Foot Soldiers On the Move
The Board will have both a 2:oopm session today; and comments concerning the funding of the ‘Immigration Resolution’ should be addressed then as there is no evening session. Everyone should be prepared for the ‘foot soldiers’ to once again descend on the McCoart building. Hopefully, the Supervisors won’t retreat and will have the courage to face this head-on. It’s gone on long enough and there’s simply no money to fund this whole thing.
Here’s the agenda for the meeting.
See you there.
Dear Supervisors,
I beg you, please do not cower at the sight of the mob today. We, the citizens of the county, do not want you to think that these HSM extremists and their misguided followers represent the majority. It’s just not true. Please exercise your judgment and do what is right. Stand together–the six of you–and do not act in fear of this mob. We promise you that in the next election, we will be there to help you win your elections. We will stand with you if they try to assassinate your character. We will come to your defense. We do not want to be part of their imaginary war game. Truly save Prince William County and rescind the resolution.
You know, maybe it’s time to take a page from Greg’s playbook and establish our own grassroots movement just as this blog as been created as a counter to BVBL. We’ve got a good video that shows just how to go about starting your own movement (with step-by-step instructions). How about “Help Restore Prince William County”?
Thanks for letting us know.
Supervisors, please listen. Don’t fall into groupthink and listen to your Chairs. Don’t let the minority ruin our county and threaten our safety. Please do not fund this resolution. Find a way that is not costly, that puts neighborhoods first, that creates an environment of peace and equality, and that ends this culture war raging through our county.
Thank you.
My email to the BOCS:
____________________________
Dear Supervisors:
Please listen to fiscal conservatives and human rights advocates asking you to find a rational, helpful solution to the problems in this county. Don’t fall into groupthink. Don’t let the minority ruin our county and threaten our safety.
Please do not fund this resolution. Find a way that is not costly, that puts neighborhoods first, that creates an environment of peace and equality, and that ends this culture war raging through our county.
You will be more respected in the long run if you do not support this resolution and instead support residents and constituents who want to make a positive difference. And your courage to do the right thing will be publicly acknowledged.
Thank you.
Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt
There is only an afternoon session today, not an evening session. If you want to speak, definitely come at 2:00. There is a good chance the Board will still be in the afternoon session at 7:30, however.
the minority? what are you talking about the “minority” the bulk of the county wanted this resolution and they voted for it! Come on, the only one in the “minority” is YOU!!
Reporting from the McCoart Building: The sign-up for Citizens’ Time suggest that it will last at least 3-4 hours. Please come speak up about the Immigration Resolution. This is it, the moment of truth.
1 County Complex Court
Prince William, VA 22192
information: 703-792-6600
Just got back. Thank God I got there early enough to speak early!
Now I have an important MWB question that was brought up by someone I had a casual conversation with. She says MWB literally wants no borders….they want the freedom to roam back and forth between countries. I was surprised to hear this. This was the first time I had actually heard this. Is this true?
kgotthardt,
Here is the link to thier website.
http://mexicanossinfronteras.org/
“She says MWB literally wants no borders….they want the freedom to roam back and forth between countries. I was surprised to hear this. This was the first time I had actually heard this. Is this true?”
Yes, it’s true. MWB is part of the larger group advocating the “reconquista”. They believe that the treaty which ended the Mexican American war has been violated, and is therefore null and void. Greg’s claims that MWB is part of EZLN are true. MWB’s ties to the “reconquista” effort are real. Do a little research. You will see for yourself.
KG
Nice job at the BOCS meeting.
kgotthardt,
I heard you speak and thought you were terrific. I was happy to hear your remarks to Mr. Stewart. Thank you. I could not stay for what will no doubt be several hours, so I hope updates will be posted.
There’s a little colored EZLN cartoon right on their webpage.
Kgotthardt,
Nice job. I squirmed in my seat on behalf of Corey (Mr. Meet and Greet as they come in the door) Stewart.
