AntiBVBL

Washington Post this morning:

More Fallout From Immigrant Policy
Top Supervisor Feuds With Police Chief Over Meeting With Consul, Residents
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/28/AR2008032803474_pf.html

We are getting unconfirmed reports that Corey Stewart and Greg Letiecq are trying to get the Prince William County Police Chief fired. We have redesigned the 9500Liberty YouTube channel in order to recap the feud dating back to July 10th when Chief Deane spoke out publicly against the “crack down” (now our featured video).

http://www.youtube.com/9500Liberty

Since that time, Chief Deane has gone along with the policy and even defended it. He spoke at a meeting of “Help Save Manassas” campaign rally and was warmly introduced by Greg last September six weeks before the Virginia State election.

Thanks for the post Eric. I am sure your reports are correct. I think this time Corey has listened one too many times to Greg. Only John Stirrup is backing him on this one. The incident with Chief Deane may be the issue that allows the Supervisors to really start finding their voices.
The beginning was the adverstised tax rate, I hope they continue standing on their own.

Watch this video, and learn something from an educated non-rhetoric viewpoint. No bias, just factual details:

http://www.capsweb.org/content.php?id=289&menu_id=30&menu_item_id=44

Unconfirmed reports = hearsay in a court of law. Proof is what is needed in any circumstance. I agree that the chief wasn’t trying to undermine anything, but the fact that a representative of a foreign government was involved changes the entire requirements of how the meeting was established. If there are rules dealing with how this must be handled, then they must be followed. Just as our immigration laws must be followed.

SA, maybe it’s time for PWC to stop trying to write immigration law altogether since there appears (at least in some minds) to be much minutiae of which our politicians, County Exec, and police chief are unaware. Only the experts in federal and international law who all seem to congregate on BVBL know everything.

I watched a few minutes of 2Alamo’s professor dude. Then I noticed the name of his website “Californians for Population Control!” Astonishing. If you look at their press release page, 3 of the first 4 headlines complain about IMMIGRATION and make no mention of documentation status!

This is an interesting archeology of the anti-immigrant movement. A few decades ago, when they got started with a financial boost from white supremacist donors like the Pioneer Fund, anti-immigrant lobbying firms like FAIR used to run around saying “America is getting overpopulated, therefore we must restrict immigration from Latin America and Asia.” No one listened to them. It wasn’t until after 9/11 that the figured out that fear of diversity, in and of itself, was not enough. With a series of media blasts and without factual basis, they connected immigration with terrorism. Suddenly there was an anti-immigrant movement where before there had only been average citizens marveling at racists.

This is not to say that everyone who got swept into it is a racist. There were plenty of Good Germans, let’s not forget.

Chief Deane is trying to avert or mitigate a series of disasters made all but inevitable by the lack of judgment showed by the County Board. He doesn’t want to see the spike in unsolved crime he warned them about in July 2007.

Quote from the Washington Post article article 3-29-08:

“When Deane urged listeners not to lose trust in county police or to stop reporting crimes, some pointed out that his officers had assisted federal immigration officers in a raid on a Manassas company earlier in the week, blurring the distinction between local police and much-feared federal officers.”

Chief Deane’s speech from 7-10-07:

“Community policing efforts will end. This method of policing, which our County has
embraced with impressive results, has been identified as the best practice in policing and is based on the trust between the public and the police. Clearly 18% of our population is Hispanic and that population will not respond to the current proposed legislation in a positive manner, but rather in a hostile and distrustful one. Thus, based on all my years of experience in policing, I predict one unintended consequence will be the sharp rise in unsolved crime and the under-reporting of crime by minority populations.”

