Anti-Defamation League Chimes In
Help Save Manassas made it on the SPLC’s unflattering “nativist” list. But what about the Anti-Defamation League(ADL)? The ADL does not address Help Save Manassas directly but they do speak to the immigration issue in general.
Here is what they have to say -
The Anti-Defamation League (ADL), which previously has documented how extremist groups like the Ku Klux Klan and neo-Nazis have exploited the immigration issue to advance their own agenda, has become increasingly concerned about the virulent anti-immigrant and anti-Hispanic rhetoric employed by a handful of groups that have positioned themselves as legitimate, mainstream advocates against illegal immigration in America.
ADL’s new online report, Immigrants Targeted: Extremist Rhetoric Moves into the Mainstream documents the rhetoric employed by groups that routinely position themselves as legitimate, mainstream advocates against illegal immigration in America. The report cites several key tactics used by anti-immigrant groups, including:
- Describing immigrants as “third world invaders,” who come to America to destroy our heritage, “colonize” the country and attack our “way of life.” This charge is used against Hispanics, Asians and other people of color.
- Using terminology that describes immigrants as part of “hordes” that “swarm” over the border. This dehumanizing language has become common.
- Portraying immigrants as carriers of diseases like leprosy, tuberculosis, Chagas disease (a potentially fatal parasitic disease), dengue fever, polio, malaria.
- Depicting immigrants as criminals, murderers, rapists, terrorists, and a danger to children and families.
Does this sound familiar? If not let’s review:
For Sale
Free to a good home. Excellent Guard Dog.
Owner cannot afford to feed him anymore, as there are no more illegal alien thieves, murderers, or molesters left in the neighborhood for him to eat.
Most of them knew him as ‘Mierda Santa!’
Yeah, I wrote to them too. Therefore, we can safely assume I’m not anti-Semetic. : )
I’d agree that there is an organized effort to employ nation-wide the same tactics cited by the ADL. I routinely read a newspaper from the town in which I grew up. It has a large immigrant (mainly Hispanic) population that wasn’t present when I resided there. Within the last year or two there has been a pronounced increase in negativity about any immigration related article in the paper’s online forum. The buzzwords, talking points, fear tactics are exactly like those on BVBL or in the response section to WaPo/MJM articles or the forum for 9500Liberty. It’s highly unlikely that these phrases were made up by the individuals using them. They’re lifted some some website(s), group, talking head, etc. that is anti-immigration.
Great post Admin! Perfect timing to address a silly notion that WE are bordering on anti-semetic. I don’t think so, unless you are willing to accuse the ADL of that also.
KG, I also wrote and spoke to them and they appear to be fully aware of Prince William County and I can, with great confidence, report that I also am not an anit-semite!
If this blog is just “circle talk” and a means to preach to
the choir, then you seem to be doing well. A mirror image of
Greg and BVBL. They can hoot and toot in their corner and you
in yours. But, if you seek to influence a larger audience,
then you have made a wrong turn.
- Stop trying to snatch some other group’s historic
experience and claim it for Hispanics. You came to this
country of your own free will and may freely decide to leave it.
That was not the experience of Afro-Americans - brought here
in chains and kept here in chains.
- The comparison to Jews in Germany? Please, nobody is being
tortured and sent to death camps. People here illegally are
sent back to their HOME.
- The Hispanic experience is unique and should be treated as such.
Some lessons might be learned from the massive Italian immigration
of a 100 years ago or the earlier Irish one, but who has seen
a sign that said “No Hispanics Apply” at a job site? More like
nobody who isn’t bilingual need apply.
- Por favor.
Well, Big Dog, you obvioulsy aren’t in anyone’s choir : )
And we aren’t preaching just to the choir, either.
We’ve written to the ADL.
Big Dog,
I would say you may be missing the point. No one here is claiming that this is Nazi Germany OR that the hispanic experience likens to an impending holocaust. Many here HAVE posted that the rhetoric towards latino is a almost exactly like the hatred towards italians, irish, jews, and every other large immigrant group. “Poor Richard” posted an excellent news article from the early 1900 that was vicious towards Italians. I believe that in order to have a relevant discussion towards a viable solution, we have to have an honest discussion. Growing fear, hatred, and anger towards latinio’s is an integral part of that discussion. What these neighborhoods needed was for government to intercede, create a community coalition with zoning and neighborhood services to bridge the gap and do the really hard work of dialogue AND enforcemnt. Govt. didn’t do that , they let them selves be lead around by Greg and his every so eager helpers like IRLI, an arm of FAIR. Now, here were are, neighborhoods appear to be no better off. Forclosure rates are skyrocketing, and PWC has the highest forclosure rate of our sister counties, Loudon and Fairfax. So, now what are citizens to do, waste our money on an UNPROVEN immigration resolution. Where, I ask, WHERE, is the cost to benefit ratio analysis? From what I have seen, other counties, once they have enacted such strong measures, have had their economies suffer. Were we just too ignorant to bother to do the research prior to going down this path?
The county staff BRAGS that we spend the least per pupil. They call this “efficient”. Hmmmm, I see it as cheap! Our teachers are the lowest paid in comparison to Loudon and Fairfax, I would rather have 26 million dollars go to towards our education than this propoganda. Furthermore, our Parks and Opens Space Chapter is a joke! No money for long term investment, even though THOSE citizen surveys clearly demonstrated that people DID want more Parks and Open Space AND were willing to have some small tax increase dedicated to financing more green space.
Big Dog said on 20 Mar 2008 at 12:32 pm:
Good point. However, I have to disagree on one point. I do not see blacks in chains still. Quotas and political correctness has taken that away. Blacks have their own Miss USA pageant, TV network and churches that can freely worship. That is hardly being in chains IMHO.
For Pete’s sake there goes the neighborhood. What happened to winner of 40k post…?
I will post this here as it seems appropriate. Regardless of what you want to moan about:
Mr. L does not need to be compared to Hitler or anyone else to evoke negative impressions. He simply should be referred to as Letiecq as that now carries its own connotations. This “honor” was earned totally by him and is now what he will be remembered for. Any comparisions to David Dukes, KKK or anything else are simply redundant at this point and not necessary.