I believe that MWB or at least the leadership believes there should be no borders. I don’t think the rank and file member probably cares. That is one reason so many people do not embrace this group. I certainly would not.
RealWorld,
you can listen live here
http://www.co.prince-william.va.us/bocs/audio/default.htm
or watch it on channel 23 on Comcast
Kgotthardt, I heard you speak and you stated your points in an eloquent manner.
Its true, MWB advocates for no North American borders. I have spoken directly with Mr. John Steinbeck who is a member and advocate for MWB. He stated to me that neither he nor his organization believe in borders. He stated that people should be able come and go as they please.
Wow! Thanks for listening to my schpeil. BOY does that kind of thing make me nervous. I always come out of those meetings with a headache that I gave MYSELF! Somehow, Channels 7 and 9 got me outside after. Did this happen to anyone else?
Now, theoretically, I can understand where the “no-borders” idea comes from. However, this isn’t pragmatic in my mind. If this were ever to happen, it would have to be AFTER we have made significant progress in the area of immigration reform here and nationally. I think it’s kind of jumping the gun to try to move from domestic immigration reform to open borders, never mind the security risks involved. And I think if we could get the immigration issues in our country straightened out, the folks who want to come and go would have an easier time doing so without being hassled. It would be great to have one, big, happy North American Union (and indeed, world), BUT I don’t see it in our near future. My goal would be to take baby steps and just make PWC less of a war ground than it is now. Then, deal with state and national. While we are doing this, though, we need to ask the Mexican Consulate to help get visas straightened out for their folks who are in paperwork limbo here, as many of them are.
Red Dawn, thanks for the link but it’s all in Spanish. : ) My translation isn’t that good.
Think European Union and free trade. In today’s world, with modern communications, technology, and transportation, borders are a joke. (IMHO) we should follow the EU model of evolving to a common currency, free trade, and open borders so people can go where the work is and goods and services may be driven by the market.
Borders (as we know them) are an artifact of another time. They will go away eventually (think Berlin wall on a meta-scale) whether we like it or not. I’m in the camp that embraces a move to free trade so that the entire world’s standard of living improves.
For those really interested in this idea, suggest you check out the Cato Institute, a free trade think Libraterian tank that advises the President and Congress regularly, at http://www.cato.org. For those of you in Economics, suggest you brush up on Adam Smith.
kgotthardt,
And, I saw you on Channel 7, sounding like the voice of reason. Clearly they waited to interview you because you gave such a clear, eloquent statement. PLUS, you got as much air time as Mr. L, who probably sought them out and didn’t look nearly as nice as you did. Great job.
kgotthardt,
I think there is someway to translate the page. Maybe someone knows. I thought found a translated page and can’t find it..urgggg..
Red Dawn said on 29 Apr 2008 at 6:50 pm:
I think there is someway to translate the page. Maybe someone knows. I thought found a translated page and can’t find it..urgggg..
Google can do it for you, but it’s not a perfect translation. Try…
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fmexicanossinfronteras.org%2F&langpair=es%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
es_la_ley,
Thank you! I think you helped me out once before with that
Purple,
That sound too much like the NAU to me.
Bob Wills! I love it
Red Dawn said on 29 Apr 2008 at 7:14 pm:
“Bob Wills! I love it”
He spoke well. Passionate. I loved how he pointed his finger at Stewart and told him not to point fingers at others. Delicious irony.
Red Dawn
You know, I was laughing at you about Mr. Wills but after hearing him rip into one of our supervisors over threatment of county employees, I think you might be on to something.
Actually, a county employee might very well have a grievance for a public reprimand.
I heard that rousing cheer for Mr. Wills from my living room.
Threatment?
He is a character for sure, he cracks me up….
es_la_ley,
Elected officials are fair game. Heat and kitchen correlation.
County employees should not be admonished from the dais. Low class. If there is an issue, there is an appropriate way to handle it that doesn’t include public reprimand and finger pointing.
