, the only thing that substitutes for community centers are community houses, but those are subdivision specific and must be rented. Other meetings take place in schools, but there aren’t any town halls or such because many of us live in places that aren’t even towns. So it IS very divided and can make you feel isolated, especially if your neighbors are “muters.” LOL. I love that term! (Watch out, though. Someone will accuse you of name calling!)

Well, as a “muter” some of us have to make a living – and if getting up at 5:30 AM, on the road by 7, at work by 8….at the end of the day, commute back home at 4:30, pick the kids up at 5, endure 66 and 28 for the next hour…pull in at 6, make dinner for the family, put the kids to bed at 8, clean up and finally time for yourself at 9…fall asleep at 9:30 and re-do the whole shebang the following day…

Yeah – I guess you could say us “muters” are real insensitive, un-neighborly jerks. How dare we not make the neighborhood rounds and bake cookies for everyone on a weekly basis! At least, as Cindy states…WE MOW OUR LAWNS.

Pfft. But how dare we complain when on our drive down the street we have to play bumper cars with more landscaping vehicles than lawns…and more cars than one’s driveway, garage and street in front of the house can hold. And how dare we kvetch when the lawns we mow get overrun by weeds from our three-family neighbor household! Gee, and let’s not forget about wanting a fence to keep the neighbor’s pitt bulls away from our kids.

Yeah – us “muters” who work hard for a living, want a decent neighborhood in which to live and care for our property are such troublemakers and WASPs – we’re the real problem.

It sure would be nice to sit around the neighborhood all day and have the time to socialize, but some of us have to work – and commute long distances so we can be paid a decent salary and afford the homes you think are so ugly.

Pfft.

Casual Observer, May Day for me always meant the dance around the Maypole. Must be the Scandinavian background… (Although I’m sure some think of Socialism when they think of Scandinavian countries. ha ha)

My older kids’ had an elementary school teacher who used to teach the kids the Maypole Dance, which they would perform during the annual Mother’s Day Tea. The Maypole was beautifully constructed, and the kids spent weeks learning the complicated dance. Sadly, my youngest wasn’t able to do this when she had this teacher, because the SOL curriculum didn’t allow enough free time in the schedule for those type of “fun” activities.

But that’s a different rant all together.

CindyB said:

I wish we had community centers, the way the UK has pubs (but without the alcohol) where you could go on the weekends to connect with people.

To which I’m forced to respond, what fun is a pub without the beer? You can’t get a good neighborly sing-a-long going without a few pints in ya.

Casual Observer,
“To which I’m forced to respond, what fun is a pub without the beer? You can’t get a good neighborly sing-a-long going without a few pints in ya. ”

This reminds me of an email I got earlier today.

It said beer is now cheaper than gas. Drink don’t drive

Which makes me think of the scene from “Back to the Future” when Doc comes back from the future and pours a can of beer into the car’s fuel compartment along with the can and a banana peel.

Wait, that’s fuel from food, too.

wow kg,

guess I really hit a nerve I honestly do think you have no class, that is my opinion of course, take it or leave it. I think you are a pretty disgusting person and on the off chance GL gets arrested I hope you are there with him and share the same cell. people like you inflame the issue and cloud it with crap, then you get people like kenneth whipped up and away we go. oh, and your poetry sucks by the way.

oh, and I know plenty of people who were brought up “working class” who have plenty of class and are outstanding members of polite society. Go back into the hole you crawled out of so people can really discuss the issues as they want instead of listening to belligerent, blunt and low-class people such as your self.

“Wait, that’s fuel from food, too.”

LOL, you just put a spoke in my mouse cage. I was just thinking, hey, what about alcohol for fuel..

One thing I find interesting to note is that many people are so upset becauses home values have fallen since the foreclosure/immigration exodus began. What they don’t seem to remember, though, is that the only reason the home prices went so high was because the homes were being sold at ridiculously high prices to unqualified buyers and illegal immigrants. The prices were artificially inflated. Without those buyers, the prices would never have gone so high. So even if those people HADN’T bought or moved in, you wouldn’t be looking at any difference in the price now in my opinion, because the prices wouldn’t have gone that high in the first place. If NO unqualified buyers or illegal immigrants had purchased, there would have been no buyers for those homes to drive the prices up. So, in my opinion, the people that are upset about the loss in value aren’t recognizing that the prices should NEVER have gone that high to begin with. I live in a 1970’s split level that I bought in 2000 for $200K…when houses nearby were going for $250, I couldn’t believe it!!!! I thought those people were crazy to buy such an old, unspectacular house at that price! When people started paying close to a half million, I really almost had a stroke! Yes, my home has now depreciated to a much lower level than at the top of the market, but it IS a realistic price for the house and neighborhood…still more than I would want to pay for it!