If expressing outrage at a public figure who has taken a very negative moral stand is name calling then there is a job for you at the ACLU.
independent thinker said on 20 Mar 2008 at 1:14 pm:
The foreclosures in PWC can not honestly be blamed on the resolution. Please!!!
This is a tough time for the entire nation. The housing bubble busted and now there are consequences for careless actions that have to be paid by both the lenders and the borrower’s dumb enough to get caught up in it. This has nothing to do with the resolution. This would have happened whether it was passed or not. Now, I agree that the local economy will suffer some but will rebound as people move in that pay their fair share and don’t take from the system. This will take a bit to turn it around, but it will happen. The school system even admitted it had a decrease of ESOL students. This is a savings right off the bat since less teachers should be needed for this resource being provided to some that were not paying one dime for it in the way of property taxes.
I personally have no quarrel with the police asking to see my proof of residency or citizenship because I have nothing to fear nor have I done anything wrong. The last thing we need is a bunch of apologists getting together with the warm and fuzzy police to say it is ok you are here even though there are many that are trying to enter legally. My ex had to go through the hoops to get here from the Philippines. I know first hand what it is like to jump through the hoops and pay the “fees” for this “service” and that “service”.
Juturna said on 20 Mar 2008 at 1:32 pm:
I have not said one negative thing about you, yet you start in on me. I was told anyone could post here. I guess it isn’t the case huh? I haven’t posted the 40k post here yet, so it isn’t fitting here.
Thought I’d get one step ahead this time.
Post away…
At least I am not hiding behind a different name so you know who you are talking to.
Not hiding…… just remember seeing you in action. Think you stirred up all kinds of race stuff over on THE OTHER, didn’t you? Intentionally or not?
Not intentionally. I just have certain feelings about things that are not politically correct so everyone jumps on my ass about it.
Strange I do not remember seeing that handle, so again, hiding.
Don’t assume I posted. THE OTHER makes me fear for my soul. Association and all….
I remember it now. Well, have a good time here on anti. Won’t bother you again and at least you know your stuff won’t be blocked.
Big Dog -
“- Stop trying to snatch some other group’s historic
experience and claim it for Hispanics. You came to this
country of your own free will and may freely decide to leave it.”
Ever hear of history repeating itself?
Do you think that someone just woke-up one day and decided to start killing millions of people? Imagine the outrage. No, what you do is to dehumanize the enemy, make them into something worthy of destruction. The rhetoric that we hear being espoused is an attempt to do just that. Then couple that with the talk of a ‘civil war’ by some and you’re creating a recipe for disaster.
From BVBL -
“/\/\3|)iç 64 (Winner of the BVBL 40k and 50k post award) said on 20 Mar 2008 at 12:01 pm:
Wow, I made a trip over to the other blog. Seems some have their panties in a twist over there. Lots of hate and contempt for this blog. On one thread it was about every other post bashing Greg and BVBL. Seems to me like a bunch of chickens clucking in the hen house and accomplishing about as much.
The main difference I see is the apologists have a better foot hold over there.
Anyway, I made a post so I will check on it occasionally to see when it gets removed”
[Note: Edited post. Quoted text attributable to bvbl.net website.]
Oh, I see now…. Okay Medic. Without knowing, I was right, you were bashing but just not in front of anyone. Leopards don’t change their spots.
Posts aren’t removed here welcome to the free world.
Admin
can we copy posts or part of post and place them here? Or do we have to edit them somehow?
/\/\3|)iç 64 - Welcome.
“The foreclosures in PWC can not honestly be blamed on the resolution. Please!!!”
Do you know what I find odd? That people want to take all the credit for things without accepting any of the blame. How is it that HSM wants to take credit for a decrease in ESL enrollment but not for some of the problem with the housing market?
Another interesting fact, Manassas City school system lost a greater percentage of ESL children than PWC. HSM, Stewart, Letiecq, etc… aren’t acknowledging this because it seemingly runs counter to the image they want to project.
Just put them in quotes and attribute it to BVBL that’s enough.
Someone beat me to it. Thanks.
Juturna, Why did you think you had to get a step ahead of me?
Ha ha, Admin, you beat me to it. GL, Stewart, and their band want to take credit for what they can not prove with data while not wanting to take the blame for anything.
“Strange I do not remember seeing that handle, so again, hiding.”
Many of the regulars here are blocked from posting on BVBL (by GL) so no surprise if you don’t recognize anyone’s handle from that blog.
Well put Admin and Censored. But remember, they do throw out numbers that no one can really pin down. From costs savings of hosiptal care for illegals to the numbers of folks deported from the ADC to the number of anchor babies born at PWC Hospital.
Then there are my favorite numbers - the ones from a website (darn if I can remember the name, safe america ??) where they took actual crimes and projected how many were committed by illegals based on projections of illegals in the US. That was rich.
Juturna said on 20 Mar 2008 at 2:15 pm:
I was making an observation from a thread I read when I first opened this blog. It was filled with mean spirited words and directed to Greg and BVBL. So, because I was honest in an observation, that is wrong? This is quickly becoming a laughing stock if that is the case.
_____________________________
Because HSM, IMHO, had NOTHING to do with the housing market. This market was sliding WAY before the resolution was even voted on. This downturn has been happening for over a year now. How can a group take credit for something they had no control over? Did HSM make the predatory lenders and dumb borrowers do this?
Medic - see Tonto’s post at 2:12. Answer your question?
Willing to wait and see how it goes.
Gurduloo said on 20 Mar 2008 at 3:19 pm
Unless they were changed when people migrated over here. I remember seeing a couple of people post their real names after they had established themselves under a different handle here. redawn comes to mind immediately.
Medic, do you challenge Greg when he says that the resolution is responsible for “illegals” leaving PWC (and Manassas) because the vacant houses are proof? BTW, I agree with your assessment that the subprime lending market is mainly responsible…as it is nationwide. I’d also venture to say the accompanying loss of jobs in the construction trades is responsible for people leaving.