Actually, it was pretty much a threatment. However, oh wise typo police, I intended to write treatment.
kgotthardt took her medication this evening for sure. the person I saw speaking and the person typing in these blogs are not the same, unless she has her kids typing for her or something (ghost blogger?)
Moon-howler said on 29 Apr 2008 at 7:26 pm:
Elected officials are fair game. Heat and kitchen correlation.
No, I was questioning “threatment”. Never saw that word. Is that “threat” + “treatment”? Definitely a good coinage!
[Nonetheless, I agree with ya.]
Purple:
The EU didn’t eliminate borders. EU member nations are still that-sovereign nations. What the EU does allow is the free movement of labor across borders. Member nations still control their borders and still control who can and cannot enter their nations. See http://ec.europa.eu/justice_home/fsj/immigration/fsj_immigration_intro_en.htm. There is a *big* difference between free movement of labor and the dissolution of national boundaries and sovereignty.
MSF has a different goal–no borders and a full assault on the concept of sovereignty. It is the reflection of the idea that anywhere there is a Mexican, there is Mexico. This is an affront to US sovereignty and our rights as a nation.
MSF is a fringe group. Using them as the spokesman for the “anti-resolution” is brilliant stroke. It’s a classic move. Pick the most extreme opponent so that more reasonable folk get lumped in with them as extremists. It makes you look like the reasonable choice.
Well, Citizen Time is over, and all I can say is where did all the Spanish speakers go? The place looked like little Mexico last year. Now you have to admit that the meeting was much more civil without all the banners, T-shirts, and signs plastered all around as happened before. This was as a community meeting as it should be. Agitators be gone for good!
We probably saved several hundred dollars on translators alone!
Take That, Principi!
What does it mean with a tie vote? Are they coming back to it after the break?
SA the meeting was more civil because the haters weren’t there…at least when I was there anyway.
I didn’t see myself on Channel 7, thank goodness. But glad I looked better than GL. LOL. You guys, thank you for the support.
BTW who is Mr. Wills?
kgotthardt,
SMILE, your on candid camera…here is the link to Channel 7.
http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0408/514271.html?ref=home
Bob Wills is a citizen that give the BOCS hell and me entertainment.
Red Dawn said on 29 Apr 2008 at 8:34 pm:
“What does it mean with a tie vote? Are they coming back to it after the break?”
The only tie I saw was about adding funds for the cameras. I didn’t understand that either (9 voters with a tie?).
Principi’s motion was shot down dead. He was the only “aye” vote, Yes!!!!!!!!
there are only 8 supervisors, es la ley.
es_la_ley,
Yes, the real estate levy and adding cameras.
9 votes? I hate being stuck to this one speaker computer….wish I had Comcast for these moments.
I’m just getting psud-jazz music and the notification they are in recess or are in closed meeting.
So what was the result so far?
Jo Blow said on 29 Apr 2008 at 8:53 pm:
there are only 8 supervisors, es la ley.
Good call! I stand corrected.
Actually, GL is a cool, goodlooking dude. He did a great job. Very eloquent, and to the point.
Oh, there’s mi amiga Maribel. Dude, you still pretending to be the daughter of a Cuban immigrant?
maribel said on 29 Apr 2008 at 9:37 pm:
Actually, GL is a cool, goodlooking dude. He did a great job. Very eloquent, and to the point.
Kenneth said - Beauty is in the eye of the beholder….as is ugly!!
What is going on at the meeting…they recessed…and didnt come back on camera? either they are having an illegal meeting (w/o sunshine) or someone turned off channel 23 so they could do everything in the dark…something is rotten in McCoart……at 10 pm…..tme for Law and Order..robin williams
maribel,
Guess it depends what you’re looking for. Thanks for my laugh of the day.
Wow, first the namecalling, now making fun of people’s looks. You all are seriously running out of material here. Not much else to do when you’ve suddenly become irrelevant, is there?
I’m done talking to you boring housewives. Time to celebrate.
Way to go, BOCS!!!!!
97 cents No more probable cause. Every single person will be checked if they are arrested.