I have wondered why the initial cost projection was around 14 million and escaleded to 61? What am I missing or am I misunderstanding?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWDnYco2gnY

http://goodbyecorey.com/republican-allies/kopko-and-stewart/stewarts-unfunded-illegal-immigration-initiative-costs-6-1-million/

John Tanton, Eric Byler, I guess the list goes on. I only watched the first video, but unless the interview was held by the members of the web site, then the only bias would be by the person interviewed. However, is he misquoting the law, or is he stating facts? Being a lawyer (trusted individual ; ) ) I assume he wouldn’t misrepresent the law, but it wouldn’t be the first time. I do agree that merely being born in this land by parents who are only visitors hardly seems to be grounds for citizenship. What if the people are here on holiday, and have no intentions of their children being other than citizens of their home country? The key word I rarely see here is CITIZENSHIP as it doesn’t seem to be of much interest to anyone. No cries of wanting to become citizens either.

Just to let you all know, the comments on the Washington Post article have gotten out of hand. I’ve seen PWCIndependent on there, but mostly it’s the anti-immigrant mob. Below is my latest post responding to a guy who, as far as I can tell, brought up racism himself without being called one:

highwaybluesoccer wrote:
“Who gives a $hit about racism??? If racism is calling out the hispanic illegals than I guess I am a racist.”

This is a good summary of where this is debate is headed. Folks, why don’t you stop focusing on what this ethnic person did or that ethnic person did?

Look at yourselves, and look as our nation as one community. We are making collective choices about the future of this country, and who we are as a people. Our ethnic make-up is not something we can control — nor should we. The only thing we can control is the values that unite and define us as a nation. I suggest equality, fairness, respect, opportunity, democracy. Things like that. It’s much too late to define the nation based on race, religion, etc.

“Racism is okay as long as the undesirable people leave.” Does this value fit in with equality, opportunity, and respect?

If this is what you want, this represents a drastic change to the fabric of this society. Really quite radical, and not conservative in the least. I’m not saying that such radicals shouldn’t exist. But that doesn’t mean we should be governed by them.

“The only thing we can control is the values that unite and define us as a nation.” And your point? That is exactly why most of us are upset at watching those very VALUES being downgraded by people who don’t share them! They come from the lowest socioeconomic levels of their countries, for the most part, and therefore don’t necessarily share the same values as the majority of those whose neighborhoods they are moving into. Just as I wouldn’t want the local back woods trailer park relocating next door. It’s ideals and values that will always cause people to either congregate together or keep them apart. Gang members hang with gang members, and church supporters hang with church supporters, regardless of ethnic backgrounds. Simple fact of life. Just as you’ll never hang with members of HSM regardless of their ethnic backgrounds. What is so hard to understand about that?

Almost all immigrants to the USA have come from the lowest socioeconomic levels of their own countries. You think the Irish or Italians or Poles were the wealthy ruling class?

If you are doing that well in your own country, why on earth would you want to leave it?

Oh, so you admit that most immigrants come here for economic reasons, and citizenship is just something to make them legal? True Americans one and all if that’s the reason!

Second Alamo,
I am not going to continue to argue the reality of our history regarding immigration. This country was built on the premise of capitalism, are you denying THAT value? Making a better life for yourself in America is the draw! The land of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, is any of this ringing a bell? ARE YOU KIDDING ME? What do you people want, to tear this country apart?! Now suddenly for hispanics the rules should change about what brings people to this country?

Does wanting to be an AMERICAN ring a bell?

Actually Alamo, I didn’t admit anything. I commented that most people who have a comfortable life don’t pack up their worldly possessions and move elsewhere to parts unknown.

Immigrants come to this country for many reasons. As long as they are reasons that don’t hurt Americans I really don’t care why they come here. When I say hurt, I mean like blow up buildings and that sort of thing, not some perceived hurt. I think it is fair to say that those who work terrorist cells aren’t here to benefit Americans.

I don’t think that most first generation immigrants ever get over thinking of themselves as from the country of origin. If they did, we wouldn’t have many of the customs and celebrations we have today in this country. St Patrick’s Day comes to mind, first and foremost.

A friend of mine just went to a huge several day Finland descendant festival out in Oregon. Her family is several generations away from Finland, but they all still went, participated, and met up with relatives they didn’t know they had. It makes them no less American.

Second Alamo,
What is your point?! What were the reasons for your immigrant ancestory coming here? Mine were the SAME SAME SAME as every other immigrant group. To make a better life in America. I will write this again, for the “reading” impaired, the hispanic population IS NO DIFFERENT!