Medic
GL has posted under “The Recovery Starts Now” 14 March that the number of foreclosures has stopped rising at the same time the Rule of Law (whatever that means) was implemented. The article continues on to point out that the long-awaited real estate recovery may be at hand.
I think that’s where some of the claims are coming from anyway.
Juturna said on 20 Mar 2008 at 3:20 pm:
Then why don’t you to draw up the numbers that can be pinned down so they can be brought to light?
/\/\3|)iç 64 -
Are you crediting HSM for the decrease in ESOL students? If so, why can’t you accept that the kids left homes in PWC? It’s odd to take credit for one but claim the other is unrelated. Also, the housing market in PWC does seem to be looking at double or triple digit losses over surrounding jurisdictions which deserves noting.
Medic - I don’t claim to know the numbers, I don’t think anyone does. That’s the point!
Juturna said on 20 Mar 2008 at 3:32 pm:
I remember seeing that thread. I also posted under it that I felt this wasn’t the case since we still have more ARMs to reset. This housing issue is not over yet, we still have a few more rows to hoe before we can call it properly cultivated.
One number I think I can cite accurately is that in the Real Estate cycle from bottom clockwise - you have rents, purchase, supply/oversupply, slump (picture a quadrant), PWC is in the bottom right, slump. However, according to the PWC Finance Director there is some action on increasing rents. Once rents begin to stabilze and increase, the burden of mortgage is possible and buying begins again. So although it may be a way off, there are signs of life.
Medic, I recall your comments being a more national in perspective. I think we pretty much agree on the causitive factors regarding this slump in PWC being pretty much the same elsewhere.
I read “The Recovery Starts Now” also and thought that Greg’s feel for a recovery was something out of LaLaLand. (Actually, Californians probably have a much stronger sense of reality about any recovery since their real estate market has been particularly hard hit, plus they pay higher gas prices.) Does Greg think that we’re going to see fewer foreclosures as stocks take a hit, gasoline prices rise, wheat, corn, and food prices in general rise. If he does, I’ve got a nice water view property in Prince William that I can sell him.
CB - Well that was the day that he was claiming victory for the resolution and trying to spin…. Think on more rational days, he realized it might actually be a national economic issue. This illegal situation and the ecomony have been referred to as the perfect storm. For some it might be hard to pick apart.
Censored bybvbl said on 20 Mar 2008 at 3:32 pm:
The resolution has made an impact on the illegal alien community. I do not think it is affecting the legals as much as people would like to let on. Some of the vacant houses are proof. I had a neighbor move out that had their screen door open on numerous occasions. The parking lot was full of different cars all the time. I have also noticed that since they moved out, there are more free visitor parking spaces closer to my town home.
______________________________________________
admin said on 20 Mar 2008 at 3:34 pm:
I can accept that some of the homes were left behind because of the resolution, but not all of them. If there were figures that showed how many were “owned” by illegals, then you could get a percentage. I do not believe that all of the houses left were from illegal aliens.
My biggest concern is that these homes will now be picked up by investors and the percent of owner occupied will decline. I have misgivings about high numbers of rentals in one area. I’ve asked folks over at the county if they track that number and they don’t. I think they should begin.
Censored bybvbl said on 20 Mar 2008 at 3:45 pm:
The 2008 ARMS haven’t even reset yet nor the first 1/2 of 2009’s. That should be the last ones and only a few at that. We are in the near bottom right now, but more downward slide should be expected. I am not a financial expert by any means, but I do have common sense and common sense tells me that we still have some rough water ahead of us and if we do not have our life rafts dry, we will not be able to take on as much water as we think we can (paying higher gas and food prices). I was a sailor and a medic so everything is usually related to those
Juturna said on 20 Mar 2008 at 3:55 pm:
I agree that this will happen as well. This can be good and bad. It is a good thing because property taxes will be paid, however, it can be bad if they are slum lords.
Medic, even if all the guys that moved out of the house near you were here illegally, did they tell you they were leaving because of the resolution or did they leave because jobs dried up?
Censored bybvbl said on 20 Mar 2008 at 4:00 pm:
That is impossible to pinpoint since both happened right close to the same time. I will tell you this, one lady at the store my finacee works at gave her notice that coincided with the resolution going into effect. There was question about her status, but nothing could be brought up.
________________________________________________
The resolution did help clean up the county. I have no quarrel with those who are here illegally getting the boot out. Yes it is going to cause higher prices for a while, but it will even out as people that pay their fair share move back in.
I am not against legal immigration, I am against amnesty. Those who have come here and do not assimilate, have no reason to be here IMHO.
Medic,
Was the woman lantino, the one who gave her notice that coincided with the illegal immigration resolution?
independent thinker said on 20 Mar 2008 at 4:21 pm:
Yes she was. She left without working her final 2 weeks.
/\/\3|)iç 64 said on 20 Mar 2008 at 3:32 pm:
Gurduloo said on 20 Mar 2008 at 3:19 pm
Unless they were changed when people migrated over here. I remember seeing a couple of people post their real names after they had established themselves under a different handle here. redawn comes to mind immediately.
I established myself as redawn but last night posted as Verta under the Oboma thread and the the thread that you are thinking of.
redawn,
You didn’t fool ME for one second.
I admire your willingness to come clean with your identity. I hope it doesn’t get stolen.-lol
Ruby,
Lol, I see your slippers have found there way here:)
Right, I established myself as redawn and did that last night, only to call MYSELF out and gave the reason why.Anyway, it was ridiculous and redawn is here to stay.
Medic,
I forgot to ask, what were the reasons for suspecting she was “illegal” ?
Who cares what people post under, I believe I addressed that over on BVBL, although, not sure if anyone else could read my post. We choose to be anonymous to blog, so what, everyone has their reasons and that does not diminish people’s points that they make here or anywhere else.
redawn said on 20 Mar 2008 at 4:32 pm:
hugs!!!