Sorry I hit a nerve, Bubba. I worked for two corporations in McLean and muted with the best of them. Worst mute ever was the day the plane went down in the Potomac during a snowstorm. Second worst mute – carpooling all the way to work and then someone got out of their car to tell us our tire was almost off!

please let me use this space to re-post a comment that was not posted on BVBL, since I am amoung the many proud that have been banned.

The latest over there is a call to report all illegal immigration to ICE via e-mail, which judging by the last post that actually appears doesn’t even work.

Apparently some loyal posters there have a hard time believing that ICE would allow an illegal immigrant to apply for a work permit:

Loudoun said on 2 May 2008 at 3:41 pm:
AnonforNow – you are sadly mistaken if you think ICE is giving applications to illegal aliens. Provide us all with the proof that ICE is aiding and abetting illegal aliens – they would then be in violation of federal law.

What a joke!

My response which does not appear is this:

TheProofIsInThePudding said on 2 May 2008 at 5:28 pm:
Loudoun Times Mirror

Arrested Lansdowne workers released by ICE

http://loudountimes.com/news/2008/apr/22/arrested-lansdowne-workers-released-ice/

Its true – they were given instructions to fill out form I-765, though there were no garauntees it would be approved.

So carry on, call ICE. Let them spend loads of your tax dollars apprehending folks, only to release them because the truth is they don’t have the BED SPACE!!!

Anyway, hopefully one of Loudoun’s friends will let him know that proof is not welcome at BVBL but he can find it over here.

Valley Girl said on 2 May 2008 at 5:35 pm:

please let me use this space to re-post a comment that was not posted on BVBL, since I am amoung the many proud that have been banned.

Your post *is* on BVBL. I can see it quite clearly.

The problem with the sign is that it keeps people riled up. It is in your face and drags people into the fray who otherwise would be going about their every day business.

I believe Mr. Fernandez is probably a nice man but he has been ill advised and what he is doing is not in the best interest of peace and harmony in the Manassas area.

It angers people who might not ordinarily be angry. We don’t need more angry people, we need fewer. I am one of those people who feel if words and statements are rude for one group of people, then they are just as rude for another group. I rarely use the word racist but that sign is getting pretty close.

Moon-howler said on 2 May 2008 at 5:54 pm:

DING DING DING! Best post of the day!

MH

I agree. I recall a good saying I heard once it went like tihs…. “If I won’t tolerate it about you, I won’t tolerate it from you”

I don’t believe that feeling disenfranchised gives you more rights than others. Never have.

I do believe in good manners as a general rule for just about everything in life. I don’t think the sign is good manners.

kgotthardt said on 2 May 2008 at 11:56 am:
“you apparently do need to explain your behavior which obviously means you see some flaw in it.” No, YOU see some flaw in it so I explain it. Perhaps it will help you understand but I guess not. Oh well. I can’t MAKE you understand if you don’t want to.
“lower class” LMAO! Like I CARE what class you think I am from?
In fact,I am from a very “working class” family and proud of it. My mother’s side of the family was impoverished. I put myself through school and have worked hard for whatever I have. I think the snobbery and racism I see in this county are disgusting. So…..if you think that’s obnoxious, oh well.
BTW,I had a dream about Wally Covington last night. Does that make me higher class? : )

Kenneth said – yes, you are as high class as they come K…..you are a class act…….BUT, i want to know more about these dreams. Were you chasing wally with a pitchfork? or what!!! KR

es_la_ley,

I just wanted to say AGAIN, it is so NICE to see you here
Juturna,
“I agree. I recall a good saying I heard once it went like tihs…. “If I won’t tolerate it about you, I won’t tolerate it from you””

I think you know how I love those sayings
”
Kenneth Reynolds,

Kenneth said – yes, you are as high class as they come K…..you are a class act…….BUT, i want to know more about these dreams. Were you chasing wally with a pitchfork? or what!!! KR”

Thanks for the giggle.