IT,
America is one of the most generous and welcoming
countries in the world. Over 1 million new immigrants
are legally admitted each year. This # does not
include the number of immigrant workers (skilled
& unskilled) who are admitted on temporary
work visas. So America, and Americans are
definitely not “anti-immigrant”.

There is a quota system based on national origin
for the number of new admissions that are
processed and the infamous green card
“lottery” that admits people from a diverse
pool.
http://travel.state.gov/visa/immigrants/types/types_1317.html

My husband’s family are from one of the
nations listed as “ineligible” and they certainly
feel discriminated against and that the immigration
laws are unfair — and they are not hispanic.

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/alerts/alt003.shtm

The entrant must be from an eligible country. You must have been born in an eligible country, or have parents who were born in eligible countries and who were not residents of your country of birth, when you were born. For example, your parents might have lived temporarily in the ineligible country because of their jobs.

Every year, the State Department announces the countries whose natives are ineligible for application. For the DV-2009 lottery, natives of the following countries are not eligible to apply: Brazil, Canada, China (mainland born), Colombia, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Guatemala, Haiti, India, Jamaica, Mexico, Pakistan, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Russia, South Korea, United Kingdom (except Northern Ireland) and its dependent territories,and Vietnam. Persons born in Hong Kong, Macau, and Taiwan are eligible. Applicants should check with the State Department to determine the ineligible countries for future DV lotteries.

The illegal alien population, regardless of their country of origin,
jumped the queue because they did the math and realized the
wait was too long. So, the debate needs to be about
whether or not it is in the best interests of the US to
continue to attempt to have a diverse immigrant pool
and recruit from countries with historically low
immigration rates? Or should we just give all
hispanics a free pass and a green card because of
their geographic proximity to the US and their
willingness to be contemptful of US sovereignty?

It’s an important debate about “who” gets in and “who” gets to stay, and that is
the debate we should be having. I just returned from Canada to attend a college
friend’s wedding. I witnessed a white Canadian getting rounded up by ICE as he tried to cross. He operates a construction co illegally and owns a house in PA.
The increased enforcement is being applied to ALL illegals, without regard to national origin.

Alamo,

My people have been here so long, even my ‘immigrant’ people, that I have no concept of the great ideal of being an AMERICAN to someone who isn’t one. It is just something I take for granted. I am who I am. It is my identity. I cannot tell another person how to view the condition of being an American, nor would I want to.

IT,
America is one of the most generous and welcoming
countries in the world. Over 1 million new immigrants
are legally admitted each year. This # does not
include the number of immigrant workers (skilled
& unskilled) who are admitted on temporary
work visas. So America, and Americans are
definitely not “anti-immigrant”.

There is a quota system based on national origin
for the number of new admissions that are
processed and the infamous green card
“lottery” that admits people from a diverse
pool.
http://travel.state.gov/visa/immigrants/types/types_1317.html

My husband’s family are from one of the
nations listed as “ineligible” and they certainly
feel discriminated against and that the immigration
laws are unfair — and they are not hispanic.

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/alerts/alt003.shtm

The entrant must be from an eligible country. You must have been born in an eligible country, or have parents who were born in eligible countries and who were not residents of your country of birth, when you were born. For example, your parents might have lived temporarily in the ineligible country because of their jobs.

Every year, the State Department announces the countries whose natives are ineligible for application. For the DV-2009 lottery, natives of the following countries are not eligible to apply: Brazil, Canada, China (mainland born), Colombia, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Guatemala, Haiti, India, Jamaica, Mexico, Pakistan, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Russia, South Korea, United Kingdom (except Northern Ireland) and its dependent territories,and Vietnam. Persons born in Hong Kong, Macau, and Taiwan are eligible. Applicants should check with the State Department to determine the ineligible countries for future DV lotteries.

The illegal alien population, regardless of their country of origin,
jumped the queue because they did the math and realized the
wait was too long. So, the debate needs to be about
whether or not it is in the best interests of the US to
continue to attempt to have a diverse immigrant pool
and recruit from countries with historically low
immigration rates? Or should we just give all
hispanics a free pass and a green card because of
their geographic proximity to the US and their
willingness to be contempful of US sovereignty?

