AntiBVBL

“the enemy” Ha ha…sounds rather Nixonian.

First of all, I can hardly imagine many immigrants turning to the leader of HSM for help. There seems to be a bit of confusion as to whom it would be hard to convince immigrants is not the enemy. Because such intemperate language is employed and enjoyed at bvbl, it is hard for immigrants to believe that the underlying message is not one of disgust with ALL immigrants who are changing the face of Virginia. If someone starts a group to Help Save a place against your people, what are you supposed to think?

Firedancer said on 24 Mar 2008 at 5:45 pm:

http://dontspeakforme.org/

Might be a good idea to read up on this.

“Rocket J. Squirrel said on 24 Mar 2008 at 2:58 pm:
Citizen 12,
You’re right on the money with that one. (no pun intended). For
years I’ve been sounding the alarm about the Bilderberger/Trilateralists
and most just ignore my warnings. The European press
reports them much better than in the US. This is something that needs
to be addressed more. What is it that every Federal Reserve
Chairman since WWII has in common?”

This was just posted on BVBL. Do you know what every Fed Chairman has in common ?

“Ever since the creation of the Federal Reserve system in 1913, EVERY SINGLE CHAIRMAN of the Fed, without exception, has been Jewish. That tradition has continued in the appointment by President Dubya of Ben Shalom Bernanke (Yes, that’s his real middle name) as successor to Alan Greenspan.
It is difficult to overstate the importance of the Federal Reserve in maintaining the Judaic control not only of our American economy and politics, but the economy and statecraft of the entire world.”

http://www.whitecivilrights.com/new-federal-reserve-chairman-yet-another-jew_254.html

Now, a little background on “Bilderberg”:

“In Yugoslavia, leading Serbs have blamed Bilderberg for triggering the war which led to the downfall of Slobodan Milosevic. The Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh, the London nail-bomber David Copeland and Osama Bin Laden are all said to have bought into the theory that Bilderberg pulls the strings with which national governments dance.

And while hardline right-wingers and libertarians accuse Bilderberg of being a liberal Zionist plot, leftists such as activist Tony Gosling are equally critical.

The idea that a shadowy clique is running the world is nothing new. For hundreds of years people have believed the world is governed by a cabal of Jews. ”

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3773019.stm

Maybe I am paranoid, but squirrel appears a tad jew phobic. The post stood out because I wasn’t sure what “he” was talking about, a little research and ….voila!

Admin,
If I haven’t said it lately, this site rocks. And you are correct, THIS IS the “self-correcting mechanism” for the OTHER. I never could have posted my statement to Squirrel over there, so thank you for giving me the format to do so here!

Ah yes, the organization Don’t Speak for Me. It’s been a very long time since I last looked at their website. They still have the same three testimonials. They appear not to have had an activity since August 2007. They appear to have virtually no members. Yet Medic, Patriot, and others on BVBL love to bring them up. An organization of handful of people and maybe a very irate cat. Okay, the cat quit.

Whether you like it or not Medic, election results have shown a majority of Latino voters to be upset with what are perceived as attacks on Latino immigrants in general, not just those who have entered illegally.

Maybe a majority of Latino voters feel that way because it gets portrayed as anti-immigrant in the Spanish media so much more than the English language media. There is absolutely no balance. Latinos are portrayed as victims that need to assert their rights and demand priviledges rather than dignified human beings with responsibilities to their adopted country.

I kind of doubt that Dignidad. I think they can get that impression from the English language media too, and from Republican Party faithful who can’t believe how grandly the Grand Old Party has screwed things up with Latino voters. See, for example, this story from that hotbed of commie liberal groupthink, FOX News.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,286496,00.html

Beyond being upset by new laws/policies, they can also look to instances of harassment that are only likely to get more common.

Leila, you doubt what? That Hispanics are portrayed as victims in the Spanish media so much more than the English language media? That there is no balance in the Spanish media? That Latinos are portrayed as victims?

There are laws that are anti-illegal which offend Hispanics. I understand that there is a fear amoung Hispanics, but it is anti-illegal not anti-Hispanic. The pro illegal groups have done an excellent job of promoting fear and confusing the issue.

Dignidad, I was very clear about what I doubted. I also think you are being naive if you think it is only a mistaken impression that creates fear or anger among Latinos who are citizens or otherwise in legal status.

Leila,

“Beyond being upset by new laws/policies, they can also look to instances of harassment that are only likely to get more common.”

Where is the proof they will become more common? Just because you say so? Not hardly!! How many of the PWC officers have been blamed for profiling since the resolution was enacted? I haven’t seen any media reports and I am sure we would see them if there had been any!!!