With all the name calling and finger pointing,it reminds me of this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDd4Ly9cD4c

and if that OFFENDED anyone

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yh9cNYlmXEY

Happy Friday

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99HdRxlJzV4

I didn’t mean to post the last link ( chose the Simpson version) opps…

I can say I am sorry for that

kgotthardt,

Sorry, I didn’t mean to leave you out hah hah

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mvhch9xlf8U

“Were you chasing wally with a pitchfork? or what!!! KR” LOL! No, he was talking about something and was giving me some papers. I kept saying to myself, Okay. There’s Wally Covington. I’m talking to Wally Covington. I know this is a dream, and it’s one of my strange ones. Any minute now I will wake up and…..

Wally shouldn’t worry. I’ve dreamt about Richard Nixon and Ralph Nader as well. Don’t ask.

Heee heee heeee….thanks for the 80’s flashback, Red! The song is much more romantic than my dream about Wally, however……and thank GOD FOR THAT! LOL.

kgotthardt,

I’d rather dream about dreams in the mist than 800 lb gorillas in the mist..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sy_7OeoZCQY

Valley Girl,

It sounds like a reprieve has been granted. Lucky you.

Did you apply for absolution?

es_la_ley – Thanks, I guess I get banned randomly and when I do I can see them (my posts) on my screen but others tell me they can’t.

good to know, good to know.

“So, in my opinion, the people that are upset about the loss in value aren’t recognizing that the prices should NEVER have gone that high to begin with. ”

You couldn’t be more wrong if you tried. I’ll be the FIRST (and I know I’m not the only one) to say our home wasn’t worth the 550K it was valued at a year or two ago.

We’re not pissed the market was inflated and fell – we’re pissed so many unqualified people were given mortgages! And in teh case of my neighborhood that IS the Latinos! Every SINGLE foreclosure, pre-foreclosure and bank-owned home was mortgaged to a Latino. We’ve done the research on RealtyTrac and county records. Illegal, legal – irrelevant.

Not Me, Bubba,
I agree with what you are saying. Here is the thing, there was a market for the right person at the right time to get screwed…who is to blame?
Who was the grantor and the grantee of such a situation?

Bubba wrote:

We’re not pissed the market was inflated and fell – we’re pissed so many unqualified people were given mortgages! And in teh case of my neighborhood that IS the Latinos! Every SINGLE foreclosure, pre-foreclosure and bank-owned home was mortgaged to a Latino. We’ve done the research on RealtyTrac and county records. Illegal, legal – irrelevant.

Well, in my zip 20112, the majority of foreclosures happened one of two ways:

1. People in good standing refinanced a few years ago to take advantage of lower rates. Mortgage broker tells them their house has appreciated to a ridiculous amount (ours tried to tell us our house was worth $750K), so why not take out an HELOC and put in that inground pool, buy a car, take the family to Disney World? I know many people who drew equity out of their homes like it was an ATM. Now, they’re screwed because banks are calling those HELOCs because any equity they had is gone.

2. People (not just Latinos) got greedy, and bought way beyond their means and ability to pay. $1 million dollar houses shot up like dandelions in my zip code, and the people buying them were people just like my spouse and me (only we weren’t that stupid). The were selling their existing homes, and using the equity to buy up to the $1 million home. Of course, the only way they could qualify was to go 1-, 2-, or 3-year adjustable ARM, interest only. Now, those ARMS are re-setting, and folks can’t convert their loans because that $1 million home is only worth about $700K. Oops. And need I remind you that interest-only means no equity? Ever drive by those homes? Look through the windows of their spacious solariums — and you’ll see they were barely furnished because the homeowners were house poor. As bad as I feel for these families, I’ve been pretty sure all along that the only people who should be buying $1 million homes in PWC would, d’oh, be millionaires! And they weren’t; in fact, they were very far from it.

Valley Girl said on 2 May 2008 at 8:53 pm:

es_la_ley – Thanks, I guess I get banned randomly and when I do I can see them (my posts) on my screen but others tell me they can’t.

You guess you get banned randomly? C’mon! Don’t you think that’s reaching just a little? Do you think there’s a little wizard behind a curtain over there that “randomly” pulls or delays posts? And what about the “others”? Do you have “others” that follow you over there just to see if your posts show up? Just asking!