My apologies for the double post. I don’t know how to delete?

IT,
I agree with you whole-heartedly that the hispanic population is no different
from any other immigrant pool. The only difference is the geographic proximity
to the US. I know several hispanics who have told me that they feel
frustrated about the almost schizophrenic policy. Cubans are allowed to
stay if they reach dry land; other hispanics can not.

I agree that the immigration policy and bureaucracy is severely flawed.
However, I do not support allowing illegal aliens who are “out of status”
the right to adjust their status in country.

I also support a guest worker program with a path to citizenship for those
who have demonstrated that they are law-abiding and hard working.
I just feel that the guest worker visas should be more fairly distributed
and equally available to other nationals from countries that do not have
geographic proximity and who are pro-American. What about
post-communist European countries that are struggling to get on their feet?
Albanians are very pro-American and would love the opportunity to
come here and work. The list could go on and on and on.

So we agree — the hispanics are no different from any other pool of
migrants. The only difference is the geography and the vigorous
advocacy and interference from their home countries to meddle
and interfere in American public policy debates.

Moonhowler,
I agree with you. I am not an “economic migrant”. I came here because I fell in love with an American. Ironically, my family tried to talk me out of it.

Defining what it means to be “American” is difficult. I love this country and Americans for their generosity and openness. My children are American.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to retain your own customs as long as they do
not conflict with the broad umbrella of civil rights, and when there is a conflict, we should all raise our voices to condemn it and celebrate human rights and the right to dignity.

This includes the cultural “custom” of oppressing females and the cynical exploitation of illegal alien workers as two examples that immediately come to mind.

SecondAlamo, your comments above make my point better than I probably will below, but let me try:

Let’s take a step backward and see the word “values” as if it could be separated from the wedge issue buzz-word that used to define “them” vs. “us” for political purposes. After all, the architects of this strategy have proven themselves woefully incompetent leaders, and the vast majority of “values voters” no longer grant them credibility.

Some are still rallying behind the politics of division, but a countervailing force is beginning to emerge. “Uniting Values” are replacing “Dividing Values.”

I prefer Uniting Values because they are based on American ideals like equality and opportunity, tolerance and respect. This, in my view, better defines America than any particular race or religion. (The founding documents made no mention of an official race or religion, but they did hold certain truths to be self evident).

If we wish to come together as a nation, I propose focusing on values that everyone can share. Most people do share these values if given an opportunity to become part of this society. Yes, there is a process of assimilation, but this is true of all immigrants whether they “look American” at first glance or not. Ask Jeb Bush!

On the other hand, there Dividing Values that split us apart — “they” are not Christians, “they” are not Patriotic, “they” are not heterosexual, “they” don’t speak English, “they” are gang members while “we” go to church. Your comments above also refer to socio-economic class, an age-old way of defining “they” vs. “we.” If we see the world that way, we fail to identify common interests, common goals, or common ground. Divisive politics might win an election. They might justify a law, a policy, or even a war. But inevitably, we end up regretting collective decisions made out of fear, anger, and distrust.

Right now, as undocumented immigrants, their American citizen families, and other people of color flee Prince William County, those who are left behind are suffering the consequences. Property rates are falling here more precipitously than the rest of the nation. Why? Because we have considerably more foreclosures due to people abandoning their mortgages and leaving. If you see the world as “them” vs. “us” you might cheer this idea assuming those who are deserting us are from the “them” category (as HSM members did last August when this was just beginning). But, when a home is abandoned to the banks, the value of the home next door goes down too. When businesses and entire strip malls fold up and leave the county, it doesn’t only affect the business owners who leave; it affects the ones who stay. The shoe store and the video store have less customers now because the restaurant and the supermarket have folded or relocated. This means the shoe store and the video store are next.

People of different ethnicities, religions, documentation status, AND socio-economic backgrounds are deeply interconnected. We can’t afford to make decisions based on what divides us rather than that which we have in common.