Hopefully this will put the probable cause and discrimination worries to rest. This passed unanimously so even Principi was in agreement.
Does this sound satisfactory to most people? I think it just might!
So, since you have yet again failed to get the resolution rescinded, what now? Hey, have another party at some joint that is crying because all of their illegal alien customers are now eating in Fairfax. Pertend like you didn’t know that you are supporting the agenda of a declared Marxist group (MWB) who is aligned with anarchists. This is what the majority of citizens in PWC want. When are you going to get the message?
Didn’t sound like a big deal, but it is a big change. Must arrest, real miranda—so just checking to check is out!
Concerned Citizen said on 29 Apr 2008 at 10:17 pm:
“Pertend like you didn’t know that you are supporting the agenda of a declared Marxist group (MWB) who is aligned with anarchists.”
CC, that sounds so silly. First of all, so WHAT if a group is aligned with Marxists and anarchists? Isn’t this a free country? And what does it mean to you to be aligned with groups like that who have no political power per se?
All the supporters I know of a practical, rational, comprehensive and compassionate stance towards immigrants are not concerned with political parties.
Do I understand this correctly… everyone’s immigration status will be checked but only if they are arrested? Not for traffic violations, broken tail lights, etc.
So how would I (a natural born citizen prove that I was a legal US citizen? If I recall correctly, US citizens aren’t required to carry ID or even have a birth certificate.
“so WHAT if a group is aligned with Marxists and anarchists” Firedancer, I can’t believe you actually said that! Now I’d like to see your ID. That’s about as anti-American as I have ever heard. America wouldn’t be a free country for long if we were Marxist or Anarchists that’s for sure!
kgotthardt @ 8:42
You must be referring to MWB and their mindless supporters. You’re right, without those haters there this time it was quite pleasant! Glad you agree.
Concerned Citizen,
Take your ignorance right back over the the pit of slime. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. By the way, who were you talking to or were your lips just flapping in the breeze?
Come on, SA. I don’t think there is a snowball’s chance in hell that Marxists and anarchists will come to power in this country.
SecondAlamo said on 29 Apr 2008 at 10:52 pm:
“so WHAT if a group is aligned with Marxists and anarchists” Firedancer, I can’t believe you actually said that! Now I’d like to see your ID. That’s about as anti-American as I have ever heard. America wouldn’t be a free country for long if we were Marxist or Anarchists that’s for sure!
Kenneth said - And you think it is ok to be aligned with the people that you apparently are aligned with? where does one start? with FAIR et al….i know, they’re just great amurrrrricans……….duh
Celebrating the win from behind my TV set. I thank all of you who showed up to testify. I couldnt make it. Believe or not, PWC is now inline with what the state has passed (from the initial reports I have seen).
EG
Anyone know how the budget vote tonight went regarding the Boys and Girls Detention Center and the Manassas Senior Day Care Center? I saw the vote pass for RIFfing county staff, but was it the full complement of 85?
I’m guessing with the .97 tax rate, most everything that was proposed to be cut was cut. Other than not funding cameras in cruisers (which weren’t in the original mark-up, were they?), how do the modifications to the resolution save us any money? And, if money is being saved, was it reallocated to save any social services that were on the chopping block?
They ran through the budget vote in hurry once they came back from that lengthy recess — such a hurry that it’s hard to know exactly what happened.
The decal vote, for example. Mr. Gerhart suggests raising it to $34 to fund the transportation bond that voters approved. Marty Nohe makes a motion for $34, saying that transportation was a priority for him and, since 82% of PWC residents voted for it, he thought the funding had been delayed long enough.
But that motion was defeated, and went Stewart asked for another motion, somebody (Caddigan?) suggested $24, which passed easily but doesn’t fully fund the transportation CIP. Gerhart looked totally confused, as was I! Why didn’t they for a decal fee somewhere between $24 and $34? Why go right from the high down to the low without making a counter in between?