/\/\3|)iç 64 said on 20 Mar 2008 at 5:04 pm:
Hugs and Kisses! xoxox Welcome
independent thinker said on 20 Mar 2008 at 4:56 pm:
She kept putting off her documentation for employment. I am not sure she ever brought it in because the manager left for a new store. The new manager asked for the paperwork and the request fell through the cracks. That manager was fired, then the third one asked and she said she would bring it in. To my knowledge, she never did bring it in. My finacee is an assistant manager type so she has first hand knowledge of this.
redawn said on 20 Mar 2008 at 5:05 pm:
WHOO HOO!!! hugs AND kisses
Ty for the welcome redawn. It is appreciated with the xoxo’s
If the rabid dogs all come over here, perhaps they will be more polite, as there is a different level of discourse here. Less tsstosterone, perhaps.
Firedancer said on 20 Mar 2008 at 5:24 pm:
Why do you say that? Why do they have to be rabid dogs? Poor form on your part. You want to claim this blog is better, yet you stoop to name calling? The only way this blog will rise above any other is to show that it doesn’t matter where you come from, you are welcome to post. No names, no classification of their posts or such. Rise above that and it will gain popularity on its own, but stoop to name calling and it will quickly loose any credibility you may gain IMHO. Testosterone has nothing to do with it.
A better post may have looked like this:
If posters from another blog come to this one, maybe there will be better conversation with them.
/\/\3|)iç 64,
Your welcome and everyone here does not agree with everything or everyone.
But it is nice to hear opposing view points to have a great conversation and the bonus is one might learn something from it.
I agree there does not need to be any name calling, that is what turned some people off and spent more time auguring about that then the issues that could be solved.
redawn said on 20 Mar 2008 at 5:42 pm:
Exactly my point with the post made. If you have some decorum in the beginning and let people know you do not tolerate that here, people will respect it. If they do not, then you can ban them for not being polite in their views. It is really simple.
Who cares whose blog is “better”? How childish.
You don’t “see black in chains anymore”?
Time to write the NAACP. Obviously more generalized hate going on at BVBL. /\/\3|)iç 64 must be one of the KKK sympathizers.
XXXOXOXOXOXOXOXO
kgotthardt,
Childish is your “name calling” even after it was just addressed. As I recall you weren’t too pleased when you where called an apologist, and other things you were. Yet, here you….doing the same thing. Quite disappointing. I thought it was supposed to have a different tone here. Looks like you have some hate in your heart too. Think about it!!
Welcome Ruby,
I think that it is important that this blog be different. And by different I do meant more civil and more open. Medic assumed his comments would not be posted. Why? Because as much as Greg likes to pretend his blog is about everyone opinion and that he doesn’t endorse people’s comments, by the very fact that he chooses to omit opposing views, conversely he then must be saying he agrees with what he does allow to be posted, no matter how vile and offensive. Why is it primarily opposing views that he deems unworthy of debate?
Medic,
This response is from another post you commented on.
Medic said: * Portraying immigrants as carriers of diseases like leprosy, tuberculosis, Chagas disease (a potentially fatal parasitic disease), dengue fever, polio, malaria.
“These folks are from third world countries which do not have the same medical immunizations that we have. Either they can not afford it or the population can not afford it. This boils down to more PC crap to make people here in the US illegally seem like they should be allowed to stay here.”
Let me point out to you, from BVBL on Oct. 24th, the comments surrounding the MRSA outbreak on a blog whose primary focus is illegal immigration:
“5. jfk1 said on 24 Oct 2007 at 9:38 am:
All Saints School in Manassas also had a case. The parents were notified on Monday, but this has not made the media either. The school is taking steps, but the classrooms are still being used at night for ESL classes. The principal has not been clear about whether the classrooms actually get cleaned before or after the “extracurricular” uses of the rooms at night.”
“6. monticup said on 24 Oct 2007 at 10:23 am:
Michael Savage, a PhD in epidiology from Berkeley, believes this is related to illegal immigration from Mexico and Central America. It is something to consider.”
“9. Anonymous said on 24 Oct 2007 at 11:21 am:
jfk1 said 24 Oct 2007 at 9:38 am:
Every classroom in the school used to be cleaned (vacuumed and in some classrooms, wet mopped daily. That was the norm 10 years or so ago but they will have to address whether or not that is being done today. Classrooms are utilized after hours by other activities/groups. Maybe that ought to be put on hold until this outbreak runs it’s course?”
“11. AWCheney said on 24 Oct 2007 at 12:42 pm:
“The school is taking steps, but the classrooms are still being used at night for ESL classes. The principal has not been clear about whether the classrooms actually get cleaned before or after the “extracurricular” uses of the rooms at night.”
This begs the question…do the other schools where the infection has occurred also have ESL classes at night and are they cleaned before those classes rather than after? Before someone jumps in here and calls me racist, I believe it’s a valid question, particularly if that might be the only thing that the schools in question have in common.”
“12. Turn PW Blue said on 24 Oct 2007 at 1:33 pm:
Monticup:
Michael Savage (born Michael Alan Weiner) does not have a PhD in epidimiology. His PhD is in nutritional ethnomedicine. Under his given name, he has written a number of books on herbal medicine and homeopathic remedies (including one where he advocates the use of marijuana for medicinal purposes). So please, stop using him as a sound source for the epidimiology of MRSA.
Based on more sound science (from the CDC and NIH), the strain of MRSA we’re seeing now is a mutation known as USA-300. It’s roots are in MRSA variants found in health care facilities, not in the illegal alien population. The more likely source of this infection is someone who has recently spent time in a hospital or health care facility.”
“22. Anon said on 24 Oct 2007 at 8:50 pm:
Illegal aliens that I have seen have very poor hygiene habits, and antibiotics are available without a prescription in Mexico and central America which would exacerbate the problem. Where ever it is coming from, something needs to be done and soon.”
Medic, I have so much dialogue on BVBL that demonstrates each and every one of those examples that ADL has posted. I chose this one because the ignorance demonstrated here was so troublesome. Even AFTER Turn PW Blue explained the origins of MRSA, there were still postings that clearly did not understand the epidemiology of MRSA.
Ruby
Name calling and hatred are preeetttyyy far apart on the ethical scale. Name calling is juvenile, we all do it, hatred is violent.