So as we are deciding how we feel about our Police Chief, let’s look at the values he is struggling to uphold– fairness, trust, openness, public safety, and equal protection under the law. Too many people (on both sides) are judging him in terms of “which side is he on?”

Much is now being made of Chief Deane’s warning of 7-10-07. Well here’s another warning: the WORST THING WE COULD DO to make this cultural and economic disaster EVEN WORSE is to cause Chief Deane to leave us in the hands of a someone like the infamous KKK Sheriff in Arizona. That would represent the point no return.

MH,

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head! This country has lost it’s identity in the quagmire of diversity indoctrination. Every minority has a special day, or month, or celebration such that one would think that there is no America, but just a place where people from different countries come to party. What ever happened to celebrating being American? We use to do it on a daily basis in our schools by pledging allegiance to the flag. Now, because there are so many minority support groups with their teams of lawyers, that has been shot down to appease the immigrant minorities. Immigrants of the past would have been honored to say the pledge of allegiance, but now they come here for the money and despise the thought that they would have to honor America in any way shape or form. This is what it means to NOT being an American, that’s for sure. The Latinos are certainly upholding this sentiment, as the new wall clearly indicates.

Eric,
I am tired of what I perceive to be your bias and belief that all whites are racist and the “rule of law” resolution is solely based on white racism against hispanics.

There are racists individuals from every ethnic group.
There are white racists, hispanic racists, black racists, asian racists…….

From your own website regarding the controversy over your film “charlotte sometimes”
http://www.imdiversity.com/villages/asian/arts_culture_media/archives/byler_charlotte_sometimes_hapas.asp

“To complicate matters, I’m Hapa as well, which to an interesting degree made both me and the film easy targets when detractors recently sought to rally support against the film on behalf of “full-blooded” Asian Americans.”

you discuss at length the hysteria and racism coming from the “full blooded” Asian American population.

I would appreciate it if you would stop immediately jumping to the misguided conclusions that
(a) everyone who supports the rule of law resolution is racist and anti-”immigrant” or anti-hispanic
(b)refuse to acknowledge that there are real social and community problems associated with the industry that hides and supports illegal aliens.

I will agree that some of the stuff that is posted on bvbl is pretty scary.
The video you made of GL and his biblical references sent a chill down my spine.
Scary, scary, scary.

But as an immigrant I do not see the debate in terms of being anti-hispanic. The reason the debate centers so much around the “hispanic” question is that the hispanic community has been so vigorous and vocal in demanding that immigration enforcement NOT take place. 9500 Liberty, Mexicans without borders, etc. I have not seen any other ethnic group take the center stage in this debate demanding their “right” to stay, “right” to work, “right” to remain, etc etc. Most illegals know that the choice they made to come here was wrong and they do not have the “right” to stay or make demands that immigration policy (as it stands now) be flouted in their favor. It seems everyone wants an exception, to the point where there would be no need for any immigration policy or control.

Eric,

I take this opportunity to invite you to a HSM meeting so that you can come to understand the OTHERS points of view first hand. This will be part of your good will indoctrination into the understanding of others. This is what you have been saying for so long. Here is your opportunity to put your hand and not your videos out to heal those wounds. You see, it isn’t that easy is it? Why must we always give in to the wishes of those who are here illegally? How about they come around to our way of thinking, or is it the majorities job these days to bow to the will of the minority?

Greencard,
things are hectic today,I will make sure to respond to you fully later today!

One quick point, it is NOT the “rule of law resolution”, it is the illegal immigration resolution. No where in legal county documents is it referred as anything other.

GreenCard, you are correct, prejudice is a problem among all ethnicities and in all nations. From my limited experience, it can be an even bigger problem among people of color, because they are less often held accountable. But prejudice within immigrant communities gives way to tolerance and understanding AS WE BECOME MORE AMERICAN. And this is precisely my point.

Tolerance is a fundamentally American value. Equality, opportunity, fairness, respect — this is what makes us who we are. We lose too much and gain too little when we compromise these values to achieve a political or social goal — like winning an election or like driving out an undesirable community.