I honestly can’t make head nor tails of what went down tonight. I do know that our school budget took another hit to the tune of some $5 million dollars.
No one knows including the supervisors. Additionally, the Wash Post is reporting the resolution weaked and the Wash Times is reporting it stiffened.
People who were there are scratching their heads. It looks like everyone won or everyone lost. No middle ground.
“we should follow the EU model of evolving to a common currency, free trade, and open borders so people can go where the work is and goods and services may be driven by the market.”
I understand this. But realize Europe is much older than we are. It has taken them centuries to arrive at that. I don’t think the United States is there yet, and we won’t be until we master at least domestic policy. I think our immigrants are frustrated with our slow process in part because they are from older countries which gives them a completely different world view. Now go ahead and say, “Well tell them to go to Europe.” They don’t WANT to go to Europe and it’s not because they want to live off our good will. They want to be here because there IS so much good in the United States. BUT we have to protect ourselves from the lobbyists and the extremists who are taking over our Democratic process and our justice system.
Purple:
The EU did not eliminate national borders in any sense of the word. Member states in the EU are still independent nations with control over their borders and immigration policies. What the EU agreements do, however, is make the process of moving from one EU state to another much easier so there is a much freer flow of labor across national boundaries. See http://ec.europa.eu/justice_home/fsj/immigration/fsj_immigration_intro_en.htm
As for Adam Smith, you’ll find that there are three elements that must move freely in an open capitalist economy:
1. Raw materials to make goods
2. The produced goods
3. The labor to make the goods
Of late, we’ve gotten much better at 1 and 2 but we fail miserably at 3. Of course, I don’t think any of us would really want to live in a world purely governed by Adam Smith’s ideal economy.
To the question of Mexicans Without Borders…
There are two main tenets of MWB from what I’ve seen. The first is the dissolution of national boundaries to allow the free flow of people and goods from Mexico to the United States. The second is the idea that wherever there is a Mexican, there is Mexico. Both of these are an affront to the idea of our national sovereignty. There are also an extension of the socialist/leftist ideology that serves as the foundation for MWB.
That said, making Lyall, Steinbeck, Juarez, et al, the “face” of the anti-resolution “movement” was a brilliant stroke by the pro-resolution crowd. It is a very common tactic and one that works well. Find an outrageous or, even better, extremist group that opposes you and paint them as the primary advocates for the position counter to yours. Then, whenever anyone more reasonable than that group speaks up, you paint the reasonable ones as part and parcel of the extreme group. Thus, your positions are considered sane and rational while every one who opposes you is a whack job.
In essence, it is what I and others here have done by exposing the ties between GL/HSM/CS/JS and FAIR/NumbersUSA/etc. There are reasonable people who believe something needs to be done to address the illegal immigration issue. Not all of them are in the same camp as John Tanton and Greg Letiecq.
I think the whole point is that we have to stop trying to put people into neat little boxes on one side or the other of an issue. Rather than letting the extremes serve as the focal point on the issue, we should be looking for the common ground (yes, Medic, I can hear you saying, “That’s what I keep trying to get across.). Not everyone who supports/supported the resolution is a racist, nativist, or what have you. Not everyone who opposed/opposes the resolution is an open borders, illegal alien apologist leftist. If only the world were so simple that all our views could be condensed to fit on a bumper sticker, but that’s just not the way things work.
deport kgotthart! I’m starting a petition.
Personally, I think MWB folks would be happier if they had the following (not in any particular order):
1. Easier transit between countries
2. Acceptance of their culture among us
3. Opportunity to assimilate in positive ways
4. A passport to work
5. The same benefits and pay as regular workers once they are allowed to be here to work
People who have been picked on and denied a right to a decent life will usually become less angry and radical looking if they are getting at least SOME of the things they need. I know that is very true in my case. I don’t need to “win it all.” But my GOD, it would be nice to win at least SOMETIMES! I suspect most of us fall into this category. But maybe I am being presumptuous.