Try to keep in mind that some people were treated very badly on BVBL. Threatened, blocked and called all sorts of horrible names, there were some from BVBL that came HERE and attempted the same tactics threatening a few and recommending that they have their legal retainers paid up. IP tracking, outting, and such. This was done to folks not always because they were nasty but most of the time because they disagreed with comments on the blog.
So to some, seeing a few familiar ‘faces’ may be like a recurring nightmare. Let’s all just relax and see how it goes.
I will say that the reason I am on this blog is it is not run based on fear. No fear to speak, no fear that “YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED”, and no fear that you need an attorney if you disagree with the high command.
I am not going to debate which is better or less or whatever. This one is different. That’s all.
And by the way if there is a person in our community who I feel is doing damage to this community and who has been identified as part of a group of 22 out of 305,000,000 million as a negative influence, by golly I am going to point it out. Over and over again. IT did a great job above. So, I would suggest that we just move on and see what happens.
In the meantime, we all agree that the real estate market sucks and there is not a single cause. Although, I did see where CNN Money is blaming congress on being slow to act on several recovery plans. Some did not appear to be out and out bailouts, but it is reminicent of Chrystler.
Juturna,
Now, now. Yes, they start out far apart, but over time name calling does become and seem hateful to me at least.
Go read the message I left for you on Manassas Next thread for something on a lighter note, please.
Independent Thinker,
First of all, thanks for the welcome. I have posted a couple of other times. I agree with your comments.
I think Medic may have seen the similarities in the websites and figured the same would go on here.
As far as the opposing comments go…..
Opposing comments are needed for good productive debate. They should be on THE OTHER. However, it is HIS blog and he can do what he wants. I personally do not agree with removing posts that differ from HIS opinion. I’ve had my posts taken down as well. This pissed me of royally and left me not wanting to even read some of that crap. I can’t help but think the fact that I am a WOman had everthing in the world to do with it. I can see the BIG PICTURE and welcome all opinions even those from and that of which I disagree. I don’t care if he doesn’t want to save my pearls of wisdom.
Do you think even his wife would want a “pearl necklace” from him?
I just could resist.
If I’m not mistaken we are of the same era. Did you grow up in NoVA?
I have more. I think this is enough for now.
Ruby -
Read it and glad to hear it.
Yes, it’s his blog, but you do not have a blog and threaten people with outting or IP tracking simply because you disagree with them. You will not find the same level of out of control maniacal anger here. Bitchin’ yes.
No one likes a bully. The PWCPS have a No tolerance policy for bullies. It’s ashame the same is not true of the Pr. Wm. Co. residents.
Independent Thinker-
Sorry, I meant to say.. I just could not resist.
Agreed. No one likes a bully.
Ruby,
I get it
I will post more later when little ones are asleep!
Ruby,
Yes, I group in in NOVA, an uncommon find in this area. Do you remember the book “everything I need to know I learned in Kindergarden” ?
You see it in your children’s play, they want to make everyone play by THEIR rules, but soon enough, no one wants to play with them anymore, it isn’t any fun. I clearly see these similarities playing out with another blog.
# /\/\3|)iç 64 said on 20 Mar 2008 at 5:32 pm:
Why do you say that? Why do they have to be rabid dogs? Poor form on your part. You want to claim this blog is better, yet you stoop to name calling? The only way this blog will rise above any other is to show that it doesn’t matter where you come from, you are welcome to post. No names, no classification of their posts or such. Rise above that and it will gain popularity on its own, but stoop to name calling and it will quickly loose any credibility you may gain IMHO. Testosterone has nothing to do with it.
A better post may have looked like this:
If posters from another blog come to this one, maybe there will be better conversation with them.
Response:
Of course you are right, Medic, and your suggested post is actually more my style. I agree with you that name-calling and poor form diminishes credibility. Now please tell that to your friends over there. I will enjoy reading and having civil exchanges with you here, since it was never possible there. Thanks.
Well, everyone has kissed, greeted, snarled….and I guess I am the only one who hasn’t kissed Medic. Come on guys….do I really have to kiss????
Medic, I really don’t think you are a bad guy, I just think that you have been under an evil influence. Perhaps even drunk the kool aid of bvbl. You have to understand though….your appearance caused like a bad flash back to some of the folks on here. I believe in a reset button of life.
How it pretty much works around here …spirited debate if fine. We certainly don’t all agree here. Not even close. If someone starts something up, well we chickens just peck their eyes out. Just kidding. We stop answering.
Medic,
You might actually like it here better than over on THE OTHER. You never know. Firedancer brought up an important issue ‘I will enjoy reading and having civil exchanges with you here, since it was never possible there.’
It truly was impossible to have civil exchanges. We all might have much more in common that we realized because we were never allowed to express it.
I am not real sure that you are aware that many people were actually banished and threatened. They were.
Ruby, I don’t think saying someone is a KKK sympathizer when the KKK supported GL and his gang is so far off the mark. The KKK denies there is racism and justifies it. That’s what Medic’s statements communicate as well.
To say I am an “illegal immigration apologist” IS far off the mark. I don’t believe in illegal immigration. However, I don’t believe, either, that we are doing the right thing about it. We can argue about what the right thing MIGHT be, but in doing so, there’s no way we should be denying people the right to interpret their own experiences.
I have never denied that it must be difficult to live next to an overcrowded house, for example, one that is unsafe. But the solution to that problem is not to make cultural generalizations, threats, racial slurs or castigations. The solution is to make sure the community is abiding by rules of safety-not objective rules based on prejudice. If that were the right thing to do, I might threaten to sue GL for actually THREATENING me with more than just “I’m going to block you.” I might say, “Anyone who acts like GL should be sent to Siberia.” But I’m not saying that, and I don’t believe that.
I DO believe people like him shouldn’t be running a political and community organization. I DO believe we have openly racist, selfish and irresponsible people on the BOCS. I do NOT believe that organizations taking their rhetoric and policy from hate groups should be instituting their bigotry as law which is what is happening in this county.
Hate? No. Impatience and anger? Certainly. Do I want to mark Medic with scarlet letters, allow a community to throw bottles at him, have him deported and have his family taken from him? Certainly not. THAT is hateful. Do you see the difference?