And I don’t care for what ever reason they are undesirable: their economic status, their ethnicity, the language they speak, the vegetables they grow, the way they came here, or the status of their visa application. People who are blinded to the humanity of others have said and done some pretty “scary” things in this country and in others. Seeing Americans behave like this is every bit as repugnant to me as illegal immigrants probably are to you.

I’m not saying organizing around divisiveness, fear, or anger is “racist.” I’m saying it fails to live up to America’s fundamental values and ideals.

Please define the word ‘undesirable’, why does it exist if not to be applied to things that one doesn’t want. How does one make something ‘undesirable’ into something ‘desirable’? Two choices, either change your opinion or change the thing in question. Too much factual negative information exists for many to change their opinions, but only reenforces them. Not our fault, just facts!

Second Alamo,
“Facts” are fluid though. I have my facts you have yours. So in the end, how does one decide, which “facts” to support. I believe it is very simple. Hold true to the tenents of our Democracy, the words of Thomas Jefferson based on the philosophy of Natural Law. Hold true to the most basic of beliefs, do not unto thy neighbor which you would not want done unto you. Pretty simple and never steers you wrong.

Alamo,

I could have sworn you said you had no affiliation with HSM. Perhaps I have you confused with someone else. I didn’t realize you are a member.

As for mischaracterizing the OTHER, I believe Eric knows the OTHER. The OTHER can only be judged by his writings, as I am sure you judge me.

Pledge of allegiance? It is being said everywhere, all over Prince William County Schools, City Schools, etc. Why do you think it no longer is? It cannot be foreced. However, schools can certainly set aside and insist on desirable behavior for non- participants while others say it.

I certainly no not feel all Latinos feel hatred towards America or Americans. Do you recall driving around Manassas after 9-11 and looking at some of the many houses who were sporting American flags? Many of those homes belonged to Hispanic families. I am not so sure that those same people would willingly show such allegiance to the United States today after the nastiness some of them have been shown.

It shames me that so many white people feel it is perfectly ok to be rude to Latinos. It isn’t ok to be rude to anyone in my book. Many of these same people have been egged on by the words they read. I know a few of those people.

It all boils down to give a little, get a litte.

Eric,

I believe all people have prejudices. Some are just more polarizing than others. What disturbs me is that people feel it is perfectly acceptable to show and speak to those prejudices in the public forum.

We really do need to start being a nation that sports civilized behavior. We need to be ashamed of our prejudices and keep them in the confines of our own walls if we cannot rid ourselves of them. It should never be acceptable to voice them.

Saying I am not a racist does not make it true. Saying I am not prejudice does not make it so either.

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,

With conquering limbs astride from land to land;

Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand

A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame

Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name

Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand

Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command

The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

“Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she

With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

At a cafe in Maryland last winter, I saw a man reduced to tears reading that poem. We were at a Latino poetry reading. He was the first and only Caucasian to stand up. He said he would only read part of it, because he was nervous and he wasn’t sure if he belonged. But we encouraged him to read it all. When he came to “huddled masses” part, he choked up, but he got through it. The tears in his eyes said, “I’m sorry.” These Latino and African American young adults who were gathered there for spoken word and rap music were absolutely floored. They had no idea these words were inscribed on the Statue of Liberty.

A “fact” is merely an assumption that supports your belief system.

Last summer, just prior to the announcement of the immigration resolution, only 3 percent of Prince William County citizens named illegal immigration as a top concern.
http://www.pwcgov.org/docLibrary/PDF/006710.pdf

At that time, some residents (more than 3 percent) were feeling that foreign-looking people who didn’t speak much English were — maybe not “undesirable” but “less desirable.” But they also knew it was unlawful and un-Constitutional to target them in any institutional way. They probably didn’t bring up their anxiety in mixed company or in the public square, for fear of sounding prejudiced. So, as recently as last July, these people were making room for their “less desirable” new neighbors. And the new neighbors were learning to be “more desirable,” slowly fitting in. I’ll bet many people were coming to enjoy the advantages of living in a diverse community (a variety of restaurants or what have you).