Look, you posted over there at 5:28. Seven minutes later (5:35) you were here saying “please let me use this space to re-post a comment that was not posted on BVBL, since I am amoung [sic] the many proud that have been banned”, when it was CLEARLY POSTED there.

The “many proud”? Yep! You’re looking for a badge of honor. But you don’t get one by making stuff up.

rod2155 said on 2 May 2008 at 10:54 am:

Welcome Rod,
I really enjoyed reading your post. Very thoughtful ideas from a unique perspective.

es_la_ley said on 2 May 2008 at 9:37 pm:

In all likelihood, Valley Girl is in moderation, which means Greg must manually approve her comments. Now having some experience with this blog, there actually can be a “little wizard” controlling exactly who posts. We don’t have anyone in moderation, but Greg clearly does. I was one of them, as were many others.

Ley,
The same thing happened to me back when I used to dip my toe into the bvbl waters. I’d post something, see it, then it would vanish. Happened three or four times. Once, when I complained about my post being removed, it was back up ten minutes later.

He definitely plays with posts. It’s one big cluster* over there.

Been there, done that with benefit of doubt…that is WHY I am here.

kgotthardt said on 2 May 2008 at 7:12 pm:
“Were you chasing wally with a pitchfork? or what!!! KR” LOL! No, he was talking about something and was giving me some papers. I kept saying to myself, Okay. There’s Wally Covington. I’m talking to Wally Covington. I know this is a dream, and it’s one of my strange ones. Any minute now I will wake up and…..
Wally shouldn’t worry. I’ve dreamt about Richard Nixon and Ralph Nader as well. Don’t ask.

K – DONT ASK?? DONT ASK??? DONT ASK? NOW YOU HAVE REALLY PIQUED MY INTEREST…………..DO YOU REALIZE HOW HARD IT WILL BE FOR ME NOT TO GET TO THE BOTTOM OF YOUR DREAMS!!!!

es_la_ley, Valley Girl’s experience is not unique. It’s happened to many of us.

es_la_ley,

Censored bybvbl is correct. The general readership doesn’t know it either. People disappear. Unless you are in touch with people outside the blog, you never know what became of them.

To all those who have been blocked or at least moderated at times:
Don’t you find it extremely odd that krutis has never disappeared? What does that tell us?

Let me take a moment to thank the OTHER. Were so many people not made to ‘cease to exist,’ this blog would have probably never come into being, at least not as the politically motivated blog that it is.

I think most people feel comfortable here. At least I hope so. Those who don’t have let us all know. I do think that people, if civil, can exchange ideas without feeling threatened.

I would say that this is one case where a certain blogger overplayed his hand. Too much playing God can get you fierce opposition. He was really on a roll until he just got too big for his britches.

Blog on!!

Moon-howler,

I was getting concerned about Krutis. I hadn’t seen her posting in awhile. I see she is back in business though

I reiterate: How come the most outageous ‘liberal’ has not been thrown off, like some of the more moderate people have been. Does anyone else suspect that she might just be one of the multiple personalities?

Noooo, say it isn’t so. You mean one person posts as others????!!!

So it appears that Mr. Principi got exactly what he originally asked for. .97 and a change to the resolution.

I am still distressed about those elderly folks who have to prove their status to continue to get meals on wheels.

elvis said on 2 May 2008 at 5:24 pm:
wow kg,
guess I really hit a nerve I honestly do think you have no class, that is my opinion of course, take it or leave it. I think you are a pretty disgusting person and on the off chance GL gets arrested I hope you are there with him and share the same cell. people like you inflame the issue and cloud it with crap, then you get people like kenneth whipped up and away we go. oh, and your poetry sucks by the way.
oh, and I know plenty of people who were brought up “working class” who have plenty of class and are outstanding members of polite society. Go back into the hole you crawled out of so people can really discuss the issues as they want instead of listening to belligerent, blunt and low-class people such as your self.

Kenneth said – NOT SCREEAMED….HOW DO YOU KNOW K GOT ME ALL ‘WHIPPED UP”,,,,,HUMMMMTHAT SOUNDS LIKE FUN!!!

