04/08/08 PWCBOS Meeting
The Board will have both a 2:oopm and a 7:30pm session today. The agenda for the meeting indicates that conveyance of the Silver Lake parcel will be heard at the 7:30 session. Additionally, it’s not too late to comment on the FY09 Budget.
For those not familiar with the Silver Lake parcel, it’s 230 acres located in the western part of the County. It was proffered at the insistence of local citizens who were very vocal against allowing it to be developed. Currently, there are a number of proposals under consideration for its management.
The proposals can be found here:
Prince William County Conservancy
Bull Run Mountain Conservancy
The question, according to the Prince William Conservation Alliance:
Which would you choose?
500 acres of parkland open to the public at no cost to taxpayers
OR
230 acres of parkland open to the public at an initial investment of $1.6 million + $215,000* tax dollars each year.
So which would you chose and why?
You know what I don’t get with this Board? O.K., since you asked I’ll tell you
Citizens voted for a 3 million dollar bond for parks and open space last election. Citizen surveys, given by the county, all show that citizens WANT more parks and open space. Citizens have, through the demoratic process, demonstrated we want more parks and opens space. Immigration Resolution, lack of democratic process, yet that is steamrolled through.
Bull Run Conservancy will DOUBLE the amount of Parkland for citizens at NO COST, yes folks, at NO COST to the taxpayer. They will raise private donations to prepare the park for opening to citizes. Through a deed agreement, the use of the park CANNOT ever be amended or Silver Lake reverts back to the county.
This is a no brainer decision. Bull Run Conservancy offers a unique opportunity to the County. The question we need to ask, is what is more important, that the park authority have control or that Supervisors follow through the will of the people and acquire more parkland at no cost to the citizens through a partnership with Bull Run Conservancy.
Supervisor will get to see my smiling face again tonight!
I was just reminded of a great quote “hope springs eternal” , I hope that rings true for parks and open space tonight.
Feel free to send a quick note!
cstewart@pwcgov.org; mnohe@pwcgov.org; gainesville@pwcgov.org; mcmay@pwcgov.org; wcovington@pwcgov.org; mcaddigan@pwcgov.org; jjenkins@pwcgov.org; fprincipi@pwcgov.org
I will always go for the greatest amount of park land because first, we don’t have enough reserved even compared to other counties and second, we need to protect our natural resources from the kind of poorly planned overdevelopment we see in PWC (my own area is a perfect example).
Elena,
You have sure made it sound like a no brainer. The county has budget problems and someone else will take on the land, the upkeep and double the parcel? I vote for door # 1.
To do otherwise is like turning down free money.
I included a plug for acquiring the free acreage for Silver Lake in my email a couple days ago to the BOCS about the budget. I think the county funds that would be spent on Silver Lake need to go to acquiring more parkland elsewhere in the county.
You’d think it would be a no brainer wouldn’t ya Moon-howler! maybe you can “howl” at the BOSC, every voice will count!
I think it is pretty clear that the PWCPA is going to end up with Silver Lake in their inventory. I know that Bull Run has the most vocal proponents however I think long term PWC would have been much better served had we taken seriously the opportunity to join the Northern Virginia Regional Park group. Not only would PWC residents gain access to all of the parks in the group (for free as opposed to fee based access that is in place now) but would would gain the financial clout of the organization and management expertise of the group that would lead to additional opportunities to grow park land in the county as well as manage Silver Lake as a start. The NOVA Regional parks group is first class and when I lived in Fairfax County I regularly took advantage of their parks.
So why hasn’t PWC done this? Anyone know why?
K, Part of the reason that the county isn’t willing to enter into an agreement with the NOVA regional part authority is that it was going to cost the county several million dollars to do so and the BOCS doesn’t have the spine to do ask taxpayers to pony up the money even if the long term solution would be better for the county in the long term. Although county residents have said that they want more parks and open spaces when push comes to shove the average citizen will never tell their supervisor to raise taxes to make it happen.
Craig,
1)Bull Run Mountain Conservancy(BRMC) will include 268 acres as an addition to Silver Lake, no cost to the tax payers
2)BRMC will raise the money through private donors to open the park, at no cost to the taxpayers
3)BRMC will agree, through the deed language, that uses will remain passive, no possiblity for change later down the road. Citizens can depend on the uses never changing to more active.