“The solution is to make sure the community is abiding by rules of safety-not objective rules based on prejudice.”
I meant “subjective,” not “objective.”
KG-
I see the difference. I may have jumped the gun with my comments and I appologize for that.
Honestly, both of the blogs are too extreme for me. However, that won’t stop me from voicing my opinion.I openly admit the tone is far more inviting and accepting of others.
I am sick and tired of all the “mud slinging”. We must move forward and in a positive manner. There’s been ENOUGH negativity for my blood.
I am not hear to attack, name call, etc. I come to this blog to learn as I do the other.
Greg certainly sounds like a KKK sympathizer to me. I remember reading an article where he complained about the KKK coming around and distributing their fliers. He wasn’t upset about their presence. His complaint was that after all the work he and HSM had done, it was unfair for the KKK to come in and claim credit. In other words, it’s almost like he was saying that the KKK should have been helping from the very beginning.
In his youtube interview on 9500liberty he states that latinos need to return to their countries of origin to contribute to their cultures there since they weren’t contributing to the culture here. This is the same stuff the KKK says.
Ruby,
Can you please share exactly what is so extreme in the comments here. I know some of the “headliners” are avante guarde, but it they do generate some indepth discussion. Extreme to me would be this blog advocating open borders, complete amnesty as opposed to earned citizenship, etc. Could you just clarfiy what is so extreme so I can better understand your point. My hope here is reach the middle ground, the compromise that I believe most citizens want in order to deal with the community issues that appear to be the real boiling point for many communities.
IT,
Let me try to clarify. I think I have a more moderate approach then the other, and have a more extreme the some here. I’ve not seen extreme comments really. Trust me, there is NO one that would like to see this issue met in the middle more than I. Headlines need to get the readers attention, no problem there. I really have no problem with anything.
Reasonable debate has a far better chance here. I have just made my points so many times. I am sick of trying to drive some of points home. I’m sorry, I know this may seen lame. It is what it is.
Community Issues are at the TOP of my list of concerns. I’m pretty busy today. I hope this helps a little for now.
Moon-howler said on 21 Mar 2008 at 12:34 am:
“How it pretty much works around here …spirited debate if fine. We certainly don’t all agree here. Not even close. If someone starts something up, well we chickens just peck their eyes out”……
Yeah, cat fight!
Ruby will have to agree to disagree. Nothing can compete with the venom from THE OTHER - particularly when they followed people here and continued. Honestly, think you might have missed that bit of fun.
No one is being asked to defend their participation on THE OTHER therefore there is no need to compare or attempt to paint both with the same brush.
Ruby,
Community issues are also at the top of my concerns, and I have been involved in building community throughout my entire career. The language and tactics employed by the prominent posters on bvbl do irreparable harm to a healthy community.
Although I don’t have the time to be a prolific poster here, I thoroughly enjoy the give and take by people who are trying to understand all sides and reach a consensus.
I think we’re all interested in community issues or we wouldn’t be so outspoken about the black eye given our community by GL’s BVBL and the tack used by HSM. By using Neighborhood Services, Neighborhood Watch, volunteering to teach English, encouraging membership in our local community associations, reaching out to individuals who live near us, etc. we could have helped our communities more than shouting,”You’re illegal. Get out! And, BTW, don’t you dare put your granny on the Bluebird bus!!!”
My neighborhood doesn’t have too many minorites - though more than it did ten years ago- and the problems are/were created by those of the good old caucasian persuasion. So telling Hispanics to leave does absolutely nothing to solve my neighborhood’s problems. And I’ll bet the same is true in most of the area. I think overcrowded houses are related to the lack of affordable housing in the DC area. It’s funny how everyone yells NIMBY when government proposes group homes or low income housing near them, but they end up with just as many overcrowded houses when the local economy settles the problem for them.
Censored,
Excellent points. What is better, affordable housing or crowed housing?
mpolo79 said on 21 Mar 2008 at 10:39 am:
“Greg certainly sounds like a KKK sympathizer to me. I remember reading an article where he complained about the KKK coming around and distributing their fliers. He wasn’t upset about their presence. His complaint was that after all the work he and HSM had done, it was unfair for the KKK to come in and claim credit. In other words, it’s almost like he was saying that the KKK should have been helping from the very beginning.
In his youtube interview on 9500liberty he states that latinos need to return to their countries of origin to contribute to their cultures there since they weren’t contributing to the culture here. This is the same stuff the KKK says.”
Mpolo,
Although I believe Greg’s blog promotes hate and division and that he allows posters to flame the fire of mistruth and ignorance, he did openly condemn the KKK.
as quoted from D.C. Examiner:
“If Mexicans Without Borders protests [the KKK], we would be right alongside,” said Greg Letiecq, president of the leading local anti-illegal immigration organization Help Save Manassas “They don’t have anything to offer. … It’s not helping at all.”
Um, whenever there is indisputable evidence that GL foments the worst in humanity, he retaliates with an overly long, verbose, endless, over-the-top retaliation that leads one to say, “Huh? Me thinks he doth protest too much”. OF COURSE his philosophy is right in line with the KKK! The only reason he protested so much at that time was because it was bad public relations. He and his ilk, like the lovely young woman in that video today, come from the same family of folk who thought they were saving the country through the Klan.
Question, how is their stand any different from that of the Klan on immigration, since there is no outreach or support for immigrants that I see on the part of HSM? I see only a hysterical GET OUT YOU ILLEGALS!
censored,
I’m not trying to give you a hard time, but your statement.
So telling Hispanics to leave does absolutely nothing to solve my neighborhood’s problems.
Your statement seems a little concerning to me. It sure sounds you are only concerned for YOUR neighborhood. Well, I can tell my neighborhood has changed drastically over the last decade. I could should show you 40 years worth of pictures of my neighborhood. Trust me it had NEVER looked run down, and chickens residing in the backyards, folks weren’t living in sheds or tents, there were not 15 cars per household, there were not 15-25 men living in a 3-5 bedroonm houses, vehicles getting “hit and run” in the middle of the night and various other hours of the day, oh yes let me not forget we did NOT have men wipping out and wizzing in the front yards. Maybe, you would like to live like that with daughters. Rest assured and can NOT and should NOT have live and look at that kind of crap on a daily basis. like it has become over the last decade. I am concerned for ALL of OUR neighborhoods and that includes yours too. I would like to think that all good citizens of the county would care about the county as a whole and not just their little corner of the world. It has has been quite burdensome on those of us who are trying make a change for the POSITIVE. My neighborhood looks a hell of lot better this year than it did this time last year or up until fall of 2007.