You spout off that there will be profiling, but no evidence to support it is available. Maybe a bit paranoid? If the people are here legally, they have nothing to worry about, so why are they worried?

Dignidad said on 25 Mar 2008 at 6:57 am:

I agree the pro-illegal alien groups have been successful in promoting fear in the ranks of legal citizens. As time goes by and we see that the PWC officers are not profiling Hispanics, they will understand, hopefully, that people associated with the pro-illegal groups do not know what they are speaking about.

For those that have cable in PWC. Channel 23 has an interesting and imformative segment by Chief Deane on the immigration policy. I would suggest watching it. I hope they air it Spanish for clarification. The immigrants legal and illegal need to hear information from the county. Not just Nancy L, Ricky J, and John Steinbach. They are the ones promoting some fear in our community.

PWPD has never had a serious problem of racial profiling and hardly think we will begin to see it start happening. Our officers are professional and we all know racial profiling has been ILLEGAL for many years now.

/\/\3|)iç 64: It’s very nice to see you here. I really think you will see this is a much more rational “bunch” than @ THE OTHER. I hope you continue to visit.

Medic, in my post, I clearly wasn’t talking about PWC. I was talking about the entire country and about national politics for the GOP. I will leave monitoring PWC to you since you claim to know everything that happens.

Anyone who spends any time following this issue can see harassment of Latino citizens and other Latinos in legal status is increasing. If you want citations, I suggest news.google.com, the archives of various newspapers and broadcast outlets around the country, etc. etc. I can certainly get you started.This blog can too with the Richardson story.

Who are “Not just Nancy L, Ricky J”?

K-
Very funny as if you didn’t know.
Nancy Lyall and Ricardo “ricky” Juarez. Leaders form MSF/MWB. Nancy seems to be their regular spokesperson and Ricky gets himself out there too.

Dignidad,

“There are laws that are anti-illegal which offend Hispanics. I understand that there is a fear amoung Hispanics, but it is anti-illegal not anti-Hispanic. The pro illegal groups have done an excellent job of promoting fear and confusing the issue.”

It isn’t just the “pro illegal groups” that have been promoting that fear. A cursory reading of BVBL shows how posters believe that they can spot an illegal immigrant just by appearance and whether that person will make eye contact. There is that tendency to lump all Hispanics, whether they are citizens or here illegally, into one big group. Listen to all that blather “over there” about running them all out of the country. And that’s merely the local microcosm.

Ruby said on 25 Mar 2008 at 10:45 am:

I agree they will not be profiling, because they are under the microscope even more so than before. MWB is doing nothing but causing this fear in the legal citizens by lumping them all together with the illegal aliens. They are apples and oranges. Unfortunately they may not speak enough English to understand this. They get the information in Spanish only which has been twisted I am sure. The telephone game comes to mind in that regard.

TY for the welcome Ruby, it was a bit of a rocky start, but I think everyone realizes that I have had my shots so when I bite, they are safe

Ruby, I wasn’t being funny. I am really bad with names. Also, while I have been to a couple of MWB events, I am not “part” of MWB. My views on their group and this immigration policy are derived from observations, research, and attending meetings of various groups including BOCS meetings.

BTW, to my knowledge, there are not “pro-illegal immigration groups” in this county. At least, I haven’t heard of any. Who the heck LIKES illegal immigration? Do we want to fix it? Of course!

Leila said on 25 Mar 2008 at 11:02 am:

Please post where I have stated I know everything about PWC. I haven’t. See my post to Ruby in regards to the country as a whole and Latinos getting harassed.
_________________________________________

Censored bybvbl said on 25 Mar 2008 at 11:42 am

I have not seen anything about running the legal Hispanics out of the country over there. Please show me proof where this has happened and I will accept your statement as fact, until then, the only thing I saw over there was the fact that the illegals needed to be removed.

kgotthardt said on 25 Mar 2008 at 12:05 pm:

Then please explain MWB since they seem to want i8llegal aliens in the country, not just PWC.

k-
Sorry, for the comment, but I truly thought you might know. Well, then you’ve seen them both at BOS meetings and other local news channels too. Nancy Lyall had a debate of sorts with Greg L and John Stirrup on Channel 8. Pardon the confusion again.

Medic, did you not read the posts where the speakers state that they can “tell” when a person is here illegally? How many times have you heard the assumption that the day laborers at 7-11 are “illegals”? To those posters these Hispanic men are interchangeable or illegal until proven otherwise.