Park Authority
1)The land, which is actually not that large due to lake size an quarry will remain the same, no additional 268 acres
2)citizen will have to pay for initial upgrades to open and support keeping it open through taxes
3)Park Authoriy has vague language outling passive use intention, but no concrete plan and this plan can always be amended in the future, despite what citizens concerns may be for more active uses.
4)Board has show in the past, not just this Board, that Parks and Open Space programs are one of the first on the chopping blocks when budget times get tough.
Northern Virginia Regional Park
1)The land will not gain additional 268 acres
2)County must invest 1.8 million initially and, I believe, 800K thereafter per year. PWC will not have a final say in uses for parkland
I believe there is a place for all three in this county, but Silver Lake, for this unique situation, the best choice is BRMC.
Futhermore, Citizens responded, within the most recent citizen survey, an overwhelming majoirty WOULD support some increase in taxes to support Parks and Open Space, as long as the funds were dedicated for such an endeavor.
Elena, I don’t disagree that the BRMC proposal has its benefits however I don’t know that it is the best option when compared to the long term gains that could be achieved in joining the NVRPA. As I believe that this point is moot and the NVRPA option has been taken off the table that leaves BRMC and PWCPA. It seems to me from reviewing what has been said and what is in writing right now that the BOCS is leaning towards the PWCPA option. I have some concerns about this option however I think that most county residents tend (from my experience) to focus on active rather than passive recreation uses when thinking about parks and BRMC would not cater to activities like soccer, baseball, etc., etc. (which is not a bad thing as I would love to have more passive recreation open space for hiking etc in this county).
Would you agree or disagree on this point?
Sorry Elena, this deal with the BRMC was cooked up by Lord Connaughton before his departure as one of his project to help ensure yet another rezoning and expansion for Toll Brothers. Thus he gave Kieffer an unprecedent opportunity for a 20 minute soliloquy during the applicant’s portion of the board hearing. He was only slightly less a shill than Lucy who wanted the deal for another precious school site, never mind its next to a lake, a flooded quarry and sitting on land purportedly in need of remediation. The outcome was pre-determined as part of a push for Toll Brothers and the BRMC was a means to an end.
Above and beyond that, the BRMC has not shown any capacity or capability for developing and maintaining an adequate facility, well for that matter, neither has the County but that shouldn’t surprise anyone.
We are in such a state with revenue that this is not even a possibility. I would place ARC above this. At this point with the budget and after watching Mr. Martino this afternoon, I hope we have Libraries open at least one day a week and some parks open this summer. This board is so short sighted, county staff and some members tried to point out that a slight increase in taxes last year would ward off painful issues this year. Nope, the “I’m more republican than you crowd” won that battle last year.
Today the Mr. Gerheart told the board that revenues were down another 18 million – 10 M for the schools and 8 M for the county. This is in addition to what has already been lost. The schools were told today and they have to make changes to their budget which is being presented tonight.
Guess they just need to cut all the “fat” from those agencies and the schools. You know, 85-90% of the total county budget is probably salary – schools as well. Not sure where the fat is, except for those local contractors that thnk they could build a cheaper school.
…another fine mess you’ve gotten us into Ollie.
Craig,
You may want to look at the citizen survey. People do want passive recreation AND active. But there is more at stake for conserving open space then soccer fields for the health of an entire community. James Long Park is ONE BIG soccer field now. Where is the alterntate use for citizens who aren’t interested in soccer?
MOM,
I know for a fact that was not the case. Toll brothers had NO intention of giving that land away intially.
Elena, I know what people said in the survey, in fact I was one of those people. I would prefer to see more passive than active recreation facilities added however one survey, or even multiple surveys, does not reflect the reality of what people will actually push for when it comes to dollars.
Frankly, when it comes down to dollars both BRMC and PWCPA proposals come up short with concrete details on how to pay for their proposals where as the NVRPA has proven over the years to be a fiscally responsible organization that can manage park lands to a truly world class standard.
“Toll brothers had NO intention of giving that land away intially.”
I didn’t say anything about the initial applications, this came about in the last round in which they gave up their problem plague plan for Silver Lake in exchange for higher density in the restricted age development and considerations with regard to proffers. There were many facets to that story and multiple interests, few good, most bad.