Zoning needs to be overhauled and have a work schedule of 7days a week, and not just M-F, traditional business hours. They are about our only hope at this time, and they must step up to the plate, and do a better more consistant job.
I will say there has been improvement
Does anyone remember seeing all the push cart vendors that filled some nieghborhoods around this time last year? There would even be 3 vendors on a block. It took citizens getting involved and questioning why there were so many and to start asking if they had a permit to do so.It was found out that a lot of them did not.It took people getting involved and learning the zoning codes and how to report violations.
Ruby, I’ve told you before that my present neighborhood (as well as a past neighborhood) has had many of the same problems and that those problems were not caused by Hispanics. Immigration doesn’t have to become the defining reason for a neighborhood’s decline. Neighborhoods which were the most affordable became the primary residence of poorer people when the subprime mortgage fiasco made loans possible for those who otherwise wouldn’t have qualified for homeownership. Older, larger neighborhoods filled with modest-sized tract housing are often prime candidates for an assortment of problems. I believe I posted info about a pilot program in Fairfax County that showed how neighbors were addressing common problems.
Your neighborhood is now taking the steps necessary to solve some of your community’s problems and that will involve getting ALL or most of the neighbors involved regardless of their ethnicity. IMO, that should have been the first step instead of the brouhaha that HSM foisted off on the rest of us. If you think I’m being selfish because I’m thinking primarily of my neighborhood, I’ll agree and disagree. I agree that I think of my neighborhood …because it’s where I have the most chance to make an impact, to meet people who may or may not want to see similar changes in our community, and it’s a way to make friends that one may know and keep for a long time. I’ve made the effort to be involved in my neighborhood for more than 25 years…serving on committees, being an officer in the local association, picking up litter, helping in neighborhood improvement projects. In fact, we worked on one of the neighborhood projects near your neighborhood.
What I want to see is your neighbors getting as involved in your neighborhood as you are…all your neighbors Hispanics included. You’re asking me to pay higher taxes that I would have prefered to go to roads, schools, libraries, parks (with no guarantee of any monetary benefit) because your neighbors waited too long to get involved in their neighborhood and griped about immigrants rather than meeting the neighbors and making them feel a part of the community. I think police can help with the peeing in public problems and the untagged cars. Neighborhood Services may be able to help with overcrowding (there are some legal issues there to be careful of). I don’t think this divisive immigration issue had to pit the citizens of this county against each other and I place a large part of the blame on GL and HSM. Too many people from your neighborhood by their statements on BVBL, at Citizen’s Time, and in the newspaper made our whole community look crummy in the area’s and nation’s eyes. It didn’t have to be handled in the manner that it was and I’d like to see some apologies made by the one most responsible…though that will never happen, I suppose.
I was picking up litter, calling zoning, etc. long before HSM or anyone else brought it to the forefront. I didn’t just start caring. I was brought up to care, be involved, and help others. I have done this my entire life.
I don’t believe I said where I live. You may a case of mistaken identity going on here.
Censored, thank you so much for your excellent description of how to BUILD community while solving problems, as opposed to tearing it apart. I too have practiced this preaching for the 20+ years I have lived here.
Censored,
I think it was a good despcription too.
I grew up here in Manassas and left the flock, lol to Centreville-just seperated by a border(county line) by a half mile and I have seen how just THAT made a difference- The acceptance.( I still see this sh@t go on today) not personally in I have no problem making friends,just the perception being from somewhere that has been looked down upon.BUT that you could see the hesitance, the down shift of the eyes or your from Manassas?( sound familiar, else where?)
My family is from this area, Fairfax natives and moved to Manassas,years ago.
There is no differnce today,than there was years ago. People are moving to Gainesville, Culppeper, etc….to get out of the congestion and have peace of mind.(elbow room)
Funny, how I see history repeating itself in that light and how I see new comers to this area, get all charged up to make changes and then LEAVE. Ehat about the people who choose and/or have roots that want to stay? What have they left us with?
I know some longtime residents that have resentment for that very fact.
Come in and cause a stir with intentions to leave or could give 2 sh2ts less if things don’t work out there way.
All the while, we that have defended this area and have been use to the fact that we are looked down upon, most of us have been so welcoming and that has also caused some of us to get taken advantage of.
and yes, I see all of my grammar mistakes as it is late and trying to entertain people ( funny enough, that grew up over here) We are having a laugh that I am typing with my accent. Who cares, the point is what matters. My BRAIN works faster than my fingers.
Ms.Gab/Chatter box
as long as one can laugh at themselves
Redawn, I’ve lived in a variety of areas. I’m a New Yorker who grew up in the South and made a brief home outside a large midwestern city along the way. I’ve lived in Fairfax City as well as several locations in Fairfax Couthy. There are oldtimers and newcomers in all those places and it’s much as you say…just like here in Manassas.
kgotthardt said on 20 Mar 2008 at 5:49 pm:
I thought this blog was going to rise above the name calling. I guess not. I am not a KKK sympathizer. Just because I see things a certain way, does not mean it is wrong. Just because you don’t see them my way, doesn’t make them wrong either.
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Ruby,
Thank you!! I am a little tired of the rhetoric on BVBL since it seems to have gone a certain way IMHO. I will post when I feel I need to post. I am looking for a new home so to speak and was hoping I had found one here, but I see if this continues, it will be no different than BVBL.
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Moon-howler said on 21 Mar 2008 at 12:34 am:
No hugs and kisses if your a guy, well a GUY hug is ok
I was not aware that people had been threatened or banished. It is freedom of speech and while I agree that moderation is needed when running a blog, removing the spam posts and such, it should not be removing people that comment on the blog where a comment is allowed one time and another is removed.