Censored bybvbl said on 25 Mar 2008 at 1:42 pm:

It is a numbers game with the illegals at the 7-11. Most likely they are illegal or they wouldn’t be there usually. If they are down on their luck and need work to get by, then so be it, but generally speaking, they are most likely illegal aliens. I personally can not spot an illegal alien or a legal citizen.

Leila, although you feel that you were very clear about what you doubted, I still don’t know which concept you doubt, so I’ll let it go. Perhaps I am naïve in some ways, but I do feel that there’s much more hype than reality in the rhetoric and media that increases the fears and anger among those Latinos who are legal. I have seen too much of the Spanish media to believe otherwise. While I don’t doubt that there has been some cases of harrassment, the mistaken assumption is that people will be racist, with no regard for the culture of tolerance that has dominated the past decades.

Censored, you are right, other groups do promote fear. That may be their intention and they don’t care about the individuals they frighten. On the other hand, a group that defends illegals does more harm than good for the individuals they claim to advocate for when they instill mainly fear. If I want to empower someone I do not fill them with fear and teach them only of their rights with no regard to their responsibilities.
I choose not to believe that the more offensive remarks posted on BVBL represent the majority viewpoint of those opposed to illegal immigration.

Medic,

I probably should get my shots also, since I have an animal name.

I think that much of the ill feeling comes from the fact that we cannot tell who is legal and who is not, we can only guess. Additionally, many hispanic families are blended. Throw in a few crasser remarks from people like cockroaches, invasion, infestation and …yea, it is real hard to differentiate between legal/illegal.

I’ll tell you Moon-howler,
If someone called my children cockroaches, or implied even half the vile things I have read on the other blog, I would feel pretty angry.

Dignidad,
The problem is that when someone does say something vile, rarely they are challenged, that is, nobody is “seen” challenging because most with opposing views have been “silenced”. I recall “Dolph” correcting monticup for calling children parasites. I’m sure there were other corrections, but mostly, people chime in with agreement. Here’s one for you, with no correction, just recently:

“Dave in PWC said on 20 Mar 2008 at 12:47 am:
How can you say that children of illegals will excel? It’s pretty sad when the parents can’t read the school holiday schedule and I see these parents parading their kids down the hill to wait on the bus during the first day of spring break this week. It’s been my experience that kids that excel are the ones that have parents that are educated and can take the time when they are preschoolers to teach them to write the alphabet and their name and address, in English I might add. You’re clueless if you think this generation of illegal anchor babies or just plain illegal kids will excel. Just my opinion as a product of two parents who were both teachers and watching my sisters and brothers kids who did and did not take the time in preschool years to have my niece and nephews learning the alphabet, colors, name etc. I have seen the difference.
Round them up, move them out!!!”

Which is it, you want to make sure the “illegals” and children of “illegals” can’t get in-state tuition or why bother passing legislation regarding in-state tution if they are too dumb to get into college.

Independent Thinker, opposing viewpoints have been silenced but that’s just one blog. Just as I can’t take the wall and assume all Hispanics feel that way, I can’t take BVBL and assume all those opposed to illegal immigration feel that way.

As far as Dave’s post, he introduced some valid points. He didn’t say they were dumb in this quote, that looks to be your take on his comments. Children with little parental involvement can do well in school, but statistics favor those who have parents who are involved. I do wish all parents were more invested in their children’s education. Hispanics have the obstacle of language to overcome, which I would think merits a little extra parental involvement. I think that they can excel and the parents should expect them to excel. I think we should expect all students to excel.

As far as paying in-state tuition, I don’t think anyone who is illegal should get in-state tuition. It is unfortunate. Maybe the pro-illegals should spend their energies on a scholarship fund rather than promoting racism.

Dignidad said on 26 Mar 2008 at 6:32 am:

The in-state tution is one of the entitlements I was speaking of on another thread. This is the issue I have, people coming here illegally expecting the entitlements of those here legally. I am sorry, but if you didn’t go through the process, you have no right to the same benefits of those who did.

Dingidad,
Well then, we shouldn’t have to worry about in-state tuition or the dream act will we?

Dave said “You’re clueless if you think this generation of illegal anchor babies or just plain illegal kids will excel.”

Hmmm, I guess this kid of undocumented parents getting into UVA was some bizarre abberation.

Of course, in a perfect world, children have parents that are involved in their kids education, but I can tell you, that more than language prevents parents from getting involved.

Medic, Here you go.

“I haven’t seen any media reports and I am sure we would see them if there had been any!!!”