I’ve seen MWB on 2 or 3 occasions and to me, they’ve come across as upset people who want to work and who want to preserve their culture. I don’t see anything unreasonable in that. We ALL want that available to us.
If open borders are really their primary goal, then it never came across to me. I suspect there are degrees of beliefs within MWB as well.
Park’d,
I do NOT think you are racist and I DO understand your frustration.
I think Turn PW Blue said it best with this:
“I think the whole point is that we have to stop trying to put people into neat little boxes on one side or the other of an issue. Rather than letting the extremes serve as the focal point on the issue, we should be looking for the common ground (yes, Medic, I can hear you saying, “That’s what I keep trying to get across.). Not everyone who supports/supported the resolution is a racist, nativist, or what have you. Not everyone who opposed/opposes the resolution is an open borders, illegal alien apologist leftist. If only the world were so simple that all our views could be condensed to fit on a bumper sticker, but that’s just not the way things work.”
KG at 6:18
“Atzlan” discussion and “reconquista” concepts make all of us “Americans” nervous. It is the first time in a long time our internal national security has been threatened by a neighboring country and culture. This is not just some benign “social-equality movement”. Intentional “illegal” movement across borders to obtain and seize territory is what many nations in the world deal with a lot. Kurds in Iraq, Sunii’s and Shiites in Iran and Iraq, Bosnians in Serbia, Muslims in Chetchnia, Lebanese and palistinians in Isreal, Malaysians and Burmese in Thailand, Dutch in South Africa, Kamer Rouge in Cambodia and Vietnam, French Cultural Isolationist movements Canada, Nepalese in China, Pakistanis in India, Muslims in Spain, Germany, France and Great Britian,
all are crossing borders “illegally” and causeing ethnic wars and cultural wars in the countries they are attempting to carve pieces out of for themselves in seperatist, nation fracturing political movements.
They do this under the “disguise” of “discrimmination and diversity concepts, but actually promote cultural, legal and language seperatism. We are just starting to see and understand the magnitude of the threat to national security and soverenity.
The only way to prevent it is to apply the law equally on everyone and make a political movement to culturally blend all these disparate and disruptive cultures, or kick them out of the country with “illegal alien” law enforcement to control the unreasonable growth and political destruction.
See the following if you do not believe it is happening.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajkAP_M4ZAM
http://www.aztlan.net/
http://www.mayorno.com/WhoIsMecha.html
Michael,
I just have to ask if I am talking to the same Michael.
Do you believe in Salvation? I will know by your answer if you are the Michael, that I think of and not posting as Michael or are REALLY Michael but just not the one that I was talking to…..
# Michael said on 29 Apr 2008 at 9:05 pm:
I’ve heard this term “gospel” Greg bantered about.
Does that sound like somebody hates religious people of people of faith enough to throw out denigrating concepts about them. That’s not racists, but its the discrimmination against religious people clause of the Bill of rights and US Constitution and US Supreme Court ruling that prohibits discrimmination based on gender, race, ethnic group and religion. The “religious discrimmination” part has it’s own unique set of hate words and hate groups against it. These are not any different than racial hate words and racial hate groups against some of a race or ethnic group not just like them.
Do you get it? Those of you who think its ok to use the hate voice in uttering “GOSPEL GREG”, that’s like using any other hate term directed at races, or genders.
Micahel,
Just in case you don’t see this on another thread:
Selective hate memories here?
# Red Dawn said on 30 Apr 2008 at 11:59 pm:
Michael,
“Do you get it? Those of you who think its ok to use the hate voice in uttering “GOSPEL GREG”, that’s like using any other hate term directed at races, or genders.”
NAH, I think people believe more in be NOT deceived, as many will come in my name…
Turn PW Blue said on 30 Apr 2008 at 10:14 am:
That summary should be put up permanently here, beautifully written PW, a work of art. I could not agree more.
I agree - deport kgotthardt - although, unfortunately she won’t be able to survive as she has no job and lives in a VERY nice part of Bristow in a $400k house with no illegals in sight!