But then, someone at the Farmers’ Market handed them a flier and invited them to a meeting. There, they were offered a new way of thinking — a slick-worded “deal” that would allow them to relieve their anxiety by expressing it without shame, and perhaps even turn it into political action. All they had to do was make a few simple assumptions that supported their new belief system:

1) Assume that any Hispanic-looking person you see is necessarily an illegal alien who has forfeited his/her rights by crossing a border or overstaying a visa.

2) Assume the majority of them are dangerous criminals or at least criminals of some kind.

3) Assume that they will never assimilate because they are “different” from all immigrants who came before them.

4) And, assume that all your problems can be blamed on these people, and thus can be solved by their rapid departure.

If you will buy into these assumptions (even though we haven’t done any research and can’t provide any substantiation), we can morally justify a new law that will drive most of these people out of your neighborhood. This can happen if you think like we think, say what we say, and vote for Stewart, Stirrup, Royce, Miller, and FitzSimmons.

“Less desirable” + “scapegoat” = “undesirable”

I’ve lived in this county since 1978 and have never been as embarrassed as I am now about the openly vile statements made in the WaPo and MJM in response to articles about immigration and immigrants. A few years ago I lived a naive life concerning the prejudice immigrants faced. I can say I was genuinely surprised when a Hispanic man I know told me that after 20 plus years living in the US, my husband and I were the only Anglos besides one other couple who treated him well. I was ashamed for his experience.

SA, far above you mentioned that many of these Hispanic immigrants didn’t want to become citizens. How about Corey Stewart’s wife? What took her so long to start her paperwork and would you disapprove of her slowness in becoming a citizen? I wonder if she would even have bothered had he not made such an issue of immigration.

Thank you for sharing that story Eric. I get chills every time I read the poem on the statue of liberty!

WhyHereWhyNow said on 29 Mar 2008 at 4:41 pm:

Thank you for your very eloquent post, what I was trying to say but you said it much better

I still vote Bob Wills

http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/03/29/2205/

“# Bob Wills said on 29 Mar 2008 at 6:41 pm:

Greg L said on 29 Mar 2008 at 4:48 pm:
Bob, citizens have a voice in our democratic process. We even listen to non-citizen residents, because they have a stake in our community while they’re here.

Agents of foreign governments have NO LEGITIMATE VOICE in our local affairs. Such activity is prohibited under international law and is proscribed under the Vienna Convention on Consular Affairs. Such activity is reason for the United States to removed a diplomat from our country for activity inconsistent with their diplomatic status.

So what voice did anyone have in PWC affairs? I hope you are not afraid of someone having an open public meeting. Not one elected official listened to the Mexican nor did any laws get offered. The best thing I got out of reading about this meeting is that more illegals are afraid to be in PWC then there were before the meeting. you have a problem with that?

I say let anyone talk all they want and Deane is nothing more then an employee of the county though he heads up a department that has a hugh impact on the illegal situation. If he was afraid to talk then I would be concerned. You are starting to believe your power to influence a bit much Greg.”

http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/03/29/2205/

MH,

No, I’m not a member of HSM. I was just making a statement to show that one should practice what they preach. This whole thing is starting to bore me as it is becoming one big loop. This one says that, and the other says this. It is starting to take the logic of war where it is just a matter of attrition as to who wins in the end.

Alamo,

Skip the parts that bore you would be my advice. I do that. It works.

On the other hand, Should this debate/discussion involve the middle ground? I don’t think that MWB and HSM are the only 2 ’sides’ who should be speaking. I would hate it if those were the only 2 positions.

Neither side represents how I feel. And in particular, neither side’s approach is how I would do things, regardless of how I feel. I also have never seen HSM play defense. (raised eyebrow)

In relationships people say, “This argument bores me” just when they start running out of points to make and realize they were wrong about something.