I’m tired of them spending money on golf. Hello? Some of us low-lives don’t golf. We like to roam and romp in the woods and make animal noises. What about hiking trails? Or are we supposed to hike on the golf court? (I wish this thing had emoticons.)
kgotthardt said on 8 Apr 2008 at 8:18 pm:
I’m tired of them spending money on golf. Hello? Some of us low-lives don’t golf.
It’s DIVERSITY. Just because you don’t like golf doesn’t mean many others don’t!
We like to roam and romp in the woods and make animal noises. What about hiking trails? Or are we supposed to hike on the golf court?
Uh, I believe it’s a golf “course”. Anyway, I guess you could “roam and romp” and “make animal noises” [shudder] anywhere you wish. Just warn us first.
(I wish this thing had emoticons.)
Hee hee hee. I wanted emoticons because I am just having fun–I need that grinning yahoo face with the big teeth or the tongue sticking out sideways.
I realize there are people who like golf. But seriously, we have more golf ops than hiking ops in this county. Enough with the dang golf! I don’t want to take my picnic lunch to a golf course!
BTW it’s only fun to make animal noises if there are real animals (not just people) around. Haven’t you or your kids ever tried making deer calls in the park? Sheesh! I can’t be the ONLY weirdo here.
(How the heck are y’all getting those emoticons anyway?)
Yes, someone please tell the rest of us dummies how to get the emoticons on here. I am glad someone else asked, Kgotthardt!! Thanks.
Mom,
I too followed this rezoning application very closely back in spring 2006. Let me first state – if it wasn’t for Bull Run Mountain Conservancy this land would never have been given to the County. Michael Kiefer went to Toll Brothers and asked for it which is more that what Stirrup could negotiate. Many residents spoke out against rezoning without having the entire Silver Lake proffered. Unfortunately, Stirrup was ready to vote for the rezoning with 130 acres of the parcel still being developed with 12/13 homes on 10 acre lots. Luckily, after Stirrup suggested a vote, Connaughton suggested postponing the vote on the rezoning application and rescheduled the meeting for a later date. During this time period, it was learned that Toll Brothers had not remediate environmental issues that would have been very costly to the County. The land at that time was valued at 30,000/acre, so that the loss of that acreage would have been approximately $3,000,000. I would have to go back and see what other additional proffers were offered during that delay but I believe there were additional monies.
“Just say no to more development.” (No emoticon included in that message.)
Does anyone else see the irony in last night’s votes. Chairman Stewart and Mr. Stirrup, the two biggest proponents of the notion that we should cut the schools, close the libraries one day a week, and don’t fund the bond projects so we can have low, low taxes, were the two pushing hardest for the land to be given to the Park Authority costing the county more money that we don’t have. I guess according to them we can have a new baseball stadium, add huge tracks of land for parks and take over the federal responsibility of policing people’s immigration status while still having low taxes.
Mr. Stewart, Mr. Stirrup TAKE ME TO YOUR MONEY TREE!
Very FUNNY and very true. Nohe stuck to the idea of less government and not using public funds. I understand Jenkins and Stirrup being Park Authority ‘people’ leaning towards them but Stewart was disappointing; especially because prior to the election he publicly supported the idea.
Jeesh…you’re making it way to easy, Alanna.
In the interest of taking the high road, I won’t take the bait. 
Jesus Mejia said on 8 Apr 2008 at 2:18 pm:
I bit Stewart will wont it turned over to ICE for a detention facility.
I also heard yesterday that Stewart is leaving to accept a key political appointment at ICE.
Adios racist!
THAT WOULD BE TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE…….BUT WOULD SHOW HIM THAT THINGS ARE NOT SO SIMPLE…..MAYBE HE COULD BUILD THE FENCE DOWN SOUTH….MAKE IT 100 FEET HIGH….AND WE COULD ALL B…. AT HIM FOR INCOMPETENCY IN ICE!!!
Yes, another very frustrating night for the preservation of open space. Yes, very smart to turn down FREE land at NO COST to the taxpayer. You should have heard John Stirrup, advocating for big government. Isn’t he suppose to be a republican?