Moon-howler said on 3 May 2008 at 2:55 pm:
I reiterate: How come the most outageous ‘liberal’ has not been thrown off, like some of the more moderate people have been. Does anyone else suspect that she might just be one of the multiple personalities?

KENNETH SAID (NOT SCREAMED) – WHY DO YOU SAY ‘OUTRAGEOUS LIBERAL’? YOU DO KNOW THAT LIBERAL MEANS ‘FREE’, THAT’S RIGHT….FFREE!!

Juturna said on 3 May 2008 at 3:25 pm:
Noooo, say it isn’t so. You mean one person posts as others????!!!
So it appears that Mr. Principi got exactly what he originally asked for. .97 and a change to the resolution.
I am still distressed about those elderly folks who have to prove their status to continue to get meals on wheels.

KENNETH SAID – LET US HOPE THAT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE KIND ENOUGH TO DELIVER THE MEALS ON WHEELS WOULD GIVE THE FINGER TO ANYONE (E.G. COREY ET AL) WHO SAID THEY HAD TO ASK FOR PAPERS!!! I WONDER HOW MANY ELDERLY,CLOUDY SENIORS KNOW WHAT PAPERS ARE AND WHERE THERE’S ARE!!

Juturna said on 3 May 2008 at 3:25 pm:
Noooo, say it isn’t so. You mean one person posts as others????!!!
So it appears that Mr. Principi got exactly what he originally asked for. .97 and a change to the resolution.
I am still distressed about those elderly folks who have to prove their status to continue to get meals on wheels.

KENNETH SAID NOT SCREAMED…..GOD BLESS FRANK PRINCIPI….A COMBINATION OF GUTS AND BRAINS……WE NEED MORE PEOPLE LIKE HIM GOVERNING THE COUNTY

LOL! “Gorillas in the room and in the mist”….”ban” those kinds of dreams!

Ken, it would take a little time to explain the Nixon dream. I had it when I was like five years old but I remember it so clearly. Nader was more recent and not nearly as exciting as the Nixon escapade.

“I am still distressed about those elderly folks who have to prove their status to continue to get meals on wheels.” Are they doing this already?

kgotthardt,

This is my new nickname 4 you…giggle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk4qeCT-RFk

LOL! Hey thanks! I love that song!!

You got me on a roll with music from the 70’s!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxeQIX5tFYw&feature=related

Elena, Casual Observer, Red Dawn, Censored bybvbl, Moon-howler:

Okay, 5 to 1 against me. I’ll concede based on your experiences.

# Red Dawn said on 3 May 2008 at 12:51 pm:

I was getting concerned about Krutis. I hadn’t seen her posting in awhile. I see she is back in business though

I was concerned for her as well, but as you said sheees baaaack! Tough gal. We never see eye-to-eye, but I like her a lot.

Kenneth,

dont you know how to type? there’s a key called “CAPS” It’s on your keyboard. turn it off and use the shift key for capital letters idiot.

es_la_ley said on 3 May 2008 at 5:48 pm:

Es,

We can’t all be right all the time

es_la_ley,

If she is real, she is to be admired. How old would you guess she is?

July 1 is when the county services are stopped.

Let’s fight! : )

Moon-howler said on 3 May 2008 at 8:40 pm:

es_la_ley,

If she is real, she is to be admired. How old would you guess she is?

Krutis? I believe she’s 80+. I hope to have her wit and fervor when I get at that age.

Elvis,
tsk tsk, not nice to call names and not necessary. I think Kenneth does his comments in caps to differentiate what he is saying as opposed to what his quoting. I, along with a few others, still have not mastered the block quoting trick!

Elena said on 3 May 2008 at 7:49 pm:

Es, We can’t all be right all the time

Ain’t that the truth!

Oh I agree, es! I should be so lucky. She is sharp as a tack.

Hey Elvis…don’t be dissing my pal Kenneth!

kgotthardt said on 3 May 2008 at 4:43 pm:
LOL! “Gorillas in the room and in the mist”….”ban” those kinds of dreams!
Ken, it would take a little time to explain the Nixon dream. I had it when I was like five years old but I remember it so clearly. Nader was more recent and not nearly as exciting as the Nixon escapade.