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kgotthardt said on 21 Mar 2008 at 7:17 am:
What I said had nothing to do with racism. I stated the truth. Blacks have their own Miss America pageant, Television station (BET) and quotas to allow them into school. To me, IMHO, are not chains. Can we have a white Miss USA pageant only? No we can not. Blacks participate in that one as well. How is it not racists for thier to be a black miss usa pageant and not have a kroea miss usa pageant or a japanese miss usa pageant where the only contestants are those from those specific groups?
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Censored bybvbl,
I see your point but once again Manassas has gained national attention and IMO from newcomers that rode the vote for political gain, not for the people. Are we going to be damaged, or a laughing stock once again?
Look at what is going on at the BOCS right now in trying to establish a tax rate, budget,etc.
I think about this video, Where someone asked Corey, about the urgency of voting on the resolution before Nov. and his response was something along the lines of you tend to loose momentum. That struck me as odd especially knowing NOW, that he intends to run for another office.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ArD3JuZDEc
note time: 1:16
IT really did seem to happen fast. Why not make sure you have the budget and financial situation planned out first. I know don’t handle my personal finances on quick decisions with out thinking it thru.
I am not sure if it is this video or from what I read in newspapers about how he wish he had known how the housing market was going to take a turn. I know Mr. Jenkins had talked about it. When I have time, I will find the links, as I could be wrong and don’t want to misquote /represent anyone.
Medic,
A lady howler, I assure you.
Yes, people were banished for content, similar to the content you see here. I consider banishment when one is not allowed to post.
I think you make a good point about at least we know who you are. You also understand why people are using alternative psuedonyms here. This blog is carefully inspected and monitored by THE OTHER.
Medic, you’re right…the BOCS should have put the same foresight into budget considerations as all of us as individuals have to do. And, yes, it’s pretty obvious that the citizens have paid and will probably pay more for Corey Stewart’s ambition.
Medic,
Why are you so fixated on black beauty pagents, etc. How many black miss america’s have there been?
“By the 1960s there still had not been a black contestant. Following the advances of the civil rights movement, black Americans set up their own contest in 1968. Black communities had sponsored segregated black beauty contests for years, dating farther back than the Miss America contest. However, the 1968 Miss Black America Contest, held in Atlantic City on the same day as the Miss America Pageant, was organized as a direct protest of the pageant. On that same day, feminists staged a boardwalk demonstration protesting the pageant. The 1968 Miss America Pageant was confronted with its shortcomings on several fronts.
It was not until 1984 that Vanessa Williams of New York was crowned as the first black Miss America. Many likened her accomplishment to that of Jackie Robinson breaking the color line in baseball. Controversy followed Williams as, for the first time, Miss America recieved death threats and hate mail.”
Medic
You will hardly see the same thing here on anti. Just remember what was censored for you to see over there!!! Hardly the lively discussion we once thought it all was. You can take a bit o name callin’, I know you can.
Glad you are here. And thanks for keeping your suspicions to yourself.
I don’t think you are a racist, I really don’t. I think you take the opportunity to be anonymous.
Tuesday should an interesting day at the BOCS
http://goodbyefaisal.com/republican-allies/kopko-and-stewart/bocs-meets-tuesday-to-struggle-with-stewarts-51-000-000-00-deficit/
Medic is tired of the retoric on bvbl?? Is this really the same person? Will patriot be next???
correction: rhetoric.
The Patriot would never find his way over. He would not wan’t to get “beat up” on by a bunch of girls. hahahaha
Ruby,
Maybe he is suppressing his inner fantasy, everyone likes a good cat fight?…ONLY KIDDING!!!!!-all in fun
couldn’t resist…meow 
And as far as Nedic,
I sent you up “xoxoxoxoxo” not “kkk”, I know as YOU, the difference
You are welcome over here, make it your home, click your heels 3 times 
* /\/\3|)iç 64 ( nedic-typo)
I am still smiling over the thought of the Patriot over here. It might offend his sensibilities.
He definitely knows he would get his eyes pecked out if he started up his usual crap.
Please take a look at this post as it applies to the thread: http://www.antibvbl.net/index.php/2008/03/16/blogger-thwarts-a-civil-war-for-now/
I believe, just as Obama’ speech ( not that I am voting for him) are TRYING to communicate the best a person can and that in it self has become a threat!
When brought to attention, you may find an apology!
Something to CONSIDER before throwing someone under the bus.
Ari Stotle said on 23 Mar 2008 at 7:29 pm:
Last week, a woman spoke at Citizen’s Time during the BofCS meeting to voice her concerns about racism in PWC. She mentioned the illegal alien resolution and BVBL, then she read allowed to the Board a posting from Ari Stotle who she claimed was a racist.
She was visibly shaken and my spouse was disturbed by her accusations. First, I want to send my sincere apologies to her and say that in law enforcement and/or self defense training, you’re taught to make eye contact with those in your surroundings. It can aid in warding off a potential threat or potentially becoming a victim. Unlike bear hunting, in which you are trained to NOT make eye contact with the animal, with humans it is precisely the opposite.
Her accusation was troubling because it was directed at me and not the 12 to 20 million criminals who have taken it upon themselves to violate our laws. As McCain states, “we are all Gods children” but laws are laws. It is my right as a U.S. Citizen to practice self defense.
In fact, my great grandparents, aunts, uncles and cousins were gased to death in Aushwitz. My grandfather was a survivor, he arrived in this country alone, with a gold coin sewn into the lining of his jacket pocket but he did it legally through Ellis Island, he learned the language, worked hard, kept his head down, minded his own business and assimulated to American culture. He married and had only one child, my mother. He died before I was born but he wrote a book about his life. I learned that during the depression he used his own money to operate a soup kitchen to help those less priviledged.
As a result, I don’t have much family, but I love this country and am very grateful for life that I have here and coincidently, my spouse is of German decent so believe me Ma’am I am far from being a racist or bigot but I am sorry if I offended you.
Forgot to say that was from BVBL here is the link:
http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/03/23/the-illegals-walk-away/
By the way, I posted 2 comments prior to this and are not showing up.