Moon-howler, by “playing defense” perhaps you mean people are backing away from associations with Help Save Manassas, whereas they used to wear it as a “badge of honor.” The Emperor of Intolerance is making no apologies for destroying the local economy here, not to mention the plummeting real estate market (much worse than surrounding areas) and the loss of our sense of community. But many of his followers are showing signs of buyers remorse. Fractures within the HSM group-think-ocracy abound. People are starting to say, “Wait a second, the Emperor of Intolerance no longer speaks for me.” If the BOCS realizes they don’t have to cower to the mob mentality, reasonable governance with good judgment and even foresight will be possible again.

At some point, one has to hope that cooler heads will prevail, that one’s political career is not as important as ones soul.

….one’s political career is not as important as one’s soul.

Beautifully put, IT.

Thank you Firedancer I tried to impart that wisdom on Corey several months ago, but clearly I failed. I really am so disappointed in the path he has chosen to follow.

I have to say, I feel sorry for Corey Stewart, just like I feel sorry for Bush (sorry but the Iraq metaphor keeps coming to mind). At the end of the day, Corey just wants people to like him. And everyone around him, his buddy Stirrup, certain constituents, Help Save Manassas, Letiecq, that FAIR lawyer Heffmon and the rest of the anti-immigrant lobby… ALL of them were telling him that Heffmon’s legislation was not immoral but just, that it would help the economy not destroy it. Stewart got some very bad advice that turned out to be wrong in terms of governing, but it was dead right in terms of politicking. If he didn’t foresee this disaster, it’s because he was bamboozled by his advisers (just like Bush). If he did foresee it, it means he prioritized politics over governing (just like Bush).

Don’t get me wrong, I’m as angry as the next person that this resolution is destroying our local economy, causing our houses to plummet in value, raising our taxes, and causing our children to think racism is something to aspire to. But let’s remember, back in July, in looked like anti-immigrant movement was THE MAGIC SAVIOR ISSUE for Republicans in 2007-2008.

Now, since July. he’s been a bit of a jerk. But if you focus only on Corey the person as opposed to the politician, you have to feel a little compassion. The mean-spirited words and actions were said and done… not out of hatred for Hispanics… but out of a knee-jerk reaction to his political opponents. This tells me he has a bad temper, and maybe a blind spot for right and wrong once he gets in a competitive battle. I know a lot of people like that.

If he’d known this resolution was going to be a disaster, I’m sure he would have chosen another issue to distract us from the tax hike of July 10, 2007, advance his career, and help state Republicans in the 2007 elections. But really-truly, if you were a loyal Republican in July 2007, what issue would you have picked?

WhyHereWhyNow said on 30 Mar 2008 at 6:52 pm:

I had several conversations with Corey, I tried to tell him that he really needed to start the healing process after the resolution passed, that it was time to lead the county, to mend the fences and help build the bridges. He HAD other advice and just chose to ignore it. I LIKE Corey as a person, I really do. That is why I am so disappointed in him, because I had such great hope for him as a Chairman. I tried to tell him he needed to be able to walk the fine line, that I understood his predicament, but in the end, your moral and ethical character was far more important than any political office. He listened, said he understood what I was saying, and then proceeded to continue to use divisive language.

Corey made his choices, not seeming to care of the consequences, and I just don’t have any sympathy for him right now.

The divisive anti-immigrant rhetoric didn’t work for Kilgore, so I’m not sure why it seemed like the savior for Republicans this year. People with “moral and ethical character” who want to stop illegal immigration also recognize the importance of expressing compassion for those who find life so intolerable in their countries that the only way to survive is to leave everything behind, even if it is breaking the law. They do not equate illegal immigrants with the most evil of criminals, and they make every effort to reassure Hispanics and legal immigrants that they are welcome in the community. This is done through actions, not empty words. It is immoral to score political points on the misfortune of others.

You reap what you sow. And your deeds illustrate your character.

Firedancer, I agree. I generally don’t associate with adults who would feel at ease using the divisive language that some political candidates feel free to use. I’m lucky in that my supervisor on the board is a reasonable person who is more prone to logic than hyperbole. As an Independent, I’m interested in having problems solved reasonably instead of listening to a political screed regardless of which party gives it.

LISTEN LIVE NOW:

http://www.co.prince-william.va.us/bocs/audio/default.htm