KENNETH SAID (NOT SCREAMED) …… WHAT COULD HAVE BEEEN EXCITING ABOUT NIXON….ESP WHEN YOU WERE ONLY 5!!! IT IS IMPORTANT FOR YOUR WELFARE AND THOSE AROUND YOU THAT SOME OF US ON THE BLOG ANALYZE YOUR DREAMS AND GIVE YOU OUR PROFESSIONAL OPINIONS …..AND IT WONT COST YOU ANYTHING!!!

elvis said on 3 May 2008 at 6:43 pm:
Kenneth,
dont you know how to type? there’s a key called “CAPS” It’s on your keyboard. turn it off and use the shift key for capital letters idiot.

KENNETH SAID (NOT SCREAMED)…..YOU DO HAVE A WAY WITH WORDS DUM-DUM!!!I ALREADY TOLD YOU WY I USE CAPS…..SOMEONE SHOULD READ IT TO YOU!! I SIMPLY USE THEM TO HIGHLIGHT MY COMMENTS ON OTHERS THOUGHTS AND NON-THOUGHTS, SUCH AS YOURS!!

Juturna said on 3 May 2008 at 8:42 pm:
July 1 is when the county services are stopped.

KENNETH SAID ………WOW THAT IS ALMOST UNBELIEVABLE JUTURNA……IT TOOK A WHOLE YEAR TO PUT SUCH A WORTHLESS PRACTICE INTO PLAY………..WHAT AE COUNTY PEOPLE SUPPOSED TO DO? MAKE COPIES OF BIRTH CERTIFICATES? OR KEEP THE ORIGINALS JUST IN CASE!! HOHOHOHO……AND DOES EVERYONE FORGET, THERE IS A BIG FAKE ID OPERATION GOING ON EVERYWHERE…… SO MAYBE THE COUNTY SHOULD SEND ALL THE DOCS TO THE FBI FOR OFFICIAL VERIFICATION…….I DONT WANT NONE OF DOS PEOPLE STEALING MY HARD EARNED TAX DOLLARS……..THEY CAIN’T FOOL ME!!!

Elena said on 3 May 2008 at 9:26 pm:
Elvis,
tsk tsk, not nice to call names and not necessary. I think Kenneth does his comments in caps to differentiate what he is saying as opposed to what his quoting. I, along with a few others, still have not mastered the block quoting trick!

KENNETH SAID ..THANK YOU ELENA…I AM IN GOOD COMPANY!!!

Kenneth Reynolds said on 4 May 2008 at 12:02 am:

Now Kenneth, in order to be seen as fair, I have to say tsk tsk for calling Elvis dum dum, and you are welcome

Children, children, children…..stop calling each other names, now. It’s my job to call names (that suit them) and get bashed, so please let me keep my job, okay?

Now that I’ve got that out of my system, I will have some “couch time with Ken.”

Sniff. I was only 5. My parents were watching the news every night. Watergate. “I’m not a crook!” I kept picturing a big damn. How did I know it was a hotel? Then, one night….oh it was horrible! There he was, Richard Nixon, hovering over my front yard in a helicopter, lowering down a rope ladder, climbing down…..to KIDNAP me!

Thank you, Ken, for asking me to tell you that. I feel healed. (Sniff…)

well who determines what suits them? you? you should have qualified that remark to say “it’s my job to call names that I BELIEVE suits them and get bashed”

you deserve to be called names KG, you think an awful lot of yourself and I’m not sure if’s a deranged sort of self-esteem issue or you have delusions of grandeur.

just a belligerent fool who uses the word “blunt” to describe her asinine behaviour.

kgotthardt said on 4 May 2008 at 8:08 am:
Children, children, children…..stop calling each other names, now. It’s my job to call names (that suit them) and get bashed, so please let me keep my job, okay?
Now that I’ve got that out of my system, I will have some “couch time with Ken.”
Sniff. I was only 5. My parents were watching the news every night. Watergate. “I’m not a crook!” I kept picturing a big damn. How did I know it was a hotel? Then, one night….oh it was horrible! There he was, Richard Nixon, hovering over my front yard in a helicopter, lowering down a rope ladder, climbing down…..to KIDNAP me!
Thank you, Ken, for asking me to tell you that. I feel healed. (Sniff…)

KENNETH SAID NOT SCREAMED …..K WE HAVE ONLY SCRATCHED THE SURFACE…….WE NEED MUCH MORE TIME TO LOOK AT THESE MATTERS…..